First time casting- bullets are soft bhn8.5

[aeronc]

I cast my first bullets and they seem to be a bit soft ie bhn 8.5 or so even after 24 hrs. I smelted ww and did not remove zinc ww rather just skimmed the top. I did not have a thermometer at this point. I am using a lee 6 cavity mold making 230 gr rn .45 bullets. The actual weights are approx 225-226. The bullets looked terrible ie did not fill out until I turned the temp up to 700 degrees. It could be the mold finally got warm?? I cast approx 100 bullets and the last 50 at 700 degrees looked pretty good. I have a lee hardness tester and a good tru-temp thermometer.
I used ALOX lube and paint thinner mix which worked ok but remained a little sticky.
I sized approx 25 in a lee sizer and 25 no sizer. The unsized ones shot a bit more accurately, however in a tight chambered 45 I had some that did not chamber when unsized. I will size all in the future.
I got leading in the pistol.
1 Do you think the leading is due to zinc?
2 Is the need to heat to 700 degrees unusual?
3 Should I try quenching the bullets when I make them to make them a little harder?
4 Any way to make ALOX bullets less sticky? I kept the alox to a minimun I thought. THANKS

[docone31]

I suspect they are tumble lube castings.
I have never tumble lubed, I pan lube and then size.
What did the bore slug to and how does it compare with your final size?
I believe sizing is why barrels lead.
I once loaded with some Hard Cast bullets. Phooey on them! I also knew nothing about sizing and relationship to the bore. So in reality, phooey on whom?
First of all, get your size.
Second, crank up your pot and heat up the mold. Untill I did that with my Lee molds, I got garbage.
Sizing.
I also water drop when I cast, although I have never used six cavity mold so I do not know how likely it will water drop.
It also gets better with experience.

[Kawfeegod]

I too had the same problem with my first casting. The first 100 or so bullets looked like crap. After some more cleaning, turning up the pot, heating the mold, they started to drop rather nice. Before I knew it I had a nice pile of .45 bullets. I don't know what the hardness is, but I put a shallow scratch in them with my finger nail. Not sure what that translates to. I have not had a chance to shoot them yet, so I cannot comment on the leading.

[454PB]

If you really have zinc contamination, you will never get perfect boolits.

Undiluted wheelweight metal should cast about 12 BHN, and heat treat to twice that if desired.

I agree with the previous posts, you're casting too cool. I use 725 to 750 degrees with two cavity Lee moulds, the six cavity surely needs at least that. Preheat the mould before starting to cast.

[kernal_panic]

If you really have zinc contamination, you will never get perfect boolits.

Undiluted wheelweight metal should cast about 12 BHN, and heat treat to twice that if desired.

I agree with the previous posts, you're casting too cool. I use 725 to 750 degrees with two cavity Lee moulds, the six cavity surely needs at least that. Preheat the mould before starting to cast.

i cast hot with the lee 6 cavs. I set my old saeco to 800 and in the case of my lee 6 cav 124 grn TC TL mold I dip the end of the mold in the melt untill the lead doesn't stick anymore. then i'm good to go. they cast out at .359-.360 . right now i am sizing a batch to .358 for .38 special. I'll also be sizing down to .356 for 9mm.

[targetshootr]

I bet it's your hardness tester, not a low bhn. My ww are 12-13 bhn. Today I cast, lubed and sized 1200, 255 gr 45s and because the lead was allowed to reach 700 degrees and the mold was pre-heated on a gas range burner, they were good to go from the first 6.

[Willbird]

Also the the Original Poster, how did you clean your mold before you started casting ?

I take off the sprue plate, and scrub it and the mold with dawn dish soap and hot water, rinse it well and then sort of cook it wiwth straight hot water, I have no children so my hot water is HOT, then I let them dry and I cast with them. If I have issues I clean the mold again the same way. I only smoke the mold if I have to. My shop is 50 degrees right now and I have to preheat a mold to get good bullets, in the summer 8-10 throws and it is making good bullets with no preheat.

Bill

[Calamity Jake]

"I cast my first bullets and they seem to be a bit soft ie bhn 8.5 or so even after 24 hrs."

"It takes a while for WW to come to full hardness.

Wait two weeks and check them again, I think you will find them to be about 12-13 BHN.

"Should I try quenching the bullets when I make them to make them a little harder?"

Yes you can. It will still be a minimum of 24-48 hours before they will get to there full hardness.


"I used ALOX lube and paint thinner mix which worked ok but remained a little sticky."

It's always going to be a little sticky. If you don't like sticky the dust them with a little corn starch or motormica.

"I got leading in the pistol."

If you thin the alox then put two coats on the boolets and make sure they fit the throat

"1 Do you think the leading is due to zinc?"

NO, boolet fit and lack of enough lube is most likely the cause and or trying to push them to fast.

"Is the need to heat to 700 degrees unusual?"

700° is just about a minunim in most cases.

750-800° is alot better.

[arcticbreeze]

i cast hot with the lee 6 cavs. I set my old saeco to 800 and in the case of my lee 6 cav 124 grn TC TL mold I dip the end of the mold in the melt untill the lead doesn't stick anymore. then i'm good to go. they cast out at .359-.360 . right now i am sizing a batch to .358 for .38 special. I'll also be sizing down to .356 for 9mm.

I am confused, in your original post you said you turned it up to 700 and ask if that was unusual. Did you mean 800?


I cast my first bullets and they seem to be a bit soft ie bhn 8.5 or so even after 24 hrs. I smelted ww and did not remove zinc ww rather just skimmed the top. I did not have a thermometer at this point. I am using a lee 6 cavity mold making 230 gr rn .45 bullets. The actual weights are approx 225-226. The bullets looked terrible ie did not fill out until I turned the temp up to 700 degrees. It could be the mold finally got warm?? I cast approx 100 bullets and the last 50 at 700 degrees looked pretty good. I have a lee hardness tester and a good tru-temp thermometer.
I used ALOX lube and paint thinner mix which worked ok but remained a little sticky.
I sized approx 25 in a lee sizer and 25 no sizer. The unsized ones shot a bit more accurately, however in a tight chambered 45 I had some that did not chamber when unsized. I will size all in the future.
I got leading in the pistol.
1 Do you think the leading is due to zinc?
2 Is the need to heat to 700 degrees unusual?
3 Should I try quenching the bullets when I make them to make them a little harder?
4 Any way to make ALOX bullets less sticky? I kept the alox to a minimun I thought. THANKS

[Bret4207]

Too cool a mould, for sure. And as the others said the alloy will ber a lot harder in a couple weeks. They gave you the advice to follow, I don't see anything to disagree with. Turn the heat up and cast faster. You need to get the mould hot as well as the alloy.

[mooman76]

I agree with the others. Turn up the heat. Takes allot of heat for a 6x especially for a new caster. After you have been casting awhile you'll speed up and not even know it from all the practice. Turn the heat up all the way. When you start to get good bullets and they are getting all frosty gradually turn the heat down a little at a time til you get a good flow of well filled out bullets. Also zink is harder than lead so if you got contaminated lead it would probably be harder.

[HeavyMetal]

You didn't specifiy which type WW metal you were using.

Clip on's will be harder than stick on's because of the antimony content. Stick on's are pretty much pure lead and would generate the 8.5 BHN your getting.

Water dropping will not make this alloy harder, age will not make this alloy harder and adding tin will not make this alloy harder.

As to the leading: I don't think 8.5 BHN is to soft I think the LLA is not getting it done!

I dislike the stuff personally but two coats may cure your problem plus a dusting with motor mica should stop the sticky.

After you get tired of the hassle look into a good lube sizer and you'll find life will be better especially once you can get into some better lubes like Lar's!

You'll need to add clip on WW or some hardened shot to get some antimoy in your alloy. Be careful if you use shot as a hardener, some shot has quite a bit of Arsininc in it which can be bad for you and will cause very brittle boolits. This is, of course, if you decide you need to make your boolits harder thsn 8.5 BHN.

