Boat Tail cast bullet with Driving Band?

[303Guy]

Hi Folks, this is my first post on this forum. I have been developing a heavy cast boolit for my 303Brit. This boolit has no lube grooves but carries the lube on the suface. I have discovered that a boat tail bullet has a neat place for lube - on the boat tail taper! So, the question is;

Is there any reason not to cast a bullet with an exposed lead boat tail and a copper or brass driving band just at the boat tail/shank junction?

The boolit;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-353F_edited.jpg

Fired boolits;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-351F_edited.jpg

The loaded boolit;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-338F_edited.jpg

First test;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg
This was only at 45m. All the shots fired landed in the same relative area and were close together like the above.

The muzzle star;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-453F_edited.jpg
In the pic it looks like a dry, grey deposit but that is actaully light reflection on the lube deposit. The lube is a waxy-lube that I make and must be melted to apply. The bore was clean and shiney at the end of the session.

:drinks:

Regards
303Guy

[beagle]

Interesting concept and may work. I'd say that the base band acts as a GC and would tend to seal the bore and prevent blowby and leading if your lube is doing its job and apparaently it is. IMO, it's the corner of the bullet where lead meets the barrel where the GC is important.

My old shooting partner that has left the range experimented with a GC'd "smoothie" with no driving bands. It was lubed with impact coated moly. He got good accuracy out of a .308 Encore at velocities of around 2800 FPS with no leading in a hand lapped barrel.

I tried some in my Number 1 .30/06 and got leading up the wazoo so my barrel must have been rougher than his was.

It's a good experiment. Keep us posted as to sucess/failures as you go along. You might be on to something./beagle

[303Guy]

The trick would to make sure the base band does not come off and stay in the bore!

Initially, I was casting the hollow into the bullet but gave that up and instead went to swaging it in. the idea there was to use the mould as a swage die and the nose punch to swage the bullet up a little. Its esier that way.

This is how I did the cast hollow point;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-196F_edited.jpg

And the swaged hollow point;
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-346F_edited.jpg

[Bret4207]

Am I missing something? I don't see a boat tail, I see a gas check. As for the experimental concept, the lead driving band might work, a naked boat tail probably won't based on past experiments along the same line.

[longbow]

I made a push out mould that casts a very similar boolit but no boattail ~ just bore riding nose and groove diameter body, 215 gr.

Seems to shoot quite well and leading hasn't been a problem though I generally use COW filler.

I have not tried but have read that boattail lead boolits do not perform well. Not sure of the reason but would guess that blow by may be an issue. Having said that I have an article by Dan Theodore about paper patched boattails that didn't work too well. Shouldn't be blow by there.

Anyway, I digress. My thought was that unless you have a reluctance to use filler as many do then the boattail over a fillered load may do well even without the copper driving band. I have found the fillered loads work well for me and generally get better accuracy and little if any leading.

I have been using both ACWW and oven heat treated over up to 13 grs. of Unique and COW filler. I have also loaded over IMR 4227 (22 grs. IIRC), 4064 (30+ grs. IIRC) and 4198 (24 grs. IIRC) in the same manner all successfully and little leading. I would have to check back on exact powder charges. Can't see why your boattail boolit wouldn't work loaded the same way.

Longbow

[runfiverun]

303.
nice to see you over here....
i have been following the development of your boolit on the other forum.

[docone31]

I do wonder of the merits of a boattail in a casting.
I could see it working if the transition of the main body had a solid edge, then becomeing a boattail.
From what I have read, a boattail is relatively unaffective under 600yds. The velocities we push these loads, I also wonder the merits of it.
That is just me, with my mind wrapping on this.
In regard to your question,
If you cast through a gas check, making it a band, then haveing a boattail, I could see where it would work. However, the flying ashtray might negate any possible advantages.
What I really like the looks of, is the rifleing is not showing any dragging. The recovered boolitts show well defined rifleing.
Even though if it did not have an hollow point however, I am not sure a boattail would be of an advantage.
From the lack of keyholes at 45m, or approximately 100yds here, I would say you are on to a good looking working design. The hollow point looks intimidating indeed!
For a boattail to make the extra work worth it, I might consider pushing the casting faster. Possibly adding bands midway up the casting.
It looks like a lot of work though.
Looking at the shoulder in the photo, perhaps rechambering in the .303 Epps.
I donno, I just am not sure the speed the casting flies warrants a boattail.
Looks real good the way it is.

