smelting wheel weights for 1st time

[twally]

Today I smelted my first pot of WW and it was very simple, but i'm not sure if I did the fluxing and skimming properly. is there a wrong way to do it?

This was my procedure, I used a heavy aluminium pot I got for $2.oo @ garage sale, I put the pot on a gas burner with the ww in it, when they melted I scooped the clips off the top and also some other junk, when it was pretty clear I droped in a piece of bees wax the size of a nickle, the pot flamed up and then I stired it a bit and then skimmed the skum off the top.

The first 12lb. batch seemed to clean right up, but the 2nd. batch kept turning gold with a purple tint on it and as soon as I skimmed the skum it went right back to the gold and purple color.

Can anyone please comment on my procedure and give me any advise that may help in the future. I also used a muffin pan to form the ingots they weighed right at 2lbs. each.

Thank You
Todd W.

[high standard 40]

In my experience, the color changes indicate too high a temp. Also, try stirring with a wodden dowel or similar piece of dry wood. Make sure it's fully dried. It helps flux the metal. Also, the aluminum pot is not a good idea.

[Gunslinger]

+1 on what High Standard said.

The important thing is to keep stirring and scraping the buttom and the sides of the pot, even after fluxing. Try it and you'll see the impurities will keep resurfacing.

Throw away that aluminum pot before it melts away and lead comes splashing all over your feet. Use cast iron instead.

[twally]

Can anyone tell me how much wax to put in a batch, is there a ratio or anything ?
also do I need a thermometer ?

[Ole]

Can anyone tell me how much wax to put in a batch, is there a ratio or anything ?
also do I need a thermometer ?

I put a piece about 1/2 the size of a sugar cube in the molten metal.

Usually 3x separate times for a 25-30lb pool of metal.

[Ole]

You need a thermometer if you don't have anything else to judge what your temperatures are.

I'd say you could get away without it if you were making small batches and didn't have a big burner.

[high standard 40]

Cut the wax in half and use the wood dowel to stir. Use the method suggested above being sure to scrape the sides & bottom well. A thermometer would help.
Try to keep the temp under 700.

[jnovotny]

A thermometer would be a good idea. And as for the amount of flux that's up to the indivdual. What works for me may not for you. So experiment. You really can't do too much. You don't want the stuff you are skimming to be metal. Just the burnt stuff left by the flux. Look around on the threads, lots of info with pics. Someone may even be able to point you in the right direction. Buy the way welcome to the board.

[WildmanJack]

A thermometer will or should I say 'could" save you a lot of problems in the futurre. Lead melts at 600-650... The dreaded ZINC melts around 750 or so. Do a search on high temp thermometers and get one. Mine was like $35.00 and it goes to 1000 degrees. Always use it and the dreaded Zinc monster probably won't bother you...
Good Luck,
jack

[JIMinPHX]

The gold color is probably from tin. The purple color is probably from the lead. You were probably running a little on the hot side.

[twally]

In my experience, the color changes indicate too high a temp. Also, try stirring with a wodden dowel or similar piece of dry wood. Make sure it's fully dried. It helps flux the metal. Also, the aluminum pot is not a good idea.

Thank You for this info I will get an cast iron pot. Is there a particular type of flux that works best?what are my choices.

And then ,after you stir with a dowel rod , what works best to skim the stuff off the top, wooden spoon or metal serving spoon?

Thank you all again for your help, I,m just trying to get off to a good start, so sorry for all the silly questions but I just don't know, and I don't want to get in trouble with this.

Thank you Todd

[armyrat1970]

Thank You for this info I will get an cast iron pot. Is there a particular type of flux that works best?what are my choices.

And then ,after you stir with a dowel rod , what works best to skim the stuff off the top, wooden spoon or metal serving spoon?

Thank you all again for your help, I,m just trying to get off to a good start, so sorry for all the silly questions but I just don't know, and I don't want to get in trouble with this.

