Mould Lubrication - Really Necessary?

[BrushBuster]

newbie question:
I would really like to keep my casting simple and free of contaminants. Is lubricating the mold before and during the casting session really necessary? I would just like to be able to smoke the mould cavities and periodically graphite lube the sprue plate hinges and let it go at that. What's the real skinny on this?

The following is quoted from a custom mould manufacturer's website:

Bullet moulds require adequate lubrication. Use a good mould prep or mould release containing graphite completely covering the mould inside and out, especially the cavity, and the top and bottom sprue plates. Lubricate the hings of the sprue plates using a small amount of paraffin was as you cast. Just a light touch of was is all it takes. The use of mould prep (release agent) and wax lube is the single greatest asset in keeping your mould working correctly, without galling, and completely free of any build-up of lead deposits. An aerosol Moly lube also works well. :???:

[JohnH]

Who said that???? I use spray graffite on the sprue plate and mold top, but no where else. If the mold is sticky I will take wood matches and smoke the cavity, seems to help with aluminum and iron, but I won't put anything else on the mold especially anything that can get into the cavities, a BIG NO NO. I also aviod using spray graffite on the mold interior, it will make the bullets fall out easy enough, but undersize, that's why the use of matches for a carbon layer.

[Bullshop]

IMHO Bull Plate sprue plate lube is the best substance on the planet for lubing wear points on a mold. Nothing else comes close to the lubricating protection under the extream heat of casting. With Bull Plate you can cut sprues while still liquid without smearing lead. It will eliminate galling on alumimum and brass molds. A single aplication last a long time, and very very little is neaded.
Yes molds have to be lubed, but not in the cavities. Bull Plate will provide all the lubricating neaded to keep any mold going for a life time provided it is not abused otherwise.
NO BULL Bull Plate works guarentied! There are a lot of casters on this board that have used it and I have yet to hear from one that will disagree.
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

Nothing else comes close to the lubricating protection under the extream heat of casting.

Dan,

I must be lucky as I don't have many problems with my moulds. I #2 lead pencil up the top of the mould, the botton and top of the sprue plate, and little beeswas on the pivot, that's it. As to your quote above high temperature anti-seize either the copper version or plain will meet and exceed the extreame heat of casting. I do use the copper version on the exhaust bolts on my high performance 61 Chevy Impala and even that doesn't burn it all off and it's hotter then a mould, especially running headers. Not knocking your lube, just saying there's lubes out there that will do the same, you just have to know what they are. After all you found something for your lube and I'll bet it's a common everyday obtainable ingredient.

Joe

[omgb]

I've coated the inside of the cavities with graphite mould release befor..no biggie. It does help sometimes but it's not usually needed nor especially efficatious. Certainly, I wouldn't want oil or other lube type crap in the cavity. A smokie match is OK too but again, not all moulds need it. The sprue plates and hinges are another matter. I touch a small dab of Veral Smith's lube to both. My guess is it's his bullet lube with graphite in it. It works very well.

[Buckshot]

Nothing else comes close to the lubricating protection under the extream heat of casting.

Dan,

I must be lucky as I don't have many problems with my moulds. I #2 lead pencil up the top of the mould, the botton and top of the sprue plate, and little beeswas on the pivot, that's it. As to your quote above high temperature anti-seize either the copper version or plain will meet and exceed the extreame heat of casting. I do use the copper version on the exhaust bolts on my high performance 61 Chevy Impala and even that doesn't burn it all off and it's hotter then a mould, especially running headers. Not knocking your lube, just saying there's lubes out there that will do the same, you just have to know what they are. After all you found something for your lube and I'll bet it's a common everyday obtainable ingredient.

Joe


Joe, for a lube to work effectively it has to get between the 2 pieces touching. DO you take the sprueplate off to get the copper stuff in there, or what? I have some Kopperkote gasket stuff around here someplace.

........................Buckshot

[Lloyd Smale]

I started using anti sieze on my lee molds after it was suggested by lee. It works great. I dont feel a need to lube my steel molds though they work fine without it.