[303Guy]

Thanks for all the interest! :drinks:

Thank you, runfiverrun.

Bret4207, this is an idea I may want to develope.

longbow, sounds like you had the same idea! I'd be interested to know how you did yours?

docone31, my chamber is rather unique! It is a No.4 barrel fitted to my No.1 MkI* action. The chamber had to be reamed a little to get the case in and that was the shape of the reamer. Brilliant isn't it?

There is no ballistic advantage to a boat tail at all, in fact, it might lengthen or lighten the bullet too much. The idea is only to carry lube. My mould is a push out design with nose casting. It has a taper that sort of matches the shape of the throat. The base diameter is larger than groove diameter - so large that I have to expand the neck to get it in! The way I cast is to expand a gas check then insert it into the base of the mould with a seating tool then heat the mold in the melting pot until the gas check discolours. After casting, I break off the sprew with pliers. I then push the bullet out and do the next one. Finally, I lube the bullets and put them back into the mould and swage the hollow point.

This is quite a laborious process, so I was thinking of using a cupped shaped bottom plug that simultaniously inserted the base band. I would then be able to keep the mould hot enough for continueous casting. If I could leave out the band then all the better.

A new idea is to make boat tail gas checks which would fit the cast boat tail and simple swage into the bullet. The trouble with casting the gas check in place is it needs to be hot. (Unless they are made from copper and have been tinned on the inside in which case they can be used cool but the lead must be hot enough).

The load I have tested so far (the one that that produced the 'group') is;

220gr gas checked cast hollow point WW plus all kinds of scrap lead
35.5gr Varget/AR2208 (no filler)
OAL 76mm (3")

The test bullets shown earlier were fired using H4227/AR2205 at lower pressure so as to be able to capture the bullets intact.

No idea what the velocity is but pressure is relatively mild. It's a real sweet load to shoot!

Now about the filler that has been suggested - I have this idea of using a lubed filler to achieve the same ends. The filler would not be able to cause 'ringing' since it would be held up against the bullet by the powder charge. Would this idea prevent gas cutting thus eliminating the need of the gas check?

this is what the hollow point did on a wet pack. Velocity was quite low.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-384F_edited.jpg
You can see the lead was too cool!

Oh, in case anyone is wondering why I want such a heavy for caliber bullet - I want to hunt with cast bullets in my 1902 sporterized Lee Enfield.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-244F_edited-2.jpg


Gas check placed backwards and held on by tinning the 'inside'.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-360F_edited.jpg

[longbow]

Here is a photo of a recovered 215 gr. shot from my .303. In this case, I "knurled" it with a tool I made to roll small annular rings into the boolit for lube but have shot many as cast.

It is a 2 diameter like the Lyman 314299 and runs 0.306" at the nose and 0.316" for the body (about the same length as the driving bands on a Lyman 314299).

So far they seem to shoot well.

Longbow

[docone31]

.303guy, that is a beautiful rifle! I like full furniture, but, your looks like it works.
My Smelly likes the larger boolitts in lead loads.
They are a good rifle to shoot.

[303Guy]

Thank you, docone31. I made that stock - African Walnut. London Oil finish!

longbow, that boolit looks a lot like mine! Yours has a better nose. No gas check! What velocity do you get with it, if I may ask? I see the 'bore riding' part has partially engraved the rifling, just like mine do and your base diameter is like mine too! No sign of smearing either. How is your rifle's bore? Mine is like brand new. Well, it did get a few hundred MkVIII machinegun rounds through it once!:( (Military sponsored shoot and that's what they gave us). I didn't know what it was and just went about shooting the stuff off. Oh well, it didn't do too much damage! My bullets are tapered from the nose to near the base, being .304 just behind the nose and ending up as .317 just before the gas check. Are yours base cast or nose cast?. How do you push yours out the mould?

I am about to cast a 'base band' bullet but still with a flat base. (Will have to make the 'boat tail' base plug).

:drinks:

[docone31]

.303guy, you carved that stock?
Wowser!
Mine came with original military uniform. It was issued in Australia, and the owner had it untill he died. His son got it, left it in a shed full of humidity for 8yrs. He was gonna throw it out, he gave it to me instead.
I had so much rust in the bore, I paper patched .005 small and lapped it with Clover Lapping Compound. 18rds, and it shone like a mirror!
Wonder, have you considered cutting the center out of a gas check and pouring through it half way up the casting? You seem good at installing gas checks in an hot mold, that would give you two copper bands on the bore. Might be able to push it harder.
That hollow point looks like it does some damage.

[longbow]

I base pour and use one of several methods for nose form and ejection.

I started out using a full diameter boolit all the way to the nose radius and made a sliding nose form which also pushes the boolit out.

Then I decided to make a 2 diameter boolit so made the sliding nose form to suit the bore riding nose section but otherwise the same.

Then I decided that it might be better to make a reamer that cut the whole boolit profile and use just a small nose "tip" ejector ~ the boolit photo is one of those and you can see a small ring near the nose which is the edge of the ejector.

I have also made hollow point moulds and used the hollow pointer as the ejector.

The benefit of sliding nose form is that the weight of the boolit can be changed without making a new mould simply by spacing the nose form deeper or shallow for casting.

One of the moulds I made is shown here in post #9:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=18991&highlight=longbow

This is the latest redition and I used an old body bored to accept 3/4" round bar so the 3/4" round bar becomes the reamed mould. Makes it really easy to make up several different styles to try without having to make a sprue plate and handle, etc. Just chuck up a piece of 3/4" bar, face, drill and ream.

This one looks a little crude as I haven't finished it up and the handle is old and burned... but it works just fine.

Longbow

[303Guy]

I had so much rust in the bore, I paper patched .005 small and lapped it with Clover Lapping Compound. 18rds, and it shone like a mirror!
This I need to know more about! I cleaned out rust scale between the rifling of two rifles and got a reasonable bore out of one of them (one of those heart ache stories of a virtual brand new No4's that had hardly been fired, left to rust in the bore! Damn! The other is an old Long Tom that I want to open up to 375 and shorten, for use with cast bullets for heavy bush hunting).

The butt piece on my 303 was already roughed when I got it so I didn't have to shape the butt socket and bore the bolt hole. The fore-end was from a rough block of wood. It took ages to do the whole thing! The scope mount is a bit unusual, I think.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-247F_edited.jpg


Making holes in a gas check .... mmmm. That's an idea! I tried a brass washer a short while ago and while it might have worked in principle, I couldn't get the bullet out the mould!:mrgreen: I've melted it out and have just recast with a normal gas check. I have more than one prototype mould ruined like that! I will rescue this one - it's the one that produced the bullets that produced that group! Trouble is, this mould was not made by a reamer and cannot easily be reproduced!

[Bret4207]

Thanks for all the interest! :drinks:

Thank you, runfiverrun.

Bret4207, this is an idea I may want to develope.



Now I see. IMO any bevel or boat tail is just another place to gain multiple imperfections unless you did as you suggested and made a gas check in the shape you need. And if you use it to carry lube then you have to make sure it doesn't migrate to and contaminate the powder.

What the heck, have at it. It might work great. Never know till you try.

[303Guy]

I should mention that the lube I use (which I call waxy-lube) is a mix of alox, candle wax and STP. It can only migrate when melted. I 'developed' this stuff to use as a bullet seating 'stuff' for my paper cup bullet seats I use in my 22 hornet with jacketed bullets. The same idea works in the 303 Brit but with the cast bullet being so large, there is no room for the paper cup. It does not hold the bullet firm enough for use in a magazine.

Clever mould design longbow.:drinks:
I have thought of a similar base plate, even with a sprew but then I thought the irregularities I might get around the edge of the base might be a potential source of innacuracy. A t the moment, I insert a gas check with a tool that seats it to a depth that controls the bullet weight. The insert tool is machined so any changes require a new one. The adjustable nose idea would work for me as an adjustable base seat.

My next design will have a base plug that clamps into the mould tightly against a seat, so that the base junction is away from the trailing edge. This is where the boat tail idea comes in. Another consideration with the boat tail is that the rifling impressions cannot disturb the trailing edge. Well, that was my thinking anyway.