Thank you Todd

I am quite new to smelting wheel weights also. For skimming the stuff off the top I am going to try a french fry skimmer. It has a bunch of tiny holes in it so any lead tin or antimony I may scoop up will go back into the melt. The reason being the antimony contained in the wheel weights may also seperate some from the lead. You don't want to remove this as it is the main ingredient that adds hardness to the alloy. After skimming the largest part of the dross, clips, zinc, steel etc. I will flux again and stir the antimony back in and then gather whatever is left in the middle of the pot and remove with a small ladle or spoon. Then pour my ingots. That way I think I will be keeping as much antimony in my alloy as I possibly can.
I will use Marvelux for fluxing when smelting but when casting from my furnace I will be using CFF for the first time. Just received a supply and can't wait to try it this coming weekend. Heard a lot of good things about it and it is sold by a member and sponsor of this forum. Check it out. I'll find a link for it and post it back here for you but I'd be willing to bet someone else will beat me to it.:)
Guess I lost that bet but anyway, check the members list for PatMarlin for the CFF if interested.
Oh and welcome to the forum.
As an afterthought, also check this site. A great place for info about handloading, casting and fluxing:
http://www.lasc.us/

[qajaq59]

Thank you all again for your help, I,m just trying to get off to a good start, so sorry for all the silly questions but I just don't know, and I don't want to get in trouble with this. When you are dealing with molten lead there aren't any silly questons. Far better to ask then mess something up or get hurt. Ask away.........

[twally]

I am quite new to smelting wheel weights also. For skimming the stuff off the top I am going to try a french fry skimmer. It has a bunch of tiny holes in it so any lead tin or antimony I may scoop up will go back into the melt. The reason being the antimony contained in the wheel weights may also seperate some from the lead. You don't want to remove this as it is the main ingredient that adds hardness to the alloy. After skimming the largest part of the dross, clips, zinc, steel etc. I will flux again and stir the antimony back in and then gather whatever is left in the middle of the pot and remove with a small ladle or spoon. Then pour my ingots. That way I think I will be keeping as much antimony in my alloy as I possibly can.
I will use Marvelux for fluxing when smelting but when casting from my furnace I will be using CFF for the first time. Just received a supply and can't wait to try it this coming weekend. Heard a lot of good things about it and it is sold by a member and sponsor of this forum. Check it out. I'll find a link for it and post it back here for you but I'd be willing to bet someone else will beat me to it.:)
Guess I lost that bet but anyway, check the members list for PatMarlin for the CFF if interested.
Oh and welcome to the forum.
As an afterthought, also check this site. A great place for info about handloading, casting and fluxing:
http://www.lasc.us/



How do you know if you are removing the antimony? I used a large serving spoon with slotts in it to remove the clips etc. and then tried to keep pulling the skin that formed on top over to the side and lift it out, is it ok to keep pulling this skin off of the top or am I removeing the antimony? also the skin kept forming after I skimmed it does this mean there is still junk in the melt?
And if I don't get all of it this time can I get the rest when I melt in a small pot when I pour boolits?

Thank' Again Todd W.

[Gunslinger]

When I make ingots I flux with 2 small candles, you could also use saw dust hence the suggestion on using a wooden dowel.

When the time comes to poor boolits yes there will still be some impurities let, I remove these from the furnace with a tablespoon after stirring with a wooden dowel.

As for the skin on top of the smelt, I'm quite sure this is oxidised metal. When fluxing you alloy this "metal-skin" back into the lead.

When I was more inexperienced I removed this skin the first few times. The boolits turned out nice anyway!

[blackthorn]

There are many previous threads on this (and other forums) about fluxing. Use the search function and read for awhile. I only ever use a piece of VERY DRY 1x2 to stir and flux anymore. I do the initial melting in a cut-off 20lb propane tank. As others have said using aluminum is an accident in progress. Dont worry about the pretty colours, its all good alloy.

[giz189]

if you don't have a copy of The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook it has some very good info in it.

[Old Ironsights]

#1 - go to an "Overstock" Cheap Chinese Crap store and buy a set of Stainless Steel Stock Pots.

