Best Cast boolit Cartridge in the world

[The Nyack Kid]

the Opinion Poll got me to thinking
what in your Opinion is the best cast bullet cartridge in the world ?
I believe it is the 45-70 for many reasons .
from round balls to NEIs # 351 train wrecker . there is a bewildering amount of differant boolit designs out there . from plain base to gas checks hollow points to hollow base from pure lead to the hardest HTWW .
It is about the perfect diameter for lead hunting projecttiles not too fat not too thin.
Other contenders would be the 30-30 ,3006 , 357 mag 44 mag and the 45 colt.

the 45-70 is a very easy cartridge to get to shoot lead and to work with . there is lots of data out there
Heck ,even i was able to do it. I
If it wasn't for the 45-70 ,i would not be casting.

[nighthunter]

From the cartridges you listed I'd rate the 45-70 in first place followed by the 30-06 and 44 Mag. The 357 Mag. is also a very good cartridge but doesn't have the versitility of the previous 3 mentioned. These are all cartridges that I have a fair amount of experience with and have shot a lot of lead out of. The 45-70 and the 30-06 will be with us forever.
Nighthunter

[9.3X62AL]

I agree with the assertion that the 45-70 is the best all-around cast boolit rifle cartridge. It has accuracy at all velocity levels, simple metallurgy needs, ease of loading, and sufficient powder for large game animals when properly loaded. This combines into a very useful caliber for the projectile-pouring hobbyist.

I think any of the "Big 4" revolver calibers--357/41/44 Magnums or 45 Colt--could qualify for best all-around handgun cast boolit caliber. The 357 Magnum has lost some shine in the game fields due to the ascendence of the 454/475/500 class calibers, but I still think the single best handgun platfrom available--assuming someone just wants to own one sidearm--is the double action 357 Magnum with 4" barrel.

Very few of us here choose to limit ourselves to one handgun, though--so I'll go out on a limb here and say this--in S&W platforms, the 357 Magnum (L-frame) and 41 Magnum (N-frame) are the best "marriages" of cartridge and platform I've used (OK, Colt Pythons are kinda nice, too). For the 44 Mag and 45 Colt, the Rugers--Blackhawk and Redhawk variants--rule the roost, once the owner finishes building them. Colt Anacondas weren't bad, but they didn't have the Python's action smoothness--they weren't V-springs, maybe that's not a fair comparison.

[waksupi]

I am prejudiced towards the .358 Winchester, through years of experience with many different chamberings. Lots of bullet selection for any purpose, the case is not overbore for a CB rifle, and it is a great killer. .45-70 is good, but not as versitile, in my opinion.

[9.3X62AL]

.45-70 is good, but not as versitile, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Interesting viewpoint, Ric. My work with the 9.3 x 62 and the MM 270 has shown it to be a pretty good cast boolit flinger, but I really haven't stepped on the gas with it--yet. To 1700 FPS it remains very accurate--if it did so to 2000 FPS or higher, I might change my vote. We'll see.

[Bass Ackward]

If the question is for strictly cast bullet use, I would vote for any cartridge in the 35 bore. Works for handguns on up. Provides for cartridge flexibility from plinking to hunting applications where you need bullet weight and enough bore diameter for strength of the bullet to hang together and penetrate. All while maintaining enough BC for a "hunting trajectory" for 200 yards use.

30 calibers for rifle mold options and accuracy.

[Pilgrim]

I'm with Rik on this one. The .358 is easy to get to shoot and will pretty much kill anything on this continent and can be used for everything from varmints to really big stuff without knocking the bejeebers out of you when you light it off with heavy loads. I would put the .35 Rem right behind the .358 (or .35 Whelen for that matter). The .45-70 is nice (in addition to the .358 and .35 Rem, there is one in my safe, an 1886 Extra Light), but I wouldn't give it the same status as the .35s as it doesn't have the versatility of the .35 Whelen/.358 Win. On the other hand, if you want to whack really big critters, potentially dangerous ones, then the .45-70 wins hands down. Any of the .35s are easy to get to shoot well, as is any good .45-70, so I guess you takes your pick! Pilgrim

