Wadcutters - which end goes up

[ghh3rd]

Does it matter which end of a full wadcutter goes into the case? I've just been seating my wadcutters in whichever direction they wind up in my hand.

Some literature about molds stated that the precision of the bottom of the bullet is more important than the top, so I figured this means that the more perfect the bottom is, the better the accuracy.

Many of the sprue end of my wadcutters have a small shallow 'crater' in the middle -- as the sprue is cut it sometimes seems to 'tear' away a little at the middle. (I've tried it with hotter and cooler lead, and shorter and longer sprue cooling time, but it still happens on quite a few of my boolits. This will be a question for another post though...)

I doubt this will make much difference in accuracy in this case, since they're going through a 1 7/8" barrel at only 7-10 yards, but I'm curious for future reference.

Thanks,

Randy

[mooman76]

The button goes forward if you got one and a very small carter in the center won't matter much either but as you stated shooting from a 1 7/8" barrel it won'y make any difference anyway!

[ciPeterF]

Don't write off the short barrel too quick.. PPC shooters using snub nosed .38's have shot 51X 600 \ 60x 600 (60 shots) with half the shots from 25 yards, and the remainder at 7 and 15 yds. x ring is approx 2 x 3 oval

[dardascastbullets]

Hi ghh3rd!

I gather from your post that you may be referring to a double ended wadcutter? The sprue end should be seated into the case. Sounds like you have some scrap bullets (sprue cutoff is not smooth but rather gouged out). Your accuracy will not be up to snuff since the bullet will not fly true due to the improper balance from the centerline (centrifugal force). And the standard deviation will suffer.

If you have wadcutters with a button nose, then by all means the 'base' should be seated into the case. Checkout the fillets of your bullets and they should all be sharp without any roundness. Tin content in the alloy will help improve your bullet quality.

I trust that this will help answer your question.

[deltaenterprizes]

I hate to disagree but the base of the bullet is the steering wheel and the sprue end should be up, that is why molds for accuracy are made NOSE POUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is also why match bullets are hollowpoints to make sure the base is perfect.

[Maven]

Randy, Two suggestions: First, torn bases may mean a dull sprue cutter and/or cutting the sprue before it has fully solidified*. Second, sometimes, home cast solid base, button nosed WC's are more accurate when seated with their noses INSIDE the cases, or backwards if you prefer. Why not try your WC's both ways, using a standard target load?


*Try cooling the sprue plate/puddle on a damp sponge/rag a la Bruce B's speed casting method.

[ghh3rd]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Yes, these are full wadcutters (little soup cans). They sure do make nice round holes :-)

Maven, I've been cutting the sprues with a gloved hand, and doing so right after the second sprue turns gray (2 cavity mold). It sure speeds up the process doing it this way, but I'll try the damp sponge/cloth method to cool them and see if that helps smooth out the sprue cut, although I'm sure that I'll have to use a little more muscle to cut the them.

So far, my loads have been at least as accurate if not better than the Walmart .38's, so anything I can do to improve will be a plus.

Randy

[HeavyMetal]

What are you using for alloy?

clip on ww are high (?) in antimony content and the base's will look "grainy" and have that bit of a hole your talking about.

Because it's centered on the boolit base ( and your not shooting 500 yds) I don't think that is as important as clean sharp edge's at the boolit base. If your casting double ended wadcutters they should look like mini boat tails if you casting a plain base it should be sharp enough to shave with!

You can try adding a bit of tin to the mix as this will help with fill out of the "nook and crannie's" in any mold. I think 1 to 1.5 % of as full pot should be more than enough tin.

[Dale53]

Ed Harris has reported much testing with double ended Wadcutters in .38 Specials that showed better accuracy by seating the perfect end (the end opposite the sprue) down. My own limited testing has shown the same.

Since I am FAR more interested in performance rather than appearance of the ammunition, I seat my w/c's accordingly (#251 H&G dbl ended W/C's).

They admittedly look a bit "funky" but they shoot VERY well with the sprue end showing. I also size them "sprue up" and the "nose punch" flattens any part of the sprue that sticks up (in my Star luber/sizer).

I am careful to stack the sized bullets in rows in a box with the sprues up so that is how they get loaded without trying to "juggle" them when operating the Dillon 550B.

While we are discussing this, Ed mentions that he uses just enough taper crimp to remove the "flare" from the case neck. Too much taper crimp affects the groups. I concur here, also.

He further mentions that he loads these a bit heavier than is generally suggested for HBWC's. He recommends 3.0-3.5 grs of Bullseye or equivalent for a powder charge. That is heavier than ususal with HBWC's but you don't have to worry about skirt separation with the solid base cast wad cutters.

While we are on this subject:
I have shot tens of thousands of HBWC's in practice and competition but I prefer to cast and load solid base wadcutters for a variety of reasons these days. I get excellent results, also (typically 3/4" groups at 25 yards - never less than six in a group and some twelve shot groups {no three shot groups for me:roll:

Here is the link to Ed Harris' article on the Cast Bullet Assoc. Forum:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=1383&forum_id=4

Be sure and read the whole thread. LOTS of excellent information.

FWIW
Dale53

[ghh3rd]

HeavyMetal - I'm using 50% clip on/50% stick on. I may try that mix again with a bit of extra tin. I still have about 1 1/2 lbs of real 'tin foil' -- looks like aluminum foil but is tin that was used in the dental industry years ago. Dissolves really fast into hot lead.

My mold is the Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold TL358-148-WC 38 Special, 357 Magum, 38 Colt New Police (358 Diameter) 148 Grain Tumble Lube Wadcutter. It seems that the edge on the top of the boolit is not square and sharp, but has a very small bevel. It looks like the mold is cut like that.

By the way, my 11 yr old son just told me that he wants to cast some bullets for his own use. I think it's great - he wants me to help him lube and reload them so he can "make my own ammo from scratch".

Randy

[David R]

I have been working on this a LOT. Gun is a security six with a custom slab sided barrel. It can shoot well. So far I have found with my saco #50 wadcutters and 3.5 bullseye they shoot smaller groups loaded backwards fully inside the case. I have many targets to prove this. Once I went to 4.0 bullseye it didn't make as much difference. I tried 4.2 of Bullseye with them backwards and got good results. Today I shot them at 50 yards, got about 3" for 5 shots. I like the clean hole they cut. The front of this boolit has a button on it.

Still testing.

Just for reference, I can put 5 HBWC with 3.0 of WW231 in a one caliber group at 50 feet. I didn't try them at 50 yards yet, Its just starting to warm up around here.

I have to smelt some wheel weights and pour some more. I'm outa boolits :(

David :)