[Cap'n Morgan]

303guy,

Let me get this straight; you're using the gascheck upside down? If so, perhaps you should look into a "H" shape gascheck design. I did an experiment a while ago, swaging gaschecks from .05" copper sheet, using a cheap Chinese eight ton bottle jack as press. Compared to drawing, swaging takes much more pressure, and the eight ton jack was barely enough, but I did manage to make a couple of discs.

This is what you check could look like:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5111/gascheck.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gascheck.jpg)

This is just a basic cut-view sketch of the gascheck, but you'll get the idea. A die and a top+bottom form-punch. If you're interested I can help you with a few pointers

[docone31]

.303Guy.
Here is what I did.
I started out casting. Undersized miserable things they were. I had one of those bores that finals out at .314. Pondering on whether to hang it over the door for a look see, or just junk it, I read about paper patching.
I had the mold, C312/185R from Lee Precision. I started a thread on the paper patching section, more or less trying to see if anyone has done it.
Yeppir, they have done it.
Beemer advised I size the prime casting to .308, then wrap. I did. I used traceing paper and got .313. Too small, I got the same groups as with casting. 20min of Berm if lucky.
I tried three wraps of the same paper and got .3135. Same deal, just much closer to POI. I figuired I was on the path.
I noticed, the bore was shiney, where it had rust. The paper was polishing/burnishing the rust. Accuracy was still miserable, and unpredictable.
I have some fine Lapping Compound. I am also a lapidariast. I had stopped wasting ammo, and had 18loaded patched loads still. I went home with them, lightly smeared on some Lapping compound. I mean real light, no gobs.
Next day at the range, I fired them off. Dead on POI! I grouped at 100yds in the 9 ring.
That gave me my final size. .314. That is two wraps of notebook paper, sized to .314. Three wraps of traceing paper was just too light.
Well, my barrel had rust, and hammer marks. The hammer marks were gone, and I haven't seen rust since. Just a good clean bore with sharp rifleing marks.
I guess I fire lapped the bore, only useing low pressure firelapping. Not the copper jacketeds that have grit impregnated on them.
Since, I have fired over 500rds, many groups in the 10 ring at 100yds. This is a Smelly in full battle dress. My rifle came with the bayonette lugs missing, and bayonette lug missing on the bottom of the nosecap. It also came with a factory cheek piece, and original scope mount.
So, that is what I did.
The grit impregnated on the patch gave me a by-gosh by-golly sizing point, which I use today. When I fire jacketeds, I use those that are sized .312. .311, I might as well be throwing rocks.
So, I have a full wood #1MKIII that prints serious groups. I did a three point bedding job, many coats of Tung Oil. She glows.
If I had only one rifle, she would be it. Perhaps the sweetist fireing rifle I have ever had.

[303Guy]

Let me get this straight; you're using the gascheck upside down? Cap'n Morgan, I only made a few of those and fired one into my test tube. The trailing edge took on a bottle top shape. It might work but is too much trouble.

"H" shape gascheck design.Now that's an idea! Your design has that slight 'boat tail' over the cup so that gas pressure will not force it out but the great thing is that the rifling is terminated on a shallow angle, leaving the trailing edge undamaged! I could easily build a 20 tonne press for such a project. I think it is brilliant! Is there any reason you did not persue this concept? I would indeed be interested in a few pointers!

docone31, I have only used medium grinding paste as a lapping compound and found it does no damage to the bore but neither does it polish it. The bores in question had rust between the lands so I machined up some brass 'lapping bullets'. These were intended to force the abrasive into the grooves. That part worked. All the scale came out and no doubt the rough, bullet scraping edges were dulled a bit too. So, next step is to learn paper patching then lapp the way you did! Thanks for the input.

One of my 'lapping bullets'.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-548F.jpg
The front bit is to ride the bore and keep the whole thing true, the next bit is an error and the last stage held the abrasive within the case neck and was sized at .317. This particular rifle has a very bad bore and is destined to be bored out to 375. Next project - 375/303. That I will be boring and rifling myself. Should be fun!:mrgreen: OOps! That's not the bullet from the 'bad' bore. This one still had some sharp rifling!

