A personal pistol question.

[Beekeeper]

I looked but didn't find a place I thought this would fit so Maybe you will take pity on me and answer it anyway!
I am going to get a CCW and would like to know from someone the best(not least expensive) weapon to purchase?
I have been reading a lot of posts and everyone has a diferent idea on what is the best!
I was thinking on getting a Berreta 9 MM but am open for any suggestions or info to the contrary or in favor of.
Thanks in advance for any info you are willing to give!



beekeeper

[Wayne Smith]

Go to a range that rents guns and has a good, knowlegable person running it. Shoot various guns until you find one you shoot well and is comfortable. Then talk to the person running the range about various carry options, or ask who locally to inquire about such things. Look into various carry options and see if you find one that fits you. If you do, good on you. If you don't, go back to the range and work with your second and third choice guns until you become competent with one of them, look at carry options, etc, etc.

What works for you is what you want. Don't worry what the rest of us think!

[gon2shoot]

As has been said, find a gun that works for YOU.
If you buy somthing that does't fit or is uncomfortable to shoot you won't carry it.
A handgun is as personal as footwear, choose somthing that will be comfortable to you day after day. Whether it's a 8 3/8 mdl 29 or a 25 auto (please dont) it will be YOUR gun.

I'm old school, I'm partial to snubbie revolvers.:roll:

[Heavy lead]

Yup, each to their own, but give me a Smith 642. Don't even know you have it in your pocket most of the time, and hammerless.

[No_1]

I agree with Wayne completely. Do like he said and then come back with questions about the ones you like. Do consider the holsters available for the gun you choose because those come in all shapes and configurations also. I would not let the gun shop change your final decision because they may just be trying to sell you what they want you to have or one that is hard to move from their stock.
Guns are tools. The tool that "fits" you, shoots right for you and is priced for you will be the gun that works for you. This will be the tool you have to depend on for CCW so it better be the one that fits you like a glove.

Robert

[No_1]

Adding to my last post, I am not sure how much experience you have with guns. If your experience is limited then I would suggest a double action revolver. No cocking or racking of the slide, no safety to forget, no BS. Just take it out, point and shoot. In most situations that will require you to draw, you will not have time to think and taking that into consideration the revolver would be the no brain answer.

Robert

[theperfessor]

You'll probably get a lot of comments on this, but here are some things I thought about when selecting a carry weapon.

(1). You'll carry it more than you will use it. Find something that fits your body shape and mode of dress. If it isn't comfortable you won't carry it.
(2). Your behavior and environment are unique to your lifestyle. What threats are you most likely to face?
(3). Pick an effective caliber and by the best ammo you can get. If it won't kill a large wild dog it won't stop a determined adversary with a chemically altered physiology.
(4). Practice enough to be competent at all phases of armed carry - concealment, presentation, shooting and reloading.

For these reasons I carry a .38 +P rated S&W 642 hammerless J-frame most of the time and a .44 Special S&W 296 hammerless L frame in the winter when I can conceal it better. Both are light, have Lasergrips and I carry one speedloader each.

I'll trade the limited ammo capacity for the versatility of ammo types and the lack of safety catches, etc. to deactivate. Others may feel different, just my opinion.

[NSP64]

My preferance for a personal protection firearm would be a DA revolver. .357/38 I might even consider .327 mag. I don't even own a revolver, I have a 45auto. I have owned DA revolvers(44mag,357mag). If I was going to carry with my life at stake it would be a DA revolver.



If I was carrying in the open (LEO/Military) it would be my 45

[bobk]

Points to remember: you'll never talk to anyone who has been in a gunfight who will tell you that they had wished for a smaller caliber. And, if you have an effective caliber in a very light gun, it will be unpleasant to shoot and this will make the process of becoming proficient more difficult. The other side of that coin is that the Beretta seems to best fit those people with large hands. Since the same sized guns are available in 9MM and 40, get the 40. Police, in the process of reinventing the wheel, found the 9 wanting. Never heard anything bad about the 40, however.

In the process of carrying the gun, you may find yourself buying a bunch of holsters until you get the one that is the best. If you have purchased a gun that is common and popular, you will find the surplus holsters easier to sell.

