Better stock up on brass, primers and powder

[wilddog45]

I got a bad feeling that something is going on. You notice that all the reloading suppliers have everything on backorder? I wonder if the government is implementing the markers on the bullets and brass and that companies like Winchester and Remington are retooling for a government control over components? Anyone heard anything or is there just an increase in reloading interest since ammo is so high and there is a run on everything? Even powder is hard to come by these days.

[Jimlakeside]

I am wondering the same thing. What exactly is going on that makes people want to stock up on reloading supplies? For those of you that are hording guns and reloading supplies what is your reasoning?

[mike in co]

I got a bad feeling that something is going on. You notice that all the reloading suppliers have everything on backorder? I wonder if the government is implementing the markers on the bullets and brass and that companies like Winchester and Remington are retooling for a government control over components? Anyone heard anything or is there just an increase in reloading interest since ammo is so high and there is a run on everything? Even powder is hard to come by these days.

some people are always a dollar short and a day( or months) late.........
and no it aint true

maybe do a search before posting next time....


mike in co

[DGV]

Yup! cant find a box of 1000 primers to save my life. The Mrs. is making lead foil hats as we speak. I was told the Obama administration has controlled the thought police and hence the primer shortage.

[Shiloh]

I got a bad feeling that something is going on. You notice that all the reloading suppliers have everything on backorder? I wonder if the government is implementing the markers on the bullets and brass and that companies like Winchester and Remington are retooling for a government control over components? Anyone heard anything or is there just an increase in reloading interest since ammo is so high and there is a run on everything? Even powder is hard to come by these days.

Listen Folks,

This has been circulating for quite some time. Covered here, and MANY other boards. It's called the Ammunition Accountability Act.

So far it has gone nowhere.
Probably because there are to many drawbacks to it, and very little or no money for politicos to siphon off of it.

There are shortages and price gouging because of hoarding. This type of post adds fuel to the fire.

Shiloh

[putteral]

Here in Florida CCW permit applications are going thru the roof. Seems like everybody is panick buying from ammo,guns, reloadinding supplies, etc. Local gun show last week had lines out the door. Are things going to get much worse? Stock market down another 5 % today. :castmine:

[klcarroll]

Hey! .......Look at it this way: ....Mr. Obama has certainly brought record sales and prosperity to the Firearms Industry!!

I have NEVER seen people buying like this!! .....It's amazing what panic can do!

.......Maybe he should have Mr. Holder "leak" the rumor that he's going to outlaw home and car sales! The Real Estate and Auto Industries could use a little "panic buying" right now!

Kent

[jsizemore]

When I first got into reloading there was the primier scare of the 90's. Folks went nuts and started buying everything in sight. The military was gearing up "just in case". The only shop that had primiers would only sale 100 at a time. What a time to build a Caspian 1911. People need to calm down.

[mag_01]

Good one Klcarroll I believe you have the answer.:castmine:

[klcarroll]

All of this talk about primer hoarding has started me wondering: .......Just what is a reasonable "shelf life" for modern, commercial primers that are still in their original boxes???

In getting set up to reload again, I came across a couple of thousand CCI primers that have been sitting in an ammo can for twenty years. I was going to throw them out, .....but now I'm having second thoughts!

Kent

[zxcvbob]

Stock up when components are plentiful and you won't have to worry so much when they are scarce. (it also leaves some for the people who are late to the party.) It goes in cycles.

20 years is nothing, although the lead styphnate primers are probably not as everlasting as the old potassium chlorate primers were, and the next generation will have a shorter storage life than that -- but still probably pretty good.

[wilddog45]

I found some CCI large pistol primers that I had misplaced for 10 yrs and they were still good.

[part_timer]

I see it as the short sited people trying to not be as far behind as last time they put one in office. They are still WAY to far behind.

[NSP64]

All of this talk about primer hoarding has started me wondering: .......Just what is a reasonable "shelf life" for modern, commercial primers that are still in their original boxes???

In getting set up to reload again, I came across a couple of thousand CCI primers that have been sitting in an ammo can for twenty years. I was going to throw them out, .....but now I'm having second thoughts!

Kent

I'll come upstate and get them from you. I'll let you know how many misfire.[smilie=1:

[Ole]

I've got enough lead to ride out almost any dry spell. :mrgreen:

[oldtoolsniper]

"Better to have and not need, then to need and not have"

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Just think of it. Illegals and crooked mortgage lenders, buyers, and sellers are dancing in the streets awaiting the gravy train...........They have tickets, Thank you, Thank you, Lord obama.

Wall street drops anytime Obama or a minion opens his mouth on destroying our national business principles. Old pols and lobbyists are paying to play, and finding employment and an outlet for their particular philosophical pervisions.

Tens of millions of good law abiding citizens are seeking to protect themselves, their families and American heritage and culture.

40, 000,000,000 million babies aborted since roe decided and its soon to be official policy of the nation without exception, 1 1/2 % of the citizenry are driving pervsity to become the prevailing standard of relationships, euthanasia will soon be the other end of the abortion train.

Where have you been wilddog 45 ? BvT

[oldtoolsniper]

BvT,
You can drink my Whiskey, Beer or water anytime!

[jdowney]

40, 000,000,000 million babies

Soooooo.... lessee..... that comes out to 40,000,000,000,000,000.....

I know whacha meant, but if you're going to hop on the soap box, good idea to check yer digits first.

1. 40 million is 40,000,000 - NOT 40,000,000,000 (thats 40 billion)
2. All them zeros negate the need for the word "million"

[Gunslinger]

I just bought 1000 Magtech small pistol primers today for $26! I honestly think this is the FIRST TIME I've ever seen anything related to shooting being cheaper here than in the states. Normally I pay 2 or 3 times as much as you guys do.

[Dan Cash]

I shot some old Remington 7x57 cartridges last fall as I have lots and the boxes are rotting. I think these are slightly pre WWI but may be from the 20s. They state that they are good for Mauser rolling block and Hotchkiss machine gun. Fired 20 and got 20 ignitions. I did not target them but "busted" a rock out in a pasture about 300 yards distant. Things seemed pretty uniform but 3 cases cracked. No blow back just an axial crack in mid body. I don't know if they are mercuric or corrosive but I surely washed the bore and trashed the brass.
Dan

[Recluse]

I am wondering the same thing. What exactly is going on that makes people want to stock up on reloading supplies? For those of you that are hording guns and reloading supplies what is your reasoning?

I started "hoarding" reloading supplies and components almost twenty years ago.

After a few of our adventures in Panama then Iraq/Kuwait, I watched primer availability virtually dry up. When the drought ended, prices went up considerably. I thought it was pure BS, but not a damn thing I could do about it except to buy in mass quantity.

So buy in mass quanities I did.

Then came Klinton. I continued to buy in large quantities. I relaxed a little--not much, but a little-when George W came in, but then came 9/11 and I started buying heavy again.

Then comes the Immaculated Messiah, Hussein Obama, and I'm damn glad I was buying primers 5,000 at a time and powder in kegs. Thanks to a great tip from Junior, I have that powder stored in my spare upright deep freezer along with many of the primers.

I keep ALL brass I find, even brass for firearms and calibers I don't own. Have made some decent trades now and then. I scavage lead like a vulture looking for roadkill.

Basically, I just don't trust our damn government and I don't trust the freaking sheople that ushered this Socialist administration into royalty. So I'm going to continue buying in large quantities.

Right now, it's better than buying stocks or bonds--I can ALWAYS get my money back on primers.

:coffee:

[wilddog45]

http://criminalsforguncontrol.com/

[Gee_Wizz01]

About a year ago my Dad found a box of 1000 Rem large pistol primers I bought back in 1974. They had gotten pushed back behind some boxes on a shelf under his workbench. They all went bang when they were supposed to. That being said we need to calm down a little on the panic buying. Remember every year about this time the major suppliers run short on product (Midway, Midsouth, etc) as a lot of the manufacturers shut down for the holidays and then seem to clean out their stock for inventory, before gearing up the new years production. This year was the perfect storm, the election and now the scare, stocks were low and now they are gone, hopefully in a few weeks we will start to see a resupply and the manufacturers will increase production.

G

[klcarroll]

....I honestly think this is the FIRST TIME I've ever seen anything related to shooting being cheaper here than in the states. Normally I pay 2 or 3 times as much as you guys do.

Gunslinger;

I'll tell you what: .....We'll send Mr. Obama to you, and he'll have things back to the way you remember them in no time!! :kidding:

....Just kidding! ..........I'm glad SOMEBODY is still getting good deals!!:drinks:

Kent

[Flash]

All of this talk about primer hoarding has started me wondering: .......Just what is a reasonable "shelf life" for modern, commercial primers that are still in their original boxes???

In getting set up to reload again, I came across a couple of thousand CCI primers that have been sitting in an ammo can for twenty years. I was going to throw them out, .....but now I'm having second thoughts!

Kent

no, ship them to me and I'll get rid of them for you.;-)

[Shiloh]

All of this talk about primer hoarding has started me wondering: .......Just what is a reasonable "shelf life" for modern, commercial primers that are still in their original boxes???

In getting set up to reload again, I came across a couple of thousand CCI primers that have been sitting in an ammo can for twenty years. I was going to throw them out, .....but now I'm having second thoughts!

Kent

If they were kept cool and dry, away from large temperature swings, They will be fine. As stated in a different post, a couple of years ago I used up the last of the primers purchased during the "Clinton Primer Scare" I also recently found some primers in a box of old keepsakes. I'll bet they're 30 years old, and I'm sure they're fine.

Try your primers. With reasonable storage conditions, they should be fine.

Shiloh

[Boerrancher]

A while back I shot up the last of the Herter's primers that my Father bought back in the late 50's or early 60's. I would have kept them had the package been a full 100, but since there was only 20 or so in the pack I shot them up and every one of them went bang. Heck Dad is still hunting with 7 mag ammo that is loaded with those Herters primers.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Mtman314]

The guy that taught me to reload in Pennsylvania is still using primers that his Dad bought back in the 50's.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

It won't hurt to buy a few primers, a few pounds of powder, may as well have a new blaster or two also, Ya never can tell, Stocks down another 299 points today, and they are going to #### away another how many billion to bail out AIG, I think the first installment was 127 billion, when is enough?? Let it go... :roll:

To the first two post: If you are having a problem figuring out what is going on, they call it Socialism , and Lots of people that don't cast, shoot, hunt very much are trying to get back ahead of the curve, but it Ain't happenin[smilie=1:

Properly stored primers & powder will last a lot longer than most of us will, if not used your grand kids can have something to shoot.:-D

There is not much use in worrying about adding fuel to the fire, Ossama Obamba and his gang are doing a hell of a fine job, daily I might add.

:redneck: :cbpour: :Fire:

[looseprojectile]

with a friend in Idaho. He told me that the company that bought CCI in Lewiston just laid off a hundred people. He lives seventeen miles from there.

Something going on here? I for one, am getting curious.

Life is good

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

I have bought all the primers Im going to buy. Now Im buying powder. On average my 300 win mags use 78 grains each. Not even 100 rounds per pound.
Shops here have been getting primers and powder for the last 2 weeks.

[par0thead151]

I am wondering the same thing. What exactly is going on that makes people want to stock up on reloading supplies? For those of you that are hording guns and reloading supplies what is your reasoning?

turn on the television, or better yet, listen to what the current administration is saying, or even better yet, look at what they are passing into law and nominating to the cabinet
i stocked up years ago when things were cheap and plentiful. dont blame me for the current shortages:-D

[klcarroll]

I think that our current financial disaster is far more than an “uncontrolled slide”! It may have started that way, but I suspect that now, there are cunning, well funded people who are using the current situation to their profound advantage.

In Stock Market jargon there is a scam known as “Poop & Scoop”: ……The implementation of this scam involves the spreading of exaggerated bad news about a stock, with the intension of driving the price down: ….Once the price is low enough, the “spreaders of bad news” rush in and buy at “fire sale” prices.

This is what I think is happening on a global scale! The recession has created an environment where entire stock markets can be trashed by what is said in the morning news! …..And I can’t help but notice that most of the “private sector” people who spew “Doom and Gloom” in media interviews are the very people who will be in a good position to buy later on!

You all watch! …..There are people out there who are going to make fantastic amounts of money by using the current “problem” to their advantage!

….But, of course, their tactics will ruin most of us “little people”.

Kent

[bbs70]

When I need powder, primers, etc, and there are no gun shows in the area I go to Graf's and Cabella's in St. Charles MO. for the stuff I need.
I have noticed no shortages of anything in these places, or inflated prices.

But I have noticed people standing in line at Cabella's to buy guns.