[docone31]

.303Guy.
Looks good.
I suspect paper doing the lapping, it is compressed into the hard corners along with some grit. The paper also polishes by itself.
.375/303. I like the idea. The .303 has a lot of potential.
Back in the '80s, I made a barrel for a smokepole I was building. I did the whole thing. Took 1/4" square stock, forged it over a mandrel, then went the opposite direction. I straightened the barrel, drawfiled the flats, then made a reamer and rifled it. I had found some old books on how to and proceeded to learn why we now have machines!
My reamer, I built a bench that had an heavy wheel with a wood dowel. On the end I made a reamer to spin and clean the bore to size. I shimmed the reamer with paper. Amazing stuff.
My rifleing machine, I got a very large timber, square, and laid a string in the rifleing twist. I routed out the groove. I then made a six post head to hold the timber. The rifleing tool was a dowel with a jewelers file on the end. I pushed the tool, it turned to the groove going in and out of the bore.
I needed to have made many barrels to have one that worked. I never fired it, although, I did get a bore, and rifleing! I was not confidant on my forgeing skills. When I threaded the end, the threads had defects that showed, so I kinda put that to a job to say I had done it.
I am a jeweler, not a blacksmith, although a lot of the skills are similiar. Mainly, I got to do some of the old school stuff. Dirty, hot, but satisfying. I hand dovetailed my sights and escutions. Learned a lot that I apply today in my shop.
A nice lapping tool. I might have made it out of steel rather than brass though. Also, longer so the bore machined itself straight.
I do love mental machineing miracles! I so admire the mold work I see on the forum here.
Sweet looking Enfield!
Bet it is going to talk loudly in .375!
They sure have potential.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Is there any reason you did not persue this concept? I would indeed be interested in a few pointers!

303Guy,

I did the sketch after I read your post.. A picture is worth a thousand words and all that [smilie=1: Personally, I think I stay with the more traditional gascheck design - like the brass one, discussed here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=45542&page=4

As for the pointers, this drawing pretty much says it all:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5111/gascheck.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gascheck.jpg)

The discs should be annealed to cherry red, and tumbled to remove the scale. (In "Cartridge Manufacture" from 1916 they recommend tumbling in warm water with half a percent sulphuric acid added)

Both the die and the punches should be polished to aid the copper flow. Avoid sharp corners. You may want to add taper to the top punch to avoid the check sticking. A spring-loaded ejector plunger can be build into the top punch. Use a good lubricant.

If you want to give it a try, let me know what the dimensions are, and I'll calculate the thickness of the basic disc.

[303Guy]

docone31, the 375/303 project is on another rifle with a real rusted bore that I bought for the project. It is have a short barrel for bush hunting and the larger bore to make use of the case capacity. I chose 375 because that requires no case body changes - just opeing up the neck. I have done a few cases and all I have to deal with is the 'dough-nut'. I might leave it in place and use it as a bullet seat but it would prevent the use of a lubed wad.

Cap'n Morgan, thanks for taking the trouble! What would it take to design a punch system that produces the conventional cup in one step from the sheet copper?

I am doing a little thinking here - it sounds like using a filler might eliminate the need for the gas check. My original idea was to use a boat tail to carry a waxy-lube 'wad' and the reason for wanting to do it that way is the short neck of the 303 Brit. But if I were to use a lube soaked filler .... ? My powder charge leaves a small space in the case so such a filler should compress behind the bullet to form a wad. The load I use produces moderate pressure but theoretically after the bullet has entered the bore some, so 'ringing' of the chamber should not be an issue.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Cap'n Morgan, thanks for taking the trouble! What would it take to design a punch system that produces the conventional cup in one step from the sheet copper?

A little more complicated than the two-step process, but absolutely doable. Basically, the top (or bottom) punch is hollow and the drawing of the cup takes place inside the punch after the disc has been stamped out. A step in the hollow punch strip the check from the drawing die on the return stroke.

[docone31]

Sodium Bisulphate, pool ph reducer is good pickle for removeing firescale.
Do not however allow ferrous anything to be in contact with it. It turns it into a plateing solution.
Heated, it is very effective.

[303Guy]

.303Guy.
... Back in the '80s, I made a barrel for a smokepole I was building. I did the whole thing. ....That is very interesting, docone31. You hammer forged the barrel from square bar? Holy cow! That must have taken some doing! It must have been real satisfying having done it! As we say here - Good on ya, mate!:drinks:

[303Guy]

A little more complicated than the two-step process, but absolutely doable.What worried me about the two step process is handling the tiny little flat discs!