Bob K

[Blammer]

Plan to spend about $1,000 on stuff you will try and discard because it doesn't work for you. Holsters, belts, mag carriers, speed loaders, and misc stuff. Not counting the firearms.

For starters I'd recommend a hammerless 38 special revolver with a 2" brl. Now try to carry it conceiled. Where will you carry it? Is it comfortable? Can you draw it quickly ALL the time?

This will get you in the mode of thinking HOW to carry, HOW YOU will carry, and what options are out there for it.

In time you can decide if you want more bigger, smaller, different etc....

sorry that's all the help I can offer.

[TexRebel]

maybe this link will help, I put a lot of time into it, and this is easier than retyping all the info http://www.texrebel.com/hndgun.html

[Beekeeper]

Thank you all for your help. The answers were good and to the point which is more than I got on a couple of other sites.
I think my next step is the pistol range if I can find one in less than 100 miles.
Around here everything gun related is at least 100 miles as the Dems. have run everything out of the area.
Only 1 gun shop within 50 miles and there they charge for the air you breathe while in the store.
Again thanks for the good info.




beekeeper

[JIMinPHX]

Much good information has already been given. I can find very little that I would not endorse.

I have a slightly different method for selecting CCW guns than most other people do. I start by assessing the threat that I want to defend against (number & quality of assailants, their likely armaments, etc.). I then select the caliber & number of rounds that I think I need to carry. I then select the firearm(s), boolit loops/magazine(s) & holster(s) that are appropriate to deliver said ammo.

Generally you want a gun that is small enough to carry, big enough to shoot well & reliable enough to go bang EVERY TIME you pull the trigger. How big is big enough depends on what you expect to need to shoot at. If it is some steroid sponge on crank, then you want a large caliber hand cannon. If you are going to be up against a dozen little street punks with knives, then a high capacity medium caliber weapon is more realistic. If you are going to protect against a brown bear, then you want a .44Mag or better.

As for me, I usually carry a little 5-shot J-frame .357. 5-shots is more than enough for any situation that I am LIKELY to encounter & a .357 has plenty of 1-shot punch. I like lots of 1-shot punch because every shot you take is a chance to miss your target & hit an innocent bystander. I don't like taking extra shots, despite what a SWAT instructor tried to teach me.

I sometimes go down to a .380 or mini Makarov in extremely hot weather. When it's 115 degrees outside & people are just barely able to walk down the street as it is from the heat, you don't need much punch to knock an attacker over. In that situation, a small caliber is more than thick & rich enough to get the job done.

I reach for a snub nosed .44 when in bear country. End of story.

If I think that the big chunks are about to hit the fan, then I strap on a full size 1911 & reach for a long gun. If I am strapping on the .45, I am also making plans to move somewhere else because I am somewhere that I don't want to be again in the future.

If I had to pick a single gun to recommend for all around CCW use by an average person, it would probably be a small gun made by a high quality manufacturer in either .357 mag, .40 cal or 9mm. But then...Who is really average?

Probably clear as mud...sorry about that.

[JIMinPHX]

I think my next step is the pistol range if I can find one in less than 100 miles.
Around here everything gun related is at least 100 miles as the Dems. have run everything out of the area.

beekeeper

What area are you in?

[BruceB]

My OPINION is that the "floor" caliber is the .38 Special. Nothing smaller need apply for the job.

At or above the "floor" level, I think ammunition choice is more critical than the chambering. I would rather have my 9mm Cor-Bon carry load (115 @ 1270 fps, CHRONOGRAPHED) than .45 FMJ. (But, I'd really rather have the .45 stuffed with Federal 230 Hydra-Shok over the 9mm.)

I'll note that if a gun is big enough to accept the .45, then it will BE a .45...no large-frame 9mms or .40s need apply. My 9mm is a Star Firestar, about the size of most .380s. As such, it's a fine compact package.

One place where the revolvers really shine is in "proving" the ammo, because to buy enough top-notch defensive ammo to prove a load's reliability in an autoloader is an expensive proposition. 100 failure-free rounds is my MINIMUM standard for a defensive load in an autoloader, and at a dollar per round.....!

