Airgun recommendations

[mtnman31]

Anyone recommend a decent airgun? I am looking at getting a pellet rifle. Want to stay away from CO2 cartridges and don't want to spend a ton of money. Definitely want something that will push a pellet over 1000fps. Any brands/models that come recommended? Any to stay away from?

I don't want to startle the neighbors but I am trying to get a handle on these squirrels - I am fed up with these little devils tearing up my plants. Tried wire mesh to keep them out but they are just getting out of hand. They are completely out of control and in my opinion poison is not a means I am willing to use.

I think I'll have to post on the WTB in the Swappin/Sellin forum and see if anyone has anything they are willing to part with.

[Bullshop]

If you have a 22 CF you can use that with just primers and air gun pellets. You get close to mag air gun performance with about the same noise. A little more expensive to shoot because your shooting a primer and a pellet but for just killin squirrels shouldnt cost much. Besides your saving the cost of a gun.
BIC/BS

[carpetman]

mtnman31---To get the velocity you mention will probably require a spring air gun--these are the ones that when you cock them they compress a large spring --no air is stored---they make the air when spring released. They are possibly louder than you want. Unless you spend a few bucks you may not get the best of quality in them. They also have a funny double whammy recoil sorta like popping a towel---this double action will wreck scopes not meant for it. I would recommend a Sheridan either Blue Streak or Silver Streak---same gun just different color of finish. New ones are drilled and tapped for a peep sight which I also recommend. The only downside is that they are 5mm .20 cal so places like Wal Mart dont sell that size pellet--so they cost a little more than run of the mill .17's or .22 pellets. The upside is that you get the best of both worlds between the two in my books. They will take out a squirrel. I've had em for years and they are pretty much trouble free. They have to be pumped up and I have found 4 pumps to be plenty for the most part.

[JeffinNZ]

A Red Ryder BB gun................but you'll shoot ya eye out.

[Kuato]

+1 to what Carpetman said. I have a Sheridan 392 .22 cal pump gun & I love it. Its very accurate & quieter than a spring gun. In 22, 8 pumps gives me about 700fps. Plenty for a treerat. There's also a pretty good selection of pellet types for .22. I've shot rats, squirrels, & even a couple of possums. Rarely, if ever, have I needed 8 pumps.
There is also a place that for a price will tune the Sheridan into a beast of an air rifle..

One of the best things about them is the barrels are brass. means NO rust or corrosion in bad weather. Plus it's kindda hard to beat an air rifle that's made out of brass, steel & WOOD! (American walnut).

[44man]

Friends are always bringing me those Gamo break barrel airguns to sight in, I just can't do it. None have been accurate enough to even sight in. They want to hunt squirrels to 50 yd's but all I can get are quarter size groups at 10 yd's. My one friend sent his back.
One friend has the RWS side cocking rifle and it is deadly.
The ones you pump up are much better. Years ago I had a Sheridan and I was shooting pigeons at 100 yd's with it.
CO-2 guns were a pain.

[bobk]

I bought a spring gun, and it is accurate, but difficult to shoot accurately because the trigger is so awful. The cheap old Chinese sidecocker I bought many years ago is fairly accurate, and the trigger is much better.

Bob K

[725]

It's a few bucks, but I can atest to the RWS sidecocker mentioned above. OMG! I have the .177 and wish I had the .22. Even though the .177 has never let me down. Up to and including raccoons.

[Boz330]

I bought a spring gun, and it is accurate, but difficult to shoot accurately because the trigger is so awful. The cheap old Chinese sidecocker I bought many years ago is fairly accurate, and the trigger is much better.

Bob K

The spring guns are very difficult to shoot accurately because of the spring recoil action. I have one of the Chicom copies of a Crossman co2 gun and it will shoot a quarter size group at 25yrds. It holds the gas plenty good over time. I keep it here at the shop for Starlings and I shot it the other day and it was still holding gas from a year or so back. I got mine from Compasseco out of Bardstown KY. They have everything else as well to as much money as you care to spend. FWIW I got one of the spring guns and never did learn to shoot it.

Bob

[Echo]

Or, Plan B. If you have a shotgun, try loading a plastic wad backwards, with no powder, just a primer. That wad comes out vigorously, and is danged accurate out to 50-60 ft. At that range you might not kill the tree rat, but it is definitely lethal at close range, and you don't have to worry about putting out the neighbor's window. I used these when a neighbor dog came over to visit, and leave evidence. A couple of experiences with getting whacked with a high-speed wad caused the dog to seek other, less intimidating, places to visit.
I loaded up some for my cousin, who had tree rats visiting his deck. They weren't used - his wife was squeamish about the poor little buggers, so they continue to use their trap to catch & release. I have little doubt that, at a range of 10', they would be lethal. Or at least, extremely discouraging.

[45nut]

The Benj-Sheridans are the best buy on the market in my humble opinion.
I was given a old silver streak that sat in a closet in yuma az for a few decades, it was rebuilt to factory spec since that time in the closet dried out the seals, but it is now a fantastic shooter.