Should cost aout $15 for a set of 3, including a 5gal one. Here's a set for more than I paid at the discount house, but these are Bonzer.

http://www.potspansplus.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=8&zenid=17f6c4a97bba4415b847b759e0764e6f

http://www.potspansplus.com/catalog/images/PPD400.jpg

If you don't have a thermometer (get one) IMEX you can catch all the bad stuff right at 650deg by this method:

Dump 20# of WW into your pot & crank up the fire.
Watch it as it gets hot, and keep poking th mass of WWS with a DRY wood stirring stick.
The WWs will start to melt/get crumbly at about 500deg and begin to make a mush.

Mix the mush - clips & all - until it becomes liquid. This will be right at 625-650 deg.

Scrape the now floating clips, zincers & steelies off into one of your other stock pots.

If you have more WWs, immediately add them before the melt gets too mch hotter. It should QUICKLY go back to a mushy mass (500-600) with a lump of WWs in it. Start stirring again.

Repeat the last 3 steps until you are out of WWs or room on your stock pot.

Once you have melted everything/all you can melt, you can let it get hotter as you stir with your stick until it's at a nice pourable 750 or so... but since you have scraped off the clips & floaters early & often you shouldn't have to worry too much about how hot in total it gets when you pour ingots.

[WHITETAIL]

Twally, Welcome to the forum!:holysheep

[Daves1]

Since I switched to the wooden dowel my alloy of W.W. has improved greatly, I do like to add a pea size piece of wax to help the clips seperate cleaner.

[Wayne Smith]

How do you know if you are removing the antimony? I used a large serving spoon with slotts in it to remove the clips etc. and then tried to keep pulling the skin that formed on top over to the side and lift it out, is it ok to keep pulling this skin off of the top or am I removeing the antimony? also the skin kept forming after I skimmed it does this mean there is still junk in the melt?
And if I don't get all of it this time can I get the rest when I melt in a small pot when I pour boolits?

Thank' Again Todd W.

As soon as you flux the melt it begins once again to oxidize as soon as the lead is exposed to air. This is lead oxide and will return to the mix when you flux again. You don't need to keep skimming it. I cast with a ladle so I am constantly adding oxygen to the mix, creating more lead oxide. I don't re-flux until it gets thick enough to interfere with ladling.

[armyrat1970]

How do you know if you are removing the antimony? I used a large serving spoon with slotts in it to remove the clips etc. and then tried to keep pulling the skin that formed on top over to the side and lift it out, is it ok to keep pulling this skin off of the top or am I removeing the antimony? also the skin kept forming after I skimmed it does this mean there is still junk in the melt?
And if I don't get all of it this time can I get the rest when I melt in a small pot when I pour boolits?

Thank' Again Todd W.

Hi Todd. If you haven't checked that link I gave you yet do. Great info on loading, casting and fluxing. I don't know if there is really anyway to make sure you are not removing the antimony when smelting. Antimony melts at a much higher temp than lead (like around 1200F or so) so when your lead is melted the antimony is just kind of floating around. But it should not be in as huge amounts as the zinc left on the weight or iron or steel on the weight. Thats why I will use the strainer to remove the leftover zinc, iron or steel. The thoughts I posted were just the thoughts I have to minimize the amount of antimony I may be removing from my melt. You have to flux again to mix the antimony with the lead even though it is not completly smelting with the lead. It's kind of like mixing Kool-Aid. Stir the Kool-Aid in water and some mixes but there are some particles that don't. But as long as you keep it mixed, they will all pour into the glass. And taste like whatever flavor.
Each has to try his own method and nothing is written in stone as there are many different opinions and thoughts about it. I feel the way I will approach it will keep as much antimony in the melt as possible. If it doesn't work as I think it will, I will try another method. It never hurts to keep fluxing and many use many different types of flux. Beeswax. Candle stubs. Marvelux. Sawdust. If you read all of the post here your head will start to swirl like your alloy when you are stirring the melt with the many different things others use for fluxing. They have found what they like and what works for them and they swear by it. You will have to do the same thing. Experiment and find what works best for you.
And as giz189 posted. Try to get the Layman Cast Bullet Handbook. The Lee Modern Second Edition also has a lot of great info on casting.

[Ian Robertson]

I once had some pure pb that was from pipe a plumber friend gave me. Once turned into ingots it had a purple colour to it. I don't know what it was but I never got that stuff to cast decently.