I think someone starts a rumor and before you know it the rumor has been inflated beyond what it was to start with.
People hear the rumor and before you know it they panic, and in this case start buying up guns and reloding equiptment.

I try to look on the bright side of situations.
Maybe when the panic buying is over people will look at the guns they bought and wonder "What the heck was I thinking" and decide to sell their guns to get some of their money back.
Maybe some good deals for us.:drinks:

If they decide to put their new guns to use, we have more people on our side enjoying the sport.:-D

[Mtman314]

The last gunshow in Billings folks were still buying primers by the 1000's one guy I know of bought 10,000. I'll see what happens at the gunshow again the end of March. I do know guns were moving off the floor exceedingly fast. So far I can still get primers and powder here.

Also BBS70 if they don't want to use their guns they can always turn them into the dallas buy back for 50 bucks on a card for food. Chances are they'll get hungry enough when the prices get high enough. Then the police can say see all the guns we kept out of the hands of the criminals.

[BruceB]

Out of curiosity, I just checked the Graf's website.

Looking ONLY at Large Rifle primers, I found that THIRTY-FOUR types or varieties of packaging are "Out of Stock". THREE types of Large Rifle are in stock, and two of those are the expensive Bench Rest primers in two sizes of packaging.


So, I went to the Midway site. They list no fewer than 36 types or packaging of Large Rifle primers. Care to guess how many types Midway has in stock? NONE!!! That's right, one of the biggest shooting-related retailers in the world has exactly NO Large Rifle primers available for sale.......no backorders accepted, either.


....and some still think there's no shortage?!?!?


I've been buying some stuff locally, where we seem to have a decent supply for now. What the future holds, only time will tell, but to ignore the symptoms and fail to lay in at least a small amount of the basic goodies could mean the END of one's shooting. Whistling past the graveyard might make some feel righteous and protected, but the plain truth is that there IS a problem, and we'd all best be aware of the fact.

[Springfield]

The only problem is everybody is stocking up. A 5000 primer brick might last a regular shooter for 5 years, but if you buy it all now, instead of spreading it out, and everybody does the same, the stocks get depleted at an unusual rate. The raw materiels are still there, and the manufacturer is still cranking them out, so technically it is just a temporary shortage. This has happened at least 3 times in my lifetime, and things have always returnrd to normal once the hoarding has stopped and the supplies have returned to normal. The only guys who are hurting are the ones who just buy little amounts as they need them and now they find it just isn't there. Ya gotta take the Morman attitude of keeping 6 months worth of supplies on hand all the time, then you can ride out these temporary situations. Personally I go for more than a years worth of shooting suppies all the time, but that is just me. I don't need no stinkin' primers.

[PatMarlin]

Hey! .......Look at it this way: ....Mr. Obama has certainly brought record sales and prosperity to the Firearms Industry!!

I have NEVER seen people buying like this!! .....It's amazing what panic can do!

.......Maybe he should have Mr. Holder "leak" the rumor that he's going to outlaw home and car sales! The Real Estate and Auto Industries could use a little "panic buying" right now!

Kent


LOL .....:mrgreen:

[bbs70]

Graf's have a small store in St. Charles, Mo.
I bought 1000 lp winchester primers there 2 weeks ago for $28.00.
They had a good supply of primers and powder.
I have noticed a price difference between their BIG warehouse store and the one in St. Charles.
I have also noticed that if the big warehouse says an item is out of stock, the smaller one usually has it in stock.
BTW, a great bunch of guys to deal with.:-D




Out of curiosity, I just checked the Graf's website.

Looking ONLY at Large Rifle primers, I found that THIRTY-FOUR types or varieties of packaging are "Out of Stock". THREE types of Large Rifle are in stock, and two of those are the expensive Bench Rest primers in two sizes of packaging.


So, I went to the Midway site. They list no fewer than 36 types or packaging of Large Rifle primers. Care to guess how many types Midway has in stock? NONE!!! That's right, one of the biggest shooting-related retailers in the world has exactly NO Large Rifle primers available for sale.......no backorders accepted, either.


....and some still think there's no shortage?!?!?


I've been buying some stuff locally, where we seem to have a decent supply for now. What the future holds, only time will tell, but to ignore the symptoms and fail to lay in at least a small amount of the basic goodies could mean the END of one's shooting. Whistling past the graveyard might make some feel righteous and protected, but the plain truth is that there IS a problem, and we'd all best be aware of the fact.

[mike in co]

The only problem is everybody is stocking up. A 5000 primer brick might last a regular shooter for 5 years, but if you buy it all now, instead of spreading it out, and everybody does the same, the stocks get depleted at an unusual rate. The raw materiels are still there, and the manufacturer is still cranking them out, so technically it is just a temporary shortage. This has happened at least 3 times in my lifetime, and things have always returnrd to normal once the hoarding has stopped and the supplies have returned to normal. The only guys who are hurting are the ones who just buy little amounts as they need them and now they find it just isn't there. Ya gotta take the Morman attitude of keeping 6 months worth of supplies on hand all the time, then you can ride out these temporary situations. Personally I go for more than a years worth of shooting suppies all the time, but that is just me. I don't need no stinkin' primers.


5000 A YEAR......
not even close...but then maybe i'm not average...
some people have said that...

mike in co

[bbs70]

5000 primers a year?
NOPE, CAN'T DO IT.
I shoot 400 to 500 rounds every time I go to the range, I get carried away sometimes.:-D
I've gone through 7000 primers in the last 5 months, and it ain't even warm out yet.

As Mike in Co said, some people say I'm not average.
Where is the fun in being average.[smilie=1:
I've even been called strange.:-D

Maybe I ought to change my user name to Strange1.

[TAWILDCATT]

bbs1:shoots 500 yds a session.how many more do that??the ammo companies schedule there production on previous sales.they dont have a dedicated line they have to retool for each cal.and those that have gov contracts are going to fill them before any one else.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[gunsmokeray]

It is called panic buying. Everyone is concerned. I bought a year's supply of primers and powder.

[Catshooter]

Some of you guys need to wake up. Everything shooting related, in most areas of the country are running out. I talked to Lee today they are telling their distributors three months. They told me to expect over a year on the group buy I just sent them!

I advise you to do an inventory, make sure you aren't missing something vital.

I'm good. :)


Cat

[jsizemore]

It will be like the last primier scare. Everybody goes nuts buying everything in sight, and then when supplies catch up, the price goes down, and I stock up for cheap again. Thanks guys

[Shiloh]

It will be like the last primer scare. Everybody goes nuts buying everything in sight, and then when supplies catch up, the price goes down, and I stock up for cheap again. Thanks guys

Yep,

I'll replace what I shoot. Been through one primer scare. It'll take a while but then ther'll be an adequate supply again.

Shiloh

[JudgeBAC]

My take on all of this is the Obama crowd would love nothing more than to deprive us of our guns, ammo, and supplies. The economy just happens to be so bad they cannot concentrate on that part of their agenda just yet.

Wait and see, this crowd will make Bill Clinton look like a boy scout at a church picnic. The Constitution is in real danger. Just watch and see.

[ihuntbuck]

I also shop at graffs and cabelas in st. charles mo and havent noticed much more of a shortage than last year at this time.I am stocking up some but my question is what good will a truckload of powders primers and bullets do if they take away the guns we shoot them with???

[Boomer Mikey]

Everyone is hoarding because of the rumors about new legislation regarding ammunition, components and firearms that will at the very least result in higher prices. People are also concerned about a huge increase in crime related to unemployment and are preparing to defend their families and property. Guns and ammo aren't the only hoarded items... try to find survival items... sold out... back ordered.

Boomer

[Baron von Trollwhack]

You know darn well obama and the dems will initiate the assault weapon ban before the next election cycle. Their political strength is now.

Just as people notoriously voted with their feet i.e., EAST GERMANS RISKING DEATH TO LEAVE COMMUNISM; People are voting with their assets , can you say STOCK Market; Their homeschooling; can you say SEX ED DAYS IN KINDERGARTEN; their skepticism, can you say global bull; A large percentage of us are voting with our supplies and stocks.

Why did the British leave Boston and march to a sleepy village in force? IT WAS FOR THE POWDER, BALL, FLINT, and weapons stores. Why did Georgie want to disarm farmers and village folk? IT WAS TO ENFORCE HIS WILL.

BvT



Sorry for my mistatement on ROE, I meant 40 million.

[Texasflyboy]

....Just what is a reasonable "shelf life" for modern, commercial primers that are still in their original boxes??? Kent

Reasonable? If they are of modern manufacture (Post World War II) I would have to ask what makes you think they have a shelf life?

Back when eBay was selling firearms (a really long time ago) I purchased an estate sale .50 ammo can that was chock full of small pistol and large pistol primers in wooden boxes. I had never seen primers in wooden boxes before. They had been stored outside in a small shed in Biloxi MS since 1955, or so I was told. Not exactly a desert environment.

100% of them fired when used as reload fodder.

I still shoot to this day World War II USGI manufactured ammo. Still shoots fine, more than 65 years after it was made.

Test it before you throw it out.

[klcarroll]

....I purchased an estate sale .50 ammo can that was chock full of small pistol and large pistol primers in wooden boxes. I had never seen primers in wooden boxes before. They had been stored outside in a small shed in Biloxi MS since 1955, or so I was told. Not exactly a desert environment.

100% of them fired when used as reload fodder. ...........Test it before you throw it out.





Well, ....I have tested them, ......And so far, ...so good!

The initial reason for my concern was that some of the weapons I load for are full-autos, and a weak primer ten rounds into a thirty round stick COULD possibly cause a problem!

.....But given the current situation, ....I don't think I'll be throwing ANYTHING out!

....And concerning the whole "stocking up" mindset: ....All I know is that I have enough material in stock to last longer than I will if a serious "problem" arises!

Kent

[Recluse]

I also shop at graffs and cabelas in st. charles mo and havent noticed much more of a shortage than last year at this time.I am stocking up some but my question is what good will a truckload of powders primers and bullets do if they take away the guns we shoot them with???

First off, nobody--and I mean NO-FREAKING-BODY--is going to take my guns away. Period. Ask any veteran who is a hardcore Second Amendment supporter what they think of letting Uncle Nanny come in and take away his/her guns.

Uh-huh. Nope. No way. Nada. Zippo.

Now, am I stupid enough to think that I can go up against the APCs and tanks and nazi stormtroopers that pass as so many of today's "law enforcement" if they roll down my street? Hell, no. But trust me--there will be a lot stronger indicators of things to come before the APCs and six-by's and tanks and stormtroopers start doing raids.

Paid heed to those indicators. Look for books to be banned, starting with old history books and the Bible in particular. Look for churches to lose their tax-exemptions. Look for the government to start "bailing out" (aka: purchasing) media outlets and newspapers such as they did with the Tribune up in Minneapolis/St. Paul. Etc etc.

When I see those things happening with regular and alarming frequency, I'm taking my stash of weapons, components and cash and I'm heading up to the northwest. Lot of strong, anti-government folks up there that still believe in the Constitution and Freedom. A number of my old military buddies have moved up to various places in the northwest after they semi-retired.

I'll head up thataways first, regroup with some like-minded folks, then determine what needs to be done.

But just willingly hand over my guns (aka: FREEDOM and RIGHTS) to some government goons in cheap ninja masks? I. Do. Not. Think. So.



In Stock Market jargon there is a scam known as “Poop & Scoop”: ……The implementation of this scam involves the spreading of exaggerated bad news about a stock, with the intension of driving the price down: ….Once the price is low enough, the “spreaders of bad news” rush in and buy at “fire sale” prices.

You all watch! …..There are people out there who are going to make fantastic amounts of money by using the current “problem” to their advantage!

….But, of course, their tactics will ruin most of us “little people”.

Kent

Kent, I hear you. But us "little people" can also make this work for us.

In our portolios, I keep several annuity funds and accounts. Two are for the express purpose of taking advantage of times and opportunities just like these. I bought up a bunch of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac when it plummeted to .69 cents a share back before the bailout gained any steam. Likewise, last week, I bought up shares in Citigroup for less than $1.50/share. My rationale is that there is no way the government is going to let either of these HUGE financial institutions go bellyup and bankrupt. With FM/FM, I've already quadrupled my investment.

I stashed as much money away as I could when I was working full-time just for times like these. I've yet to buy or own a new car, a new house, new boat or much of anything other than furniture and appliances and a few guns--even those (guns) I mainly buy used. Grew up poor as hell. Worked my butt off for sixty, seventy and eighty hours a week in the corporate world earning my promotions up to the top. And even then, my wife and I lived like we were poor starving college students. Now we're comfortable and we give to our church, a number of charities and we've "adopted" several families in our area that are in a bad way and have been for a long time. Through our church, my wife adopted a little girl and her family in Uraguay. We're working to bring them to the States and sponsor them for citizenship.

We've been blessed, but we've worked hard for it and tried to be smart. I figure I'm going to take Hussein Obama's BS and make it work as well as I can for me--and then use the majority of our gains to write checks to NRA/ILA, AOPA and conservative officials/candidates who want to get America back in line with the mainstream and adhere to the Constitution.

"Poop and Scoop?" Yeah, it's happening. But with today's ability to invest, buy and trade having never been easier, the "little people" absolutely CAN take advantage of it.

:coffee:

[wilddog45]

I also shop at graffs and cabelas in st. charles mo and havent noticed much more of a shortage than last year at this time.I am stocking up some but my question is what good will a truckload of powders primers and bullets do if they take away the guns we shoot them with???

Didn't Thomas Jefferson say that the second amendment wouldn't be needed until it is taken away?:redneck:

[mike in co]

I also shop at graffs and cabelas in st. charles mo and havent noticed much more of a shortage than last year at this time.I am stocking up some but my question is what good will a truckload of powders primers and bullets do if they take away the guns we shoot them with???

i will surrender my weapons when all my primers, powder, bullets, brass are gone, and i can no longer swing them as a weapon.....

your name is an issue....you hunt buck, but do you have any idea what the constitution is about ?

mike in co

[Kawfeegod]

I am going to offer a slightly different opinion. Now, since I just recently got into the reloading and casting action, and I dont trust the gubbmint any farther than I can throw them ( although free healthcare after I throw them....) I have been stocking up on all components. Now, I can go to Cabelas or Sportsmans Whorehouse and the shelves are pretty much empty. If you ask, they usually say whatever is coming in the next shipment. If I go to the smaller outfits in town, they are pretty well stocked. Being in the manufacturing biz, our vendors are running lean as well. Things that we used to be able to pickup are now 2 weeks out. Metal availability is also not what it used to be. We are also only buying what we need to meet the orders that are on hand, very little extra. Now, translate this to the retail side of things. The big box stores are only stocking the bare mins. Only what they need to get by. With a failing economy, they dont want to get caught with their pants down and have a large debt to pay later in liquidation.
I think alot of what is going on is due to the recession and failing economy. I agree that some of it is panic buying, but not all.

Just my .02

[Thor Bloodax]

1) All Wall Marts in Macon have zero bulk .22 ammo. They say their warehouses have zero stock. The shelves are almost empty of ANY ammo except some shotgun shells.

2) Went to A-Z Guns in Macon and he had just gotten a large shipping box full of primers. I was second in line and the large box was half empty by the time I got my mitts in it. The owner never even had time to put price stickers on them or put thm on the shelves.

3) Most of the gun racks in storea around here are half or more empty. I was in one store recently and the owner made five or six calls to buy guns from wholesalers and did not get anything.

Hmmmm.

[waksupi]

I see people think they can go to the northwest and find a haven. Ain't so. Outsiders will not be welcomed in hard times. Just makes it harder for the ones already there to survive. You would probably be treated as an outsider, and dealt with as such. I'd suggest if you are going to hide there, make your move now, and get some local connections.

[Kawfeegod]

I see people think they can go to the northwest and find a haven. Ain't so. Outsiders will not be welcomed in hard times. Just makes it harder for the ones already there to survive. You would probably be treated as an outsider, and dealt with as such. I'd suggest if you are going to hide there, make your move now, and get some local connections.


I'm with ya Waksupi. I'm with ya. Lived in the great NW pretty much all my life, but I think that unless you live in a big city, that feeling is echoed throughout the country

[44mag1]

I was told by a local gun shop owner that the gun manufacturers are not producing much right now not wanting to sit on millions of dollars worth of inventory that may not be legal to sell if the libs change the laws. I wonder if the components for reloading fall into the same catagory?

[snaggdit]

I agree it is better to have and not need then need and can't get. BVT, sounds like you have been to an Appleseed or two :wink:

I have been running into sporadic outages at the local Sheels for powder and primers. Went to a Gander Mountain last weekend, and figured what the heck. Asked for some powder. The guy opened the locker and there was some BP, a couple pyrodex, a few Red Dots and not much else for pistols. He opened the other locker and there was some Hogdons, but nothing I usually load with. I just shook my head.

Unfortunately, I think things will get worse before (if) they get better. My biggest fear right now is food by this fall. Both availability and cost. Farmers today (not all, but many) don't put cash aside from last year to plant this year. They rely on banks to loan them money every spring to plant their fields. What if the banks aren't loaning money this year? And they aren't... What percentage of our country's fields will be left unplanted? Around June, this will be noticed. The world demand will not lessen. With less supply, everyone will start bidding to get their share at any cost. That will be our next big challenge, IMHO. Got a few 5 gallon pails of wheat stored with that powder, lead and primers? Put in your "Freedom Garden" yet? Bought some heirloom seeds?

Also, with more folks becoming unemployed in some of the bigger cities, crime is bound to rise. Many folks are finally deciding that a cop on the phone won't save the Missus, Johnny and little Sarah. They are getting a gun and some ammo. Can you blame them? Personally, I would never live in a city larger than my 3000 pop.

I'm an optimist, but I am also a pragmatist. I have faith in God, but also believe he gave me brains to think with. As a good husband and father, it is my responsibility to make sure I am doing everything in my power to care for my family. As you guys have said, primers don't go bad. You can always eat food. Guns hold their value better than the stock market...

Come what may, I want to be ready. Bottom line.:castmine:

[Recluse]

I see people think they can go to the northwest and find a haven. Ain't so. Outsiders will not be welcomed in hard times. Just makes it harder for the ones already there to survive. You would probably be treated as an outsider, and dealt with as such. I'd suggest if you are going to hide there, make your move now, and get some local connections.

Did that over thirty years ago. Best friend from the military is foreman and one-third owner of a very large ranch in the northwest. There's only a few of us left from the old unit, but we all have acreage on that ranch and we all have a few local connections--plus, we have a lot of other like-minded vets who'll join up and band together if it gets bad.

Texas isn't all that unlike many areas of the northwest. We despise freeloading, loudmouth yankees and rabel-rousers who come down here to "change things" to their liking. Such putrid ilk can get away with that in the bigger cesspools like Dallas and Austin and San Antonio. But best not try it in the smaller outlying areas. You'll be about as popular as the after-effects of drinking tap water in a Juarez chicken ranch. Get too pushy and you'll get your jaw jacked--or worse.

But folks who come down from the north who are pro-freedom, pro-Constitution and not afraid to WORK and earn their own way and become "Texan-ized" have never had any problems.

If it gets bad in this country and strong folks migrate to your neck of the woods for the purposes of banding together in an effort to get things back on an even keel, and such folks bring lots of cash and barter, plus weapons, components and supplies with them for all. . . Wouldn't be bad folks for the natives to have watching their backs.

I travel up there pretty much on an annual basis, anyhow, and have been ever since I discharged out. Just never been able to work a fly rod worth a dang. . .

:coffee:

[Mtman314]

I agree with most on this string, but when you talk to folks they try to tell ya that they'll just go hunting when they need food. Most folks reply off the cuff and never actually think alot through. Well ask some of the oldtimers that were around during the depression. My oldman was born in '21. Game was scarce and when it was found was exceedingly wary due to hunting pressure. If you ain't got the supplies to ensure for you and yours it is going to be traded for if you can find them. I have a couple of friends that say I'll just go to the National Forests and I laugh cause them forest rangers are going to be ready and looking for folks like that. best thing to do is find friends in out of the way places on private land if ya ain't got your own and use your skills to make ya irreplacable. learn all the old skills like canning and drying and root cellaring. I can't afford a sawmill so am getting an alaskan mill. Got my seeds stored up and vacuum sealed. Have replacements or backups for the things that I can't do without. In some cases I even have backups for the backups. Trouble with newcomers is they have to prove themselves if they don't have a person to vouch for them. Things ya ain't got time to learn, stock up on the good how to books and information so ya can at least work it out. Since I've moved west I've been doing alot of what I call practicing. Practice when ya don't need the stuff cause when ya need it ya don't have the resources set back to fail in your attempts.

[mike in co]

I was told by a local gun shop owner that the gun manufacturers are not producing much right now not wanting to sit on millions of dollars worth of inventory that may not be legal to sell if the libs change the laws. I wonder if the components for reloading fall into the same catagory?

bs,,every one a know is running hard and fast....just bs from ur dealer

[Down South]

I was told by a local gun shop owner that the gun manufacturers are not producing much right now not wanting to sit on millions of dollars worth of inventory that may not be legal to sell if the libs change the laws. I wonder if the components for reloading fall into the same catagory? Yup, that's BS from someone.

I see folks are starting to mention food supplies now. I’ve been giving that some thought for some time now. If everything does go belly up then food will be one of the hardest things to get. I’ve already made plans to start planting a large garden again this year. I’ll be planting easy to raise crops like peas and beans that are also easy to can. One problem is, if times do get that bad there won’t be any fuel to run tillers or tractors or such. Everything will have to be done by hand. Someone up above was right about “just go kill some game”. They were correct that there will be so much pressure on game that it will be very scarce. I don’t think that things will get that bad but it is possible and it gives one plenty to think about.

[oldtoolsniper]

I am from a town of 25,000 and our major industry is cement. We live in an area rich in the resources required for producing cement and there are two plants side by side. They are the largest and highest paying employers in this area. Everyone I know is affected by those two plants, my father made his living at one of them. Yesterday they announced the closing of one. The environmental laws affecting cement plants and the current economic situation has just put a whole lot of people out of work. The environmental laws that were passed must be complied with as of this month. I know it doesn’t affect you since you don’t live here, Right? Your cement prices are going to sky rocket. Look around you. Cement is everywhere.

Vote, it’s the most important thing you can do.

[Bret4207]

I noticed the other day that our local Walmart has shelves full of canning gear and jars on display. ???? Wrong time of the year. Asked one of the girls why? :People keep asking for them." I asked if she meant the Amish, "Nope, the English." Odd. Either someone is canning snowflakes or folks are prepping.

[Bret4207]

I am from a town of 25,000 and our major industry is cement. We live in an area rich in the resources required for producing cement and there are two plants side by side. They are the largest and highest paying employers in this area. Everyone I know is affected by those two plants, my father made his living at one of them. Yesterday they announced the closing of one. The environmental laws affecting cement plants and the current economic situation has just put a whole lot of people out of work. The environmental laws that were passed must be complied with as of this month. I know it doesn’t affect you since you don’t live here, Right? Your cement prices are going to sky rocket. Look around you. Cement is everywhere.

Vote, it’s the most important thing you can do.

I think the tipping point on environmental laws has about been reached. EPA just decided they can legislate on dust I hear. The wall is a short ways away and common sense may make a a comeback.

That or the whole thing will collapse....




BTW- This whole "....move to the west and live in the country..." idea works the same everywhere. I live in the sticks. I was told by a USBP Agent from Idaho that our area reminded him of home, only they didn't have , "the abject poverty..." so I suppose were on some peoples "bug out" list. No matter where the city dwellers intend to go they'll meet up with landowners unwilling to share their place.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Yup, I think most of us that have anything to say feel like we had best prepare for the worst and PRAY for the best. This is going down hill daily , and it will come unravelled in the big cities and then the wheels come off....those of us in Alaska are so far from any supplies we best have laid some by. We are on the end of the line, and when that line is disrupted, we are in for a long hard time.

I hope we are all wrong...but we best be ready for anything..[smilie=1:

[3006guns]

Bret, I think you've made the most important point in this discussion. I've been watching for many years, wondering just how much more the American people can take before they finally get pi$$ed enough to do something...and "tipping point" is an accurate description.

It's taken a long time, but even some libs are beginning to realize that we've "over regulated" damn near every facet of our lives. Remember the spotted owl craze years ago? When I hear someone ******** about the cost of lumber, I politely remind them WHY that 2x4 costs so much.

There is need for some regulation in most industries (for the public's protection), but its become so "nit picking" I'm suprised any of our American businesses are still around. Are component manufacturers next?

Political correctness? Bl*w me..........I've never used my speech or actions to intentionally harm anyone, but I'll be damned if I'll be told how to behave. But then again, I have common sense and need no government regulation.

What does this have to do with a suspected components shortage? Only that it's one more aspect of a long, slow climb towards socialism....but people are beginning to scream. You have to dip into a person's pocket before they take it personally, but it's beginning to happen. I only hope it's not too late.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

3006Guns, You can forget the Slow climb, that phase is OVER, we are now gaining speed rolling down a short slippery slope to the demise of the USA as we have known it. We are now out numbered by idiots that want the Govt to wipe their butt and feed them, and they seem ready to trade Freedom for what passes for security to them..I could go on but it isn't anything that has not already been said...Lord Help Us

[klcarroll]

I understand the point Waksupi and Kawfeegod are making: ......Historically, Refugees have never been welcomed in the lands they flee to.

....But here in the U.S., .....if we turn our backs on like-minded people; ......Haven't we just done half of "The Opposition's" work for them??

If the time comes when significant numbers of people are willing to give up their homes, jobs and family ties to flee oppression, then we must face the fact that we have reached a point of crisis!

….And I want to gently remind all that this country wasn’t founded with the tactic of “Hiding in the Hills”; ……..And that tactic will NOT save it now!

EVERYONE needs to understand that when we reach the “Crisis Point”, fleeing to the “Great Northwest” is not the answer: …….But neither is “Hunkering Down and Waiting It Out”!


Kent

[3006guns]

Slow Elk, you are entirely correct. I was speaking in a historical reference and should have made that clear.

I've never seen so much outright.....well......FEAR regarding our future. Not with any president I can remember anyway.

This current administration is plunging headlong into what THEY perceive as a perfect utopia. It won't work. It has never worked. The problem is that failure has to occur before corrections can be made, and by that time the perpetrators have disappeared into the woodwork. People are not ants or bees......they are individuals that have the right to pusue their own destiny. I've seen numerous references to communism and "1984", but these examples slide right off because they "know the way to purity and light".

Obama has stated that he's not after guns. Pelosi and Biden have made no such statement. Those two are just getting warmed up.

I have never been an alarmist. I don't run around screaming "the sky is falling!" as thing usually work themselves out. This time I'm genuinely concerned. So heed the warnings guys........keep what you've got and stock up on what you can.

[waksupi]

I guess my point is, it is not all that easy to move into the mountains, and be able to make it. As was stated, hunting can't be relied on now, at least in this area. The wolves have taken care of that. Just learning good hunting areas could take several years, in the best of conditions.
If transportation should be disrupted, this valley could be put into serious food shortage in a couple days time. There are two highways going through the valley, and into rugged mountain terrain. The whole area could be blocked off, and people starved out.
As much as I hate gardening, I will be doing it this year. I started buying and collecting heirloom seeds last fall, when I saw which way the wind was blowing. I've also been buying a dozen canning jars when ever I think of it. I buy the sealer lids on every shopping trip.

[PatMarlin]

Fact is cast boolit brethren we have been here before in this country. We are still a free nation for the most part and free trade and commerce is alive and able despite the hills and valleys and .GOV obstacles in the way.

We are also a wealthy nation with resources yet- so all of this needs to be kept in mind. Be prepared as anyone with common sense will be, but we are far away from a doom and gloom breakdown.

You show me a supply source fail on one end, and there will be another company of resourceful individuals that will fill the need and profit from it. It's the American way, and we still have a good number of tough, smart, capable citizens amongst us.

We are a "can do" breed of people. Things are never as good as they seem, and never as bad as they seem.

I have a very clever friend who's a very successful business man, and he says instead of starting an uprising and revolt of violent means- he says to stop our government, we the American people should organize and bring legal action of "taxation without representation" against our politicians.

Bring file suit to each of them like Barney Frank and so on one by one... those who have screwed us, and have not done their jobs competently.

Use are constitution and legal system to our benefit. Makes sense to me.

[Dean D.]

I have a very clever friend who's a very successful business man, and he says instead of starting an uprising and revolt of violent means- he says to stop our government, we the American people should organize and bring legal action of "taxation without representation" against our politicians.

Bring file suit to each of them like Barney Frank and so on one by one... those who have screwed us, and have not done their jobs competently.

Use are constitution and legal system to our benefit. Makes sense to me.

I agree with your friend Pat. I see a strong case for negligence and dereliction of duty on the part of our politicians. I would join a class action suit on this. I do not have the financial resources to initiate something like this but I would sure participate if names are needed. :mad:

[mpmarty]

Agree wholeheartedly! Born and raised in the Pacific NW mountains and have no reason to accept foreigners from such places as California or Arizona. The population in a fifty mile radius of my property is less than 25,000 people and it will probably stay that way. Plenty of turkey, deer, elk and fish in the rivers and streams.

[PatMarlin]

I got you beat Marty.

Our population within more than that radius is less than 13,000 and that's in California!

Not all californians are mindless sheep running to a state near you ...:mrgreen:

[rhead]

If you decide to flee to the northwest or some other section of the country known as the "Boonies" Just be aware that the game will not support the population already there as far as living of the land goes. It is not a matter of not welcoming you it is that if that is your plan you will starve.
Plan of farming. Bring your own farming equipment. Hoes, Shovels, push plows, axes hand operated tools, grist mills, and such. Also bring enough seed to plant your crops after you buy and clear your own land. You will need enough food to keep yourself and you family fed until your crop comes in. It isn't easy work and it does take a bit of specialized knowedge and skill. Will you know which crops will do well in your indended landing spot? I doubt if any of the locals will be hiring very much help for a few years.
The food we are planning on eating next winter will be planted by a farmer who needs to borrow the money for seed and fertlizer from a bank that is not loaning any out. Maybe things will get better but I still intend to plant a larger garden this year.

[Bullshop]

Pat
Perhaps your friend is a wise man but also perhaps he has reversed the order of the way things will be.
Perhaps it will be the government forces bearings arms against us as individuals until we organise to resist them.
If I am right then we will require something with more emediat results than legal manouvering.
I expect them to pick us off one at a time like snipers until whoever is left can see the truth and not worship what the media feeds them.
You see it is not we that are forcing the issue of bearing arms against a comon enemy but that enemy that is forcing us to our last resort.
I have a great fear for the safty of those that are just now considering a life style that I have spent most of my life living and thank God that he gave me the forsight.
I am no longer a radicle, Praise God!
Blessings
BIC/BS
Blessings

[felix]

Does not make sense to me, Pat. A court system will do no good if the Constitution does no good. What about the Jews in Hitler's Germany? No court would have done them any good because the courts, if any, were already bought and paid for. ... felix

[oldtoolsniper]

Lets take a look at just the simple things most of us take for granted. Gun cleaning supplies comes to mind. Not for sale in California. Take a look at just about any kind of “Evil “chemical out there and it will say “known to cause cancer in the state of California” or “Not for use or sale in California” again this is just one of those little things no one seems to care about. I was stationed there as a Marine till 2004 and I lived the first part of what I am sure has only gotten way worse.

Yes they are trying to regulate dust. Imagine what that is going to do to the farmers here in Iowa and then imagine what it will do to your food prices. How do you combine corn with no dust?

How does the UPS truck bringing your latest purchase drive down a gravel road and not create dust?

Too many people have forgotten how to think critically in this country and blindly allow the government to do it for them. If it does not directly affect them at that moment they just don’t care.

We are the government. We voted for those who lead us.

You would be stunned to see how many young Marines who were fighting in a war were amazed by the pride the average Iraqi citizen displayed after voting. They just could not get their heads around it. Surprise, they do not see the importance of voting and their very lives depended on it. They just don’t vote.

Vote, it’s the most important thing you can do.

[klcarroll]

You would be stunned to see how many young Marines who were fighting in a war were amazed by the pride the average Iraqi citizen displayed after voting. They just could not get their heads around it. Surprise, they do not see the importance of voting and their very lives depended on it. They just don’t vote.

I have to say that that's a VERY insightful comment!

Kent

[Catshooter]

Vote, it’s the most important thing you can do.

With no disrespect oldtoolsniper, I have voted in every election since I was old enough, 1968. Doesn't seem to have done much good now, does it? In fact I have been a single issue (freedom) voter since about Carter.

I know what can happen when the citizens perceive that they are powerless to correct wrongs and it ani't pretty. This is the biggest reason the politicaians who are for gun control are for gun control. Ten thousand angry people are scary, if they're armed it's terrifiying.

When I retired/moved away from the Left Coast I picked a tiny town in South Dakota. It was no accident. I was hoping I could get here in time; I think I have.


Cat

[oldtoolsniper]

I do not believe that anyone who comes to this site doesn’t vote. That was not my point. There are far to many people in this country who think it’s not important and it does not matter. We live in America what could possibly go wrong? Yes voting is insignificant.

[Recluse]

I guess my point is, it is not all that easy to move into the mountains, and be able to make it. As was stated, hunting can't be relied on now, at least in this area. The wolves have taken care of that. Just learning good hunting areas could take several years, in the best of conditions.

I hear you five by five, Waksupi. . . believe me.

I gotta very good friend up in New York City. Very well-off businessman in Manhatten. He took some other businessmen up into the New York "wilderness" around Plattsburgh. These guys were talking about "hauling butt up north" if things got bad. He kinda snorted and told them they'd never make it. One thing led to another and he offered to prove it.

Now, my buddy was a green beanie over in SE Asia and has never lost his woodsman skills. He comes down here to our place one year; we journey up to his the other year. He's got a nice lodge not far from Binghamton, with a good patch of land on it as well as a nice grass runway. He's ready.

These three other guys he took up didn't even last two nights. . . Gave it up and asked him to take them home. But first they had to stop at a hotel for a hot shower and shave, hot meal. . . :rolleyes:

I suspect a lot of wimpies will have similar experiences if they just "think" they can flee to the wilderness and live like Daniel Boone.


If transportation should be disrupted, this valley could be put into serious food shortage in a couple days time. There are two highways going through the valley, and into rugged mountain terrain. The whole area could be blocked off, and people starved out.

Another advantage me and my pals got--and why I doubt too many folks up there would rebuke us. We're all pilots. There are two Super Cubs and one Husky at the ranch. We've all done some bush-flying. None of us are "expert" bush pilots by any stretch. But we're all also plenty comfortable putting those birds down in places city pilots would never dare dream of. I've flown that Husky all around the ranch dropping salt licks when roads were impassable due to snow or mud.

And in bad times, we could just as easily drop food, supplies, arms, ammo. . . Can also serve as a mini air ambulance if someone gets in a bind.

For as much of a loner as I often prefer to be, I am also a firm believer in community and in taking care of our own. Likeminded patriotic and brave people who gather to regroup because they are fed up with what's happened in their nation? Hey, I'll take all of 'em I can find 'cause that's the only way things will ever change back should events and times dictate that necessity.


As much as I hate gardening, I will be doing it this year. I started buying and collecting heirloom seeds last fall, when I saw which way the wind was blowing. I've also been buying a dozen canning jars when ever I think of it. I buy the sealer lids on every shopping trip.

My wife loves gardening, but hates canning. I'm kinda ambivelant about both. Growing up in farm and ranch country, it wouldn't bother me terribly if I never had to hoe another stinking row of cotton or maze or wheat ever again. If I never had to shuck another green bean or shell another black-eyed pea, I could sleep just as well at night.

But I thank God I know how to do it and have done it. And I sincerely pray to God that if I ever do it again, it is out of choice and not necessity.

:coffee:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

OldTool, Your right on target, we the people of the USA have gotten so complacent it is about to cost us our free society. Our youngsters are not taught what we were in school 40 or more years ago, the new liberal/socialist/commie way of thinking is sinking our country, in a hurry. Wake UP America !:(
Semper Fi, another old Marine 8651, Nam 66-69

[Gohon]

With no disrespect oldtoolsniper, I have voted in every election since I was old enough, 1968. Doesn't seem to have done much good now, does it?

But that's where you are wrong. You see, even if what you voted for was on the losing side, your vote was part of the recording percentages. Take for example Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. They win each election with high percentages. Mostly because a lot of voters don't bother to turn out because they know these two will win. As a consequences these two people don't care what the rest of the country thinks because they know they are locked in every year with a high percentage win. Now if they were winning with only 51%-52%, they would be a little more cautious because they would have to worry about the next election. Just ask Tom Daschle what it's like to play with fire with a low percentage win. Every vote does count, win or lose.

[Recluse]

Gohon, very wise and astute observations. A lot of gun owners and conservatives would do well to think the same way.

:coffee:

[klcarroll]

I always vote; ……For exactly the same reasons that Gohon cited:

......Although it does sometimes seem like I'm pissing on a forest fire!

Kent

[DtheD]

Getting back to the original idea/questions about stocking up on shooting supplies here is a link to an article I read online this a.m. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/mattis1.html

I realize this is just one man's opinionbut is food for thought.

[madsenshooter]

All of this talk about primer hoarding has started me wondering: .......Just what is a reasonable "shelf life" for modern, commercial primers that are still in their original boxes???

In getting set up to reload again, I came across a couple of thousand CCI primers that have been sitting in an ammo can for twenty years. I was going to throw them out, .....but now I'm having second thoughts!

Kent

You can throw them to me, I'll test them and let you know about their viabilty. Sitting in an ammo can, I'd be pretty sure they're good.

[mike in co]

You can throw them to me, I'll test them and let you know about their viabilty. Sitting in an ammo can, I'd be pretty sure they're good.


guys,
i'd like to point out that in all the reloading we do, the primer is the only explosive. powder burns, some times very rapidly, but not an explosive, esp in the current plastic jugs.

now, putting primers in a sealed ammo can is a bomb waiting for ignition. if you have a house fire...it is a bomb....do not store primers sealed in metal containers....

[oldtoolsniper]

Gohon,
I see your point and you are right. All the way to the top.

[armyrat1970]

guys,
i'd like to point out that in all the reloading we do, the primer is the only explosive. powder burns, some times very rapidly, but not an explosive, esp in the current plastic jugs.

now, putting primers in a sealed ammo can is a bomb waiting for ignition. if you have a house fire...it is a bomb....do not store primers sealed in metal containers....

How would you suggest to store them? I keep all of my primers wrapped in individual plastic sandwich bags and inside a sealed tupper ware container. Not in my fireproff safe with my powders and ammo but in a locked wooden cabinet. Maybe I should keep my powders and ammo in the cabinet and my primers in my safe. I don't store them together. But if I ever had a fire in my house the amount of powder I have would cause greater damage than the amount of primers I have. If they explode, it's just a small explosion. Not like ten pounds of powder.

Everyone read the Declaration of Independence again. If it ever comes down to us having to abolish our government, I hope it happens in my lifetime and not my childrens. They listen to nothing I have to say and have no clue how to survive in bad times. They make fun of me because I purchase gas mask and thyro block and water filters and purifiers. They think I'm a nut because I purchase different weapons and supplies. Because I like to store can goods and MRE's. I buy space blankets, medical supplies and books and field packs. Army field surgical kits and such supplies. Snake bite kits. I can stich you up with a bad cut or wound with my surgical kits. (It would be better than you bleeding to death). (Hey, I can even help you with a sucking chest wound until I can get you some real help) I have maps and a lenstatic compass. Beau-coop knives, swords and weapons and ammo. And I cast and handload. I know I don't have it all together but I'm workin' on it.

[klcarroll]

@Armyrat1970;

I have to reply here in order to give you a big “Thumbs-Up”!!!

Back when I worked a retail counter in a gun store, I used to deal with “Fake Survivalists” all the time!!

…..All they could talk about was how many guns, and how much ammo they had stockpiled! ……And when I casually asked them how much food and what kind of Medical Supplies they had stockpiled, …..all I got was a blank stare!

That Blank Stare told me the real truth: …..If a serious “disruption” in our society were to occur, …..these guys were going to turn into the very “predatory animals” that they were warning us about!!!!! ……If all you have is guns and ammunition, you will be forced to use them to get the basics like food and medicine!!

Your post focuses on the reality of things! …..If one is to “make it” in “Difficult Times”, you need a lot more than a gun and some bullets!

……Unless one is willing to become part of the problem, …instead of being part of the solution!

In the Real World, a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin tablets is worth an ammo can full of .308 on any day of the week!

Kent

[oldtoolsniper]

I would look up the DOT regulations on primers and powder. I transported ammunition for a few years while in the Marine Corps and we were required to store and transport all blasting caps, powder, fuses and primers (for Artillery shells) in metal cans. Ammo cans as most folks call them. I have been to ammunition supply points and tons upon tons of this stuff are stored this way. I crossed Oregon and Washington state many times loaded with tons of explosives in Ammo cans as per DOT regulations.

[rhead]

In the Real World, a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin tablets is worth an ammo can full of .308 on any day of the week!

[I] believe it takes a perscription to get the 500's. The 250's ar avalinle over the counter at the pet supply stores. If you can't count to two taking the medicine will probably be a waste.
Army rat: You probably have some things that you will not need. If I knew which it was I could advise you on what to sell and what to double up on.

[armyrat1970]

In the Real World, a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin tablets is worth an ammo can full of .308 on any day of the week!

[I] believe it takes a perscription to get the 500's. The 250's ar avalinle over the counter at the pet supply stores. If you can't count to two taking the medicine will probably be a waste.
Army rat: You probably have some things that you will not need. If I knew which it was I could advise you on what to sell and what to double up on.

I don't believe I have anything I will not need except for maybe to much surplus ammo and rifle. The old K98 is a fine shooting weapon but won't do much good if I can't carry around all the ammo I need for it. I would go with a smaller caliber weapon. My basic survival weapons would be my 10-22 and my H&R 22 revolver. You can carry a lot of ammo for that and I have dropped deer with a 22 rifle at 75yrds with a single head shot. It will put meat in the pot and drop a man also. It is also a lot quieter. Of course my Mossburg 500 Special Purpose, 45 and 223, 30carbine and 357 will remain as long as possible. Have beau-coop American Survivalist mags. I have books on herbs, home health remedies, healing herbs, how to do just about anything, the Special Forces Medical Handbook and the military issue Improvised Munitions Handbook.
And you're right about medicines. I have a couple of aquariums and while at the local pet store was eyeballing some of the meds they have there. Hey. It's the same thing you are prescribed by your doc. Maybe even more pure. Maybe a different dosage but you can buy it over the counter for your fish with no prescription needed. If you can add or subtract you can figure out what dosage will work for you. If you need to stich up a bad cut and have nothing to lesson the pain, Ambisol will probably work. Buy the cheaper Equate brand called Orasol. Hey. If it will stop a toothache?:drinks:

[armyrat1970]

@Armyrat1970;

I have to reply here in order to give you a big “Thumbs-Up”!!!

Back when I worked a retail counter in a gun store, I used to deal with “Fake Survivalists” all the time!!

…..All they could talk about was how many guns, and how much ammo they had stockpiled! ……And when I casually asked them how much food and what kind of Medical Supplies they had stockpiled, …..all I got was a blank stare!

That Blank Stare told me the real truth: …..If a serious “disruption” in our society were to occur, …..these guys were going to turn into the very “predatory animals” that they were warning us about!!!!! ……If all you have is guns and ammunition, you will be forced to use them to get the basics like food and medicine!!

Your post focuses on the reality of things! …..If one is to “make it” in “Difficult Times”, you need a lot more than a gun and some bullets!

……Unless one is willing to become part of the problem, …instead of being part of the solution!

In the Real World, a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin tablets is worth an ammo can full of .308 on any day of the week!

Kent

Kent you are right. The ones that only have guns will be the predators taking from the ones that have more, but can't protect themselves. Not that they would be "BAD" people, but necessity for survival will drive them to doing things they may not other wise do.

[zampilot]

"a bottle of 500mg Amoxicillin tablets is worth an ammo can full of .308 on any day of the week!"

Not when I am allergic to all the 'cillins!!

[Mtman314]

My kids also harrass me but they also realize that when the crap hits the fan Dad will be at least in most areas ready. Folks attempt to peg me as a nut. I say it like this. I prepare for the worst and hope and pray for the best. Also that the worst never comes. If it does I'll be ready and if it doesn't then I'm just living the way I want to live.

[Bret4207]

I understand the point Waksupi and Kawfeegod are making: ......Historically, Refugees have never been welcomed in the lands they flee to.

....But here in the U.S., .....if we turn our backs on like-minded people; ......Haven't we just done half of "The Opposition's" work for them??

If the time comes when significant numbers of people are willing to give up their homes, jobs and family ties to flee oppression, then we must face the fact that we have reached a point of crisis!

….And I want to gently remind all that this country wasn’t founded with the tactic of “Hiding in the Hills”; ……..And that tactic will NOT save it now!

EVERYONE needs to understand that when we reach the “Crisis Point”, fleeing to the “Great Northwest” is not the answer: …….But neither is “Hunkering Down and Waiting It Out”!


Kent

The problem is that when those people all start fleeing the cities it isn't going to be "like minded people", it's going to be porch monkeys, drug dealers and very desperate men with kids to feed and shelter that are completely out of their element and looking for any hole they can find. Read "Lucifers Hammer" for a very tame idea idea of what I mean. It won't be people coming prepared to survive, it'll be people coming to TAKE to survive. I have a nice little farm here with lotsa room. I could probably support 5 or 6 families here, but I'm not supporting anyone but my own. You want to live on my farm you do things my way, when I say to do it, how I say to do it and exactly as I say to do it or you hit the road and that's after you gain admittance which isn't happening if you don;t bring skills, tools and something of intrinsic value to pay with. No one is going to open a commune for strays and magically make food and shelter appear.

I guess my point is I have very, very little faith in the goodness of mankind in the best of circumstances. In the worst case scenario I have none.

[PatMarlin]

I think I would take heed to Bret's estimation of mand kind in troubled moments.

What is shocking is the number of orginized crime gangs. These thugs will take life and property at a drop of a hat.

If things ever get to that point it wil get ugly, and folks with property in rural areas will protect it.

[686]

i think people are not stockong up, i think they are buying extrs compontants before they realr get hard to find. this is for the sport of target shooting. not for a take over of some kind. they are not buying extra for a storm they want to have extra to target shoot. the ammo you need for a take over is not much and you do not shoot it, the gun just sits there loaded. the ammo you need for fun is a lots and you go through it fast and all the time. just my 2/c

[Heavy lead]

"Hiding in the Hills" will only be for regrouping, we or whomever hides in the hills will come back down. Myself, I'm far enough out, I won't be going to the northwest or anywhere else. Oh, and the inner city folk, other than family or friends will not be welcome. For the most part they are the ones that have put us in this mess.

[PatMarlin]

Barter will spring up with small groups of folks. I see it happening now. One lady has eggs, another home offers meat. Others supply labor for building and firewood or repairs.

Your word and reputation will allow you in, or ...out.

One big problem for some would be the absense of public governmental services such as medical, and fire fighting.

Having skills will go along way.

[PatMarlin]

Ammo's one thing but what everyone here should have hands down is one of these:

http://www.aquarain.com/

You can scoop water up out of a puddle and purify it. We've got 10 years on the same filters for kitchen cooking and drinking water as they are simply regenerated by scubbing and boiling.

I would not be without one and an extra set of filters incase you break one,.

[felix]

All of you are in trouble.
The population of this country is 300 million.
160 million are retired.
That leaves 140 million to do the work.
There are 85 million in school.
Which leaves 55 million to do the work.
Of this there are 35 million employed by the federal government.
Leaving 15 million to do the work.
2.8 million are in the armed forces preoccupied with Bin-Laden.
Which leaves 12.2 million to do the work.
There 10.8 million people who work for state and city Governments.
And that leaves 1.4 million to do the work.
At any given time there are 188,000 people in hospitals.
Leaving 1,212,000 to do the work.
Now, there are 1,211,998 people in prisons.
That leaves just two people to do the work.
You and me.
And there you are, sitting on your rear.
At your computer, reading jokes.
Nice. Real nice.
So, get to work.
Just for me.

[snaggdit]

The big cities are not really going to be a problem if things go south. In the mind of the porch monkeys and drug dealers, there is nothing else besides the city. They will kill each other off over dwindling resources, and will never consider leaving what they know. The suburbanites are the trouble. The guy with a portable generator and a couple weeks of Mountain House foods stored will decide he needs to evacuate to the hills. No plan, no honed survival skills, nothing to offer. And, from what I have seen in our little tourist town, a mindset that they deserve everything and will take it by force if necessary.

[Recluse]

"Hiding in the Hills" will only be for regrouping, we or whomever hides in the hills will come back down. Myself, I'm far enough out, I won't be going to the northwest or anywhere else. Oh, and the inner city folk, other than family or friends will not be welcome. For the most part they are the ones that have put us in this mess.

Agree 100%. My original "head for the NW" statement was for the purposes of grouping with like-minded patriots and veterans, resting, and then coming back to down to reclaim our country.

I used to smile politely and then divert my attention elsewhere thirty years ago when I would hear people talk of "this nation's second Revolution is coming and you better be prepared."

Now I frown and pay close attention.

:coffee:

[bbs70]

I'm not a survivalist.
Growing up I worked to support my mother and sister.
Got married and worked to give my wife and children shelter, food, and extras.
With shift work, working hoildays, weekends, and overtime, I never had the time to acquire the skills to be a survivalist.
Truthfully, I never thought about it.

Lately I have come to the conclusion that I need to learn more.
I believe anyone can survive when it comes down to it, but there are those who would rather take the easy way and take from others.
Those people are the ones who worry me.

What really concerns me these days is people's mentality.
Just yesterday morning a guy walked into a church in Maryville, Il (30 miles from me) and shot the preacher while he was giving a sermon.
No one as of yet knows the reason for the shooting.

School shootings, gang shootings, drug related shootings, etc.
You are never sure where, if anywhere, you and your family are safe.
Its a shame you can't even go to church without worrying about being shot.
And in this state we have no concealed carry.
They say we don't need it.
Of course the ones saying we don't need it are the ones who have armed security around them and high priced alarm systems in their homes.

There is a 1 1/2 mile long bike path leading to the neighboring town, when I take my dog for a walk on it and pass someone, I wonder if they are looking for someone to rob to get drug money.
I'm probably being paranoid, but these days it pays to be cautious.
What a shame you have to live like that.

Give me 20 acres, razor wire, claymores, and my guns, and I think I could be happy.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Felix, very good read on where we are, you left out the 15 Million Illegals that are here to take what ever they can get for nothing, all they have to do is break the law and now congress and the Messiah are going to give them Social Security benefits!!!! Conclusion: Crime really does Pay!! :Fire:

[Recluse]

Barter will spring up with small groups of folks. I see it happening now. One lady has eggs, another home offers meat. Others supply labor for building and firewood or repairs.

Your word and reputation will allow you in, or ...out.

One big problem for some would be the absense of public governmental services such as medical, and fire fighting.

Having skills will go along way.

Pat, thanks for the link to that water filter. Slick device. Real slick.

You're dead-on right about barter and skills. I grew up in farm and ranch country. I remember all the men-folks going over to a neighbor's place to raise a barn. Women folk cooked while we swung hammers and pulled on winches raising walls, etc. The youngersters ran and fetched nails, more hammers, tools, etc.

Everyone worked. Everyone contributed. And when the four walls were up and secured and the day was done, everyone sat down together and ate. I miss that kind of kindred spirit. In today's cities, a lot of people don't even know much of anything about their immediate neighbors.

As I told Waksupi in an earlier post, I'm fortunate in that while I live in a metro area now, I was born and raised in rural Texas. I feel like Hank Williams, Jr., in his song "Country Boy Can Survive." I can run a trot line, skin a buck, shoot a shotgun, etc etc. All things I've taken for granted my entire life. But on a few "camping" excursions years ago with other guys from my old office job, those yo-yos (changing my description so as not to offend those for whom the shoe fits :rolleyes:), didn't even know how to build a proper fire.

They also didn't know how to string a bear bag. Didn't know how to purify water for drinking (if it didn't already come in a bottle and say Evian or Ozarka, they were lost). Didn't know how to even clean the cast iron skillet after cooking--looked at me like I was crazy when I crumpled up a piece of aluminum foil and used it as a scouring pad. Didn't know fillet a fish. Only one of them knew how to shoot a gun. Their woodsman skills were non-existent; you could hear them coming from a mile away.

But they were all big talkers about "when it's time to head for the hills." And they looked like they stepped right out of the pages of an LL Bean catalogue.

You're right--having skills, and not just survival skills--will go a long way. The folks that will have a hard time doing without government services will be the first to perish. Fires? Everyone pitches in to fight a fire. Medical services? Amazing number of medical professionals who are as fed up as the rest of us. They'll be available. There are societies within societies--and folks who think like us are no exception. It will simply be a matter of those sub-societies forming and then finding each other.

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

I once read there are two kinds of "survivalists- the Farmers and the Rambos. One group is into non- confrontational "we'll all work together" thinking and the other is into gear, gear, gear and lotsa bullets and guns. IMO neither group will survive with just those skills/gear and neither will be able to hold out indefinitely in their "retreats". It's going to take a broad range of skills and knowledge and more importantly a community that can work together to an extent to make it all work.

I don't think Hank Williams Jr ever thought the whole thing out. The country boy won't survive without a bunch of other country boys to trade and work with.

[waksupi]

I've been in the mountain man association for over 35 years, and know there are a lot of them that would starve in a supermarket, if they couldn't find the aisle with the can openers.
I spent many of those years, living in the mountains with a pack and rifle, learning how to not just survive, but live comfortably. I would go for a couple weeks at a time usually, carrying no food to speak of, and depending on what water I could find, drinking from elk tracks when necessary, and eating mushrooms for moisture when no water was available. I found out that pine squirrels are edible, but just barely! I learned how to make a comfortable camp in sub zero weather, when a person with brains would be in a cabin by a nice fire.
It is good to have a reliable network, but you can not always depend on it. Educate yourself.

[mpmarty]

When TSHTF the only folks that will be welcome on my mountain already live on or around it. See my avatar. There are about thirty five of us. Fifteen men with military experience a few without and the rest women and (3) children.

There is only one way into our mountain and it is a twisting mile long gravel drive that climbs over a thousand feet from the valley floor. We already have PIR sensors and "other" things that will alert us to intruders and or "discourage" trespassers.

Some of us work away from our homes for a few weeks at a time but never more than a few of us at any one time. We are generally ex military types who now work as construction contractors or consultants to various corporations.

We aren't waiting for "something" to happen. We hope it never happens and enjoy our rural and peaceful lifestyles. We are too close (within a tankful of gas) to a large city with over 200,000 people in it and so we are defense oriented and have planned for interlocking fields of fire.

[earplug]

What style of government are we working on retaking?
Hopefully we can have our republic and states rights returned.
I'm worried that after a revolution. A mob rule democracy will become a dictatorship.
I want the people that talk about taking back our country to be well read and understand the principles that our founding fathers put into our nation.
Sadly, as were now a simple minded democracy, were ruled by the 51% who want stuff for nothing.

[mpmarty]

Yes that is absolutely correct. We need to revert to the constitutionally defined government we are supposed to have.

As Maggie Thatcher said, "The trouble with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other peoples money".

[PatMarlin]

As Maggie Thatcher said, "The trouble with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other peoples money".

That's a good one.

[Goatlips]

I just learned of a movement that would affect the rounding up of our brass, primers, and powder so I thought this a good place to post it. Some of you may remember the "29 palms questionnaire" on whether our military would participate in confiscation.

http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html

Goatlips

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Goat Lips, good post, and yes there are those of us who swore to defend the constitution against any enemy, Foreign or DOMESTIC.....and this administration and it's appointies and the head of the House and Senate are sizing up as domestic terrorists. They are selling our country to "Communist" China, or have we forgotten about the commies ???[smilie=1:

[Dean D.]

Goatlips, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I will be passing the word and link to friends and family.

[sundog]

wow, 7 pages of pontificating over the 'shortage' (glut). Capitalism at it's finest! Supply and demand! Actually, it's a good thing. Next time I buy, everthang on the vendor's shelf will be nice and fresh. Might pay a bit more, but when I put it on MY shelf, it will last until I use it up. Ask the suppliers if there is a recession.

[mike in co]

maybe some one can explain to me how anyone much less the military knows who has reloading components.

this is more bs from rumor mongerers....
sundog has it right, some of you need to close ur ' mouths, and open your brain.......


check it out prior to reacting.....


mike in co

[Recluse]

maybe some one can explain to me how anyone much less the military knows who has reloading components.

this is more bs from rumor mongerers....
sundog has it right, some of you need to close ur ' mouths, and open your brain.......


check it out prior to reacting.....


mike in co

Mike, there is an old saying that goes, "Physician, heal thyself." Good advice in your case. Before you go telling others to close their mouths and open their minds, try it yourself.

Anyone who has ever used a credit card to purchase guns, reloading supplies, ammunition, etc etc, has willingly supplied a record, ie "database," of their purchasing history. This also applies to purchases of tennis shoes, clothes, appliances, cruises, doctor's visits or even groceries or using a credit card to pay bills.

The credit card companies can't sell this information fast enough and will sell it to anyone who wishes to buy it. They will also sell it as many times as they can. Direct response marketers are not the only people who buy this information. Universities buy it for research strata formulations, government agencies (especially Department of Commerce and Department of Health & Human Services) buy it for a host of reasons. GAO buys it as a predictor for future prices on goods the government may be bidding on or contracting for, etc etc.

I'm not a Big Brother conspiracist. But I'm also not a bit trusting of Big Brother. If the government wants to know who has purchased reloading components in the past three years, they can find that out PDQ. And, it's even easier to expedite it since the major banks issue the credit cards and the major banks just got bailed out by Big Brother.

Now whether or not Big Bubba is conspiring to take my reloading stuff away, I have no idea--nor is that the issue. You brought up "how would anyone know?" and then proceeded to admonish folks to close their mouth and open their brain.

I'm simply giving you but a small--very small--example of just how easy it is for "anyone" to get that information in this day and age.

:coffee:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Agreed Recluse, some people need to respect the idea that we all have opinions, and are Free to express them, if you don't agree, fine, but I don't think this is the place to be telling anyone to shut up and do anything....if you had an open mind you would not jump so quick to the conclusion to tell other to shut up..IMHO.

[armyrat1970]

The problem is that when those people all start fleeing the cities it isn't going to be "like minded people", it's going to be porch monkeys, drug dealers and very desperate men with kids to feed and shelter that are completely out of their element and looking for any hole they can find. Read "Lucifers Hammer" for a very tame idea idea of what I mean. It won't be people coming prepared to survive, it'll be people coming to TAKE to survive. I have a nice little farm here with lotsa room. I could probably support 5 or 6 families here, but I'm not supporting anyone but my own. You want to live on my farm you do things my way, when I say to do it, how I say to do it and exactly as I say to do it or you hit the road and that's after you gain admittance which isn't happening if you don;t bring skills, tools and something of intrinsic value to pay with. No one is going to open a commune for strays and magically make food and shelter appear.

I guess my point is I have very, very little faith in the goodness of mankind in the best of circumstances. In the worst case scenario I have none.

I like your attitude. If the time comes that my family and I ever have to flee this sesspool of a city called the "Big Easy" New Orleans, La. I hope I can find someone like you to group with. I remained here during Katrina and sent my family to Florida. I hung up a flag outside and a sign that read I survived Hurrican Betsy, Vietnam and Katrina. Had to much stuff to carry and was not going to allow my home to be ransacked by the looting that I knew was going to and did happen all around me. Some passed through the area but when they saw me outside with my 45 on my hip and my Mossberg 500 Special Purpose in my hand they didn't come back around. I protected my neighbors homes and generaly watched over the neighborhood. I have skills, tools and don't ever sit around with my finger up my butt. I'm x Army. Vietnam Vet. Wheel and track machanic and construction engineer. In civilian life welder/fitter, heavy equipment operater and although I've never handled a big rig I can drive the wheels off just about anything. I ain't no ANGEL though. Even though a little older, some things don't change. I am a dependable, stand up dude and thats what people will have to look for when TSHTF. My word is my word and my honor. I don't bite my tongue much. I like a good firm handshake. I try to leave no reason for someone to come back and ask me why I made such a mess of things on my job. I like to hear, I can see Warren did it because it's done right. And I'm trusted to do it right the first time. Any questions, I have no problems with asking them and have no problems with answering them.

[armyrat1970]

Ammo's one thing but what everyone here should have hands down is one of these:

http://www.aquarain.com/

You can scoop water up out of a puddle and purify it. We've got 10 years on the same filters for kitchen cooking and drinking water as they are simply regenerated by scubbing and boiling.

I would not be without one and an extra set of filters incase you break one,.

Pat thanks for that link. It would be a lot easier to find meat than it would be to find good pure drinking water. I have fasted for 21 days, working as a welder in the heat of the summer in Southeast Louisiana without a piece of food, but the human body cannot go very long without water. I have a First Needs water filter/purifier but it does not compare to the aquarain.
Thanks

[Bret4207]

I like your attitude. If the time comes that my family and I ever have to flee this sesspool of a city called the "Big Easy" New Orleans, La. I hope I can find someone like you to group with. I remained here during Katrina and sent my family to Florida. I hung up a flag outside and a sign that read I survived Hurrican Betsy, Vietnam and Katrina. Had to much stuff to carry and was not going to allow my home to be ransacked by the looting that I knew was going to and did happen all around me. Some passed through the area but when they saw me outside with my 45 on my hip and my Mossberg 500 Special Purpose in my hand they didn't come back around. I protected my neighbors homes and generaly watched over the neighborhood. I have skills, tools and don't ever sit around with my finger up my butt. I'm x Army. Vietnam Vet. Wheel and track machanic and construction engineer. In civilian life welder/fitter, heavy equipment operater and although I've never handled a big rig I can drive the wheels off just about anything. I ain't no ANGEL though. Even though a little older, some things don't change. I am a dependable, stand up dude and thats what people will have to look for when TSHTF. My word is my word and my honor. I don't bite my tongue much. I like a good firm handshake. I try to leave no reason for someone to come back and ask me why I made such a mess of things on my job. I like to hear, I can see Warren did it because it's done right. And I'm trusted to do it right the first time. Any questions, I have no problems with asking them and have no problems with answering them.

AR, that's all well and good. The problem is if TSHTF you aren't going to be able to get close enough to let me know all that stuff. The shooting commences at 500 yards.......

