Herter's

[Boerrancher]

I was looking at some of the boxes of bullets I have sitting around in the reloading room and found a partial box of 308 dia 168 gr Herter's match bullets. I noticed on the box it read "The worlds largest manufacture of reloading equipment". It got me to thinking about the annual trips by the Herter's Store on our way to Wyoming when I was a Kid. I loved playing on the giant gorilla that was out side the store. You could climb up the ladder and stand in its closed fist. They also had one of the greatest collections of mounted wildlife I have ever seen, much of which is now at the Bass Pro shop's World HQ in Springfield MO.

I was just a kid when Herter's closed up shop, so I don't know much about why they went out of business. I just find it hard to believe that seemingly over night the worlds largest manufacturer of reloading equipment closes up shop. They made good reloading presses, dies, and such. I have shot many a sub MOA group out of rifle barrels made by Herters. Their primers were great, not to long ago I shot up the last of the Herters primers that dad had bought back in the late 50's or early 60's.

How many of you have used Herters products in the past, or, are still using them today. I am still using a good number of their die sets, and have quite a few of the old shell holders for the Herters presses. I am curious as to how many of the Herter's products are still in use.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Glen]

Plain and simple, it was the 1968 Gun Control Act. Herters depended on the profit margin from their firearms sales to keep the rest of the business afloat, and the 1968 GCA sunk their business model.

[AZ-Stew]

Glen is absolutely right. I can remember catalogs 1" thick, then 1/2", then 1/4" then they just faded away. I wish I had kept a few of the catalogs. They'd make fun reading these days. It wasn't just the guns. The 68 Act prevented mail order sales of bullets, powder and primers. Along with the guns, there wasn't much left to render a profit. I would like to have tried some of their "Wasp-Waist" .22 bullets. Just for the sake of knowing whether they had any advantage over other bullets. I still have an unopened Herters primer pocket brush.

Regards,

Stew

[carpetman]

Yip the 1968 act did em in--their catalog was the book of adjectives. Their duck decoys weighed 47 pounds each just to get all the names on them. Model perfect custom supreme deluxe world famous model. That was their short named you should hear the one with the long name. On page 13 the one with such and such is the ONLY one to get. On page 15--get this model don't waste money on the one with such and such.

[Shepherd2]

I started reloading on Herter's equipment back in the 60s. Loaded a lot of ammo on that massive brown Herter's press. I passed that outfit on to another reloader back in the 80s.

I wish I'd kept a copy of their catalog. They were a hoot to read and I spent hours doing that. They had the best of everything. Didn't matter if it was George's rifles or Bertha's pancake flour. It was the best and it said so right there in the catalog.

I sold a set of Herter's dies to a member here recently. Hopefully that is one Herter's product still in use.

[shooterg]

I turned 18 in 1968 - looked forward to being able to scrimp/save and mail order some guns - and they passed the damn GCA - with NRA blessing, as the FFL fee was supposed to be low enough for the average guy to get and continue buying "direct". We see how well that worked out.

[Boerrancher]

I still have boxes of mil surp rifles that my father bought years ago before the 68 GCA. I guess I need to open them up and see how they are doing. I remember how upset he was when they changed the laws so that he could no longer keep his FFL. The whole separate place with a separate entrance and posted hours did him and his friend Don in. They made some of the finest custom rifles here in the mid-west. From time to time I still see some of their work floating around gunshows, even as fare south and west as Tulsa OK. The Timney triggers, and Bhuler safeties, and other components largely purchased from Herter's. It saddens me to see the things I took for granted as a child no longer existing. I am not trying to turn this into a political topic, but I am going to ask this rhetorical question for all to think about. What the heck happened to my country?

Joe

[blackthorn]

Quote "What the heck happened to my country?"
The same thing that happend to mine!!
LIBERALS (here) DEMOCRATS in yours!