[nighthunter]

Awwwwwwwww Geeeeeeeeeezzzz ....... Now MOM is really gonna be real mad when I tell her I need a 35 Cal. You guys get me in an awful lot of trouble.
Nighthunter

[The Nyack Kid]

Awwwwwwwww Geeeeeeeeeezzzz ....... Now MOM is really gonna be real mad when I tell her I need a 35 Cal. You guys get me in an awful lot of trouble.
Nighthunter

your not the only one in trouble . ever since i figgered out how to buy stuff online .......ive been up to my neck in it, and im a cheapskate too.

[JohnH]

More than a few work good, perhaps better than good, but I too lean toward Rik on this. The 357 Maximum, 38-55 (375 Winchester) are about as perfect as it gets. Good velocity with 200-270 grian bullets and not so much case capacity that accuracy falls at "plink" and "WHACK". I'm presently working with a 375 JDJ rifle. It will easily do more than I will, butthe two does I shot this year with my 38-55 are evidence enough for me that 358-379 is where cast boolit perfection happens.

[mike in co]

welllll it says best cast boolit cartidge in the world.......wide open no rifle/pistolfrt stuffer...........
the guys on the cast bullet br arena would have an opinion

shotgunners would pic a size of shot for clays......

ipsc and idpa would have a pistol round......

hunters.....well east coast or flat land hunters ?? squirrels or alaskan bear ??

i say it is any and everyones opinion........but thats it an opinion......

poor guys like me...a steel clanger/paper punching bench shooter would disagree with most answers.....


so put some qulifiers in the dream world.....


best pistol rifle combo........44win mag.........a revolver and a lever gun

with a 265 gc....lyman

[Frank46]

Kid, buying online has caused the ruination of many a man. I know only too well.
Al, was wondering when you would chime in with your 9.3x62mm.
I like the 45-70 just my two cents worth. Frank

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'd say its a bit of a toss up between the 45/70 and the 375Win. The 38/55 has always been the bees knees, but the 375 also allows you to crank it up as well and will duplicte any 38/55 loads.

The 38 special shoots just about anything I have ever stuffed into it well and I am starting to use 357 cases in my 92 and it rings the bell everytime.

[jballs918]

im leaning more towards the 30-30 everyday, nice all around caliber. great for hunting and great for plinking. brass is dirt cheap and it can use several different types of powder. as i read on the 45/70 also looks nice but the only thing is the heavy recoil is all. just my 2 cents

[felix]

If I had to pick only one for both rifle and pistol, it would be the 44 mag as per Mike in Colorado. If pistol only, it would be the 41 mag. If rifle only it would be the 32 winnie special. This is based upon shooting experiences at the junk yard, in terms of overall thrill across the board. ... felix

[pdgraham]

There are 11 different molds available from Lyman for 38 special.

Lee currently lists 13 molds for 38 special.

In 38 special you can cast boolits using WW or Linotype or pure lead if you want..

In 38 special you can cast as low as 92 grains.. that's a lot of boolits per pound of lead..

With a diameter of .358 you can get a lot of mileage out of a stick of lube compared to a bullet of .452 or more..

I'm voting for 38 special...

[Bman]

Dont know from in the world but the best cast boolit caliber in my neck of the woods is .38 for pistols and 30-30 in long guns. Cant wait for the 311041 GB moulds to get in!

[MTWeatherman]

Mike in Co pretty much nailed my feelings on the question. The best for what? Its pretty tough to have a best cast cartridge for everything.

The choice is based to a large extent on the rifles that chamber the cartridge. To be cast friendly, you need a cast friendly twist. In many rifles, the twist is too fast for full potential cast performance...so the cartridges for them don't make the "cast friendly" list.