I have found the 20 cal pellets available at a few stores across the counter but for a wider supply go to pyramidair.com , they have treated me very well.

[eka]

Friends are always bringing me those Gamo break barrel airguns to sight in, I just can't do it. None have been accurate enough to even sight in.

You know, I bought a Gamo .177 a while back, quiet a while back now, and haven't really messed with it a whole lot. But, from what I have seen so far, it hasn't impressed me. I just figured it was the cheap scope it came with or maybe just me. Now I'm beginning to wonder.

[Larry Gibson]

I've been shooting "springers" for years. They are not "difficult" to shoot they are just "different" to shoot. Doesn't take long to learn how to use the "artillery hold". I have 2 that I hunt with and shoot pests. I have killed over 70 brown and wharf rats off my sqirrel feeder with them plus possums, a couple coon and several feral cats. I've also hunted ground sqirrels and rabbits with them plus killed a gob of starlings, crows and magpies.

I'd suggest you drop the 1000 fps as your criteria and go for 15-20 ft/lbs and accuracy. Few air rifles have to power and accuracy for 50 yards shots except for the "scuba (PCP) air rifles. For back yard and garden shooting most often 30 yards shots are pretty long. Quality air rifles are just that; quality. That means they cost a few bucks. Get a cheap air rifle and you will be disappointed. The Benjamen mentioned is my bottem end recomendation. Next up is the Beehman R9 which is a barrel cocking air rifle. In .117 caliber it would be good for your needs. The .20 cal R9 is better but it's getting hard to find .20 cal pellets. I use a .20 cal R9 for most of my back yard and recreational pellet rifle shooting. It is plenty powerful enough with head shots for squirrels and has the accuracy for it. I've a siimple Simmons 4X air rifle scope on it and it works wonderfully. The next step is a RWS M48 or M52 in .22. Both are side lever cockers and are powerful (20 ft/lbs) and very accurate. These will get you the 50 yards you seek. Top of the line is the RWS M54 which is the same action as the M48/52 but has a "recoiless" feature. It does away with the need for the "artillery hold" and mine is deadly to 90 yards. If scoped a quality air rifle scope is a must. The 460 Magnum in .22 cal is another choice. It is an underlever cocker and is also very powerful and a quality rifle. It is slightly more powerful than the 48/52/54.

I would suggest anyone getting a quality air rifle for hunting or pest removal go straight to quality domed pellets. These are going to be the most accurate beyond 10 meters and kill the best. Forget about the test variety packs. Use the domed pellets for general use or Beehman Crow magnums for 30 yards and under.

The main advantage to springers are;

They are instantly ready. A pellet can be left in the breech and the rifle cocked instantly when picked up.

If you don't make the shot you can simply uncock them. They are then instantly ready for the next time.

Be advised that a CCI CB Long in a longer barreled .22LR rifle is quieter and more powerful than most all .22 cal air rifles of any power. Just as accurate generally if the rifle is accurate.


Larry Gibson

[enfield]

what would be the preferance with the benjamin sheridan . .22 or .177 . I think I want one.

[Kraschenbirn]

Gotta agree with Larry on the sidecocker spring guns. My RWS M52 has significantly reduced the number of bunnies feeding off our vegetable garden. I've upgraded the sights to a Mendoza aperature rear with an RWS globe front so headshots at 25-30M are no problem, at all.

Bill

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

I have been shooting my RWS Diana Mod 45 .177 1,100 fps for over 20 years It is not the most powerful nor the most accurate but will punch .177 pellets through 1/4 inch washers with 100% consistancy at 10 yards.

I dont have a scope as Air Rifles were not meant by God to have them and they are more fun without a scope. I have adjustable rear sites and a hooded front with interchageable apitures

It will take out a PorkyPine with a shot in the head at 10 yards and piss off a woodchuck at 30 yards.

Be sure to keep it well oiled with 3:1 oil and it cracks like a .22 going off for the first shot. I would like to Crongraph it. It has to be going a lot faster than it is advertised.


50 yards I would suggest that you get a .22 Henry

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/04-15-08-45.jpg

My rifle shoots best with these pellets
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/airgundepot_2042_55394543

[carpetman]

Yes the sidecocking RWS 52 is an accurate,hard hitting gun-----but it weighs 9.5 pounds without scope and it is loud. Between the .177 and the .22, I like the .177 better-----but I like the .20 5mm even better.

[carpetman]

NewEnglandCharters---Which part are you recommending to keep well oiled? Oil on exterior for rust protection is ok. The rest of the airgun very little to no oil. With oil on the interior it can detonate and cause what is called dieseling which is harmful and yes makes a loud crack---can ruin a gun I'm told??? Here is something funny to me---RWS instructions say dont oil---yet RWS sells chamber oil and spring cylinder oil. The manual also says that pellets leave a residue which is a good lube and for that reason the bore really shouldn't be swabbed. With air guns you don't have combustion thus they stay cleaner and don't require the cleaning that powder guns need.

