M dies

[acemedic13]

xxxxxxx

[zxcvbob]

Get a Lee universal case expanding die. It'll be the best $10 you ever spend.

[Leadforbrains]

I bought a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies for my Model 94 in .32 winchester special which is basically a 30/30 necked out to .32 cal. It is a 3 die set and the extra die is the neck expander. I size and decap my brass, run it through the neck expander and load powder,seat boollit, crimp and shoot. You can buy the RCBS cowboy expander die by it self and that should work. Lyman is the manufacturer for the M die.


The RCBS cowboy expander die Midsouth link: ( Midsouth shows on order)
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004414657

Midway link: (shows available)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=183947


The Lyman M die that you seek. It shows as available stock at midway :
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=409943

I looked for the lee universal expander,but did not see it on either Midway or Midsouth.

[zxcvbob]

I looked for the lee universal expander,but did not see it on either Midway or Midsouth.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690798

It was kind of hard to find.

[Ben]

Remember when using the Lee Universal Expander Die, it only puts a small flare on the mouth of the case, it does not expand the case neck in any way.

The Lyman M die DOES flare and expand the case neck.

I first though that the Lee Universal Expander Die would be the ultimate answer to my case expanding needs for shooting cast bullets in all calibers, I no longer believe that.

Ben

[zxcvbob]

I use one (Lee universal expander) for almost all my reloading -- but that's using really hard bullets most of the time. If I start casting soft lead bullets I might have to go back to the regular "powder thru" expander. But so far, using the bullet to expand the case neck past the flare hasn't been a problem.

[Jon K]

I expand the case to fit the boolit, if Lyman M die, RCBS Cowboy, or Lee/Redding expander don't give me the expansion I want I get a custom expander fom BACO. We spend all that time and energy making the boolit sized to fit the barrel, making the case fit the boolit should be a MUST.

Jon

[jtaylor1960]

I also use the Lee universal tool.It works for any caliber and is cheap.

[felix]

...........and then the case to fit the gun as well. All becomes a mute point in practice using store bought guns/equipment with no modifications. ... felix

[6pt-sika]

I like the expander die in the RCBS Cowboy sets and I like the Lyman "M" dies !

I am however not a big advocate of the Lee system . I am sure however if a person "likes" the Lee die then it will work for them .

Even though I have an expander die for both the 218 Bee and 25-20 they didn't actually do what I wanted . So I had a friend in a machine shop make me a small handtool with a 22 caliber expander on one end and a 25 caliber expander on the other . I can tap this thing with a small plastic mallet and it does an excellent job on the two small cases and I'm able to load my tiny cast bullets to suit myself !

[Firebricker]

I'm another fan of lyman m dies especially for my 30-30 loads because of the long neck

[skeet1]

I use the Lee expander die and I find it hard to understand what anyone would have against it. The only thng I can figure is that there maybe a prejudice toward anythng with the name Lee on it. The expander die does just what it is designed to do expand cases. This is what I bought it for and it works for me without spending more than necessary. Some say that a tight case neck will size down your bullet when you seat it. Well, in my .303 I size my bullets to .314 which is quite a bit larger than what is thought of as standard. I have seated bullets and then pulled them and measured them: they are still .314. It does not appear to me that a tight neck does anything.

Skeet1

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Er, ah, the Lee die is not an expander die. It is a flaring tool to allow the starting of the bullet into the case. The "M" die is an expander die, and can be adjusted to flare a bit. BvT

[C A Plater]

I use the Lee expander die and I find it hard to understand what anyone would have against it. The only thng I can figure is that there maybe a prejudice toward anythng with the name Lee on it. The expander die does just what it is designed to do expand cases. This is what I bought it for and it works for me without spending more than necessary. Some say that a tight case neck will size down your bullet when you seat it. Well, in my .303 I size my bullets to .314 which is quite a bit larger than what is thought of as standard. I have seated bullets and then pulled them and measured them: they are still .314. It does not appear to me that a tight neck does anything.