[mike in co]

Mike, there is an old saying that goes, "Physician, heal thyself." Good advice in your case. Before you go telling others to close their mouths and open their minds, try it yourself.

Anyone who has ever used a credit card to purchase guns, reloading supplies, ammunition, etc etc, has willingly supplied a record, ie "database," of their purchasing history. This also applies to purchases of tennis shoes, clothes, appliances, cruises, doctor's visits or even groceries or using a credit card to pay bills.

The credit card companies can't sell this information fast enough and will sell it to anyone who wishes to buy it. They will also sell it as many times as they can. Direct response marketers are not the only people who buy this information. Universities buy it for research strata formulations, government agencies (especially Department of Commerce and Department of Health & Human Services) buy it for a host of reasons. GAO buys it as a predictor for future prices on goods the government may be bidding on or contracting for, etc etc.

I'm not a Big Brother conspiracist. But I'm also not a bit trusting of Big Brother. If the government wants to know who has purchased reloading components in the past three years, they can find that out PDQ. And, it's even easier to expedite it since the major banks issue the credit cards and the major banks just got bailed out by Big Brother.

Now whether or not Big Bubba is conspiring to take my reloading stuff away, I have no idea--nor is that the issue. You brought up "how would anyone know?" and then proceeded to admonish folks to close their mouth and open their brain.

I'm simply giving you but a small--very small--example of just how easy it is for "anyone" to get that information in this day and age.

:coffee:

for the record MY CC COMPANY records my gun related purchases as "lesure and sports"

some of my businesses report under generic business names........

sorry i just dont buy big government doing this...just plain bs.

each to thier own

mike in co( off to the gun show to earn my living)

[exile]

As a friend of mine once said, they will probably go house to house when they get ready to confiscate this stuff, so records won't matter anyway. I do agree though that credit card companies will probably supply all this information at will anyway. All they have to do though is get a list of all the pro-gun organizations membership (NRA, GOA, JPFO, SEF, etc.,) and go from that. No, I don't think they will give it up willingly, but it won't matter if they are all dead. Also, there will always be some informant in your little town (and mine) who will be willing to give up names of those with guns (see civiian security force). Yes I do believe this administration will go that far. I would make some brave statement about fighting back, but my health ain't so great.

exile

[Recluse]

for the record MY CC COMPANY records my gun related purchases as "lesure and sports"

some of my businesses report under generic business names........

sorry i just dont buy big government doing this...just plain bs.

each to thier own

mike in co( off to the gun show to earn my living)

Mike, "leisure and sports" comes up on your statements. Believe me, there is a hard record of every item purchased during a transaction and it is almost always for sale--and not to just the highest bidder, but ANYONE who is willing to pay.

Long time ago, I used to work in law enforcement for Uncle Sam. We got a warrant handed to us to arrest a registered sex offender (before they were "registered sex offenders" and were just plain old perverts). The evidence for arrest was given to us by his credit card company--he'd made mail-order purchases of kiddie-pornography.

Mike, this was over 25 years ago before Al Gore invented the internet. We didn't need a warrant for that information, we didn't have to "threaten or bully" the CC issuer, nothing. We asked, they gave.

Now, with the Patriot Act and other lesser known nebulous encroachments on our civil liberties, freedoms and RIGHTS, just about whatever Uncle Sam wants in terms of information on his subjects, he can get. Easily and quickly.

The perfect analogy is the frog and boiling water. These encroachments have happened so gradually and so subtle that most of us have barely noticed. Now that they are in place, we can only "trust" that our elected officials will never abuse such authority and power. :rolleyes:

So what do we do? Quit using credit cards? Not really feasible for most of us. I use a check/debit card dedicated solely for online/mail-order purchases. I've simply had to accept that at any given time, any given entity can learn whether or not I ordered extra cheese on my pizza the last time I called Pizza Hut.

All that junk mail you and your neighbors get? Ever wonder how they can target you so specifically. . . ? Database/information marketing has been the hottest area of marketing for the past fifteen plus years.

I'm not paranoid about "covering my tracks" on all purchases; just simply cognizant that my information--and yours--is out there for sale to anyone who wants to purchase it.

Have a great gun show and enjoy the multitudes of good people out shopping and browsing.

:coffee:

[exile]

I just went back and read all of this thread. My two cents worth is, Obama is in office now. I am 48 years old, as far as I can see, the liberals have been waiting for this moment for 50 years. All bets are off. As a former liberal who has been a conservative for 26 years (due to a Christian conversion) I don't think we appreciate the hatred that liberals have for the values expressed on this board. They would not mind if we were all in concentration camps or dead. In fact, I think they would prefer it.

In my opinion, it is impossible to restore the values that gave birth to this country without a spiritual awakening. This country was founded on Christian principles supported by the Bill of Rights. But in my opinion, without the underpinning of those principles, the Bill of Rights means little. We talk alot about restoring America to what it once was, but what America was, and will probably never be again, was a Christian nation. We cannot have a rebirth of a nation in an economic, political, or military sense when our spiritual underpinnings are gone. Just ask the Brits. There was a time when the sun never set on the British Empire, but as their spiritual underpinnings became less important their political, economic, military influence began to decline.

I don't mean to be a naysayer, but I live in a small town of 4,000 people. Most of the folks in this town are related to my wife, a lot of the land is owned by those in her family or those she has known all her life. However, the people that share her values (and mine) are in their seventies, eighties, or nineties. Those with similar values left long ago to go to school or to the city to take a job. Having worked in many small rural communities in the past, I can say that what is true for us is probably true of a lot of rural communities. I am not trying to slam all those who live in the city, I am a city boy myself. What I am trying to say is that having land and reloading supplies alone will not save this country. I wish it were that simple. As my wife often says, there is not a lot of difference between a kid raised in the country or one raised in the city anymore. MTV has seen to that.

Our lives are pretty simple and revolve around my wife's family, the farm, our church, and for me, reloading and shooting. I hope that will continue, but I doubt it.

I am rambling, but my point is that the things that made this nation great are in many ways intangible, and those are the hardest things to preserve or retain. Despite living in a small town surrounded by relatives and friends, five minutes from the farm where my wife grew up, I am pessimistic about our chances for survival. Our current situation is not like anything we have seen before, or will probably ever see again. This is a spiritual battle as well as a political, economic, and military one. This is Barack Hussein Obama's administration, and once they get rolling they will make the Clinton administration look timid. I admire those of you who think this will all blow over, but I cannot share your optimism.

Having said all that, I am still buying what reloading supplies I can, enjoying reading "40 years with the 45-70" by Paul A. Matthews, and dreaming about working up loads for my new .327 Federal as finances and health permits.

Let the flaming begin.

exile

[felix]

Exile, check out the old testament. You will see that nations rose and fell several times for reasons you say are intangible. I would say the word of the Lord is tangible via Christ who was OBVIOUSLY physical. If you say you are Christian, you must exemplify it to be counted. ... felix

[Apache]

This thread is good to see in one way...bad in other ways.

There seem to be many of us that think the same way.....prepare for the worst and hope for the best. BUT, if things do get bad, we will do our part to keep our family and friends safe. Some seem to think we are crazy..but we don't really seem to care what they think...;)

Too bad there isn't some way to identify which are the "good guys" and which are "bad guys".....There are some really good folks that are going to be hurting when/if TSHTF. It would be nice to be able to help them.......IF they could be identified.

I live in the central Louisiana area, for the most part a rural type setting with conservative values. The city, of coarse, is not the same. My family and friends started planning to be self sufficient some time ago before it was "the thing to do"....as it is now. Saw this coming awhile ago.

I would suggest, for those that are preparing, getting more supplies than are needed...so as to help others that prove to be "like minded" when to time comes. There will be an exodus from the cities by both good and bad people. It would be nice to be able to tell the difference before I "dropped" the wrong people.

BTW.....I would hope to think that "good folks" would ASK for help....not try to steal it....hint, hint.

I would be willing to help anyone that asks, and will feel sorry for the ones that don't. Your values and morals, or lack thereof, will make or break you in the times ahead......should TSHTF.

[zampilot]

Gosh what a coincidence: all the components purchased by me on any credit card are now located in the woods or target berms. I just checked and they are all gone occifer, honest!:drinks:

[rhead]

I'm not paranoid about "covering my tracks" on all purchases; just simply cognizant that my information--and yours--is out there for sale to anyone who wants to purchase it.

I hope the time does not come when you wish that you had been. The problem with being paranoid is that when it becomes aparrent that you need to start it is time to be finishing up.

I don't think that we will see mass confiscations (though I may be wrong and don't really have an answer to it that involves my survival and keeping the guns). I think it more likely that we will see increases in taxes on the compenents for ammunition and the loaded rounds themselves. Hazmat-mat fee will go up and start including more items. The one has stated that he would like to see a 500% tax on all firearm related items. It won't happen all at once(froggie in the pan again). The shortages we are seeing now may be just a bubble caused by increased intrest in creating or increasing a stockpile out of concern that prices may increase as supplies decrease. To some extent it probably is and we will see a letup in the near future.

Twenty years from now this may be the good old days.

[Dean D.]

Cash on the barrel head is how I do my business. I've probably given Big Brother more info on this site than anywhere else. FWIW

[mike in co]

i have been working a gun show all day long. this afternoon one of my customers, a commercial reloader came by and told me my brass had just gone up in value.
scharch...a brass remanufacturing/brass manufacturing(top brass) company here in colorado, has been contacted and told the last batch of brass they bought at auction from the gov surplus process was IN ERROR AND THEY WERE COMING TO PICK THE BRASS UP!

i have asked you to confirm the letter, this would appear to do just that.


this will not help the supply of 223 brass through out the us, and worse for all taxpayers is that in this recession, our idiot politicians have decided that being anti-gun is more important than economic recovery. forcing the trashing of a valued comodity. assinine.......but we have people on this site that proudly admit to voting for him. stupid.

mike in co

[freedom475]

I would agree that it was Christian principles (and God's blessings) that made America Great. The falling/turning away from these principles/morals is what is causing it to fall.


I do not think it will be an all out door2door confiscation. It will be exactly like drugs. According to the popular vote and government control you have no right to be a loser, even in your own home. Unless of coarse it benifits the Government finacially, and then it is OK to turn grandma into a junky.


Much like tobacco...(have we forgotten the Boston Tea Party?).. taxes on gun stuff will be imposed to such and extent that most will not be able to afford to shoot and many will lose interest then laws will be passed to outlaw the possesion, use or manufacture of guns and ammo and anyone caught using or possessing will be labeled a psychopath and one at a time, quietly taken to jail or shot for being a psychopath.:holysheep

Little chance for a banding together, big war, revolution, riot, or uprising....just a complete brain washing of the majority who wants to be fed baby food and have there *$$ wiped by there government.

I prey that we see it on the horison and help ourselves and each other before it is too late.


God Bless America

[Down South]

If TSHTF, Then I’ll hunker down here. I’ve thought about heading to the hills (Mountains) but I think that’s what most other folks think too. I’ve got enough woods and hill country around here to have a place to hide out at if that ever becomes necessary. I already live out in what most classify as the sticks.

Thinking about a few of the previous posts on credit card info for reloading or gun related purchases, it would be almost impossible to check that kind of info because there is so much of it. If that does ever happen then most of us will have a heads up before the time door to door searches start and will have hid most of what we deem critical to us.

I talked of gardening earlier. A garden will be a must but will have to be guarded. My kids are starting to raise rabbits, chickens and hogs. I'm thinking about starting t raise a few head of cattle again. Stuff like that would have to be guarded too. I figure if the SHTF then the first ten years will be hell. It’ll take that long to purge most of the riff raft out.

[earplug]

Education of your neighbors about the truth of what our nation should be.
The Republic that our founders gave us has been destroyed by uneducated short sighted democracy. Democracy is mob rule at its best.
Only by education will any civil change be made of the current situation.

[freedom475]

Education of your neighbors about the truth of what our nation should be.
The Republic that our founders gave us has been destroyed by uneducated short sighted democracy. Democracy is mob rule at its best.
Only by education will any civil change be made of the current situation.


"Mob rule"....well said:Fire:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Well fellers, I recon we best have what we may need, as stated over and over. We may not need it but if we do we will have the powder,primers,boolits,brass to keep going for a while.

The seeds needed for a garden, food staples, salt, flour ,beans, rice we should have these things also.

I have also been converting this funny money they are printing now to gold and silver coin.

Call me anything you like as long as it isn't unprepared.

My Gov't doesn't trust me with my guns, I don't trust my govt.......

[armyrat1970]

AR, that's all well and good. The problem is if TSHTF you aren't going to be able to get close enough to let me know all that stuff. The shooting commences at 500 yards.......

Understood. If TSHTF I wouldn't be able to get close enough to you anyway Bret. You being in NY and me in Louisiana. A lot of miles between us. It would have to be much more local. But as I said. I like your attitude and hope I can group with someone like you when/if it all comes apart.

[oldtoolsniper]

Just a thought on the brass situation. DRMO sales are open to everyone.

http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=2263402&convertTo=USD

[rhead]

Understood. If TSHTF I wouldn't be able to get close enough to you anyway Bret. You being in NY and me in Louisiana. A lot of miles between us. It would have to be much more local. But as I said. I like your attitude and hope I can group with someone like you when/if it all comes apart.

I think the point he is trying to get across is you need to group with them while the fan is still clean. There may be a probationary period of several years. (I will not be entrusting my family and friends to someone I met a few months ago.)

[Bret4207]

I think the point he is trying to get across is you need to group with them while the fan is still clean. There may be a probationary period of several years. (I will not be entrusting my family and friends to someone I met a few months ago.)

Exactly- if you want to "group" then it'd be a good idea to get going NOW. My "group" will be my family and neighbors and maybe 1 or 2 other Troopers I know. The rest can go find their own hidey hole.

[PatMarlin]

I got into the our current community group 10 years ago. You really need to know who you're dealing with.

Funny thing about small remote communities... some folks are just plain nuts. I lived in my large home city down south for 40 years with nearly a cross word or problem with all the folks I new there my whole life. I move up here, and I've had to get into it with 3 folks over these past years. Maybe 4 ...:mrgreen: Had to black whole one nut off of my property that claimed it was his.

Another thing you really need is secure plastic or other type food containers. The critters will eat your stock in no time. Don't forget peanut butter and mouse traps.

[blysmelter]

Operation Gladio (or "Stay behind" as it is called in Norway) is there for a reason..

[PatMarlin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

[Recluse]

Exactly- if you want to "group" then it'd be a good idea to get going NOW. My "group" will be my family and neighbors and maybe 1 or 2 other Troopers I know. The rest can go find their own hidey hole.

Groups also have a way of finding each other. We learned that in survival school back in the service days. In unity, there is strength and in strength there is safety.

Me personally, I'm a fan of the militias. Not the racist, religious, "Hitler was a great man" wacko types. I like the well-run, organized militias that know what they are doing, stay quietly prepared, and quietly go on about their daily lives. They're patriots, firm believers in the Constitution and ardent defenders of Freedom.

These are the groups, I believe, that if the stink hits the cooling appliance, that will restore and keep order in their respective segments of society.

:coffee:

[armyrat1970]

I have a hide in Florida. My wifes aunts place. In the country out in the sticks. Her cousin around that's a good man with family. No military experience but a hard worker and loving family man. He and his two sons are avid hunters, fishermen and they farm. Haven't discussed this subject with him but I know he can live off the land. And he knows those woods like the back of his hand. Problem is if I wait to long to go there I may have to hold up close where I am. Alot of waterways and woods to get lost in around Southeast Louisiana. Others in Mississippi. One brother-in-law I don't care for and don't trust. He would be a last resort. Another very good friend I have known for over 25yrs. has a small 'stead out in Wyoming but again, far away. Problem is I can't leave now as I wouldn't have an income. The way everything is going now you better hold on to the job you have and prepare for when the time comes. Hope I can read the signs right and allow myself enough time to take my family and evade the onslaught. The other problem is, all of my family think I'm a nut and think Nam screwed me up and that's why I feel the way I do. I watch the news more than I watch anything else on TV. My wife and kids watch crap (MTV, HSN, etc.) and have no clue as to what is actually happening in our world, government and society. They are just caught up in living the life with their little petty problems from day to day. Most times I feel at a loss. Discouraged and helpless. I can't leave them and they feel no sense of need to act. I will fight and die for my survival but I have to fight or die for theirs first.

[walnutred]

I'm probably contributing to the problem in my own small way. For the first 30 years of my reloading I bought primers 100 at a time. I only loaded 100 at a time and them had a built in excuse to swing by the gunshop on my way home from work to buy more.

About four or five years ago I started noticing price creep in primers and powder. So instead of buying primers by the 100 I started buying by the 1000. I was shooting a little more true, but mainly it was hedging against price increases.

Last year I started noticing real shortages on the shelves so I went mail order. To even out the haxmat fees rather than order 1000 primers and 1 or 2 pounds of powder, I started ordering 8lb kegs of my favorite powder and sleeves of 5000 primers.

Now my shooting has not increased all that much and I doubt I'll need to purchase primers this year. I also probably have enough basic pistol powders to last the rest of my life. 8lbs goes a LOOOONG way with 3.5 gn powder charges and I bought an 8lber of each of my favorite pistol powders.

So you multiply that times a few thousand of me. Reloaders who just got tired of empty shelves and stocked up a little. Add in all the new reloaders, a few speculators and panic buyers, and it's easy to understand shortages.

[BPCR Bill]

All of this talk about primer hoarding has started me wondering: .......Just what is a reasonable "shelf life" for modern, commercial primers that are still in their original boxes???

In getting set up to reload again, I came across a couple of thousand CCI primers that have been sitting in an ammo can for twenty years. I was going to throw them out, .....but now I'm having second thoughts!

Kent
Kent, you have found a treasure. Those primers are in all likelihood still good. I found a few hundred primers that were from my high school days last year (49 cents a hundred) and they shot very well. They were not stored in an ammo can either.

Folks keep getting knee jerked about all this stuff and we are our own worst enemy in this supply and demand cycle. Spend a little less time looking for primers and more time paying attention to what the politicians are up to.

Regards,
Bill

[felix]

Who makes the best springs and where to buy? 1911 mainspring, mostly. ... felix

[midnight]

I use Wolf. I also have a guy who will make any spring you want as long as you order 10. He made 10 mainsprings for a 577-450 Martini-Henry for $50. I just had to supply him with one good one.

Bob

[felix]

Thanks, Bob, that is what I was looking for: Wolf. I remember that now. ... felix

[white eagle]

I wonder what they are using those satellites for ....really,
get pretty detailed info from weather satellites but they only let you go so far
they could be watching now !!!

[GRUMPA]

Thats been going on for decades, it's nothing new at all. Back in the 70's I saw a photo taken from space of a guy reading a paper. And you could read the headlines too.

[Ervin]

I have a few primers and powder that are over 30 years old and still good. Stored properly they will last a long time. I may get some negative comments but if you really want to know what is going with this administration read the writings of Cloward & Piven (obama mentors) and Sol Alinsky's RULES FOR RADICALS. Obama taught from this book in his college class. If you do this, everything that is going on makes sense. It's not just the 2nd ammendent, it's everything this country stands for.

[soldierbilly1]

Folks are fearing the re-election of Obama.

the everlovin' press is on his side and we will have to climb a mountain to defeat his minions. It's an uphill battle, truth be told
billy boy

[PatMarlin]

I think he is dead meat. Ticked off even most of his own whacked base. Not to let up on the battle, but his days are numbered for sure.

[PatMarlin]

This morning's headline-

New polls confirm Obama's Democratic base crumbles

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/07/obama-poll-jobs-democratic-base-crumbling.html

He'll be toast with another November like landslide. America is ticked off. Enough.

[soldierbilly1]

This morning's headline-

New polls confirm Obama's Democratic base crumbles

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/07/obama-poll-jobs-democratic-base-crumbling.html

He'll be toast with another November like landslide. America is ticked off. Enough.

I hope you are correct. His fundraising is unfortunately for us, doing very well. None of the GOP are even close. It's early yet.
I am praying he is one term.
The media is doing everything they can to carry him over the goal line.
billy boy

[white eagle]

These are some of the same conversations I heard when the last election was looming...
what became of the gun seizures ?
and the run on reloading supplies and shortages were very real
but the hype and hysteria about what someone might do is well.... being played...
all this dooms day scuttle but does no one any good

[Harter66]

I'll tell ya my fear is that in the rush to get rid of the of the 1st zebra the majority will do something stupid like electing Ms Wild Willie.

I've begun to hoard a little myself $100 cash outta pocket change,street pennies,and laundry dollars.kinda laundering the money before I swap it for the good stuff. Maybe I ought to get some reversible jackets and dark glasses too.

Its time to get constitutional again here and now. A Canuk once said to me "We oughtta strike a line due north form the Mississippi and call it East America and West America cause' the nuts I Quebec act just ya most of new England acting. All that's left then is to get Cali-gon's western non-conformants shipped to East America." I agreed30 yr ago still do although it'd be a damned shame to waste the hardwoods and millions of deer. All them good folks like most of you here would of course have to move. In 20 years We call in the loans and buy it all for about what we paid for Alaska. Better yet we give them a little longer and they'll turn on themselves and there wont be anyone left to say we can't have it back..........................

I don't want to take up arms anymore than I want to head for that mine/cave but as a" little Patriot" 1 must do what 1 must. Ben Franklin was just as right then as he is today for all the same reasons and in the same context.

[Catshooter]

He'll be toast with another November like landslide. America is ticked off. Enough.

I would love to agree with you Pat. But it all depends on who runs against him now doesn't it.


Cat

[exile]

I love America and it's people, but I must say, most people are driven by what they see in the media, and for that reason I fear Obama's re-election. I pray that it will be otherwise.

exile

[Ole]

I just used my Cabelas Visa bucks to buy some .450 Marlin brass yesterday.

Mainly because that stuff can't be made from anything else and .450 Marlin has an iffy future.

[uscra112]

My .02 worth - the Wall Street money men that helped buy O the office are already lining up behind Romney, who is the biggest fundraiser on the R side. Just sayin'.

[MT Gianni]

This morning's headline-

New polls confirm Obama's Democratic base crumbles

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/07/obama-poll-jobs-democratic-base-crumbling.html

He'll be toast with another November like landslide. America is ticked off. Enough.

Sometimes you need to let things stink it up before it is agreed to flush.

[Blammer]

if it's yellow, let it mellow

if it's brown, flush it down.

:D

[happy7]

I would think now is a good time to stock up on primers and powder just in case. I expect another shortage around the election even if Obama doesn't get elected, but if Obama does get reelected it should last a lot longer. Some Wolf primers are only 15.50 at Powder Valley right now, and almost everything is in stock. With the election only a little over a year a way, a bit of stockpiling now is not going to cause a shortage, but if we wait till a few months before the election we will only contribute to the panic buying we had last time.

Romney isn't exactly progun, although he should be less of a problem on the second amendment than Obama. Hopefully if he gets elected he will behave himself on gun issues. However, if Obama gets elected, I expect him to have a whole different agenda on guns in his second term. Whether he could get anything through the house though is another issue, but he can certainly cause us grief with BATFE and excutive orders and other mischief that he can cause without congressional approval.

[lbaize3]

I had a buddy in high school, long, long ago, that helped me learn more about reloading than I learned from my dad. Hal saved all of his spent primers in old coffee cans. I asked him why and he told me that shooters in WWII could not get primers for reloading and they saved the spent primers to make new ones. I do not remember how it was done, but the idea does have value....

It will be a while before I run out of the new stuff, as I tend to load in volume to feed my addiction. How many people do you know that have over 1800 loaded 45-70 rounds?

[fliintlock555]

Spend a little less time looking for primers and more time paying attention to what the politicians are up to.


I have: That's why I'm buying all the Lead, Primers, Case's, and Powder I can afford!

[Catshooter]

Happy7,

Right after Bush got re-elected I said the same things you just did. I knew the next President would be a democrat.

I stocked as hard as I could. Up until about a year from when they started their campaigns and the prices started jumping. I was done.

I still haven't needed to buy any components and have actually sold quite a bit.

Plan ahead. People change slowly, times change quickly.


Cat

[geraldsd]

Blammer that sounds like toilet conservatism!

[MikeS]

If anyone wants to get rid of Obama, then the Republican party had better get behind whoever is their candidate 110%, regardless of who that is, or if they like them or not. If the party had gotten behind McCain fully, he would have had a better chance of winning, but because he wasn't liked by many of the more conservative members of the Republican party, a lot of support was witheld. Whoever the candidate is, they're going to be better than Obama, if he gets reelected he will put his ultraliberal agenda into full swing, since he doesn't have to worry about getting reelected he won't care who he pisses off!

I would love to see ALL primaries held on the same day. I think if we did it this way then there might have been a different candidate, as some of the candidates drop out if they don't win some of the early primaries, then folks in states with later primaries can't vote for them! The reason the primaries are held on different dates is because in the past it let the candidates go to each state and try and get the vote, but with today's instant media I don't see where that's needed anymore, and if anything I think it hurts not having them all on the same day, so all the states can vote on all the candidates, not only the ones that made it past some early states elections.