[Crooked Creek]

1967 was my first order to Herters. I bought reloading stuff (still have a few little items), fishing equipment (rod handles and blanks too), game calls (still have one) and even bought a pipe and tobacco (wish I still had the pipe!). I now have one of their "Model Perfect" recurve bows that I picked up "as new" about five years ago. George L. Herter was a master marketer that never, ever, let the truth get in the way of a good story or product claim ! Some of the things I purchashed over the years were very good...some, not so much. I did keep a couple of his catalogs and look at them every few years with fond memories. I was always envious of George's son...Jacques P. Herter with the photos of his worldwides exploits of hunting and fishing using, of course, "Model Perfect" equipment. The Central America jaguar photo had my mouth watering for one of those .401 Powermag pistols, but the '68 GCA law came in before I could order one...rats!!! Yep, Jacques P. was my hero and I wondered a few times over the years how he grew old, what he was doing after his dad's empire collapsed, and did he still have the financial capability to keep up his worldwide adventures. Then my bubble was burst, I read and article about George L. Herter where I found he never had a son...Jacques P. was another marketing fabrication that George used to "enhance" the lure of his products. Still don't know who was in all those photos, but it looked like he had a lot fun testing all the products. It's fun to reminisce once in a while, thanks for the thread.

[Hurricane]

I started reloading using Herter's press and dies. I still use a Herter's case chamfer tool and a powder funnel. I have Herter's cook books and guide manual on the bookcase. I had a Herter's bow and wish I still had it. I used Herter's knives and fishing equipment. He seemed to have everything anyone could possibly want. Reading the catalog was one of my favorite passtimes.

[NoDakJak]

I started loading with Herters equipment back in 1962 and still hve a bunch of their gear including two of their 9 Ton swaging presses. I still pick up a piece of their equipment now and then. Some of their stuff was a bit crudely made but usually serviceable and built to last a lifetime. Neil

[Bert2368]

A 1970's Herter's catalogue is at the summer cabin, along with a reprint of the 1938 Stoeger catalogue. I was just old enough to order fishing equipment from it before they went under... I still have some of the lures. My first pellet gun was a BSA from the Wasseca store, it's still in the gun room.

[454PB]

I have a bunch of Herter tools, including a pistol powder measure that I still use frequently and even a Herter .44 magnum revolver.

I believe I still have one of their 1" thick catalogs buried in my book treasury.

[Ben]

I ordered from their super thick catalog in 1967 , a Herter's J-9, 98' Mauser commercial action , .264 Win. Mag. rifle. It had a nice walnut stock with cut checkering, a fine rifle. $89.00

The mailman handed me the box and said " Here's your rifle.".

Those were the " Good Ole' Days ! "

Ben

[JDL]

Still use some of their plastic ammo boxes and a resizing die. Also have a box of .250 brass made by Norma Presision.

[cobbmtmac]

11921
Back when we ordered out of catalogs by mail, I ordered a blank stock for my Springfield Mark 1. It was for my first project at a evening Gunsmithing Class at Sacramento Jr. college in 1960. I bought the Spfd. at a Army/Navy store for $28.95

I wrote a letter along with the order, requesting the fanciest wood that they could provide me for the catagory that I could almost afford. They had I believe, a standard grade, a fancy, a double A fancy and a triple A fancy. I believe I stepped up to the Fancy, for around $28.00 including shipping. I must have touched someones heart as I received in my opinion was a grade or two higher as it definitely has "feathered crotch" wood.. The barrel channel was like 1/2 of a half inch dowel.

Since my hunting had slowed down after many many years, I decided a couple of years ago to refinish the wood and had it reblued. It is now semi retired. I will attempt to attach a picture or two. :coffee:

[Kraschenbirn]

Back in the 'good ol' days' that part of Minnesota must've been almost a shooter's paradise: Herter's at Waseca, Bonanza at Faribault, and Ahlman's Guns (their billboard on MN Hwy 60 still reads "Over 2000 guns in stock!") halfway in between.

I still use two sets of Herter's dies (one of which I recently acquired though our "Swappin' and Sellin" forum) and I just sold some Herters brass and bullets as a site benefit auction and, there's a small-ring Mauser in 7x57 that wears one of Herters sporter stocks in the cabinet.

Bill

[beemer]

Herter's never made anything that I know of but contracted it out to other companys. I still think they had some good stuff at a price you could afford. I wish I still had one of those pre 68 catalogs.

I started getting my reloading equipment together in 1970, that was the year I finished high school and Herter's was a big part of it. I still have every piece of it except the funnel which I stepped on.I have a big C press, case trimmer, powder measures and the other odds and ends. I don't use the press much anymore because of the lack of proper shellholders. I also have the big 12 ga. shotgun dies that have never been used. Other than the dies the only thing that was not Herter's was a set of Pacific oil dampened scales. Although don't need them I wouldn't mind having a nice set of Herter's scales just to finish up the set.

Thanks for bringing it up, takes me back to a good time.
beemer

[KCSO]

If I could have got my hands on George the voyager in about 1982 I would have strangled him! I was talked into buying a Herter's 15' Canoe. The darn thing was 1" thick solid fiberglasss. It was bullet proof, but it weighed about 200 pounds. Before i found a sucker to trade it to I had arms like Popeye. You would get down river in ti and then you sometimes had to DRAG it back upstream. My Herters 83 super press weighs 34 pounds stripped. Built for a liftime for sure!

[flounderman]

I used to go to herters to get stocks from them. the room in the back had barrels of stocks with imperfections. I got a springfield for 3.50, a birdseye mauser for 7.50, and a laminated one for a mauser for 15.00. I wish I could make that trip one more time. I had a friend shot in the first bench rest competitions. he tried some of the wasp waisted sonics. said the only thing wasted on them was his money. the u9 action was a bsa. the barrels could have been sako. you could get the dcm springfield for 15.00, all kinds of mausers and enfields from 30.00 on down. I don't know how much different the price is in wages per hour and dollar value. I worked for a dollar an hour back then. we definately had a better country back then

[TAWILDCATT]

I have the herter press and 2 universal die sets.22/25/26/30/31??cant remember them all.also regular dies and most shell holders.the powder scales had the measure but sold it yrs ago.had them glass a stock for a new g43.$25 if I remember right.C&H made some dies and presses,and I think lyman made the molds.I have a 6.5 and 45 acp.the prices for fishing gear was fantastic.I think it was fishing hooks by the 50/100 for a $1.00 or two.I think I have a few boxes.
gone but not forgotten,the sixgun was german and the rifles were mausers.the primers were euopean and the powder was also.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[TAWILDCATT]

I have the herter press and 2 universal die sets.22/25/26/30/31??cant remember them all.also regular dies and most shell holders.the powder scales had the measure but sold it yrs ago.had them glass a stock for a new g43.$25 if I remember right.C&H made some dies and presses,and I think lyman made the molds.I have a 6.5 and 45 acp.the prices for fishing gear was fantastic.I think it was fishing hooks by the 50/100 for a $1.00 or two.I think I have a few boxes.
gone but not forgotten,the sixgun was german and the rifles were mausers.the primers were euopean and the powder was also.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[Hardcast416taylor]

I still have 4 of their duck and goose calls "Glodo Model". My son ordered and got a 45 rpm record on calling ducks and geese. He said my way of calling was more like "stay away" calling. The record had general instruction on 1 side and a Jaque and George conversation in a blind hunting, supposedly - "Here they come" (quackquackquack) BOOM _ BOOM _ BOOM "Good shooting son you got them" "Get down here come some geese" more calling and shooting. I still have and use their crow calls, sound more like a ruptured crow - but brings them in. I lost my catalogs in a fire, wish I had 1 or 2 now to laugh at the stories and descriptions. Gun Cases, brass and bullets are all long gone. The primers and dies went in the fire. Did 1 stock of theirs for a `03 Springfield in fancy grade, lost that in the fire too, it was a real beauty and shooter.:(Robert

[TCLouis]

money I used to pore over the Herter catalog by the hour. So many perfect model things and so little money.