In the revolver, as long as it ejects freely, we are good to go. It constantly amazes me how frequently the S&W 642 is cited as "the" gun which is actually carried. I just happen to have one in my front jeans pocket as I write! It's in a cheapo Uncle Mike's pocket holster, safety-pinned to the pocket lining so the gun comes out WITHOUT the holster. Also, it's the ONLY object that ever gets into that pocket, ever. The carry load is Federal's 129-grain Hydra-Shok, which departs at over 800 fps.

Assessing the threat is good, but even more important is the First Rule: HAVE A GUN!

[Boerrancher]

Please Don't buy a Barretta Mod 92. The one I carried in Afghanistan was kept as clean as I could keep it and the first time my life depended on it it failed. The open slide is too prone to picking up dust, dirt, lint, etc which causes it to fail. It was bad enough that I traded it to my Company Clerk for his M-16 A2, as he didn't leave the FOB and I was out nearly every day. Other than that bit of advice, there has been much given here that has been good and should give you plenty to think about.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Beekeeper]

I am in what is called the Inland Empire part of Ca.
On I15 between San Diego and Riverside.
The only pistol range I can find ( looking in the Phone book) Is in SanDiego
Go to the Gun sore (about 50 Miles round trip) and they look at you like you kicked them you know where when you ask a question.
I think They think you are supposed to know all the answers before you come in or are there to buy a EBR as 90% of their stock is that.
Other than that it is LA i guess.

After a lot of reading My choises have been narrowed down to a snubby .38 , but am going to take everyones advice and try to go to a pistol range and try them all first.

Boorrancher I agree with you on the military 9 MM. Also I think you did right picking up those poor lonsome,lost w/W, The people in the car just didn't understand your compassion for the poor unfortunates


beekeeper

[Flinchrock]

Personal viewpoint,,,as long as it starts with a 4 !!

[Old Ironsights]

Beekeeper: If you are "settling" on a .38 remember one very important thing...

Your best .38 is a .357. The difference in weight between some .38/.357s in the same brand are negligible... and you have a LOT more utility.

My 2p anyway. FWIW, I carry a Ruger SP101 but there are smaller .357s as well.

[9.3X62AL]

Beekeeper--

There is an indoor range in the City of San Bernardino on South Lugo Avenue, 1100 block South IIRC. They have rental pistols of several types, and I can't find my San Bernardino phone book since I moved to Ridgecrest to provide a phone number or exact address for you.

The Beretta 92/96 is kinda big for a concealment sidearm. I used a 96 for my uniform-duty pistol for 5 years, and trying to lug it around after-hours was a bit much. My own tastes run toward "Colt Commander"-sized autopistols (full-sized frame, 4"-4.5" barrel) and 3"-4" revolvers for all-purpose usage.

[nvbirdman]

Just remember, quality lasts a lifetime. Inexpensive may only last your lifetime.

[3rptr]

Disturbing to hear an anecdote as the Boer's.

Try a look-see at this page.

Glock 21 Torture Test

ThePrepared Gear Review: Glock 21 .45acp (Performed by Bigbore of Adco Firearms)

For almost 10 years I’ve been abusing and neglecting my Glock 21. Its been a running joke among some friends and I. Nothing was planned or documented. As I tell people what it has been through, most simply don’t believe me. I guess I wouldn’t either. If someone told you their Glock has at least 150K rounds through it and has gone almost 15K rounds with no cleaning or maintenance would you believe them?


http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90


It's impressive.

[JIMinPHX]

I am in what is called the Inland Empire part of Ca.
On I15 between San Diego and Riverside.
The only pistol range I can find ( looking in the Phone book) Is in SanDiego
Go to the Gun sore (about 50 Miles round trip) and they look at you like you kicked them you know where when you ask a question.
...
After a lot of reading My choises have been narrowed down to a snubby .38 ...

beekeeper

You might want to take a field trip over to Vegas for a day. I hear that there are a bunch of ranges there that rent by the hour. A bunch of them advertise that they rent machine guns to get the tourists to stop in, but I assume that they have handguns too.

Alternately, there are two places in Phoenix that offer a good selection of handguns to rent. They are Shooter's World (AKA Arizona Tactical) & Scottsdale Gun Club. They are a bit pricey & I really don't like either place & I really don't trust their advice, but they do have plenty of hardware that you can try out.

If you are thinking of getting a .38, then get a .357. You can always stick .38 ammo in a .357. It doesn't work the other way around. Keep your options open. You never know what the future may bring. Some day you may want the extra punch of the hotter caliber.

[Catshooter]

Since you ask for the best: Smith & Wesson Shorty 45. Three and three quarter inch barrel, aluminum receiver, seven plus one.

It's a Performance Center pistol and they were only made in the '90s, so they can be hard to find. But they are worth it.

Extremly reliable and accurate? Well the first eight rounds I stuffed in mine went into a group at 20 yards that hides completely behind a quarter. The whole group.

I love mine.


Cat

[MKT]

I am in what is called the Inland Empire part of Ca.
On I15 between San Diego and Riverside.
The only pistol range I can find ( looking in the Phone book) Is in SanDiego
Go to the Gun sore (about 50 Miles round trip) and they look at you like you kicked them you know where when you ask a question.
I think They think you are supposed to know all the answers before you come in or are there to buy a EBR as 90% of their stock is that.
Other than that it is LA i guess.

beekeeper

Beekeeper,

It almost sounds like you are describing a gunshop in Fallbrook. Have you tried the folks at The Shootist in Murrieta? They actually like talking to people there and most of the guys are pretty up on their stuff. A lot of folks are buying now, have been for the past few months. I don't think I seen a quite day in there since before October. I was in yesterday and there were folks up and down the counter filling out 4773's, the husband/wife team to my right were buying a pair of Model 29's.

I can tell you that right now they have a couple snubby .38's that would fit your needs just fine. As far as a range goes, I don't know of any indoor ranges around where you can rent guns, that doesn't mean they don't exist though. Our closest range is right in Rainbow (kinda behind the checkpoint), but you have to be a member, or accompanied by a member to shoot.

If you go to The Shootist, talk to Steve and tell him I sent you.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Short & Sweet. Get a handgun that is as small as possible and as comfortable to carry concealed. Get a handgun in as powerful a caliber as possible that you can control and hit targets reliably with. :Fire: Robert

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo All, my personal preference is the 1911 45apc for PP.
If the weather is warm , the Ruger SP 101 3" 357 gets my nod
If I'm walking in the woods, S&W 29 4"44

I am parshall to the big bores, don't have any use fo 9mm & smaller, if my life is at stake, I want to end the threat, 1 shot , done.[smilie=1:

[Bret4207]

I'm not familiar with what dangers lurk where you live, but here are my thoughts. For a reasonable minimum I'd say 380/9mm/9mmMak or a 38 Special. I'd stay away from the extremely light/tiny guns like the Scandium S+W series or deringers. I would think of something the size of a J frame Smith or Walther PPK or clone as small as I'd want to go. I've owned 25 autos and such and while I had no issue with them, they are hard to shoot. With she modern ammo available the 380 is a decent round. No, it's not a 500 S+W but neither are a lot of 9mm's. Some folks can shoot a lighter recoiling gun better and the 380 or a light loaded 38 can work.

To me a J frame 38 is a fine carry gun. I prefer the shrouded hammer as opposed to hammerless, but that's just me. I like the option of a well placed single action shot, but I also live in the sticks and am a lot more likely to be shooting a wounded animal at 20 yards than a group of MZB's at 7 yards.

Another fine choice IMO is the Charter 44 Bulldog, still 5 shots, not too much bigger than the J frame and much more punch.

In truth any J or K frame Smith, short 1911, PP or PPK clone, Ruger 101, Colt Det Special....any reliable gun of at least .35 cal that you feel comfortable with is a good choice. What you need to learn is how to avoid problems. Judgment is the best backup you can possibly have.

[Char-Gar]

A personal/CCW pistol involves some compromises. It must be big enough to shoot well, and small enough to conceal well. It must be in an effecive caliber, but again not so big as to not conceal well.

I chose and have been carrying a SIG P239 in 9mm for 12 years now and am still happy with the choice. It is not the pistol I would choose for a house/ranch/farm pistol, but it works well for a concealed carry. With the better ammo now available, it is also an effective personal defense weapon. SIG also makes it in 40 S&W.

[Old Ironsights]

Disturbing to hear an anecdote as the Boer's....

Wait untill you've mastered the art of taking the slide off of a 92 while the other guy is pointing at you...

It's a lot easier than you would think...

[Old Ironsights]

......In truth any J or K frame Smith, short 1911, PP or PPK clone, Ruger 101, Colt Det Special....any reliable gun of at least .35 cal that you feel comfortable with is a good choice. What you need to learn is how to avoid problems. Judgment is the best backup you can possibly have.

Amen.

[Beekeeper]

MKT your shop is the one I am talking about.
Every time I have been there they act like they are doing a favor just to talk to me.
Went there one time to buy a .223 ,bolt action, walnut stock, open sights, listed on their website.Went there with the money jangling in my pocket to buy
After a 15 minute wait to get waited on I told the salesman what I wanted( just as stated above) he brought me a EBR and said I didn't want the other one. When I said I did he walked away and never came back.Spoke to the others and they avouded me like I had the plague.
Will not ever go back.I hate people who want to tell me how to spend my money

I am going to ElCajon Ca. in a couple of weeks and will look for a pistol at the El Cajon gun exchange.

How did you do on the lead deal?

beekeeper

[Boerrancher]

Wait untill you've mastered the art of taking the slide off of a 92 while the other guy is pointing at you...

It's a lot easier than you would think...


I had a Drill Instructor when I was a young soldier who could cross a 12 ft room and steal the slide off of your 92 before you could get a shot off. He was good at it. The lesson I learned from that one was to Keep my 92 close to my body instead of sticking it out for people to grab.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[MKT]

MKT your shop is the one I am talking about.
Every time I have been there they act like they are doing a favor just to talk to me.
Went there one time to buy a .223 ,bolt action, walnut stock, open sights, listed on their website.Went there with the money jangling in my pocket to buy
After a 15 minute wait to get waited on I told the salesman what I wanted( just as stated above) he brought me a EBR and said I didn't want the other one. When I said I did he walked away and never came back.Spoke to the others and they avouded me like I had the plague.
Will not ever go back.I hate people who want to tell me how to spend my money

I am going to ElCajon Ca. in a couple of weeks and will look for a pistol at the El Cajon gun exchange.

How did you do on the lead deal?

beekeeper

Beekeeper...I'm at a loss here, not something I would have ever expected from those guys. I will state that they have taken on a few new hands since my last trip in, probably due to the onslaught of customers.

The guys at El Cajon Gun Exchange seemed like OK folks on the couple of times I've been in there. Those trips found the shop lacking in revolvers and very heavy on the autos. I haven't been there in about a year (even though I work a few blocks from there).

Haven't been able to swing by the lead place. I just switched to an early day shift, but with my homeward commute in traffic I'm not getting home until after 6p most days. Hopefully I'll be able to get off a little early one day this week. Are they open on Saturday? In conjunction with my shift change my days off changed as well, lost my coveted Monday off and have been saddled with Saturday and Sunday.

[Beekeeper]

MKT, Open on saturday but not sunday even tho the sign says they are.
The experiance at the gun shop was over a year ago.
Haven't been back since.
Maybe your occupation has something to do with your treatment.
Being retired isn't a good occupation I guess.


beekeeper

[eka]

Beekeeper, we are fortunate to be in the golden age of concealed carry arms. Plain clothes policemen of 25 or more years ago had only a very few choices. A snub .38 or if you could find one a Star PD was a cherished companion. Now, just about every manufacture you can name makes a carry gun I would be content to own and carry. Most of the top choices have already been named. Just be glad you have many choices, it's a good thing. I don't remember seeing it mentioned, but somebody may have, anyway Kahr Arms makes very nice units as well. Probably wouldn't do well if you were going to put a quadrillion rounds through one, but for a gun that gets shot fairly regularly, but carried way more, their good. And if you're like me, just get a representative example of your top ten and carry them all, not at the same time of course. Some days I feel like a revolver man and some days I feel like a semi man. Different guns and holsters for different manners of dress. Women call it accessorizing. But never forget, your gun is your second best survival weapon. Your brain is the first.

Keith

[Old Ironsights]

I had a Drill Instructor when I was a young soldier who could cross a 12 ft room and steal the slide off of your 92 before you could get a shot off. He was good at it. The lesson I learned from that one was to Keep my 92 close to my body instead of sticking it out for people to grab. ...

I love the look on a Beretta guy's face when in Retention class you ask him if he wants to be beaten to death with his own gun just before you take the slide off and almost, but not quite (it is training...) biatch-slap him with it... :twisted:

[JIMinPHX]

I had a Drill Instructor when I was a young soldier who could cross a 12 ft room and steal the slide off of your 92 before you could get a shot off. He was good at it. The lesson I learned from that one was to Keep my 92 close to my body instead of sticking it out for people to grab.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

I had a similar experience that taught me that eyes & muzzle should enter through the door at exactly the same instant.

[Murphy]

Beekeeper,

I am always reluctant to reply on matters of 'best carry gun/caliber' due to the many choices that are out there.

Knocking another persons choice in a concealed carry choice is pretty much equivalent to speaking less than kind of their choice when it comes to their dog.

That being said, I'll risk it and put my 2 cents in.

Caliber, barrel length and ammuntion is the deciding factor in my choices.

Caliber is first and foremost in my decision of what I carry. 45 ACP is my first choice when it's convenient. When I carry a 1911, I prefer it to be a full sized 5" barrel. My reason being is due to ammuniton performance. The .45 ACP was designed and meant to be fired from a 5" barrel. The shorter the barrel, the less velocity. Less velocity equals less performance for the given ammuniton one chooses. Choose wisely here.

Second is a .357 magnum. All the reasons given above apply here as well. The .357 can be had in smallish 5 shot J frames all the way up to big honker N frames. Plus the big bonus of being able to use .38 specials for practice or use for dispatching pests of various kinds.

Both of the above are proven winners, you can't go wrong with either. Just make sure you like the platform in which you choose to carry either caliber in. It's a known fact if you don't like the feel and weight of a gun, most likely you'll wind up leaving it in the car or at home.

9mm's are very effective fight stoppers as well with the proper barrel length and ammuntion.

If I have to hide behind a handgun? It'll be my 1911 5" (Or my XD45 5") stoked with Federal Hydra-Shok 230 Grain ammuntion. Followed by a 4" .357 magnum loaded with 125 Grain Hollow Points (Federal also). If I were to carry my 9mm? 115 Corbon +P+ ammunition.

Hope this is of some help, just my personal choices.

Best of luck and let us know how your choice turns out.

Thanks,

Murphy

[725]

no 1 gave very good advice. Since you ask the question, we can assume you have limited experience. Somebody with limited experience should go with a revolver of good quality, stainless for ease of care, no adjustable sights for ease of carry, and small enough to not to be left behind because it's a nuisance to carry. .38 Special is plenty of gun. .44 Special / .45 Colt is better. .357 & .44 Mags are alot of gun and are more intimidating & expensive to learn on. But, in the end, it's whatever you want and whatever you are willing to master. You can't expect to "buy the right one" and think you're good to go. Whatever you get requires solemn, mature and dedicated training. I suggest finding a good mentor and hanging on his/her coattails for awhile.

[MKT]

MKT, Open on saturday but not sunday even tho the sign says they are.

beekeeper

Thanks Beekeeper. I'll try to swing by Saturday and check it out.

[KCSO]

Best is going to be a very personal thing. A revolver is perfect if you can't pull the sliide back on an auto. If you can pull a little but not much a blowback pistol is out. If you can stand the recoil a 45 is better than a 9mm ??? but if you flinch at any loud noise a 22 may be your maximuum. You really need to go to the range several times with folks and shoot several different guns and see what you can handle and what works for you. You need to consider power, ergonomics, availability, intended use, intended users and amout of use the gun will get amoung other things. The dumbest thing I could do is give you a flat out BUY a 1911 pat answer as only YOU will be able to say if it is right for YOU. When I ran a gun shop we had a range area for customers to try out different guns. There is nothing like being on the range with 6 different guns to help the decision process. Just remember that a hit with a 22 is worth anyy amount of noise from 45 caliber miisses. You need a gun YOU can handle and hit with.