The .45-70 was designed for cast and rifles chambering it are cast friendly in general. That makes it excellent...but the best...period? Trapdoor class pressure loads are about as flat shooting over 100 yds as a .22 long rifle. In a modern rifle you can improve things but the recoil will give you one hell of a beating if you try to approach .30-30 trajectory. IMO, the .45-70 is the best cast cartridge for large game at close range.

I've felt that the .375 Winchester represented the best compromise between trajectory, energy, recoil, and being cast friendly...I still do. However, it appears to be going the way of the old black powder loads...many of which were also excellent. I'd have a hard time chosing it if I would need custom brass in the future.

So, I'll add another vote for the .32 Win. Special. You can load it as long as 30-30 brass is available. The 1 in 16 inch twist allows the .32 to be loaded to the same performance level as jacketed...it is accurate, reasonably flat shooting, and packs enough energy for deer sized game. It is comfortable to shoot and is an efficient cartridge...3031 conveniently fills the case on a full house 170 or 180gr load. The bullet choices are indeed limited( they haven't always been)...but thats not the fault of the cartridge or the rifle.

In rifles, the .44 Mag suffers from a slow twist and microgroove in many of them. Its a short range performer. However, in handguns it's the hands down winner.

That said, my next rifle purchase will likely be a .45-70 (I've got the .32) ...but I wish someone would reintroduce the .375 Win to guarantee a future supply of brass. I would switch choices.

Unfortunately, some of the best cast bullet rifles are either obsolete or rapid becoming that way....45-70 being the notable exception.

[versifier]

.30-30 in rifles, .357mag in handguns

[MGySgt]

45/70 in rifle and 44mag in pistols, but I am a glutten for punishment.

No squak's about me using the 45/90 Sharps for Elk - it started as a 45/70, just the chamber was too danged long to stay a 45/70!

Just my humble opinion.

Drew

[drinks]

MT;
So long as .30-30 brass is available, .25-35, 32sp, .38-55 and .375 are easily made.
I am stuck, .32sp, .303 Savage, .35 Whelen, .44-40. .44 mag. and .45-70 are all too much fun!

[The Nyack Kid]

this was a rather bone-headed question on my part (it the kind that one would find in a gun-rag). there are so many differant cartridges out there, that have some many differant uses , that asking an absulote like this one is silly ...... or it could be a sneeky way of helping me make my next gun purchase. :razz:

rather i should have asked "what do you consider the optimum cast boolit cartridge ? and why?"

[waksupi]

this was a rather bone-headed question on my part (it the kind that one would find in a gun-rag). there are so many differant cartridges out there, that have some many differant uses , that asking an absulote like this one is silly ...... or it could be a sneeky way of helping me make my next gun purchase. :razz:

rather i should have asked "what do you consider the optimum cast boolit cartridge ? and why?"

See my first post on the subject!

[Bent Ramrod]

I don't hunt, so the .45-70 loses some advantages for me, good though it undoubtedly is. I would say the peak of the cusp for me is the .32-40 and .32 Special. These cartridges, with cast bullets, combine fine accuracy, economy and a sort of forgiveness. The .30 calibers are good, but for me always require gas checks for optimum accuracy at ranges beyond 100 yards. Smaller calibers than .30 seem to lose even more of their versatility, except in rare cases, unless gas checks are used. Gas checked bullets are still good in the .32's, but this is the smallest caliber in which I seem to be able to get plain base bullets to work just as well as checked ones. I would hazard a guess that the .35 calibers might continue this plain base trend to an even greater extent, with little more expense per bullet, and it seems .40 and .45 calibers can do without the gas checks altogether.

Just raising concern that the "O-Check" cartel might raise the price of the little discs to even more ridiculous levels than now. ;-)

[Blackwater]

I'm really new to shooting cast in rifles, but the old Schuetzen boys did some remarkable things with the .32/40 up to 200, and the .38/55 out to 300 yds. I think those guys were the most serious cast bullet shooters ever, though they lacked many of the advantages of modern barrels, powders, scopes, etc. Still, the average Schuetzen shooter could probably shoot rings around the "average" modern shooter, I'd bet. Just a matter of them knowing their rifles, and according to Harvey Donaldson and others, the really dedicated shooters used to almost sleep with their rifles, and many shot them daily, taking note of even the tiniest changes due to weather, etc.

I think if I ever get my round tuit to build a Schuetzen style rifle, it'll be a .32/40. That way, I could use either black or gray powder. If only smokeless, then the .32 Dell might get the nod, but I really LIKE shootin' black, so ....

But then, it's that darn .45/70 that got me to casting for rifles to start with, so .... I'd have to rate it right up there at the top for me. Just need more experience with more comparisons so I can be SURE of that, right? ;-)

[BFRmaster]

I agree with those who have mentioned the 45-70 as the best. I would only add that not only is it the best RIFLE cartridge, it's the best HANDGUN cartridge, too!

[MTWeatherman]

MT;
So long as .30-30 brass is available, .25-35, 32sp, .38-55 and .375 are easily made.


Good thing the 30-30 remains so popular, it'll help keep those other cartridges around for reloaders even if the brass disappears.

I don't personally know any .375 Win users but several years ago ran into one at the range. He expressed concern about the brass availability. When I asked him if it was possible to reform from other calibers, he said no. The head is much stronger on the .375 than it is on the 30-30 class of cartridges. Any reformed cases from the 30-30 class etc. would not handle the pressure. Since the .30-30 is rated at 38,000 CUP and the .375 Win at 52,000 CUP, that made sense to me and I took him at his word. If he is correct, yes you could reform from the .30-30 (though neck wall thickness would be pretty thin) but you'd have to accept downloaded performance and you'd have a .375 Win in name only. Likely still a good cast shooter though...at least the rifle wouldn't totally be without any fodder to feed it.

However, I'd really like to know if brass reformed from 30-30 or .32 Special would have the case head strength to handle .375 Win pressures. Its an important issue if one is considering purchasing the rifle. Drinks?...or anyone?

[onceabull]

MTWea----------: Lacking pressure test equip.or the desire to pay someone to do it,I've always tried to stay somewhat under loads others have reported as "safe"when using reformmed 30/30 cases in my 375's. Hasn't created any problems for me as I shoot only cast in the BigBores and the Marlin..Look into what Paco Kelly wrote up re:using factory 38/55 brass to load some of His Full House 375W stuff. I doubt that brass was intrinsically stronger that reformed 30/30 stuff,but his work was done with the "Old" full length spec. 38/55 brass. (Which is what I'm using to load jacketed full power load for my Sav.99 in 375W.) fwiw, Onceabull

[MTWeatherman]

Onceabull:

Thanks...nothing beats first hand experience. I hadn't seen the Paco Kelly article, but will try to locate it.

[rocklock]

Since we're looking for the best CB cartridge in the WORLD, let me toss in a dark horse: the venerable 8x57 Mauser.

True, the bullet selection isn't what it once was but enough old 8mm moulds show up at gun shows and auctions to keep things interesting.

[waksupi]

Since we're looking for the best CB cartridge in the WORLD, let me toss in a dark horse: the venerable 8x57 Mauser.

True, the bullet selection isn't what it once was but enough old 8mm moulds show up at gun shows and auctions to keep things interesting.

Rocklock, that is a very good choice. I'd place it right up amoung the best of the .35 candidates in general, and a cast bullet rifle in particular. No sense in building another rifle, if you already have a good 8mm. Although , I notice it hasn't stopped me! If you guys don't own an 8mm, though, you're missing out!

[The Nyack Kid]

Its too bad that the 40 calsomething-or-others have fallen by the wayside , they have alot to offer a cast boolit shooter.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

shame on you all, it's a well known fact that the 356 Winchester is THE best CB case to work with. Its 307 baby brother is the best place to start on a rimmed 30BR or similiar version for SS rifles; but, but...the 356 is a perfect case for us cast boolit hunters/shooters. Shoot anywhere from 125gr GC pistol boolits to 300gr heavy hitting hunting RFN's.
Think outside the box.

JMHO

Rich