I even used GLH model perfect coil spring traps on a trap line.

My favorite rifle is in a Herter walnut stock

Still have that Herters 5'6" UL fishing rod though I now fish with a 7 foot UL rod.

Bought a box of 25 caliber Herter bullets a few years ago to sit in the bookcase . . . Only WISH that they were wasp waist style.

Heck I wax so nostalgic for them that I bought . . . Yes, BOUGHT a copy of one of the older, but best years older catalog.

Oh, did I mention that I still use that GLH Model Perfect 14" french chef knife

[AZ-Stew]

I forgot about the plastic ammo boxes I bought from them. If I recall, they were about $0.10 apiece in the early 70s. I still have dozens of slip top boxes for 30-06 size rifle, 44-45 cal pistol and 38-357 pistol. Not a one has ever failed, but the 38-357 boxes all had a manufacturing defect. After firing, the cases fit very tightly in one column of all the boxes, the third column of five from the end. That column was made about .020 too narrow. You can get the fired cases back in that column, but when you invert the box to remove the empties for reloading, that one column requires removing each cartridge separately with the fingernails. I guess I shouldn't complain. For what I paid for them, 35 years service and still going is a pretty good deal.

Regards,

Stew

[uncle joe]

I have a Herters powder measure I use instead of an rcbs uniflo sitting next to it and I also use a Herters scale instead of the 505 that resides close by. Love both of them, I wish they were still in business.
JE

[bruce drake]

I've got two Herter's boolit molds. One in 323 that is a spitzer that weighs out at 180gr in my WW alloy. The other is a 257 100gr Spitzer that I love and I am always on the look for other Herter molds.

Bruce

[StanDahl]

I used to spend hours poring over a 1969 Herters catalog. I found a copy on eBay a while back, then someone gave me an earlier (pre-1968) catalog along with some Stoegers from 1949 and 1950.
Here's a scanned Professional Guide Handbook from 1956 for your enjoyment:

http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o73/jstendahl/Herters%201956/

I hope this shows up big enough to be useful...click on each image to enlarge it.
Stan

[MT Gianni]

I bought an estate last year that had 18 250 savage shells with a Herters headstamp. They had been resized to 22-250 a great reminder of an era when Herters was King and the 22-250 had not been legitimized by remington yet.

[azrednek]

I lucked into an estate sale several years ago and got two boxes of Herter's tools and components. To give you an idea of the age there were partially full packs of primers with price tags ranging from 19-29 cents. I know it is not supposed to be discussed here but the Herter's brand half-jacket handgun bullets I got were remarkably accurate and a few I recovered mushroomed perfectly into a sand mound. I still have many of the tools buried in my junk boxes. If any of my modern stuff fails I wouldn't hesitate to use the Herter's tools and be confident they would do the job.

[bgokk]

I have a Herter's 17ft. square stern canoe that now badly needs the jell coat redone. I bought it for $100. used in excellent condition sometime in the early '60's. My wife and I have floated many Ozark rivers in south MO and north AR and taught 2 sons how to canoe using that old canoe.

I also have some of the cartridge boxes both rifle and pistol still in use.

My Herter's powder measure is no longer in use as the plastic powder chamber has deteriorated. I have to try and find another cylinder that will fit.

[Boerrancher]

I forgot about the plastic ammo boxes I bought from them. If I recall, they were about $0.10 apiece in the early 70s. Not a one has ever failed, but the 38-357 boxes all had a manufacturing defect. After firing, the cases fit very tightly in one column of all the boxes, the third column of five from the end. That column was made about .020 too narrow. You can get the fired cases back in that column, but when you invert the box to remove the empties for reloading, that one column requires removing each cartridge separately with the fingernails. I guess I shouldn't complain. For what I paid for them, 35 years service and still going is a pretty good deal.