You may be over sizing ( you did not mention a diameter) and wiping the LLA off as you size ( again one then size than another coat) it's also possible your sizing to small .452 is a standard for 45 auto, Start there!

[Lloyd Smale]

what kind of hardness tester are you using. Most take some experince to get accurate readings from and for the most part they are more for comparing lead hardness then to actually put an accurate exact bhn number on them. Most ww batches will go between 9-11 for me. It would be easy to make that 12 or 14, just adust the readout on my hardness tester ;). dont consern yourself to much with what reading your getting. there wws and when you melt them there still ww. Zinc wont melt into you pot unless you get it real hot. If you keep an eye on your smelt and catch them when the float to the top and skim them off you wont have a problem. tumble lubed bullets like was said need to be cast hot and fast to make good bullets. To many small details in the mold that need to fill out.

[Bret4207]

Another thing- why do you think you had any zinc WW's? If you think you had them you never should have added them.

[aeronc]

First of all THANKS for all the replys.
1 I am using clip on ww and removed all the stick on I found. I did not notice zinc when I smelted the ww, but given I was able to get good boolits after turning up the heat, I may have been lucky and skimmed off the zinc prior to it melting.
2 I am making practice bullets, ie I did not slug any barrels. I may do so in the future. I was shooting a 1911.
3 I am sizing to .452 with standard lee (cheap) sizing dies. I am understanding the shortcomings of ALOX TL and may upgrade to a sizer. Probably a used lyman 4500
4 I am using a lee hardness tester. I am a novice, however it is pretty simple.
5 The 2 molds I have (.45 230 gr/ and .38 158gr) are lee 6 cavity with the multiple rings at the bottom of the bullet made for TL Alox. I read to try shooting these both sized and unsized. As I said it seemed the unsized had feeding problems..not good. Will these bullets work in a conventional lube/sizer??
6 While not nescessary, the thermometer sure seems to speed up the learning curve. I am confident at the temp suggested ie above 700 the casting will go great. It was worth $37 to me.
7 I wanted to see how the casting worked. It is fun. I tried to go cheap and plan to upgrade as needed. Thanks again.

[Tom Herman]

Hi Aero!

Welcome aboard! You've gotten good advice so far.
To recap, segregate your wheel weights into three piles: Clip ons, stick ons, and obvious crap.
The clip ons are the good stuff with antimony and other hardening metals.
The stick ons are essentially pure lead.
Heat up the wheel weights. I do a handful at a time. If you have any that float and do not melt in a timely fashion, pull them and discard!
Once that handful melts, drop in another one, melt, and skim off the junk.
Keep doing this until you have your pot full. I then flux and cast the WW into one pound ingots.
I melt the stick ons separately. They are nearly pure lead. Melt a bit at a time to keep Zink from getting itno the mix.
I use a 50/50 mixture of wheel weights to scrap lead, plus 2% tin for good mold fillout. makes a great all purpose handgun bullet. I've used it from .38 SPL to .455 Webley with great results, little to no leading.

Once you're ready to cast, clean your molds thoroughly. I use a brake cleaner.
Your molds and alloy need to be up to temperature to cast well. I put my molds on a hotplate and turn up about 25%. I run my alloy about 800 degrees.
Cold molds cast like crap. Bands don't fill out, etc.
You'll notice that as your molds get warmer, the fillout will get better, and eventually, you'll have perfect bullets.
I water drop my 50/50 bullets.

Good Luck with your casting and reloading!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[aeronc]

Retested hardness. BHN is now 11.8 after 10 days. Just like you said they harden over time. thanks

[Leftoverdj]

Lee uses some awful junk as a mould preservative. Until you get it off, you get bad bullets. Nobody ever believes how hard it is to get off, and a lot of folks use stuff that further contaminates the mould. If you crank up the heat and cast persistently, you can eventually burn it off. It's a lot easier to read the instructions and clean the mould properly in the first place.

NEW LEE MOULD AND BAD BULLETS = FAILURE TO CLEAN PROPERLY

It's a 20 to 1 shot against it being anything else.

btw, set those bullets aside for a week and retest. You're going to be surprised.