[WickedGoodOutdoors]

So. If it Diesils and the oil explodes releasing its stored energy just as it does in an engine. That would mean that the piston would be traveling at a velocity equal to that of the expanding gases.

What is the velocity burn rate of Diesil? Also the combustion chamber is fireing upon release not upon compression? I suppose a pressure gage would be needed to figureout what is going on.





The oil goes in the hole on the barrel marked "Seven-Ten"





http://ac4.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/60e371e05e792296

[carpetman]

New England Charter---Don't get me to lying about the velocity burn rate of diesel and what the pistons and gases are doing. In his book "Air Gun Digest" J.I. Galan tells of an incident where a childhood friend blew up an air gun from dieseling. I've never seen it happen. I have heard a louder crack and seen smoke which I guess was dieseling. The other tid bits about not using oils were from manufacturers instructions.

[RayinNH]

I just pulled my Beeman manual out to see their recommendations for lubing, and I quote. "The compression chamber is that portion of the receiver where actual air compression takes place when the piston moves forward in shooting. The piston seal must remain moist with lubrication to reduce friction, create the best seal and prevent seal deterioration.Since the air is heated to as high as 2000 degress F for a fraction of a second upon firing, only high flash point lubricants must be used. this eliminates almost all petroleum based lubes and synthetics used in firearms and pneumatic airguns. they will cause dieseling (detonation) that can possibly damage the gun and injure the shooter. Only specialized synthetic and organic oils carefully selected for high flash point, proper lubricity and lack of impurities should be used. Apply this oil very sparingly. One or two drops every 5000 to 6000 rounds, or each 8-12 months, should be plenty.Ray

[bobk]

Bob,
Worked the trigger today, it's now going slightly under 4#, much better.

Larry,
Your gun recommendations all sound good, but I've not found the domed pellets to be good killers, at least in the 22. I have had better luck with the really pointy pellets. I tried the Crosmans in 22, but they're sort of a semipoint, and aren't all that great. You can hear the hit, but the game wobbles off (30 yards).

Bob K

[JIMinPHX]

It's been my experience that just about any of the 600fps+ air guns will shoot well if they are treated properly. If you snap the action shut smartly on the break-open-to-cock type guns, you will mess them up. The cheaper ones seem more sensitive to this, but even the good ones can get wrecked that way. Also, dry firing can be bad for the seals on some of them.

The pump up guns like the blue streak, Silver Streak, Benjemen, etc offer the advantage of allowing you to vary the power you select to your liking, but they seem to top out at about 3/4 the power that the big boys have. the pump up jobs seem to hold up a little better than the 1-cock guns of the same price range. My 20+ year old Sheridan is still a tack driver & I've never done a thing to her.

The big heavy guns from the name brands like RWS & Beemen are about the nicest things to shoot, but are a bit heavy to carry. They historically were the expensive ones, but now I see cheaper Beemens in places like Big 5 & Walmart. The cheap ones are made in China, not Germany.

About 10 years ago, Gamo was the best value brand on the market. Their prices have come up now. I believe that Daisy, Crossman, Sheridan, Benjemin & a few others are all owned by the same parent company now. There are too many other brands out there these days for me to keep track of the rest of them. I'm not sure how many of them are just brand labeled versions of the more standard offerings.

In general, the heavier pellets in the larger calibers have been better for hunting if you ask me. They knock stuff down better. .177 shoots a little flatter & is fine for squirrels. I prefer a .22 for rabbits. The .20 cal is a pretty good compromise if you just want to get one. Pointed pellets seem to penetrate better than other pellet designs. Pellet weight seems to be more important than tip design though. Hollow points are a waste. The little hollow point on the front of those things does next to nothing. Pellets are all made of dead soft lead & all expand if they are moving fast & hit something harder than just feathers or fur.

[SharpsShooter]

If you want accuracy, forget the spring guns and co2. PCP is the way to fly. I have shot half inch groups at 50 yards and 1.5 inch groups at 100. It is absolutely amazing. 17 or 22 and velocities of 1000fgps and 900 respectivly. The Benjamin Discovery will outshoot any springer you want to run. With a legal suppressor it quiet

http://www.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/Discovery_Combo_1704_zm-0.jpg


Say hello to my little friend.


SS

[JIMinPHX]

What is a "PCP" gun?

Edit:
Never mind. I just found out - http://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-discovery-22-combo.html

Those things look like fun.

[mtnman31]

I have done a bit more research and looked at some the suggestions provided. All I can say is GEEeezzzZ. Some of these pellet/BB guns are more expensive than a regular firearm! For what some fo these pellet guns cost I could get a tax stamp and a regular supressor to use with one of my .22's. Then again, I'd have to be a bit more cautious of what's beyond my target. Oh wait, I live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia right now , people aren't trusted enough to own silencers.

BTW - The PCP rifles look like a pretty slick set up - that may be the way I go.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo Folks, lots of information here, I have been thinking of a new air rifle, I have an old Benj..from a long time ago.

I think I'll give the RWS a go, we have way to many mud hut builders here in the summer, they make a big mess out of everything.

