38/357 vs 9mm

[Jeffery8mm]

Lets talk about the differences in these rounds. Mostly the 38special vs the 9mm. I have loaded for the 38 special for a while now. Have good loads and enjoy the process of casting a 158gr SWC and loading it up so I can go shoot it and do it all over again:-D!!! I have several good 35/357 revos that I really enjoy loading/shooting.
I recently aquired a nice Ruger P89 9mm for a good deal, as in couldnt pass it up . Never loaded for a 9. Never cast for a 9. Gotta buy dies etc for the 9.
Before I go all out on supplies, I want to know the pros and cons of the 9. I know the capacity is twice that of the 38. Brass seems to be plentiful also. Boolits can be cast for the 9 just as the 38 can be. I will say this, if I cant find a cast load for it, it will go. I REFUSE to buy jackets for my pistol ammo. If I cant cast for it i dont want it. With the exeption of maybe factory defence ammo.
Tell it all to me brothers!!!
Jeff

[EDK]

My first pistol was a RUGER 357/9mm BLACKHAWK...eventually bought a 9 mm BROWNING HI POWER...back in 1972. No problems with loading for it...356402 worked well.

Now there are more boolits available and tooling such as taper crimp dies. I'd get the DILLON dies, etc and get busy. You may have to play with seating depth, powder charge and alloys, but I wouldn't consider that a big problem. I'd probably go with some kind of truncuated cone boolit like the LEEs.

BUY (HERESY!) some bullets that look like what you want and experiment a bit. Then get your mould---definitely a 4 or 6 cavity!--and get busy.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[rhead]

I have a a P85 and it likes the Lee truncated cone with the standard lube groove (haven't tried the tumble lube twin) sized to .358, It also shoots the seaco 929 (147 grain) bullet as cast .357. Mine has no pressure signs wit the book max loads but gives the best accuracy with a little below max.
The 9 can be loaded with cast but reloading it requires more attention to details since the small size of the case will magnify the effect of any errors.
Good Luck.

[Boerrancher]

I have one of the original P-85s and it is a good shooter with AA#5 and the Lee TC 120 gr boolit. I don't remember the wt of the powder charge now, but it was just a hair bit below the max listed load. With that being said, I haven't had the P85 out of the case to shoot in an 15 or more years. The 9mm is not what I consider to be one of the best pistol rounds out there. It works but it is marginal. They can be fun to play with though if you like to burn lots of powder. I grew up some and lost interest in large capacity mags and blasting away, but that is just me, as I am sure there are many people who do enjoy that type of shooting.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Firebricker]

Jeffery 8, I've tried a few different powders with the 9mm theres not much case room so if you want full power loads try Power Pistol. My particular 9mm likes 147gr boolits a lot better than the lighter stuff. I used the lee 120 tc and it was allright but have settled on rcbs
147 gr over a charge of P.P. Unique did ok but only enough case capacity for light loads. There's lots of good powders but I mostly stick to alliant. As far as the cons watch out for berdan primers and crimped primers. Good luck which ever you decide FB

[MT Gianni]

I had a P-85 and the 2nd happiest day with it was the day I sold it. The 9 gives you cheap brass. Mine would group best with the 356402 over enough Herco to reach 1200 fps. It would cut that in half with jacketed reloads and factory was smaller yet. A rather humbling experience. I now own a CZ75 and a Taurus Millennium Pro 3" both of which out shoot the Ruger. I hope that yours does better than mine. The double action pull made me think that there was an extra safety I had not yet found. SA was ok while the DA improved but was still rough.

[monadnock#5]

I like Lyman products for a bunch of calibers, but especially for 9mm. 356402, 358242 and 356647 are all good boolits. The newer Lyman manuals provide lots of load data AND OAL specs for each profile.

While I agree that 9mm was, is and ever shall be a marginal round, I justify their ownership with the idea that I can put twice as many down range for the same amount of WW, when compared to a .45ACP. Any trigger time is time well spent.
:castmine:

[S.R.Custom]

I've had several 9mms over the years, everything from Berettas to S&W 39s. Even did a Ruger Blackhawk with the convertible cylinder for a spell. And the problem I kept running into was the fact that the 9mm cartridge is just... uninspiring.

And not because I didn't try. With each new 9mm purchase, I'd get all excited, work up new loads --some for power, some for accuracy-- accurize the gun (as much as one can), and generally try to find some purpose the 9mm would singularly excell at. I was to be disappointed each and every time.

9mm pistols were never designed to be target guns, so accuracy could never be elevated to a level beyond frustrating. Power is lacking-- minimally more powerful than a .380, and in its emasculated domestic loading, not even half way to a factory .45 round. And considering the size of the round itself, 9mm pistols are friggin' HUGE. Why? (It seems to me the 9mm round would be perfect for, say, the Walther PPK.)

So with each new 9mm purchase, there would be this flurry of activity, followed by a rapid onset of boredom, and the bugger would then sit untouched in the gun room for six months until it got traded off for something else. I finally learned my lesson about 7 years ago, and I haven't bought a 9mm since. (Unless it was a bargain and I could make money on it. In which case I would run through a box of my old reloads --I still have a bunch from like 15 years ago-- and I'd remember just how excruciatingly dull the 9mm is.)

So to make a long story that much longer, the 9mm is just boring. My advice to you is to play with it, run through a few boxes of factory ammo, and if after a few months you're still enthralled, THEN dump a bunch of money into the care and feeding...

[Echo]

Don't know where you got the idea that the 9 has twice the case capacity of the .38. Not true. Maybe the opposite...

I have a Ruger BH convertible in .38/.357, with a 9mm cylinder. Thought it was a good idea at the time, since surplus ammo was so blasted cheap back then. Problem is, the .355 bullet rattles down the .357 bore, and .358-sized boolits won't chamber. But I digress...

I personally have no use for a 9, but my neighbor uses the round occasionally in a combat match where the power factor is low enough to allow the use of a 9. Now that I think about it - can't really think of any reason why I would want one.

I guess I haven't helped you much. Listen to the guys above...

[HeavyMetal]

Supermag has the size issue with 9's correct! Most are three times the size they need to be! I am also sure it's so they can take advantage of double stack mags.

In this size pistol you may as well have a 40, a 45, a 357 sig, a 9 x23 this list can go on but I think we get the direction I'm going.

Now if you shrink this pistol down to the correct size, sadly no American firm has seen fit to do so, you find that Stars usually fill the bill from old Bm and BK's to the single stack Firestar's !

You now get a pistol that takes up no more space than a model 36 or Dick Special, with decent grips on it, and you get two to three more rounds in the gun plus a reload speed that can never be equaled with a wheel gun! With decent loads it is every bit as good if not better than the 38 special, but here Supermag is also correct: they are not target guns!

I have only shot two 9's that could be considered "target" guns the ill fated Browning Hi Power "comp gun" which had a huge problem keeping the barrel weight / comp from splitting everytime you took the barrel out and the Sig P 210 which was mechanically sound but just slightly less expensive than the current federal budget!

I actually got to shoot the Sig on 3 or 4 outings and was absolutely amazed at it's accuracy!

Just like my Model 52 Smith if one ever comes to me at a price I think is realistic I will buy it!

If you have realistic expectations of accuracy with your P89 you won't be disapointed, if you expect it to shoot like a Gold Cup...buy some ******.

[Bret4207]

I've had several 9mms over the years, everything from Berettas to S&W 39s. Even did a Ruger Blackhawk with the convertible cylinder for a spell. And the problem I kept running into was the fact that the 9mm cartridge is just... uninspiring.

And not because I didn't try. With each new 9mm purchase, I'd get all excited, work up new loads --some for power, some for accuracy-- accurize the gun (as much as one can), and generally try to find some purpose the 9mm would singularly excell at. I was to be disappointed each and every time.

9mm pistols were never designed to be target guns, so accuracy could never be elevated to a level beyond frustrating. Power is lacking-- minimally more powerful than a .380, and in its emasculated domestic loading, not even half way to a factory .45 round. And considering the size of the round itself, 9mm pistols are friggin' HUGE. Why? (It seems to me the 9mm round would be perfect for, say, the Walther PPK.)



Better run for the hills SM!!!!!! I said the same thing a few years back and there ended up being a multiple page war with insults, debauchery, and general malcontent dripping from each line. What ever you do, don't ever mention "The Skeeter Load" in a 38 Special in the war that may well follow.

Let the blood letting commence!:mrgreen:

[Ricochet]

The "Skeeter Load" is pretty much just the 38/44. Old, old news.

[square butte]

SuperMag, The only inspiring thing I could find to shoot 9mm out of is a Colt Combat Commander, which i was very fortunate to come across and aquire. Seems to digest just about anything i put in the magazine. Yes, it's large, but not as large as my 5906 - which doesn't get taken out of the barn too much. My 9mm Colt is just one of my favorite to shoot, especially if you dont count all of my other favorites.

[Jeffery8mm]

Don't know where you got the idea that the 9 has twice the case capacity of the .38. Not true. Maybe the opposite...

I have a Ruger BH convertible in .38/.357, with a 9mm cylinder. Thought it was a good idea at the time, since surplus ammo was so blasted cheap back then. Problem is, the .355 bullet rattles down the .357 bore, and .358-sized boolits won't chamber. But I digress...

I personally have no use for a 9, but my neighbor uses the round occasionally in a combat match where the power factor is low enough to allow the use of a 9. Now that I think about it - can't really think of any reason why I would want one.

I guess I haven't helped you much. Listen to the guys above...



Never said "case capacity". I was refering to ammo capacity. 5 or 6 vs 12 to 15 rounds.

Thanks for all the replies and opinions guys. I really have a thing for a 38/357.:-D I may use this for trade fodder toward a SP101 or so!!!
Jeff

[Old Ironsights]

...Thanks for all the replies and opinions guys. I really have a thing for a 38/357.:-D I may use this for trade fodder toward a SP101 or so!!! Jeff
Good idea. SP101's are a tad heavy, but accurate and will handle .357 Heavy Rifle Loads if necessary or one happens to find its way into your pocket accidentially

If you need spray & pray, it's easier & cheaper to BUILD a 9mm than buy one... [smilie=1: :twisted:

[Randall]

In a carry gun a 3913 is hard to beat in the summer. Small light and flat. Get some good ammo and I bet it will get the bad guys attention.Not a target gun by any means,a Hi Power works for that, but shoots accurate enough and is reliable.
Randall

[GabbyM]

Calibers aside. When I was young and wild I couldn't understand why anyone would want to shoot a revolver over an auto. Around the time I looked over my shoulder at forty. I started wondering why anyone would want to crawl around on their hands and knees picking brass up from the ground. Then theirs that little blister on your finger from loading magazines.

For a sporting firearm the 9mm's don't hold a candle to a nice revolver IMO.

[S.R.Custom]

Better run for the hills SM!!!!!! I said the same thing a few years back and there ended up being a multiple page war with insults, debauchery, and general malcontent dripping from each line...

I'm not worried. You'll note that I made no mention of the 9mm's inadequacy for bear hunting. [smilie=1:

[Bret4207]

The "Skeeter Load" is pretty much just the 38/44. Old, old news.

Ah, old news now, but just a few years ago it seemed no one had ever heard of it!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=3770&highlight=skeeter+load

[Bret4207]

I'm not worried. You'll note that I made no mention of the 9mm's inadequacy for bear hunting. [smilie=1:

Well, we all have our days, eh?:mrgreen:

[GrizzLeeBear]

I've only had 3 9mm's, 2 pistols and 1 carbine, but have the same feeling as Supermag. Tried working up loads with cast and jacketed, but never got better than mediocre results. Sold or traded them.

On the other hand my Ruger GP100 (.357) is easy to get excellent accuracy, from mild to wild loads. Its not going anywhere.

[KCSO]

Biggest difference between the 38 and the 9 is that when you shoot the 38 you come home with brass!
I would guess that I have put over 10,000 rounds of cast through various 9 mm's with no problems. Bullseye and Unique are both good powders. The Lee T/C bulllet has worked well in everything from as Luger to a Sig. I qualify every month with both a Highpower and a 1911 and the only time I ever shoot jacketed is when i burn up my duty ammo twice a year.

[helice]

It's been fun to read the comments on the 9s. I've had a few of them and generally agree with the masses here. I gave a S&W 3913 type to a nephew 15 years ago. Randall I agree that it was a great carry piece but I couldn't get used to that sponge bob trigger. I've had a number of Berreta GI types in 9 and 380 but to me that slide mounted safety is just backwards and wrong. Like MT Gianni, I could not wait to get shed of the Ruger P and never shed a tear at our parting. Right now I have one 9mm. Its the Taurus 99 and SuperMag is right. That thing is 3X bigger than it needs to be. But It has a frame mounted safety and if the country goes to the gang bangers ( hey, I'm in California) 9mm ammo may be the only thing readily available so I still have one. This one likes the Lee Truncated Cone and Blue Dot. Keep Writin' guys, Im' Learnin. Helice

[Jeffery8mm]

Thanks guys. I am gonna give it a go with the 9 and cast reloading. I figure if it will hit my 6" steel at 15 to 20 yards, it will be a blast. And I will have a high capacity pistol if need be. 3 mags = 45 rounds!!!
Jeff

[S.R.Custom]

Thanks guys. I am gonna give it a go with the 9 and cast reloading. I figure if it will hit my 6" steel at 15 to 20 yards, it will be a blast.

Now that you mention it, that's one thing my 9mm Beretta was good for... It was the heavy slide variant known as the Brigadier, and between the weight of the gun, the comp I had on the barrel, and the powder-puff loads I put through it, it was an unholy terror at the steel plate matches...

The load I used for that particular event was a 125 gr. TC sized .358" cast bullet (groove diameter on the Berettas is .357") loaded over 3.0 grs. of 231. And yeah, I had to lighten the recoil spring a bit.

[SCIBUL]

Hello.
I've had 3 9mm pistols and must agree with those who sait that these firearms are NOT involved with accuracy. I don't like the feeling of factory ammo and reloads are difficult to develop on the accuracy side. From what I've seen, internal bores dimensions are very scattered and the rifling twist turns too fast. The only gun who could present some interest to me would be a COLT 1911 (16" twist).