Thinking on the comment that a boat tail lead base bullet could obturate under the stress of firing, perhaps I should count on a gas check of one form or the other being unavoidable for higher velocity cast bullet shooting.

[docone31]

I will tell you what was satisfying.
Makeing the rifleing! That was a trip.
It felt like magic. Hand reaming the bore, and pushing and pulling the rifleing rig. Shimming up the jewelers file to cut the depth. Each land reset easily.
Forgeing was hot, dirty, lots of work. I called it contrary damascus. That really went simply however. Steel is easy to work with.
I made a forge, made the bellows. They were two stage bellows. Up and down air flow.
Just something however, I can say I did.

[303Guy]

Wow! :drinks:
Do you have photos?

Looking at the 'H' gas check design - if the the outside shape were to be used with the conventional cup design, that would be just the ticket! The base eject mould could be designe with a small step for the gas check to sit against during casting followed with final swaging. My thinking with the swaging is that it fills the bullet out to proper size, thus compensating for small differences in shrinkage due to temp differences. My final objective is to cast a bullet slightly over weight and to swage out the excess. Theoretically, that should eliminate any defects in the bullet (and make it look nice).

[Cap'n Morgan]

My final objective is to cast a bullet slightly over weight and to swage out the excess. Theoretically, that should eliminate any defects in the bullet (and make it look nice).

Hey! I've been thinking along the same lines! Only I will try with a grease grove bullet for my 375. The plan is to cut a simple die using the same cherry I used for the mold. Of course the die will be without any grooves.

I hope, that if I size & lube the (gas checked) bullet beforehand, the lube will prevent the grooves from collapsing, but only time will tell. Anyway, the swaging pressure should only be high enough to produce a more uniform/straight bullet, and not so high as to bleed out excess lead.

[303Guy]

Of course the die will be without any grooves. ... the lube will prevent the grooves from collapsing, ...By that I assume you mean the lube grooves will get rolled in after. What about rolling the lube grooves in after swaging? Even bleeding off excess lead would still be in order (although I dare say not really necessary). Is there any reason not to 'crimp' the lube grooves in? They would be interupted but staggered so that the full circumference is lubed. Just a thought I have been toying with.

[Cap'n Morgan]

By that I assume you mean the lube grooves will get rolled in after.

No, I'm just looking for a quick'n' dirty way to improve ordinary cast bullets. A good squeeze in a die that fit the bullet's profile to a T should straighten out any kinks and bends, as well as reduce any internal shrinkage cavities (If such an animal exists)

[docone31]

Well, I found in my paper patching journey, sizing to patch, useing Lee Sizers in a large way smooths the bearing area of the boolitt.
Somehow, I make it sound like an epiphany, the obvious, but, I really size down. Useing the sizer dies seems to make the boolitts all become consistant, eliminating the bends, defects, etc., without the expense of swageing dies.
If it is a crappy casting, nothing is going to remedy that short of a swage. However with what I have been doing, my boolitts look somewhat like what I would call a traditional patch casting.
If one makes a cherry, makeing it slightly larger, then down sizeing makes sense. This way, a standard C-press can do the trick without fuss.
Just food for thought.

[303Guy]

I found a suitable brass band to use as a driving or base band - brass eyelets! Now to go try them.

[docone31]

I never thought of that.
Definately looking foward to seeing process, and results.

[303Guy]

Well, tried the 'eyelet'. Had a few botches but finally got what I wanted - not perfect, mind you, but I don't have any more to try with so I shall have to show the imperfect one!:roll:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-566F.jpg
Note how I conveniently cropped the nose!:mrgreen: This one still has the gas check as that's what seals the mould. The new mould is still to come with a base sealing plug. (I am still working on my muzzle break/suppressor and 375/303 and a few other projects simultaneously so there may some delays!)[smilie=1:

[303Guy]

Well, I test fired this bullet. The velocity was a bit high for the capture and it broke off at the 'base band'. I recoverd the front section - pretty mangled - and the gas check. I also did a test on a bullet that lost it's gas check. This one got a waxy-lube wad. The rocovered bullet indicates no flame cutting, but - the base shows obturation! So, I am thinking that the base is going to need to be stronger for the velocity I want.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-568F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-570F.jpg