Skeet1

Just because someone prefers another tool does not mean they are prejudiced against Lee products. The "M" die and Lee expander do their respective jobs differently. The Lee simply bells the case mouth the Lyman expands the neck and flares the case mouth. Some of us have use for that extra feature and appreciate it being there.

[Throwback]

I have used both and will continue to do so. The Lee is adaptable to multiple cases and calibers, a decided plus. The M dies are caliber specific but are less fussy in terms of case trim length (an admittedly minor point). Given the choice I prefer the M dies. I have one for the .30's and one for the .35's.

[Ben]

I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. The Lee and the Lyman M die are two different designs and accomplish different task when used in preparing cases for cast bullets.

[Leadforbrains]

From what I have read Ace is looking for a case neck expanding tool. I have nothing against against Lee, but if all it does is flare the case mouth and not the neck itself it might not be what he needs. I have the RCBS cowboy die set with the neck expander for my .32 win spcl as stated before, and it works great for me. If the Lyman M die does both then I would get it if I had to do it all over again. Just my two cents worth.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive used m dies for years. never tried the lee. Cant imagine why anyone would actually want to expand the entire neck of a case. When i use them i use just enough to get bullets to start without shaving. A guy doesnt want to loose his neck tension.

[Boomer Mikey]

No one is bashing Lee products, just giving the best advise. The Lyman "M" die has a long record of providing a way to load cast bullets without causing damage to them resulting in consistency and improved accuracy with different ranges of bullet hardness.

Boomer :Fire:

[Don McDowell]

Are the M- dies the RCBS Cowboy dies? I cant find M-dies on midway or anywhere else. I have been reading the info on the cowboy dies, they are specific to opening up the case for lead boolits. Just want to look before I leap. I am trying to get one for loading my 30-30, as I stated in my other post "bulged necks". Thanks.

The "M" die is part of the LYMAN 3die sets. They can also be purchased seperately. Grafs lists them for 16.99.
Buffalo Arms Co sells semi custom diameters for the M die.
M dies are definetly a good thing to have if you're going to get the most out of your cast bullets.

[LeadThrower]

This sounds like a great time for an experiment (but not mine [smilie=1:). Since I don't have both the M and the Lee universal, can anyone else who uses both to cast up a few boolits, mic them, and seat them -- minimum 10 boolits, 5 in brass treated with the M, 5 in brass opened with the Lee. Let them sit a spell in the brass and then pull them with the least destructive means available and mic them again. I'd love to see the results.

It would be fantastic to know the ID of each case neck in the area which will hug the slug (below any bell), if the tester has the means to.

[ktw]

I have both and have done some experimenting along these lines.

The answer to your question is dependent on cartridge and sizing dies used. Some dies create a much smaller sized neck diameter than others. Some cartridges have thicker brass in the neck (typically bottleneck rifle cartridges) and will size your boolit down when seating if the neck is too tight. Some cartridges have thinner brass in the neck (i.e. 38-55, 30-30, 22 hornet, etc) and are less prone to this. Soft alloy, plain based bullets are more prone to get sized down than harder alloys and gas checked bullets.

I use M dies in most of my cast boolit loading. The Lyman M die plug varies from the RCBS expansion plug in that the Lyman version is two diameter, or stepped. The first portion of the plug is intended to open up the case neck to slightly under boolit size. The second part is used to open up the mouth if the case to slightly over boolit size (a short straight section of the case, not just a belled mouth). The over sized portion at the top is optional and aids in getting the boolit started straight in the case. The RCBS plug is single diameter and adds an optional flare to the case mouth.

My Lee collet neck sizers leave a sized neck diameter that is appropriate without expanding in some of my cartridges. In that case I will simply bell them with the Lee Universal "expander" rather than use the M die.

-ktw

[Don McDowell]

Maybe this will clear some of the confusion.
The Lyman M die is on the left, the Lee universal expander on the right. The only thing they have in common is they will both flare the case mouth. The M die expands the entire neck before it flares the case mouth.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/expanders.jpg