.45 ACP accuracy

[Duckiller]

I am a new member with a problem. Son's 1911 Springfield has an 18 " pattern with cast boolits at 7 yds. Gun does fine with 230 gr FMJ. Cast are 200gr SWC from wheelweights sized to .451 , with5.0 gr of HP-38 . Cast two months ago and shot Friday. Both my son and I shot up target frames. Obviously this is not a good load, but where do I start /go to get a load with reasonable accuracy?

[Murphy]

Duckiller,

If I were going to begin looking for the source of my problems given the problem you have stated.

1st: I would mic the boolits and make double sure they are coming out at .451 dia.

2nd: I would slug the barrel of the Springfield to get a better handle on the true bore dia.

3rd: I've shot untold 1,000's of .45 ACP's. Conventional wisdom says to size a cast boolit for a handgun at 1000th over bore dia. This being the case, try a sizer die in .452

By the way, did any of the holes in the targets look out of round? Like they hit it at an angle? Sort'a like 2 boolits went in the same hole almost? If so, then the boolits are tumbling in flight. Which indicates that indeed your bullet is undersized.

Just my 2 cent's worth.

Respectfully,

Murphy

[Pawpaw]

How old is the pistol? Is it "shot-in" yet. I generally don't worry about accuracy with a pistol till it has 1000 rounds through it. Maybe that pistol just likes 230 grain ball? Lots of guys have molds for that bullet. Every mold maker has them in stock.

Sometimes the reason why a pistol likes one bullet design over another is hard to fathom. Some just do.

[StarMetal]

My God! You sure the 1911 isn't some kind of special converted 410 shotgun model? Just teasing here. Wow! I've never seen a 1911 shoot that bad, honestly. Unless something is seriously wrong, and how could it be if it shoots FMJ fine, it should shoot those cast bullets.
One of the traditional target loads for the 45 acp is a 200 gr SWC over 4.0 grs of Bullseye. I've used it alot. Another good powder for cast is 231 Winchester. I use alot of Unique too. The powders I mentioned are in most all reloading manuals. I gave you the Bullseye load, you can look the rest up if you go with those powders.

I like sizing my 45 acp slugs to .452. You want to leave about 1/32 inch of the SWC's shoulder sticking out of the case mouth. It's a good idea to strip your gun down and use the barrel for a loaded cartridge gauge. The loaded round should drop into the chamber and the head of the case should be about even with the barrel tang that protrudes there on the top. By no means should the round be sticking out past that tang. The gun will still work if the round is a hair past the tang.

I'm wondering if you loaded those cast bullet and used a taper crimp die and had the dies sized way down too far and it not only crimped but sized the bullet down too.

Check this stuff out and also what Murphy said and I'm sure others will chime in.

Joe

[Duckiller]

Rechecked sizing die 0.452 lubed/sized boolit dia =0.452 slugged barrel =0.451 Gun is NEW. No. 2 son buys new gun every year. This is 2005 purchase. Because of school only 2 shooting sessions. We estimate 500 rds to date mostly ball. Shoulder was seated flush with case mouth. cast and ball are both flush with tang on barrel. Ball cases are 0.001" smaller than cast cases. No sign of boolits yawing, very round holes in target frames. Perhaps I should pull and reseat cast loads out of case a little bit along with trying different powders. Will not load up 150 rounds without being sure it is a reasonably accurate load. Thank everyon for the suggestions

[waksupi]

What kind of fouling did you end up with, in the barrel? Just curious.
The barrel may just not like cast yet, as at 500 rounds, it may not be broken in enough. If you know someone else with another .45 to borrow, switch out the barrel, and make sure the platform isn't somehow the culprit. I'm betting a bullet sizing problem, and maybe too hard of a bullet. At seven yards, 18 inches is way out of whack. Heck, a shotgun pattern at 7 yards probably isn't 18 inches!
Keep us up to date, and good luck.

[StarMetal]

Yeah, just load up like 10 or so for a test. If you seat the slugs out of the case a wee bit please do the drop in barrel/tang test again to make certain the case head is still flush with the tang.

Joe

[boogerred]

i shoot a bunch o 200 SWCs cast from straight WWs from lyman and lee moulds.i size to .452 and use a NRA 50/50 lube. my favorite powder is bullseye but i have used unique and universal. i havent found a powder/mould combo that is noticeably better than any other so i usually load/shoot whatever i have most of.i usually get 4-5" groups at 20 yds but im pretty shaky. after 500rds of copper it may be time for a cleaning,the cleaner mine is the better it shoots.

[redneckdan]

my 1911 actually likes SWC seated flush with the top of the shoulder. I found that I had wild accuracy until I started sizing to .453, then the groups tightened right up.

[StarMetal]

redneckdan

I would imagine that you would have to seat flush with the case mouth if you're shooting bullets as fat as .453

Joe

[fourarmed]

It's hard to imagine a normal 1911 shooting groups that big. How big are the groups with ball? One thing that occurs to me is really bad leading. The ball ammo might be cleaning it out enough to shoot, then you get it back when you shoot cast.

[Boondocker]

I shoot ww water dropped out of lee tl 200swc that measure at .452 with my 1991 Colt into 1 ragged hole at 15 yards if I do my part. I suspect you are undersized also and leading up. I am just a simple novice here and can stand to be corrected. Just my 2 cent and we know what 2 cents gets you these days. Boon :castmine:

[Char-Gar]

Duckkiller...You are going to have to trust me on this one...

Clean the barrel and I mean clean it..Use Sweets 7.62 until no blue or green color comes out. I am talking about cleaning it here..really clean.

Load the same 200 grains SWC with either Bullseye, 231, Unique or AA5 to give a velocity of 850 fps.

Remove the barrel and use it as a bullet depth seating guage. Seat the bullets deep enough so that the head of the case is flush with the end of t he barrel hood and no farther.

Use a taper crimp die and set the die with a loaded factory rounds. Here is how..

1. Place the factory round in the press and run the ram up to max height.
2. Screw the taper crimp die down onto the factory round. Get it as tight as you can with just hand pressure, no tools.
3. Set the lock ring on the die
4. You will how have the correct taper crimp

Go to the range and shoot....You will find the accuracy as least as good as the ball. Trust me..do the above and don't skip a step and you will be pleased.

[BD]

I've never seen or heard of accuracy that bad at 7 yards. The old man's .45, (in the family since 1918 ), shot Lead into five inches at 10 yards with no visible rifling before we replaced the barrel. Actually, the big cleanup as a result of rebarreling showed up how loose the old gal was and that pistol didn't do much better with the new barrel).
I think I can probably throw 230 grainers into a tighter group than 18" at 7 yards :). I'd take a close look at those bullet bases in addition to following Charger's advice.
BD

[Duckiller]

I may have figured out why my son's gun is shooting so poorly. Tried to take some rounds apart using a kenitic bullet puller(hollow hammer). Boolits wouldn't move ,no matter hard I hit the hammer. Seated boolits slightly deeper, then I could take the bullets out. Still took significant pounding. Don't think it was the lube sticking, used Javilina. May have crimped cases way too much and getting funny results. May just have ti fire at hillside to empty cases and follow the above suggestion s. I would like to thank everyone for your suggestions.

[StarMetal]

Well if you read my post I mentioned I thought you sized them too much with those wonderful taper crimp dies that size the bullet down smaller then the bore.

Joe

[redneckdan]

redneckdan

I would imagine that you would have to seat flush with the case mouth if you're shooting bullets as fat as .453

Joe


my dads .45 likes LSWCs at .451 I loaded come of his bullets an they wouldn't shoot accurately from mine, however, they were slightly more accurate when seated flush than out 1/32" inch.