Regards,

Stew

I am still using those same Herters 38/357 plastic boxes that Dad bought back in the early 60's. Being Born in 1970, and growing up with Herters products on the reloading bench, and in the field I thought that the 38/357 boxes were suppose to be that way. It never crossed my mind that it was a mfg defect. I was 7 years old when I was given a Marlin 1894 carbine in a 357mag and starting using the plastic boxes to keep my ammo in. As a 7 year old boy it would never have crossed my mind that Dad would give me something defective. I can't believe that 32 years later I am just now finding out that dad gave me a defective ammo box. Thanks Stew for crushing the image of my perfect father. :kidding:

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[TCLouis]

As I continue to read this thread, think back, I remember the U press, powder dribbler (a requirement when one is loading milsurp 4831 with a Lyman 55 powder measure, a goose call, deer call (long before the plethora of deer calls of today), and yes some of the slip top ammo boxes for my 6.5X257 and 219 Donaldson. Still have em all.

I stumbled across two of the 357 Mag single actions (different barrel lengths) in like new conditions in a pawn shop across from Ft Campbell about 8-10 years ago . . .They wanted 150 bucks apiece, but since it was KY, not TN I did not even negotiate for price. Found out later they had a store in Nashville and would have transferred them for nothing. DANG, Always wanted one of those pistols and I coulda had two in the second best caliber in the world.

This is funny because as many of the younger members read our blather about "HERTERS", it is likely difficult for them to understand a whole 'nother era', not unlike the stories we heard as we grew up about the "depression".

Nostalgia mode about "Back Then" off.

[smokemjoe]

I got like new a kakie shirt with Heters name on it, Will sell it, I think Herters got in a law jam over design suite thay may of copyed.

[georgewxxx]

bruce drake mentioned Herters moulds he has. And several of you mentioned having their old catalogs, I wonder if someone would find their boolit page,scan and post it here and maybe get it on Castpics too. It would make a great reference for all of us to use. I think you'll have to go back to the late 50's or early 60's catalog to find them.

Herters quit offering their own moulds in the 60's, After that they sold Lyman/Ideal equipment. That's where the start of my casting saga began. If you've been into reloading long enough, you'll come across Krupp American, and Ruhr American products too. They were offshoots of Herters and the Ruhr American store in Glenwood Minnesota was almost a better store than the Herter store in Waseca Minnesota was back in the late 60's and early 70's. We'd go to Mitchell South Dakota every couple months and load up on whatever our needs were in the big Herter store. Then at the end when they were selling out, I bought as many moulds from them as I could use at the time. The wasp waist condoms shot as good as any other brand of bullet, but better? I don't think so. After a while to most of us the "Model Perfect" was only just company hype you took with a grain of salt, especially once you got bit with one of their lesser products.

Herters had my $200 for a over and under shotgun for well over two years before they refunded it. I thought they were just fishing to see if enough people were interested. Both the O/U and a A-5 Browning look alike were cataloged for close to 3 years before they actually had them. Both made in Japan if I remember right. Then 68GCA put the kibosh on everthing.....Geo

[AZ-Stew]

I am still using those same Herters 38/357 plastic boxes that Dad bought back in the early 60's. Being Born in 1970, and growing up with Herters products on the reloading bench, and in the field I thought that the 38/357 boxes were suppose to be that way. It never crossed my mind that it was a mfg defect. I was 7 years old when I was given a Marlin 1894 carbine in a 357mag and starting using the plastic boxes to keep my ammo in. As a 7 year old boy it would never have crossed my mind that Dad would give me something defective. I can't believe that 32 years later I am just now finding out that dad gave me a defective ammo box. Thanks Stew for crushing the image of my perfect father. :kidding:

OK, OK, maybe this'll help. The boxes were made exactly per specification. No manufacturing defects.