Thanks for the Info.:coffeecom

[carpetman]

Slow elk 45/70--If the mud hut builders you mention are swallows---they do make a mess but they too eat lots of mosquitoes--Alaska has a bunch of mesquitoes with the perma frost. They are a protected species and if you do shoot them---don't get caught.

[SharpsShooter]

I have done a bit more research and looked at some the suggestions provided. All I can say is GEEeezzzZ. Some of these pellet/BB guns are more expensive than a regular firearm! For what some fo these pellet guns cost I could get a tax stamp and a regular supressor to use with one of my .22's. Then again, I'd have to be a bit more cautious of what's beyond my target. Oh wait, I live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia right now , people aren't trusted enough to own silencers.

BTW - The PCP rifles look like a pretty slick set up - that may be the way I go.

They are great. I have a 6x24 on mine and it is deadly accurate. I have a friend that hunts squirrel with a similar setup. Yes they are expensive, but the practice value to your shooting as well as varmit control make it worth the bucks.

Pressurizing the resirvoir to 2000psi takes a bit the first time with the hand pump. I usully top mine off after 20-25 shots and it takes maybe 30 pumps. It's good exercise. I also use a 3000psi scuba tank to pressurize. No effort and fast. Lots of fills per tank too.

SS

[Larry Gibson]

With a quality springer;

No pump needed, no scuba tank need, no hoses or gauges needed, no trips to a scuba shop for a fill up (when you see what pumping those is really like and what the extra cost is) and no not finding the PCP pumped up when you need it.

With the springer you just pick up the rifle, the pellets, cock, load, aim, fire...it's that easy and simple. Every time I've gone shooting with someone who has a PCP air rifle we spend more time waiting for them to get "set up" than shooting. Actually the PCPs aren't bad for dedicated trips to the range or even hunting, if you have the scuba tank, but every PCP owner I know keeps a springer at home for pest shooting.

Larry Gibson

[SharpsShooter]

With a quality springer;

No pump needed, no scuba tank need, no hoses or gauges needed, no trips to a scuba shop for a fill up (when you see what pumping those is really like and what the extra cost is) and no not finding the PCP pumped up when you need it.

With the springer you just pick up the rifle, the pellets, cock, load, aim, fire...it's that easy and simple. Every time I've gone shooting with someone who has a PCP air rifle we spend more time waiting for them to get "set up" than shooting. Actually the PCPs aren't bad for dedicated trips to the range or even hunting, if you have the scuba tank, but every PCP owner I know keeps a springer at home for pest shooting.

Larry Gibson

Nope. My PCP will hold 2000psi charge for months and it is reccomended to leave them that way. FWIW, setup? What setup. If it needs charged it is no biggie. The gauge is on the gun. Simply attach the quick connect hose and open the tank up and watch the guns gauge. It took me longer to type that than it takes to do it. With the hand pump it is a bit more time consuming, but we aren't trying to stop a rouge chipmunk in mid charge. Realistically, we are talking about a few minutes. Now there are other advantages. I can use real scopes and am not limited to thoise designed for the reverse recoil of a springer. I can shoot 20 shots from prone without getting up to cock the rifle. Follow up shots for those tougher critters is a snap without any unneeded motion.

The only springer in this house is my sons red ryder:-D

SS

[monadnock#5]

I can't add much to the discussion as I have experience with only one design. Years ago, we had an old cherry tree that the song birds would eat from. They loved the cherries and we loved watching them. Then the crows would come along, drive the other birds off and continue to monopolize the tree long after they had eaten their fill.

At the time we had an airgun shop in town. After a consult with the owner, I went home with an RWS Mod 45 and have never looked back. It's very accurate and, with one cock of the barrel, is always ready when a target of opportunity presents itself. Blue Jays, tree rats and chipmunks don't stand a chance out to 75'. No, not a lot of range, but highly effective within the kill zone.

The crows don't have much to worry about since a winter storm turned the cherry tree into firewood. As a matter of fact they are the biggest beneficiaries of my purchase these days. They obviously consider tree rat a delicacy, and so far I've heard nothing of the crow population being endangered by lead poisoning. Go figure.

[9.3X62AL]

Two springers here, both RWS--a Model 45 in .177, and a Model 52 in 25 caliber. Not a misprint--it's a quarter-bore.

The 177 break-barrel runs Superpoints about 950 FPS, and those do in crows to 25 yards handily. The 25 caliber may have been re-sprung at one of the trick-out shops, 'cause it runs the 27 grain Crow Magnums to 780 FPS and puts the smack-down on ground squirrels at 30 yards right-now and prompt-like. It is one unholy bee-otch to cock, but makes the effort worthwhile on target.

For several years now, airguns at or over .20" caliber have been legal for use on resident small game and resident game birds in California, excepting DFG management units where waterfowl and migratory birds are taken. The condor-huggers seemed to have overlooked that bit of information. Aw, too bad.

