Velocity and lead

[Crowkiller]

I'm sure this has been covered many times here, but I'm going to ask again.

What are the velocity sweet spots for the different alloys? How fast can I drive pure lead, what velocities does straight wheelweight like vs. water dropped wheelweights, and when is linotype needed?

Also, how much do gas checks help (or hurt?)in the equation? I know lubes are very important, so I could use some suggestions there as well.

I have cast and shot a fair amount of straight wheelweight handgun bullets lubed with 50/50 alox or RCBS green lube with no problems, but I am moving into new territory for me with a Marlin 45/70. Also, at the low end velocities I am shooting my .44 magnum with gaschecked designs, I thought pure lead might be an option.

Thanks!

[HeavyMetal]

If you have a large supply of lead fitting the boolit to the bore is as important as alloy content. If you were planning on buying pure lead, just stick with WW metal.

I have used WW alloy for both my 45/70 Marlin and 44 mag shooting for years and it has performed flawlessly.

Yes I do, and have, played with "custom" alloys and have had a lot of fun doing it but if all I could ever lay my hands on was WW metal I would shoot it with no problem!

You had asked about gas checks, these were originally brought out, in my opinion, to act as scrapers to keep lead from building up when shooting soft lead a high veloicty ( faster than black powder) pure lead at 600 to 900 FPS won't lead if the boolit is correct for the bore of the gun your using!

Bump up the velocity and you can get leading from a number of reasons some not related to boolit "hardness" although most will jump to that conclusion quickly.

Each gun is a rule unto itself you'll have to experiment until you hit the sweet spot for each one!

[BABore]

As mentioned above, alot of the alloy/velocity problems are related to boolit fit. If it fits, you can do almost no wrong. For the Marlin 45/70 your likely to find that most commercial boolits don't fit. They are typically too small in diameter. I've slugged a bunch of Marlin 45-70's and best boolit size is 0.460 to 0.462 diameter. Groove diameter's typically run around 0.4580 to 0.485. Fired case neck ID will usually accept a 0.462 boolit and that's what I shoot to fill the throat and case to eliminate potential yaw of the boolit. You will also experience certain degrees of bore constriction at the thread, roll markings and dovetail cuts which Marlin sees fit to stamp or punch in. In some cases those have to be dealt with for good accuracy. You didn't specify your Marlin's vintage, but the MicroGroove barrels are fine shooters, but do like their boolits big.

With a properly fitted boolit, here's what I've found in my Marlin 45-70's and 450 Marlin. Plain base boolits run good at up to 1,400 fps or so. The Ballard rifled bbls will do this with 9-10 bhn boolits. MG rifled bbl need harder boolits or you can run them soft if slowed down. With GC boolits, you can run them at the full velocity and pressure the gun is usually rated at. Hardness will depend on rifling type and the boolit's band width. Again this is just what I've found with mine and a few others. Most of these guns will give honest 3-5 shot groups at 100 yards that run 1 1/2" down to cloverleafs. That's with top end loads too.

[Crowkiller]

Thanks! This is just what I was looking for. I'll try a few gas checked pure lead boolits in my .44. I have about an equal supply of pure and wheelweights right now.

I have the Lee 405 grain flat base boolit mould (not the hollow base), and it is casting to right at .457-.458, just like it states on the box. This is the first Lee I've had that cast to size, and unfortunately it is smaller than my bore.

I'm debating at this point between lapping it or beagling it to size. I'm leaning toward the Beagle route, as it is reversible if it doesn't work, and easier.

[badgeredd]

As mentioned above, alot of the alloy/velocity problems are related to boolit fit. If it fits, you can do almost no wrong. For the Marlin 45/70 your likely to find that most commercial boolits don't fit. They are typically too small in diameter. I've slugged a bunch of Marlin 45-70's and best boolit size is 0.460 to 0.462 diameter. Groove diameter's typically run around 0.4580 to 0.485. Fired case neck ID will usually accept a 0.462 boolit and that's what I shoot to fill the throat and case to eliminate potential yaw of the boolit. You will also experience certain degrees of bore constriction at the thread, roll markings and dovetail cuts which Marlin sees fit to stamp or punch in. In some cases those have to be dealt with for good accuracy. You didn't specify your Marlin's vintage, but the MicroGroove barrels are fine shooters, but do like their boolits big.

With a properly fitted boolit, here's what I've found in my Marlin 45-70's and 450 Marlin. Plain base boolits run good at up to 1,400 fps or so. The Ballard rifled bbls will do this with 9-10 bhn boolits. MG rifled bbl need harder boolits or you can run them soft if slowed down. With GC boolits, you can run them at the full velocity and pressure the gun is usually rated at. Hardness will depend on rifling type and the boolit's band width. Again this is just what I've found with mine and a few others. Most of these guns will give honest 3-5 shot groups at 100 yards that run 1 1/2" down to cloverleafs. That's with top end loads too.

NOW there is some good info for me. I am about to load up some for my 1895 with MG rifling. Thanks for the info.

Edd

[BABore]

Thanks! This is just what I was looking for. I'll try a few gas checked pure lead boolits in my .44. I have about an equal supply of pure and wheelweights right now.

I have the Lee 405 grain flat base boolit mould (not the hollow base), and it is casting to right at .457-.458, just like it states on the box. This is the first Lee I've had that cast to size, and unfortunately it is smaller than my bore.

I'm debating at this point between lapping it or beagling it to size. I'm leaning toward the Beagle route, as it is reversible if it doesn't work, and easier.

With those ingredients, your best bet is to mix the WW's and Pb 50/50. It'll come out around 8-10 bhn air cooled and 18-22 bhn heat treated. Expands nicely in either hardness. Mostly all I shoot.

[supv26]

I'm sure this has been covered many times here, but I'm going to ask again.

What are the velocity sweet spots for the different alloys? How fast can I drive pure lead, what velocities does straight wheelweight like vs. water dropped wheelweights, and when is linotype needed?

Also, how much do gas checks help (or hurt?)in the equation? I know lubes are very important, so I could use some suggestions there as well.

I have cast and shot a fair amount of straight wheelweight handgun bullets lubed with 50/50 alox or RCBS green lube with no problems, but I am moving into new territory for me with a Marlin 45/70. Also, at the low end velocities I am shooting my .44 magnum with gaschecked designs, I thought pure lead might be an option.

Thanks!

This may help explain a lot of things:
how hard should it be? (http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php)

[Boerrancher]

I agree with BABore on the half WW half pure. That is about all I shoot as well, and with proper fitting to the bore and a good lube, have pushed that alloy to 2500 fps out of my 30-06. Pure lead can be pushed to around 1200 fps, as that is about the velocity of a 22 Long rifle, which is made out of pure lead. Also, the larger boolit the faster you should be able to push it, because it has a greater bearing surface. As a final note if your boolit fits the bore properly it is pressure on ignition of the powder that causes leading not velocity. A slow burning powder will be less likly to cause the boolit to jump the rifling than a faster one, and once a boolit jumps the rifling that is all you have is a huge leading mess.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe