Any archaic load data?

[docone31]

Campfellows,
I have this propondernment. I want to load my .303 British with black powder. It originally was a black powder load, the case is designed for it.
Anyone able to sweep the cobwebs off any old load data?
Now, that will be someting to see, paper patched black powder .303 Brit!
Not something you see every day.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
A 30-40 Krag is about the size as .303 ... I fill the case full of 2F and add the bullet. I have not tried PP ... should be interesting. Lube is going to be important to keed the fouling moving out the barrel with each shot.
God Bless you

[fishhawk]

info i have is it was a 215 gr bullet with a compressed charge of BP smokeless loads began in 1892. steve k

[JeffinNZ]

70gr of compressed powder was the original load. You will be hard pressed to get that much powder in the case however as the old process was to charge the case THEN form the shoulder. They did the cordite this way too.

Can I suggest you consider Pryodex instead?

[docone31]

I had Pyrodex in mind.
I figuired to find a BP load first, then try to convert.
Fascinating history of my rifle.
Thanks Jeff.

[BerdanIII]

I did a short test a few years ago with Pyrodex CTG, P and Clear Shot and the Lyman 200-gr LGC (311299?). I even tried a duplex load with a kicker of Pyrodex P and a main charge of CTG (NOT recommended; it was the only load that showed signs of excessive pressure). Fouling in the cases (some Rem-Peters, some primed POF) was impressive, but the bore wasn't too bad and cleaned up easily. I used a CF Ventures wax wad under the bullet in an attempt to keep fouling down to a minimum, but a much softer lube would have been better. The powder charge was the amount that filled the case halfway up the neck to allow some compression when seating the bullet and wad. Not the best way to do it, but cheaper than a compression die. There's no way you will get 70 grains (measured by mass or volume) in the case. Accuracy was nothing to write home about but this was probably due to the 0.312" bullet diameter. The best results were with Pyrodex CTG. Recoil was light. I'll dig out the particulars if you are interested.

[docone31]

I am interested in this rifle. I am glad you did it.
I wonder if lithium grease heated into felt would make a good wad.
I size my paper patches to .314. Amazing accuracy from an old war vet.

[BerdanIII]

I managed to get a few of the details from memory wrong, but that's why I write stuff down. The bullets were hard, commercially cast with the standard smokeless lube and I tumble-lubed them with LLA before loading. I think a Loverin design with lots of lube grroves filled with the correct soft lube would work much better. A grease cookie would probably help, too. I might have applied too much compression for these loads; I believe that Sharps' target loads called for the bullet to just touch the powder column, not compress it. Compression was for hunting loads. As long as your paper-patched bullets fit the bore, you should have better luck than I did. The original jacketed 215-gr. bullet would obviously have made short work of any powder fouling.

Lyman 311299 - 0.313" dia

Pyrodex P - 1967 P.O.F. cases, neck expanded / flared with RCBS 0.311" tapered expander. Powder compressed by bullet seating. All loads have one over-powder CF Ventures wax wad.

50 grs. volume - 35.8 grs. mass - COL 2.985", compression approx. 0.410" - group 3.25" (4 in 2.5") at 50 yds. 250 yds on rear sight = poa at 50 yds.

37.0 grs. mass - COL 2.985" - compression approx. 0.410" - group 4.25" (3 in 1.75") at 50 yds.

Full case by volume - 38.6 grs. mass - COL 3.175" - compression approx. 0.234" - group 4.25'" at 50 yds.

Remington cases, CCI 200 primer, neck expanded / flared with 0.311 RCBS tapered expander. Powder compressed by bullet seating. All loads have one over-powder CF Ventures wax wad.

38.6 grs. Pyrodex P - COL 2.985" - group 2.5" (4 in 1.25") at 50 yds. 300 yds on rear sight = center 6" bull at 50 yds.

Full case by volume - 39.7 grs. mass Pyrodex P - COL 2.985" - group 3.75" at 50 yds

Full case by volume - 40.0 grs. mass Pyrodex CTG - COL 2.985" - group 4" (3 in 0.75") at 50 yds.

Duplex 0.3cc Pyrodex P - 3.7cc Pyrodex CTG (Lee dippers) - COL 2.985" - Keyholing at 50 yds. Cases (new) showed expansion ring after firing, but primers were not flattened.

55.0 grs. volume - Goex Clear Shot FFFg - COL 2.985" - Keyholing at 50 yds. Heavy powder fouling in throat.

[KCSO]

The original load was for metford rifling and the case was filled with powder, comppressed and THEN the case was necked down to 303. This is a WHOLE lot different than the current (modern??) SMLE with a case full of FFG. I have tried black in a 303 a few times and have never been impressed with the accuracy and the gun tends to foul out in just a couple of shots. I can only imagine that a pp bullet would make the problems worse. About the only moodern small bore rifle I have had any sucess with in BP was a M94 in 32 special. In that one I used a bullet with large grease grooves and lubed with bear oil and bees wax,

I wish you luck.

[docone31]

I think you guys have saved me some concerned looks at the range, where folks have begun to trust my paper patching finally.
So, the .303 can be loaded with BP, but, it does need some load development.
I have been successfully been paper patching with excellent results. Fly in the ointment though, it has been with smokeless, and not BP. Over in the patching section, I am definately at some odds with the BPCR folks.
From what I see, it is a question of the properties of the two powder types.
With my patched loads, I alloy real hard. I cannot scratch the casting with my fingernail. It produces my best patterns. I would need to go real soft so the powder would obturate the casting.
However, it is definately food for thought for some day when I am bored. Real bored.
Thanks for all the comebacks on this. I am digesting them as we speak.

[BerdanIII]

The black powder .303 used a compressed pellet of powder that had a central, conical hollow that extended through the middle of the charge and was centered over the primer. I would not have wanted to be the one operating the machine that made these pellets, wet or dry.

[TAWILDCATT]

any one know when cordite was first used in 303.I suspect the cartridge was designed in anticipation of using smokeless.the germans had their 88 mauser.and the french had their 8 mm smokeless first.the small bore was developed because of smokeless.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[fishhawk]

if you look above you see that smokeless loads began in 1892