[DanWalker]

Crossman 1377, prairie dog at 25 yards, center mass hit, with a witness....who lost the bet and had to buy lunch that day

[SharpsShooter]

Crossman 1377, prairie dog at 25 yards, center mass hit, with a witness....who lost the bet and had to buy lunch that day

Nice shot Dan. The pellet guns these days "ain'y yer daddy's red ryder" are they?

Here is another neat one. These were taken in a short afternoon's stand in a hickory wood with a split rail fence border. The most distant shot was 55 steps and the near was 30. It is a Benjamin Discovery in custom wood with a 5/8" hushpuppy.

SS

[Larry Gibson]

SharpsShooter

My PCP will hold 2000psi charge for months and it is reccomended to leave them that way. FWIW, setup? What setup. If it needs charged it is no biggie. The gauge is on the gun. Simply attach the quick connect hose and open the tank up and watch the guns gauge.

That's just the point; a springer doesn't require the gauge, the hose or the scuba tank (or the trip and expense to the dive shop or where ever the compressor an water tank is) to get it filled up).

It took me longer to type that than it takes to do it. With the hand pump it is a bit more time consuming, but we aren't trying to stop a rouge chipmunk in mid charge. Realistically, we are talking about a few minutes.

Strange but I have watched numerous PCP shooters pump up their rifles by hand (there is a very active Field Target discipline at my local range and I have compete there) and it takes more than "a few minutes". Most have gone to the expense and haul around scuba tanks because of the PITA the pumping is. Also when out squirrel shooting ( and yes we do hold of the commie hordes) they always have to get up and walk back the rig where the tank or the pump is to refill because the rifles do not really get that many full powered shots off before the refill is needed.

Now there are other advantages. I can use real scopes and am not limited to thoise designed for the reverse recoil of a springer.

Yes springers do require specially engineered scopes but most all scope makers (Leupold, Burris, Simmons, RWS, Bushnell, BSA, etc.) offer scopes for air rifles. No advantage there.

I can shoot 20 shots from prone without getting up to cock the rifle. Follow up shots for those tougher critters is a snap without any unneeded motion.

I can lay prone and shoot until the tin (500 pellets) is empty. That is the advantage of the side cocking air rifle. I shoot a lot of prone in the FT matches (really catches the **** sitting "regular" FT shooters off guard) and use a sling on the rifle. It is quite easy to reach up with the right hand, cock the rifle, load the pellet and resume a shooting position.

I've not had the need for a "quick follow up shot" since I don't hunt dangerous game with an air rifle. I also mostly use head shots which do not require a follow up shot anyway.

The only springer in this house is my sons red ryder:-D

Too bad he gets all the fun!:drinks:

I am not arguing against the use of PCP air rifles. I do find them kind of neat up to a point. I am only pointing out that they do have a down side just as the springers have a downside. If one wants to put up with the inconvenience of the PCP then more power to them. I know since you use the PCP that you don't consider them as inconvenient. Many of us do however. As always there are two sides. You present your reasons for your choice and I present mine. In the end each makes their own choice.

All Ic an say is good shooting to another air rifle shooter regardless of our difference of choice. I'd gladly go shootin' with ya any day:Fire:

Larry Gibson

[SharpsShooter]

Larry,

Oh, I agree, It is apples and oranges although I have never seen a spring gun do well in three position match. I have shot several break barrel types , but no side lever. The break barrels didn't shoot well enough to impress. I have a friend that is BIG into airguns and he turnerd me loose with his Benjamin Discovery and it was instant karma. If ya want to get reeeeaaallly serious about airguns, check out the Airforce Condor or the DragonSlayer.

Check out these videos......scroll down to thje bottom



http://www.bigboreairguns.com/bigborevideoproductions.htm

Any shootin is good shootin:-D

SS

[Leadforbrains]

Im sold on the PCP airgun. I need to get me one of those.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Hullo Carpetman, yes we know the difference in swallows and sparrows up here, yes they eat lots of bugs, and I shoot a lot of mud dobber nests (wasps) around my barn/workshop, tends to ruin their day.
Never have liked the stings. The little birdies do a lot of good work , just not enough.

I still think a new springer is in my future, altho the new Benji is interesting.

[missionary5155]

Get a Sheridan .... I have had a sheridan Blue Streak for 30 years+... pump it to whatever FPS you want. I have a williams Reciever sight on it and it is as accurate as I can shoot to 50 yards. If I can see it.... it is going to smack the ground. I do not know the FPS with 10 pumps but it will complete penetrate pigeons and crows at 50 yards.
God Bless you

[carpetman]

Slow Elk---Never even thought about mud daubers---I dont recall seeing them in Alaska but I did see the mud swallow houses at places on the Alcan highway. Heck yes those mud daubers would be real good targets shoot them or their nests.

