no more mil surplus brass

[housedad]

This was just sent to me by a trusted source. If true, then we can kiss lake city brass goodbye.


Thank you, Mr President and Madam Speaker! (sarcasm)

>
>>
>> http://www.govliquidation.com
>>
>> Dear Valued Customer:
>>
>> Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense
>> Logistics Agency:
>>
>> Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes
>> and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in
>> conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve
>> as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement
>> mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective
>> immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of
>> any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term
>> contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV
>> personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of
>> destruction is required in either case.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> DOD Surplus
>> 15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
>> Scottsdale, AZ 85254

[CountryBoy19]

I can't say for sure, but a member on another board was very adamant that this won't matter. That only applies to fired munition that are destined to be destroyed, it is only a step to ensure that they're actually being destroyed. This will not effect those munition that are not currently supposed to be destroyed. This same policy was instituted several years ago and this is only a clarification. I wouldn't fret too much. But I can't say with absolute certainty about this. I just know that I have enough to take care of myself so maybe I'm just not as worried.

[mike in co]

do you guys ever read the site BEFORE YOU POST ???

it is on two exisiting posts on two forums.

and if true it is about BRASS... as in once fired lc/wwc/fc brass( 9mm.45, 223, 300wm,50 and maybe more.

mike in co

[Gohon]

DRMS-I 4160.14
Section 3 - Special Processing

Cartridge Cases (Fired Brass) - Expended

Definition/Description
Ammunition components consisting of cartridge and shell casings are subject to the International Traffic In Arms Regulations set forth in subchapter M of 22 Code of Federal Regulations (22 CFR 120.1. et.seq). Once expended, they are processed as fired brass scrap, with precautions to avoid improper release of unexpended cases.

Policy References/Authority
DOD 4160.21-M and DOD 4160.21-M-1.

Unique Processing Information/How to Manage
Receiving: The ETID/DTID must include the appropriate DEMIL code or clear-text statement for each receipt. The turn-in must contain certification that the residue is inert. Two signatures, a certifier and a verifier are required. Opening sealed/banded containers invalidates the inert certification. DRMOs will inspect what is readily visible (open boxes and drums) to verify the absence of contaminants, such as live rounds. No other level of inspection is required.

NOTE: Not authorized for receipt from DLA Depot Recycling Control Points (RCPs).

Warehousing/Storage: Storage will be accomplished in a properly assigned DEMIL Code “A” or “B” scrap pile.

Reutilization/Transfers/Donations: GSA regional offices are authorized to approve transfer to SASPs, for donation to state and local governments, surplus expended cartridge cases (under .50 caliber) for reloading of the cartridges.

DEMIL: All expended small arms cartridge cases (50 caliber and under) are assigned DEMIL Code “E.” Expended shotgun shell cases are assigned DEMIL Code “A.” Expended artillery cases are assigned DEMIL Code “B.”

Sales: Sales in CONUS are authorized for casings 50 caliber and under (to satisfy local/reloading market/demand only). The appropriate sales method will be determined based on location, commodity condition, etc. as well as any current, unique sales/scrap processing initiatives that may be in place. End Use Certificates are required for these sales.

Abandonment/Destruction: Used if specifically directed on a case-by-case basis.

Property Accounting: DEMIL performed code “9” is authorized for casings assigned DEMIL Code “E” but no DEMIL is required. No additional unique property accounting required.

Be very cautious when any organization gives you a form letter to flood to your representative. Often their agenda is not what you expect and using a misunderstood or misrepresented memorandum to create paranoia is a tool often used. If someone can find a DOD directive that pacifically changes the wording quoted above pleas post. The above regulation was last updated in December 2008. Previous last update was 2006. My suspicion is somewhere in the actual memorandum that if fueling this is a clarification on CONUS and none CONUS sales. Stands to reason.

[mike in co]

please go read the original two threads. see my post. i'm trying to confirm the changeor dispel the rumor.

[Avery Arms]

Someone thinks it's real http://www.georgia-arms.com/


PP

[oldtoolsniper]

Post links to the threads.

As a side note you have to turn in at least 85% of your expended brass to the ASP that you drew it from. It must be certified by you and the guy accepting it as inert. You and he have to sort it all to make sure no live ammo goes into the scrap pile. If you cannot recover 85% of your brass a Colonel and a Captain must certify that it was non-recoverable and the reason why.

[oldtoolsniper]

I have Just called the site in Yuma that is linked in Bobs post and was told by customer service that the brass must be crushed on site and verified by DOD personnel so this is in fact true. You cannot remove it from the site in a serviceable condition.

see the politics area of this board I don't yet know how to link threads

[04heritage]

Sounds to me like another back door is being opened . another method for them to control our Freedom !!

[Gohon]

I have Just called the site in Yuma that is linked in Bobs post and was told by customer service that the brass must be crushed on site and verified by DOD personnel

That's because they are a Scrap Venture (SV). They are required by Government liquidations to do that and always have been. The more I look into this the more it seems to be coming clear. Seems some companies such as Georgia-Arms has been buying once fired brass as scrap metal which under Government Liquidations required mutilation if indeed was scrap metal. Why would companies want to do this....... for one thing it was cheap as bought by the pound. Second thing is they didn't have to fill out all those certificates declaring end user use to keep those once fired brass casings from falling into enemy hands, and lastly they made a higher profit on resales. Since we are in a state of war and national security is being monitored it seems Government Liquidation is closing a loop hole that irritating some companies because they can see their profits get slimmer.

Does this mean the discontinued sale of once fired brass to the public or to reloading companies. No it does not because it is still being sold as it always has been and was intended to be at DRMO's as DRMS/GL SALES. Yes end user certificates have to be signed and yes lots are bid on instead of simply being weighed and sold as scrap but it is there. Scrap Venture is not DRMS and as stated before a few ate ticked their profits may take a hit because they maybe now have to follow proper procedures to get their once fired brass.

Why would Government Liquidation be enforcing this rule now? Here is an explination from another site and poster I'm sure everyone can understand.

"GL does manage some of the scrap venture sales.

HOWEVER, the rules for Scrap Venture sales ARE NOT THE SAME AS THOSE FOR REGULAR DRMS/GL SALES.

Google Scrap Venture, read what it is, over and over until you grasp how that program is NOT the same as a regular auction.

Now, if you need an explanation of why the rules are not the same, here it is- on a Scrap Venture sale contract, the buyer bids for the right to purchase all scrap of that type, at that location, for a set price and period. Lets say I bid on a SV contract for irony brass and bronze. I win at $1.02 a pound- so for the next 6 months, all irony brass and bronze that location produces AS SCRAP I get for $1.02 a pound.

Note, however, that most small arms brass does NOT get sold like this.

Now, for those not familiar with the demil procedures and requirements who have not figured out why they treat brass sales differently between the two types, I will explain. When you buy brass, you have to fill out an End Use Certificate stating you are a legal buyer, you will not export, etc etc because brass is indeed a demil B item. However, if brass gets dumped into a scrap bin with all sorts of other scrap metal, the buyer can get it out of that scrap bin later and they have not filled out an EUC for that brass. Therefore, to prevent fired brass from being sold without a proper EUC, they are stating that brass sold ON A SCRAP VENTURE CONTRACT must be demilled, because otherwise a demil B item would be sold without a proper EUC".

As I said earlier, sometimes the real agenda of why these things get started may not be what you thought it was.

[mike in co]

That's because they are a Scrap Venture (SV). They are required by Government liquidations to do that and always have been. The more I look into this the more it seems to be coming clear. Seems some companies such as Georgia-Arms has been buying once fired brass as scrap metal which under Government Liquidations required mutilation if indeed was scrap metal. Why would companies want to do this....... for one thing it was cheap as bought by the pound. Second thing is they didn't have to fill out all those certificates declaring end user use to keep those once fired brass casings from falling into enemy hands, and lastly they made a higher profit on resales. Since we are in a state of war and national security is being monitored it seems Government Liquidation is closing a loop hole that irritating some companies because they can see their profits get slimmer.

Does this mean the discontinued sale of once fired brass to the public or to reloading companies. No it does not because it is still being sold as it always has been and was intended to be at DRMO's as DRMS/GL SALES. Yes end user certificates have to be signed and yes lots are bid on instead of simply being weighed and sold as scrap but it is there. Scrap Venture is not DRMS and as stated before a few ate ticked their profits may take a hit because they maybe now have to follow proper procedures to get their once fired brass.

Why would Government Liquidation be enforcing this rule now? Here is an explination from another site and poster I'm sure everyone can understand.

"GL does manage some of the scrap venture sales.

HOWEVER, the rules for Scrap Venture sales ARE NOT THE SAME AS THOSE FOR REGULAR DRMS/GL SALES.

Google Scrap Venture, read what it is, over and over until you grasp how that program is NOT the same as a regular auction.

Now, if you need an explanation of why the rules are not the same, here it is- on a Scrap Venture sale contract, the buyer bids for the right to purchase all scrap of that type, at that location, for a set price and period. Lets say I bid on a SV contract for irony brass and bronze. I win at $1.02 a pound- so for the next 6 months, all irony brass and bronze that location produces AS SCRAP I get for $1.02 a pound.

Note, however, that most small arms brass does NOT get sold like this.

Now, for those not familiar with the demil procedures and requirements who have not figured out why they treat brass sales differently between the two types, I will explain. When you buy brass, you have to fill out an End Use Certificate stating you are a legal buyer, you will not export, etc etc because brass is indeed a demil B item. However, if brass gets dumped into a scrap bin with all sorts of other scrap metal, the buyer can get it out of that scrap bin later and they have not filled out an EUC for that brass. Therefore, to prevent fired brass from being sold without a proper EUC, they are stating that brass sold ON A SCRAP VENTURE CONTRACT must be demilled, because otherwise a demil B item would be sold without a proper EUC".

As I said earlier, sometimes the real agenda of why these things get started may not be what you thought it was.
DOD Surplus
15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254

March 12, 2009

Larry Haynie
Georgia Arms
PO Box 238
Villa Rica, GA 30180

Re: Event 7084-6200:

Dear Larry Haynie,

Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government.

If you do not agree with the new conditions of your spot sale, please sign the appropriate box provided below stating that you do not agree to the new terms and would like to cancel your purchase effective immediately. If you do agree to the new terms please sign in the appropriate box provided below to acknowledge your understanding and agreement with the new requirements relating to your purchase. Fax the signed document back to (480) 367-1450, emailed responses are not acceptable.

Please respond to this request no later than close of business Monday, March 16th, 2009.

Sincerely,

Government Liquidation.
AND MY SUSPISIONS OF GOHON CONTINUES

[mike in co]

MAYBE MR GOHON CAN POST SOME OF THE SV AUCTIONS FOR 223/308/300 WIN MAG/45ACP OR 9MM BRASS.....
i have never seen small arms brass mixed with "srcap brass"( pipe fittings and such)....

just blowing smoke.....

mike in co

[Mtman314]

I was talking to a friend of mine tonight he claims he has been trying to get 223 reloadable casings for about 3-4 months and the shop he deals with claims they can't be gotten.

[Hurricane]

This is true. Once fired brass will be destroyed instead of being sold to shooters and reloading companies. This is a major attack on the 2nd amendment. The result will be an immediate reduction of ammunition available and a sharp increase in cost. Even though this is being done through DOD policy instead of legislation, call your Senator and Congress Representative now and as often as you can to let them know that this is a waste of valuable and usable material. Remember, you paid for the shell casings throught taxes. We should have a say is the use of the shell casings after they military has used them. Call over and over again. They only thing that Congress cares about is a large and angry group of voters. Do not just wait to see what happens. This must be stopped and reversed now if we hope to ever get it reversed.

[Agent Ronin]

I just spent about 10 minutes on the phone with a rep from the NRA-ILA. This is true and appears to be a decision that was made from very low on the DoD totem.

He also indicated that they are working on it, and keeping it low key intentionally rather than turning this into a red-alert call all the congress type panic. (That actually makes sense to me...)

So i would say the sky isn't falling (yet) and just keep your ear tuned in...

[Gohon]

Mike I really don't understand why you are having such a hard time understanding this. In the first place SV's don't have auctions and the reason you've never seen brass mixed with other scrap is because regulations were not being followed. A lot of military installations were not following guide lines but instead were simply shipping their brass to scrap yards because it was more convenient and they didn't have the means to mutilate the brass. A lot of SV's were happy to get it because they had customers that did not smelt the brass and make their own cartridges but instead reloaded and sold.

Do you really think Government Liquidation has thousands of employees that will now fan out over the country to ensure brass is mutilated at scrap yards? Do you really think most military sites have machines set up to mutilate spent brass? The answer to both questions is no, of course not. What will happen now is military installations will now ship their spent brass to DRMO's where it will and always has been available to reloaders except now they have to fill out the proper paper work and bid on lots.

This whole thing is nothing more than the same crap that has fueled the same paranoia groups that went into this buying and hording panic that has emptied the store shelves of ammo and reloading supplies.

When DRMO comes out and says they will no longer sell reloadable spent brass for public use then you have something to worry about. That is most likely why NRA-ILA is keeping this low keyed, watching to see that the DRMO's don't start doing funny things. And, if it was a low on the totem ple decision then that means the regulation was always there to be enforced by anyone. As long as DRMO sells brass to the public with EUC paper work signed, anyone can buy it and the brass is not mutilated. If DRMO ships a batch to a scrap dealer (SV) then the brass must be mutilated. The rules have always been this way, simply never followed to the letter. Again, DRMO's and SV's are not the same thing.

[mike in co]

Mike I really don't understand why you are having such a hard time understanding this. In the first place SV's don't have auctions and the reason you've never seen brass mixed with other scrap is because regulations were not being followed. A lot of military installations were not following guide lines but instead were simply shipping their brass to scrap yards because it was more convenient and they didn't have the means to mutilate the brass. A lot of SV's were happy to get it because they had customers that did not smelt the brass and make their own cartridges but instead reloaded and sold.

Do you really think Government Liquidation has thousands of employees that will now fan out over the country to ensure brass is mutilated at scrap yards? Do you really think most military sites have machines set up to mutilate spent brass? The answer to both questions is no, of course not. What will happen now is military installations will now ship their spent brass to DRMO's where it will and always has been available to reloaders except now they have to fill out the proper paper work and bid on lots.

This whole thing is nothing more than the same crap that has fueled the same paranoia groups that went into this buying and hording panic that has emptied the store shelves of ammo and reloading supplies.

When DRMO comes out and says they will no longer sell reloadable spent brass for public use then you have something to worry about. As long as DRMO sells brass to the public with EUC paper work signed, anyone can buy it and the brass is not mutilated. If DRMO ships a batch to a scrap dealer (SV) then the brass must be mutilated. The rules have always been this way, simply never followed to the letter. Again, DRMO's and SV's are not the same thing.



yes the governemnt does expect bases to follow disposal rules. i wa son a command with just over 100 people. we followed the rules. you are nieve to think command heads do not know such rules are around and that they must be folllowed. scrapping material to a local scrap yard...lol you do make me laugh. maybe with pipe and such , but not with material that has export controls on it. we are not takling sv...we are takling small caliber spent brass cases. it is well known it must be recycled. they convict people every year for theift.
and for the record as of march 9, enforced on march 12....NO ONE CAN BUY 50 AND DOWN BRASS CASES FOR RESALE, ALL REQUIRE DESTRUCTION. GO READ THE POSTS.
I NOW HAVE TWO CONFIRMED SUCCESFULLY BIDDERS THAT HAVE BEEN TOLD AFTER THE AUCTION THAT THEY MUST DESTROY OR BACK OUT OF THE PURCHASE.

you are bending the actual story to fit your mind, but it is not what is going on. the buyers are clearly buying bulk fired brass for resale in compliance with the auction and being told AFTERWARDS that the auction was in error and only destruction, not reuse, is allowed.

Contact your politicians and get this corrected.

mike in co

[walnutred]

I just went to the DOD auction web site and looked up lots of fired brass. All of the auctions I found stated that the brass must be mutilated in front of witnesses before it could be transported off post.

I would think the most effective way of getting this changed would be for the DCM purchase it at scrap value unmutilated then resell it. If they can sell firearms they aught to be able to handle brass.

[No_1]

Cool it down guys. Do your research and discuss it with a cool tone.

Robert

[madman]

I went to my supplier and his source just dried up. He only had 1500 223 bras left. he said that he was going to keep that for his own stash. Sad but true people. Georgia arms did an interview on a local gun talk radio show here on sunday and confirmed what is going on. They process 1.5 million rounds a month in 223. He will be laying off 30 people soon. He sells to allot of Police departments for training. The thing he said that the existing brass prices will go through the roof. He predicted 75 cents + per case. I have seen that already translate into higher costs of ammo here. The brass that I was able to get had already doubled in price over night.

[klcarroll]

I agree with what others have said here! ........We need to make a stink about this!

At a point in time when the Federal Government is desperately strapped for cash, someone in the DoD decides to make a move to DEVALUE their scrap sales!

What irresponsible nonsense!!

……And what is the point??? …Have they documented EVEN ONE Gangbanger, Stick-Up man, or Terrorist who reloads to support his trade????

It was bad enough when they declared that surplus jeeps had to be “De-milled”; ….but with that they at least had the thin excuse that they didn’t meet civilian safety standards.

In this case, there is no logical justification at all! ……I, for one, have already written AND emailed my “Representatives”: …..I hope others will do the same!

Kent

[GrizzLeeBear]

Looks like the DOD is reversing course on this. See the updated notice http://www.georgia-arms.com/

Looks as if the s%*#storm that was raised by everyone contacting senators, etc. has paid off. We should keep an eye on it of course until an official policy change is announced.

[waksupi]

It has been announced.

[Papa Foxtrot]

Damn good job people. It shows that we don't have to lie down and take this crap. We need to push back every opportunity. Keep the phone lines warm and the email inboxes full...

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I'll second that and we need to be ever on watch for their next move and keep fighting back, the Messiah's approval ratings are slipping and we need to anything we can to help it along...
They are attacking our rights for a reason , and it is not a good one---Power!

[TAWILDCATT]

yes and it was two senators who pushed to get it resended.big to do on ann coulters site.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[square butte]

Please let Gary Marbut , John Tester, and Max Baucus know how much you appreciate thier response and action on this matter.

[Gohon]

What they did was issue a clarification of the original notice. Below is the email received by Georgia Arms clarifying the notice was for outside CONUS sales and a ECU was issued.



I am sorry you hadn’t been informed –

Word came down that all shells 50 caliber or smaller CAN still be purchased without the mutilation requirement as long as kept in the US.

(As it was in limbo, I did not sent your EUC to Battle Creek until today, also why I have not contacted you for payment until today.)

Thanks!

Arana K. Wolin
Document Verification Supervisor
Government Liquidation, LLC
DOD Surplus, LLC
15051 N Kierland Blvd. #300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254

[mike in co]

what they did WAS REVERSE a poor decision. it was not a claificartion. the rules changes last yr, an exception was made for use inside the us of a. someone pulled all the exemptions.....an idiot with no clue, that should be fired. with political pressure applied , the ERROR was found and corrected( the exemptions were put back in place).

go read all the info prior to posting WRONG INFO.
as ususal, gohon has no clue

mike in co

[square butte]

Wonder if anyone will be able to run down exactly where/who the original decision came from.

[klcarroll]

Well!!!! ......I have to say that I am pleased!!

This is the first time in quite a few years that I have seen the system "work"!!

Let's hope it's not the last time!!!!!

Kent

[John Boy]

DRMS has changed their mind ... brass will not be demilitarized ...
http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA_mcunningham.pdf

[mike in co]

DRMS has changed their mind ... brass will not be demilitarized ...
http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/DLA_mcunningham.pdf

what a joke...the last to know last to react nra.....

they do not pay attention

we the public had to tell them....they should have people watching the net all the time....

actually this is three for three...they opposed heller going to court, they missed the osha backdoor, and they missed this one too....

now someone tell me why we pay THEM TO PROTECT our rights ??

[Baron von Trollwhack]

NRA consistent failure is why I always advocate you support your state R & P organization, CCKRBA, GOA, etc. in order to maximize your throw weight.

I am fairly sure this was an obumer political apointee DLA decision in a real attempt to cut military surplus sales when the commercial sector cannot keep up with citizen requirements, with the nation's thinkers arming themselves against thugs, zombies, and social and political upheaval. Most political appointees are the #####, only few require Senate confirmation, all are Party or personal hacks, and some like the one here are looking to advance their personal agendas and priviledges. Few are Genuine public servants. BvT

[Tom Schafer]

1403 Days 22 Hours to go!

[Gohon]

what they did WAS REVERSE a poor decision. it was not a claificartion. the rules changes last yr, an exception was made for use inside the us of a. someone pulled all the exemptions.....an idiot with no clue, that should be fired. with political pressure applied , the ERROR was found and corrected( the exemptions were put back in place).

go read all the info prior to posting WRONG INFO.
as ususal, gohon has no clue

mike in co

Mike why do you insist on making this personal and in public? I posted word for word the email received. Anyone reading it can see it runs parallel to my earlier statements. The exemptions are no different today than they were yesterday only they are now clarified. If you have all this INFO you talk about, please post it for all of us to read. That won't happen though will it...........

If you want to continues with the personal attacks, take it to PM and I will kindly respond in same.

[JW6108]

NRA/ILA on this issue:

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/NewsReleases.aspx?ID=12244

[GrizzLeeBear]

The NRA and DoD make it sound like this was just a temporary thing while they were working out a few details. But if you read the original message sent to Georgia Arms, there was no mention of the changed policy being temporary or under some sort of review. It just stated point blank that no more surplus brass was to be sold.

I'm not prone to believe in conspiracy theories, but I think Mike is right. Someone tried to slip something by the shooting community and got caught, thanks in no small part to Georgia Arms raising the alarm. The NRA never said boo about it until it was all over. They will probably claim some credit for some "behind the scenes" activity, but the truth is it was all the grassroots communication to congress critters that got the heat turned up on the DoD.

[Papa Foxtrot]

I'm not sure this was part of an Obama "grand plan". It's a little early in his administration for this sort of "stealth ban" funny business. IMO, more likely it was some mid-level bureaucrat that took a bribe from a major ammunition supplier to eliminate some competition during a time of tight supply. The new administration just gave him some additional political cover to pull it off. He prob'ly won't be getting that new Mercedes after all.

Jus' my opinion....

[thebigmac]

hey guys.. That has been changed... Brass will be available as before...

Great news!

It appears the destruction of military once fired brass has ended
with a reversal of DoD policy.

Who says complaining does not pay off.

Please read the latest from the MSSA

http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090317.htm

[shdwlkr]

have you heard he pulled money out of the fund to train pilots to carry firearms and wants to take the right away from the 12,000 that currently can? it was on Newsmax. today. I guess he is getting his ducks in a row to declare national Marshall law so he can tell all of what to do and when to do it.

[WildmanJack]

http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090317.htm
Don't know how ligit the website is, but here it is for what it's worth..
Jack
:drinks::drinks:

[ozzy1038]

I have heard it was reversed as well. I hope it is true and if so, outstanding!!

[mike in co]

Mike why do you insist on making this personal and in public? I posted word for word the email received. Anyone reading it can see it runs parallel to my earlier statements. The exemptions are no different today than they were yesterday only they are now clarified. If you have all this INFO you talk about, please post it for all of us to read. That won't happen though will it...........

If you want to continues with the personal attacks, take it to PM and I will kindly respond in same.

the exemptions were canceled, not clarified. they were reinstated. black and white.
the email to georgia arms is not correct, and is out of context( you must go look at the original emal from the auction house to georgia arms, just a clearical tap dance).
its not personal, its how i treat most people that publish bs, the only real diff is you do it contimually, so you think it is personal.
why you concocted the salvage story is just amazing. it had absolutely nothing to do wiht the FACTS.
now as far as comunication with you, i'll make it simple, i'll add you to my ignore list, and that will put an end to the issue.
mike in co

[jack19512]

Is this what you guys are talking about? Go to second article.

http://www.nraila.org/

[Mtman314]

The Letter from MSSA is a legit one I know Gary, Have testified on a number of Bills with him in Helena. I can also tell you I've seen an Article in World Net Daily but it was sent to my mail. I'll post it here so you can see it since I don't have a link to it.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Feds undercut ammo supply
But Defense policy reversed after intervention by 2 Montana senators

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 17, 2009
9:00 pm Eastern


By Drew Zahn
© 2009 WorldNetDaily



Fired brass shell casings

Responding to two Democratic senators representing outraged private gun owners, the Department of Defense announced last night it has scrapped a new policy that would deplete the supply of ammunition by requiring destruction of fired military cartridge brass.

The policy already had taken a bite out of the nation's stressed ammunition supply, leaving arms dealers scrambling to find ammo for private gun owners.

Mark Cunningham, a legislative affairs representative with the Defense Logistics Agency, explained in an e-mail last night to the office of Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont., that the Department of Defense had placed small arms cartridge cases on its list of sensitive munitions items as part of an overall effort to ensure national security is not jeopardized in the sale of any Defense property.

The small arms cases were identified as a senstive item and were held pending review of policy, he said.

"Upon review, the Defense Logistics Agency has determined the cartridge cases could be appropriately placed in a category of government property allowing for their release for sale," Cunningham wrote.

The Defense Department liaison was responding to a letter yesterday to the Defense Logistic Agency's Vice Admiral Alan S. Thompson from Tester and fellow Montana Democrat Sen. Max Baucus. The senators argued "prohibiting the sale of fired military brass would reduce the supply of ammunition – preventing individual gun owners from fully exercising their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. We urge you to address this situation promptly."

Learn here why it's your right -- and duty -- to be armed.

One of the companies that brought attention to the issue is Georgia Arms, which for the last 15 years has been purchasing fired brass casings from the Department of Defense and private government surplus liquidators. The military collects the discarded casings from fired rounds, then sells them through liquidators to companies like Georgia Arms that remanufacture the casings into ammunition for the law enforcement and civilian gun owner communities.

But earlier this month, Georgia Arms received a canceled order, informed by its supplier that the government now requires fired brass casings be mutilated, in other words, destroyed to a scrap metal state.

The policy change, handed down from the Department of Defense through the Defense Logistics Agency, cut a supply leg out from underneath ammunition manufacturers.

The policy compelled Georgia Arms to cancel all sales of .223 and .308 ammunition, rounds used, respectively, in semi-automatic and deer hunting rifles, until further notice. Sharch Manufacturing, Inc. had announced the same cancellation of its .223 and .308 brass reloading components.

"They just reclassified brass to allow destruction of it, based on what?" Georgia Arms owner Larry Haynie asked WND. "We've been 'going green' for the last dozen years, and brass is one of the most recyclable materials out there. A cartridge case can be used over and over again. And now we're going to destroy it based on what? We don't want the civilian public to have it? It's a government injustice."

WND reported, firearm sales have spiked since the election of a perceived anti-gun president, and Americans stockpiling bullets have produced a stressed ammunition market.

The Orlando Sentinel reports months of steady, heavy buying have left gun dealers in Florida facing shortages of ammunition.

"The survivalist in all of us comes out," John Ritz, manager of a Florida shooting range, told the Sentinel. "It's more about protecting what you have."

"People are just stockpiling," said a spokeswoman for Georgia Arms, which has seen bullet sales jump 100 percent since the election. "A gun is just like a car. If you can't get gas, you can't use it."

WND contacted the Defense Logistics Agency, the Department of Defense's largest combat support agency, several times seeking comment or explanation for the policy change but received none.

The National Rifle Association confirmed to WND that the DLA had been instructed to require the scrapping of the brass casings but declined further comment.

Other gun advocates, however, sounded off on the issue, eyeing the change in government policy with suspicion and filling the blogosphere with speculation that the effects of the policy change may be deliberate.

"It is an end-run around Congress. They don't need to try to ban guns – they don't need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit 'assault' weapon sales," writes firearm instructor and author Gordon Hutchinson on his The Shootist blog. "Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless."

A writer named Owen at the Boots & Sabers blog suspected the policy change was an effort by an anti-gun administration to raise the cost of ammunition.

"This policy didn't come out of the blue," wrote Owen. "The Commander in Chief is clearly sending a message to gun owners that they should be paying more for ammunition. If he can't do it through regulatory action, he'll do it by forcing ammunition manufacturers to spend more on production."

Hutchinson reports Georgia Arms was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, but without the ability to purchase expended military ammunition, the company might have been forced to lay off up to half its workforce.

[wwmax]

Dod reversed new po:icy regarding spent brass 19mar09

[GrizzLeeBear]

The National Rifle Association confirmed to WND that the DLA had been instructed to require the scrapping of the brass casings but declined further comment..

Like I said, the NRA to our rescue once again. LOL.

[waksupi]

Are the NRA members here signed up for the email alerts? They were one of the first messages I had received on this.

[mike in co]

Are the NRA members here signed up for the email alerts? They were one of the first messages I had received on this.

what is the date stamp on the alert ???


all ever got from the nra was spam/ad's

mike in co

[waksupi]

what is the date stamp on the alert ???


all ever got from the nra was spam/ad's

mike in co

Wish I could tell you the date/time, Mike, but I was doing one of my occasional de-junking of the computer, and lost ALL of my message files. And so far, have not been smart enough to figure out how to return .dbx files.

I'm not sure which part of the site I signed up for it, probably ILA section. Anyway, I get nearly weekly updates of pending state and national legislation.