[BrushBuster]

Thanks a lot fella's:
Just what I was hoping for; common products I can easily obtain. I especially liked that tip about using a #2 lead pencil to apply graphite to the sprue plate contact surfaces, and I found a small container of copper Nevr-Seize which states on the label that it's good to 1500 F. A number of previous posts make a point that "less is best", so I'll be frugal with anything I use. [smilie=s:

[StarMetal]

Buckshot,

If you read my post I mentioned all I use is a #2 lead pencil and occassionally some beeswax on the pivot. I'm like Smale, I 99 percent of the time don't need to lube my moulds.

Also we see now that some other posters agree we me about the anti-seize, and other products out there. When I worked at USS Steel in Pittsburgh the dept I worked in had a bunch of lubricants and greases. Of particular interest to me were some of the greases. I was young then and didn't know alot about much of anything. One grease was a grease for shearing metal. It was white and very very tacky. The one that caught my eye was one that was red and had a very soft composition. The guy in charge told me that it was extreme high temp grease and you could damn near put it on a red hot bearing. I took alittle of it home and experimented with it and by George it was of a high temp grease then the automotive types I had around my garage. So there are products out there. Another is steam cylinder lubes like they used on the old locomotives.

Dan Bullshop

I apologize if I hurt your mould lube sells any. Just trying to educate some of the members to things that I may know that they may not be aware of. Sorry.

Joe

[carpetman]

Starmetal----That grease that was white and very,very tacky----did it say something to you like"get out of here wop"?

[StarMetal]

[smilie=2: I'm a leavin......[smilie=l: Ray, now I bet if I was Waksupi and wrote that, that you would have inquired if I had a sheep use for it.


Joe

[Bullshop]

FWIW - For many years I have used many different things to lube molds always looking for something better. Many things will work to a degree some much better than others. Seeing the wear of constant use even on iron/steel molds keept me always looking. Yes I used the pensil in conjuntion with other things for years but still witnessed the wear, and not absolutely satisfactory results.
I used the NEI sprue lube for a number of years and thought it quite good for the job but still had faults, and with the advent of Walts passing wondered about continued availability.
My plan was actualy to come up with something at least as good as the NEI for a replacment. I now feel BPL is much better.
I reiterate IMHO Bull Plate lube is the best product on the market that has been developed for this job. It is the same synthetic ester fiber base used in Speed Green boolit lube, and again IMHO there is no better boolit lube on the market.
I know many casters feel the same way about thier own methods of mold prep/care, but its realy too bad when anyone keeps a closed minded atitude about trying new ways of doing things. If we think we know it all we cut ourselves off from learning.
Some will argue any point that doesnt origonate with themselves and in stubborness mis the boat on helpfull new ideas that make things so much more simple.
More than one way to skin a cat, shure but unless you try them you will never know. If somone tells you there isnt then they likely havent tried them eather. If somone tells you thier way is better then by all means try it and deceid for yourself. After all if you dont try something you cant possibly know if its better.
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

Bull,

I know what you're talking about, but to me it's kinda in the same league as those automotive oil additive big claims. Restore your engines power, stop oil consumptions, etc. The Restore company even ads that their product can fill some of those scatches in your cylinders. What they all are additives for are peoples minds. Nothing short of a rebuild or new engine is going to restore your old engine.

I don't have a wear problem on my moulds. If folks do then something is wrong...sprue plate not true flat, pivot tightened too much, hitting it open at the wrong angle or with the wrong implement, etc. . I merely use the #2 pencil to just keep lead from sticking because I cast fast and basically am cutting the sprue before it's fully solid. Getting to be too many products for problems folks shouldn't be having. Next someone will come up with a jacket to keep your mould warm while you're using another one.

Like I said there's alot of over the counter products out there that people can lube their sprue plate with if they find they must or have a problem they aren't correctly. One must have some knowledge of oils, greases, lubricants, and chemicals to sort them out though.

About bullet lubes I feel for 90 percent of all applications that the old NRA's 50/50 Alox/Beeswas is one of the best out there. I've made lubes out of just about everything imagineable and BassAckwards will testify to that...ask him about my bubble gum lube as he called it. No it's not made from bubblegum. I don't believe there's a thing hard lubes can do that can't be found with some soft lube, except for the soft lubes being messy and picking up lint and dirt, etc.

I may not be a physicist or bona fide scientist, but I am an exprimenter, probably experiment more then the two professions I just mentioned. I've always been a how, when , where , why type person. I always had to know the technical aspects of something. Example is automotive engine building. Sure, alot of guys can bolt an engine together, but how many of them know the technical aspects of everything inside that engine and how and why it works. An example of that most non knowledgeable guys will tell you that an engine will suck it's air fuel mixture into the cylinder, when we know that it's the atmospheric pressure that pushes it in. Basically in science there is no such thing as suction.

Getting off subject here so I'll end. :hijack:

Joe

[redneckdan]

i use silver grade loctite anti-size lubricant on the alignment surfaces and sprue plate of my lee molds. I use nothing on the cavity.

[BrushBuster]

Bullshop:
I checked out the website you provided, and it looks like a good source for supplies. You can be certain that if I don't already have something on hand that works, I will be placing an order. Thanks for your endorsement of Bull Plate Lube, good to know what will work.
BrushBuster

[Dale53]

Bullshop;
I just dropped a check in the mail for your Bullshop sprue Plate lube. Can't wait to try it.
I have Rapine mould release and also NEI's spray. I'll give all of them a try and see how they stack up.

Dale53

[MGySgt]

I am going to stick my neck out and Joe will probably chop my head off - I have used the pencil (graphit) and Bull Shops Sprue Plate Lube.

Yes the No 2 pencil does work, but I still have wound up with lead smears that I had to take off and I could not get a second application with a hot mold.

I can not get through a casting session with one application of the Bull Shops lube. The plate starts getting some lead smears on it, but it wipes right off, I re-apply the lube and go back to casting.

Brass, or steel - WW at 675+ and ladel pour.

If I had been using graphit - I would have had to stop and clean/scrape the sprue plate and the top of the mold. With BS's Spure plate lube the top of the mold is still clean and I am back to casting in about 1 minute, I just add some more lead to the pot and reflux at this point.

Production rate up!
Better bullets
Mold stays hotter!

Unless I find another lube that works as well as BS's - when I open my last bottle - I will order more.

Just my results - others may be different and my .02 worth.

Drew

[drinks]

For the pivot lube,I use the nickle anti-sieze, not the copper, the difference being 2400' rating of the nickle as to the 1500' rating of the copper, this is from boilermaker specs, for steam fittings in power plants.

[35remington]

Midway's Drop Out works as a lubricant between the top of the mould and the sprue plate, as long as you don't spray it on so thick that it interferes with the venting of the mould. I avoid using it in the cavities, as all it does there is produce undersize, funny looking bullets. It does help keep the sprueplate from galling the top of the mould, especially the Lee aluminum jobbies. I believe it's spray graphite.

If you use it, be sure the cavities have a bullet in them when you spray the top of the mould so you don't get any in there. It also helps keep the sprues from sticking in the sprue chamfers on the sprueplate.

You'll need a lube for the sprue pivots and a (very) little on the locating pins. Use something like Joe or Bullshop mentioned and you're good to go.

BB, be SURE that you use lubricant sparingly on the locating pins and pivot so it does not creep into the cavities and cause wrinkled bullets.

[StarMetal]

Well see....I have folks coming out of the woodwork with products that work as mould lube.

Joe

[Buckshot]

Joe, for a lube to work effectively it has to get between the 2 pieces touching. DO you take the sprueplate off to get the copper stuff in there, or what? I have some Kopperkote gasket stuff around here someplace.

........................Buckshot

"..............If you read my post I mentioned all I use is a #2 lead pencil and occassionally some beeswax on the pivot. I'm like Smale, I 99 percent of the time don't need to lube my moulds."

Ah! Yup went back and re-read the post. You use it on some ole junker GM product ya have :-)

..................Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Buckeroo,

No I use that anti-seize on some of the bolts of my fire breathe ford stomping Chevy. [smilie=p:

Joe

[StarMetal]

Buckeroo,

I don't use the KoperKote on my mould, I haven't needed too. As the other poster said the copper is good to 1500 degrees and the nickle one to 2400 degrees. Either way above mould temperatures. I just use the #2 pencil.

Joe