[corvette8n]

I have a GAMO shadow, put a Charlie Tuna gold trigger in it and wow am I happy.
Just ask the 18 squirrels and 6 chipmonks how well it shoots, on second thought they can't talk right now. lol[smilie=1:

[hiram]

I have a sheridan blue streak. Older model, very accurate. The regular pellets are 500 per box, so although mine in 20 cal., a box of pellets lasts a whele. Other companies are making 20 cal pellets. I bought JSB predator pellets with a plastic point for hunting. I bought the receiver sight and did my own drilling and tapping. It's great. The sheridan is not that good for a scope because the scope goes right where you have to hold the gun to pump it. Look at Pyramid Air.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

I have a sheridan and an R-1. The sheridan is my barn rifle and with the score this year at 14-0 my lead against the coon, possum and skunk team using the sheridan. I use iron sights as in the barn I shoot no more than 30 feet. The R-1 was upgraded by me about 14 years ago from .177 to .22 and I put a lazer spring and seal in it. I get 840fps with it using a 14.3 grain pellet and it wears a 4x scope. Groups with the R-1, using round nose or pointed pellets run 1/2" at 50 yards. I aquired the R-1 around 1982 or '83.

If you want to put a scope on a sheridan, mount it forward of the area that you put your hand to pump it up and use a pistol scope for it's extended eye relief. I used said setup for years on my sheridan and it works great. I only took it off because of shots being so close in the barn. The short length of the sheridan is also great in tight spots.

[Larry Gibson]

SharpsShooter

Oh, I agree, It is apples and oranges although I have never seen a spring gun do well in three position match.

Well they were shooting 3 position air rifle matches long before the advent of CO2 and PCP air rifles! The Fienwerkebau (SP?) 300 was a real fvorite. It was a side cock recoiless air rifle. Before that they did indeed use break barrels also and underlever cockers. The PCPs do make it easier on the firing line which is why they took over. I doubt they are more accurate at 10 meters than the FWB300.

I have shot several break barrel types , but no side lever. The break barrels didn't shoot well enough to impress. I have a friend that is BIG into airguns and he turnerd me loose with his Benjamin Discovery and it was instant karma. If ya want to get reeeeaaallly serious about airguns, check out the Airforce Condor or the DragonSlayer.

Cool videos but my thoughts are if I want more power or range than the M54 .22 cal gives I go to a firearm. As to the accuracy of break barrels. A good one like the R9 will give pretty consistant 1" groups at 30 yards. Most people use air rifles for back yard practice and pest removal. I have a large back yard and have to work at getting a shot over 20 yards. Frankly the M54 is too powerful for "backyard" use which is why I have the .20 cal R9. I've also eliminated pests up through ferral cats and small racoons in size with the RWS M54 and the R9. With the advent of hunting here in the states the techno race caught up with air rifles also. Some want more range and more power to hunt larger anmals. Most of us just use a firearm for those. I've stood off to the side while and compared the noise of a .22 PSP and a .22LR rifle using match ammo. The .22LR was quieter, more powerful/deadlier and more accurate to a longer distance shooting the ground squirrels.

Not to say that the larger air rifles are bad but they are going to lead to tighter restrictions on all air rifles. I predict we will see air rifles lumped in with firearms as far as restrictions go in the near future. People will quickly understand that a large chunk of lead at a certain velocity can be dangerous regardless of whether it reached that velocity from powder combustion or air compression. As long as some continue to turn air rifles, who most still percieve as toys and kids guns, into big game guns it is, in the long run, going to have a detrimental effect on all air rifles.

This is just my opinion and I'm not looking for any arguments. My own position is if someone wants a .600 nitro air rifle then good for them. However, political reality is going to rear it's ugly head against all air guns because a few want to turn them into "real" guns. That is what is a shame.

Larry Gibson

[SharpsShooter]

Larry

Your crystal ball might be correct. However, turning your nose up to a type of shooting or hunting, in this instance with big bore air guns, is exactly the division in the ranks of shooters that the anti-gunners will capitalize on to destroy all gun rights. I fully support all types of shooting even though 98% of my own is BPCR

The air gun has evolved much like the bow. Each step up has increased both the power and range of both items. Bows have been used to take about every form of game on the planet. Air guns have been used successfully to take Africa plains game and the American Bison as well. If we applied your logic, the compound bow is so much more advanced than the longbow that it invites controlling legislation.

Sure it is possible…if we stand idly by and watch.


First you endorse spring air guns and that’s fine. To each his own. Then when a very advanced type is displayed, you tag it a bad thing because it “might” be legislated against and Red Ryder be included. You say that it would be a shame and it would if allowed to transpire. The same could be said of every piece of anti-gun legislation.

We cannot live in fear of legislators…they should live in fear of us.


My apologies to mtnman31 for the off topic hijack.:drinks:
SS

[Dan Cash]

I have several quality air rifles from my son's estate that I would consider selling. Send me a PM with your email and I will send some PIX.

I don't have a lot of advice regarding these things but the little I have shot them I will say they are quite powerful and astoundingly accurate.
Dan Cash

[Larry Gibson]

Whoa there SharpsShooter! I am not turning my nose up to anything here. I am not saying any of these types of air rifles are wrong or tagging them as anything. I dare say my M54 is a little more “advanced” than a Red Ryder. I am only stating an opinion that these larger and/or more powerful air rifles will lead to the same types of restrictions on them that we have on firearms. If I had my way there would be little restriction on either. In reality I probably support the same 98% of all shooting that you do. I happen to own and shoot a compound bow BTW along with an original Mongolian war bow.

I was recommending spring air guns and gave my reasons for it. I also stated I’ve no problem with PCP or pump up air guns but find the springers to be much more convenient. There is no reason for you to take anything I’ve said as a personal attack on you PCP air rifle. However your "We cannot live in fear of legislators…they should live in fear of us" is rather naive. It is a quippy little saying but hardly a reality. The reality is when the larger bore and more powerful air rifles are perceived as dangerous by the liberal gun grabbers they will quickly classify them as “firearms”. Then all air rifles will fall under simple “unlawful to discharge firearm in such or such limits” type laws and regulations. Most air rifles are recreation in nature and used in homes or backyards for practice. This recreational use will also be prohibited as it already has in many countries and locations here already. That is the unfortunate part, not the “advanced type” developement of air rifles as you mention. I support that development and the uses those who wish to use them for. It is the adverse results that I am against which those developments and uses will lead to that I am simply pointing out.

Larry Gibson

[carpetman]

I shot a few sparrows and starlings today. Used both my Sheridan with peep sight and the RWS 48. I sure like double thumpping the starlings. You get a thump from the pellet hitting them and another thump when they fall straight to the ground unable to break their fall.

[SharpsShooter]

Larry

I did not take it “personal” at all. However, what you deem naive and quippy is neither. It is the reality that most refuse to acknowledge and that in itself has contributed greatly to the diminished personal freedoms of the folks of this counrtry. We are reaching a point where loss of freedom is just a compromise away. That said, don’t wait to see “liberal gun grabbers” coming, be defensively proactive across all fronts of firearm ownership. Don’t accept the perceived preconditioned notion that the potential legislation must be tolerated. History has shown us clearly just what such tolerance will allow to come to pass.


SS


C-Man, double thumpers are always fun

[Larry Gibson]

SharpShooter

I guess we shall see what transpires. I do agree with with you that the refusal of most to stand for what is right is what has led to our demise. At one time years ago I stood for what was right with unwavering integrity and honesty. I quickly found out that few have the gumption for that. I paid dearly for that but i can look at myself in the mirror with no regrets. We are more on the same page than you think.

BTW; what pellets are you using in your PCP for hunting?

Larry Gibson

[SharpsShooter]

SharpShooter

I guess we shall see what transpires. I do agree with with you that the refusal of most to stand for what is right is what has led to our demise. At one time years ago I stood for what was right with unwavering integrity and honesty. I quickly found out that few have the gumption for that. I paid dearly for that but i can look at myself in the mirror with no regrets. We are more on the same page than you think.

BTW; what pellets are you using in your PCP for hunting?

Larry Gibson

Standing up for what is right is a lot harder than standing by. Being able to look at yourself with no regrets is the right stuff.:smile:

Back on topic now, I use the Crosman Premier Heavy 10.5 grain. l shoot them at about 910fps and see .5" inch groups (5 shots) At 50yds. My backyard is huge and I can set up and shoot out to 70yds easily.


SS

[enfield]

:Fire: hey, nobody suggested a prefered caliber in the Benjamin Sheridan blue streak . .177 or .22 . and in general is a .22 better for pests than a .177 . weight over speed ? I haven't done much air rifle "hunting" except for some pigeons years ago with my Diana model 35 in .177:twisted: by the way, how do you guys prepare all those squirrels for eatin ? do you field dress them ? grind them into burger or just eat them whole :kidding:

[Blackwater]

I'm late coming to this thread, but I just got myself and my grandson a Beeman pellet gun from Wal Mart. Can't remember the model # but it was $124 and tax, comes with both 177 and 22 barrels, and a 4x scope with mounts. I was really impressed with it, and he and I hunted squirrels with them. He hasn't gotten one yet, but I'm sure he creased the cheek of one that tried to sneak up on us on the ground. That thing ran off faster than I'd ever seen a squirrel run before, and I don't think he stopped until he got to a friend's house a mile away in that direction.

The 4x is plenty powerful enough at normal pellet gun ranges, and its large field of view helps my grandson find the target quick. At a listed 10 lbs., it's kinda' heavy for a 9 year old, but he's found he can rest it on his knee and do some surprisingly good shooting.

This gun shot about 5/8-3/4" groups at 5-30 yds.

IMO, this is a "best buy," despite the fact that I'm no big fan of Wal Mart.

[TCLouis]

I think any airgun that exceeds 1,000 fps is going to make enough noise to at least get the neighbors attention.

My Chinwerkbow 177 is about 905 fps and makes more noise than std velocity 22 ammo out of my Mossberg 44.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

and for what it's worth, when I rebarreled the old R-1 from .177 to .22...OMG what a difference. My longest witnessed shot with the R-1 in .177 with a pointed pellet was on a ground squirrel at a paced off 75 yds.

The .22 shoots 160 fps slower but just about twice the projectile weight. Beeman sold me the replacement barrel, a Theoben (sp) though now they say they never sold Theoben barrels for their R-1 (I was going to get one in 5mm). Someone must have made a mistake. The barrel performs magnificently.

Up to thirty yards I use wadcutters and from 30 to 50 I use round noses, hollow points or pointed. For a 25year old airgun, with 50,000 to 60,000 rounds through it...it has done well.

[carpetman]

enfield---you must have me on ignore. The silver or Blue Streaks only come in .20 cal--5mm which is my favorite---to me best of both between the .177 and .22.

[bgokk]

I have a Crossman break bbl with a kit scope and it is not very acc. It is louder than my Rem. nylon 10 with CCI CB Longs. The .22 is much more acc. and has more energy than the .177 pellets.

BTW it's less hassel than any type air gun

[Larry Gibson]

........Back on topic now, I use the Crosman Premier Heavy 10.5 grain. l shoot them at about 910fps and see .5" inch groups (5 shots) At 50yds. My backyard is huge and I can set up and shoot out to 70yds easily. SS


Now see that, we are on the same page! The Crosman Premiers are my favorite pellets in all 3 of mine. With the R9 .20 cal they are very accurate and deadly to 45 yards or so. It wears a Simmons 4X, which as Blackwater says, is plenty enough for normal pellet rifle ranges.

With the M54 .22 cal (800 fps with 14.3 gr CPs) I shoot to 90 yards. The M54 has a Leupold 6.5x20 EFR on it. With weighed pellets it will shoot right at 1" at that range if the wind is not blowing. Past 90 yards the pellets lose stability and go wherever. Some years back I picked up 5 tins of the old Vortex Lampreys which have a gaping HP and look somewhat like a Crow Magnum loaded backwards. These are very deadly on rabbits out to 40 yards (accuracy goes south past that) and are the only pellet I will regularly use for a heart/lung shot on jack rabbits or animals of comparable size. I have just under 2 tins left and only use them for "special" targets. Enough of my ramblings...off topic anyways.

Larry Gibson

[SharpsShooter]

I think any airgun that exceeds 1,000 fps is going to make enough noise to at least get the neighbors attention.

My Chinwerkbow 177 is about 905 fps and makes more noise than std velocity 22 ammo out of my Mossberg 44.

They can be loud enough to be objectionable in urban areas. Solving the noise factor is not a big proplem. The simplest solution is a shroud or jacket that encloses the barrel and contains the violent release of compressed air from the muzzle. It lets the pellet escape but forces the air to use up much of its energy before it leaves the shroud, thus reducing the report. In effect, it acts like the simplest form of silencer, and the only difference is that the shroud covers the entire barrel, while the silencer is just a component added to the barrel.


SS

[rhead]

If the sound level is a problem the Gamo Whisper may be one answer. Mine will stay under .5 in at 100 feet. I haven't had a chance to try it out at longer distances because of the gusty wind this time of year.

[bearcove]

I've had a Daisy 1170 for a while maybe 10 years. It will outshoot any of you! Put it on a rest and it shoots one after another through the same hole. When I was a kid the crossman pump gun claimed 100's of birds way up in the trees of Ohio and Missouri. The idea of putting a scope on one is crazy they loose velocity to fast, 25 yards is long range. If you want to tune up your skills, shooting a scoped gun at 25 yards won't do diddley. That's like putting a scope on a pistol whats the point trying to turn it into a 270.

[buck1]

You can spend a small fourtune on a airgun, I know I got bit by that bug and have several full blown custom air guns. Heres a link to a .25 cal I made up, page down to Bucks hand cannon.

up....http://www.airgunartisans.com/BestofBest15.htm

That said,, If you just need to dispatch some pests I HIGHLY recomend the crosman 2250 or 2240. They are co2 but one cart will shoot about 25 shots well and a punchered cart will hold a long time. They are cheep and can shoot verrrrrrry well .

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/crosman-2250b-air-rifle-skeleton-stock.shtml

Cheers Buck

[clodhopper]

As an air gun fan of long standing I really like the sheridan 20 cal pellets. They have good mass, a rn semi-wadcutter profile, and make clean kills.
With that said my current favorite rifle is .17 Anschutz mod 450. Recoil less twin piston, side cocking, springer, excellent trigger. Mil dot scope gives me quick refrence points for wind and range correction.
I use wadcutters for ground squirrels.
A ranch manager nearby is glad to have me come out and slink through the sheep pens. The ranges are short and wadcutters encourage good blood flow.
My rifle is slow and many head shots will not penetrete the skull. my favorite aming points are just under the chin when varmit faces me, and the rib cage or brisket if presented.
Vigorus winds blow reguarly there, and with my constant moving and diffrent angles, Often I can shoot at a target near the squirrel to gage correction needed. Target sometimes runs over to pellet impact to see what happened.

[bobk]

clodhopper,
About a million years ago i tried the pointed pellets, and found them to be superior. Penetration beats blunt trauma any day, if your velocity is limited.

Bob K