Hunting deer with WW 45-70

[Leadlum]

I`m planning on hunting deer this season with my 45-70. I`m casting 325gr flat round nose, rcbs bullets. I`m using straight wheel wieghts to cast them. I`m running them around 1300-1400fps. My question is. Is that a good thing to do? are they going to be too soft? has anyone else hunted with this kind of bullet? and speed? any replys are welcomed.

[TCLouis]

Leadlum

Just a couple of nosey questions . . .

What gun are you shooting these out of?
What is your loading data.
What is accuracy like.

I bought this to hunt with using my Contender and it would NOT shoot them worth a flip. Only marginally better performance out of my Remington Rolling Block!

I got so discouraged I kinda put it on the back burner and did NOT shoot any more.

The contender puts 3 of the funny coated bullets into one over sized hole at 50 so I know it is capable of great things!

[Leadlum]

Hello Louis; I shoot a Marlin 1895ss, the old style with pistol grip and 22in barrel. I use about 30-32grs of IMR4198 with that RCBS 325 gr FRN cast bullet. It groups well; I never scoped the rifle. I use a lyman peep. I get about 2" group at 50yds. Before flinch sets in. lol... I`m real happy with the accuracy of the marlin.

[JohnH]

Perhaps this will help....

Two seasons past, I killed two does using 265 grain cast bullets from my 44 Magnum NEF with a muzzle velocity of a very modest 1275 fps. Worked very nicely, I couldn't tell any difference in the killing effectiveness of that load and a max charge of H110 driving Speers 270 grain Gold Dot to 1575 fps which I also killed 2 deer with that same season. All the shots were between 25 and 40 yards.

This past year I shot a spike with a 45-70 using a pure lead 405 grain bullet driven at 1200 fps. The bullet hit the foreleg bone breaking it and exited out the lower neck. The deer ran 15 yards or so and lay down, it required a coup de grac, but the load was very effective at bringing the animal down. Had my shot been 1" back it would have peirced the lungs cleanly. Never the less, the load worked well.

The 45-90 Winchester drove 300 grainers to circa 1800 fps and is the ballistics duplicated by the current Winchester 300 JHP load for the 45-70. The black powder 45-70 would only drive the 300 grainer to circa 1550-1600 fps.

The modern 475 Linebaugh drives 400 grainers to nearly 1500 fps and has been used to kill cape buffalo and elephant. This looks like modern 45-70 performance to me.

Your load using a 325 grain bullet at 1300-1400 fps is equal to if not superior to any 44 Magnum revolver pushing 300 grainers which are highly touted to be potent deer medicine. I would prefer a velocity of 1600 fps, this begins to put you into 454 Casull territory, but well placed shots with your load will fill your freezer just as well. For what it is worth, a 44 Magnum rifle will deliver 1500 fps with 300 grainers.

[44man]

leadlum, I think you will be OK as long as they are accurate. No, they are not soft. It really depends on the size of the meplat as to what hardness you can use. I use a 317 gr boolit from my 45-70 revolver that is a LOT harder then WW metal but it has a large LBT style flat nose. Believe me, deer are dead right now. If you have a small meplat then you want an even softer boolit. It all depends on the boolit design. You can go all the way to pure lead in your 45-70 as long as it shoots good.
And TC, there will be a cast boolit out there that the TC will like. It depends a lot on the twist rate of your gun. Keep trying and never give up. I know it will shoot.

[old gunner]

I use a fairly soft mix, and they are quite accurate. I mix 10 Lbs. soft lead with one half Lb. 50/50 solder. I sometimes think the tin only serves to make a nice looking casting. If the pressure in your load is on the light side, the soft slug upsets better, and may improve the accurcy. At about 1200 FPS, I have not recovered any after hitting a deer, but work they do.
Bill

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It should indeed be a very useful load on anything deer-sized. 5 tin, which old gunner's alloy is, would probably fill the corners of the mould a little better than pure lead, and might be less liable to lead the bore, even than wheelweights. The latter have more antimony than lead, because it's cheaper, and they can feel hard, and yet have pure lead exposed between a lattice of antimony crystals.

I don't believe there is much to be gained by loading these bullets to higher velocity, especially if you would rather not use gas-checks, which you don't mention. It would only make them more destructive of meat. But if longer-range performance could sometimes be useful, and if you could stand a little more recoil in that rifle, you could improve matters with heavier bullets at a similar velocity. But a lightweight Martini with 405gr. bullets at 1700ft./sec. was the only rifle I've ever not enjoyed shooting.

Parallels like the .475 Linebaugh are liable to be misleading, for the people who use monstrous revolvers on dangerous game are usually very expert, very eager to prove a point, and backed up by someone with a proper gun whom they don't mention in the articles. Those animals don't get lost when wounded nearly as easily as a woodland deer, either. But you aren't doing a thing wrong unless you would like more range.

[JDL]

Leadlum,
I have just started to load with the same boolit and have got very good results so far. My load is 30 grains of SR-4759 which pushes it 1542 fps out of my B-78 and has grouped slightly less than 2" at 100 yards for 5 groups. The meplat measures .30" on mine, which is slightly better than .25" on my Lyman 457191 that I've used since 1976. Never shot a deer with the Lyman, but it will kill coyotes very dead, and there's no point in skining them after doing so!
I still perfer using the paper patched lead boolits for deer in my .45/70, but I may try the W/W mix for elk, then again, the pp lead has worked very well on them also.-JDL

[wills]

I was reading an article recently in a back issue of Handloader which spoke highly of the Gould/Ideal/Lyman 330 grain hollowpoint.

[C1PNR]

I was reading an article recently in a back issue of Handloader which spoke highly of the Gould/Ideal/Lyman 330 grain hollowpoint.
I'm sure I'll need to "Beagle" my mould, but that's the one I want to use in my Siamese Mauser 45/70. My earlier attempts were with no joy as the boolits were just too small.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif

I've noted these loads and think the weight of the boolits, at least, is close enough to give them a try later this year, maybe backing off a little to start.

[KCSO]

I've killed deer with both the 405 and the 330 Gould express and prefer the Gould for deer size game. I cast mine from 1 in 20 as the biggest problem i have had with the 45-70 on deer is that a hard bullet tends to slip right through on a chest shot and they can run some. Either facing or through the shoulders will drop them in their tracks. A 405 1 -20 will penetrate about 3 foot of flesh and bone with no problem out to 100 yards or more. If I were hunting inside 125 yards i don't think I would load past 1400 fps or so as that kills everything I've ever shot and isn't quite as punishing on the shoulder. Your wheel weight bullet will do the job, but I would try it in wet pack and see what the expansion looks like. If you can't get it over 1/2" you might want to go with a tad softer alloy. All this kind of depends where and how you hunt. Here abouts if you don't put your deer down before it gets to a fence someone else gets it. I you can track 'em aways any 45-70 that will hole them through both sides will kill them eventually, say within 300 yards or so. I don't think you will notice any difference shooting them with a condom load or your load at this velocity. I have shot a lot with an 1886 Winchester and 45-70 Gould bullets loaded to 1400 and have never lost a deer or buffalo.

[anachronism]

I`m planning on hunting deer this season with my 45-70. I`m casting 325gr flat round nose, rcbs bullets. I`m using straight wheel wieghts to cast them. I`m running them around 1300-1400fps. My question is. Is that a good thing to do? are they going to be too soft? has anyone else hunted with this kind of bullet? and speed? any replys are welcomed.

Leadlum- Honestly, although you can certainly take a deer with that bullet at that velocity, I believe you'll get better results with a little more velocity. I freely admit that I've only taken one deer with a 45-70, but I have taken several with an in-line muzzleloader, and have noticed that my I need considerably more lead on running deer with loads in the velocity range you're looking at, plus the bullets trajectory will be a lot flatter (for a 45-70) at higher speed. My lone 45-70 deer was shot with the RCBS 325 gr. bullet at about 1700 fps, and the deer was truly impressed with the results.

Bob