The design was defective.

Feel better now? :mrgreen:

Regards,

Stew

[twotoescharlie]

I also was a big fan of Herter's, started out reloading with a big brown press, still got some dies, knives and books from them. I really miss Herter's.

TTC

[1Shirt]

Still using some Herters dies, and loading the last 30 or so Herters 6.5x55 brass.
Periodicaly pick up and skim thru the Herters Reloading Manual.
Good memories!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Cherokee]

How well I remember Herters. Still have half jackets and full jackets for swaging bullets, and lots of those ammo boxes for 38/357 and 45.

[Char-Gar]

Mac... Thanks for posting those pics. That is a true blast from the past when the California/Rococo style gunstock was all the rage. Shades of Anthony Guymond.

For those who don't remember 1968, that law was passed because politicians and public figures (Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King and George Wallace) were being mowed down like ducks in the shooting gallery. That law was a serious blow to the shooters and it took us many years to roll back even some of the provisions.

When the law was passed, my local gunsmith, who also sold reloading stuff was so pissed he was loading up all of his stock of bullets to sell them for scrap. I had him load it in my vehicle and paid him scrap prices per pound. I stil have a few of those many thousand bullets. But most were shot, sold or traded.

[SharpsShooter]

I still have 5 boxes of Herters .243 brass. It is darn good brass too.


SS

[StanDahl]

bruce drake mentioned Herters moulds he has. And several of you mentioned having their old catalogs, I wonder if someone would find their boolit page,scan and post it here and maybe get it on Castpics too. It would make a great reference for all of us to use. I think you'll have to go back to the late 50's or early 60's catalog to find them.


As it is written, so shall it be done...here is a link to the Fall-Winter-Spring 1957-8 catalog:

http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o73/jstendahl/Herters%201963/

There is a bullet chart and, also included, lots of pictures of Jacques Jr. and his trophies, taken with no larger than 180 grain bullets and 15 lb test monofilament.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o73/jstendahl/Herters%201963/img561.jpg

Do you think George shot this one, or found it laying on the plain?

I'll send the bullet chart to Castpics for inclusion there too.

[FWAddit]

I still have a few Herter's slip-top ammo boxes, one of those massive "U" presses, a number of dies, a powder measure, almost two boxes of .243 diameter Wasp-Waist Sonic bullets, and a little over two pounds of Model 100 Perfect Rifle Powder. All of it works very well except the bullets, which in my rifle run groups over 3 inches at 100 yards, at least twice as big as I get from Sierras, Speers, and Hornadys.

In the mid 70's the cast iron handle on the press snapped in two under normal use. I took the handle off and sent it back, assuring Herter's that I had "not abused it in any way, except verbally." They sent a fresh one by return mail, without comment.

The powder is excellent stuff; Though Herter's loading manuals recommend about the same charges for it as are standard for IMR 4350, I find I have to go a couple of grains lighter in .30-06 and 6mm. With so little of it left, I do not experiment with it any more but just load recipes that have proven satisfactory. Believe it or not, one of those recipes uses a caseful under a soft 250-gr. boolit in .35 Remington. (It fits in my bolt actions, though not my Marlin.) I have used their shotgun powders too, but that stuff is all gone now.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I was sorting thru a large ice cream pail that contained .308 fired brass today. I was sorting them by headstamp brand. I was near the bottom finally when I came across a single Herters case. I sat back in my chair and never did finish sorting the rest of that brass as I was a little bit occupied with alot of memories of younger days.:(Robert

[Boerrancher]

Wow, never in a million years would I have thought that a thread I started bring so many responses. Thanks fellas for helping me remember some of the better days of my child hood, learning to load ammo with the Model Perfect equipment. It is also nice to hear from those older than I, talk about a time when we were much less uptight as a nation, and had a whole lot more freedom.


Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe