1886 Miroku Winchester Hammer, Trigger, & Safety Mods (NEW)

[TMC4232]

Hey guys, this is my first post on this forum and I would like to share an exciting modification that I came up with for my Miroku 1886 Winchester Take Down 45-70 that goes beyond the rebounding hammer fix. I don't think anyone has done this so far.

I never did get used to the "rebounding hammer" thing on my Winchester and never understood why the same Browning model did not have it. I guess somewhere along the way, lawyers must have been involved. In searching the internet about this oddity I ran across the excellent articles with photos from "Steveb" at http://reloadingandlevergunning.blogspot.com/2007/02/winchestermiroku-86-mods.html and SAA Jim at http://web.tampabay.rr.com/jimstags/win1892/index.htm.

As they suggested, I first removed the long arm of the hammer strut that was causing the rebounding action and was happy to see that the rebound was truly gone, but also discovered that the hammer could still be made to operate from this "half cock" position with a firm pull of the trigger. Not good. After more research I received an email from a gentleman, Mike D in northern California, who told me that I could replace the politically correct Winchester hammer and it's two piece trigger / sear with the correct Browning hammer and one piece Browning trigger / sear. I could not call Midwest Gun Works quick enough. The two parts were about $115 if I remember correctly.

The parts arrived and I happily commenced removing the Winchester parts and installed the Browning parts, only to discover that the Winchester tang Safety bar was now preventing the Browning hammer to fully cock. Soooooooo, instead of considering to remove the Safety or to have it welded up and re-stamped with the correct period wording, especially in this economy :shock:, I spent about an hour thinking how I could salvage the Safety since it was already there. I removed the Safety bar and realized that the Safety could still work if part of the Safety bar were removed to allow the hammer to pass in it's arc to full cock. So, I placed the Safety bar in my bench vise, and filed it in such a way (at an angle) that when installed and in the "Fire" position the Safety bar does not obstruct the movement of the hammer at all, and when in the "Safe" position, the Safety bar moves over in the path of the hammer and PREVENTS the hammer from moving any further back than the half cock position. Therefore, when the hammer is resting on the inertia firing pin OR when the hammer is in the half cock position, the Safety can be easily engaged. When it is engaged, the hammer will not move back nor can the loading lever be actuated. The gun is essentially LOCKED and SAFE. When the Safety is moved to the "Fire" position, the hammer glides all the way back into full cock without obstruction.

The whole job took a couple of hours only because I would file, test fit, file, test fit, etc., plus I like to take my time on my gunsmithing. Once finished I used G96 Cold Blue on the Safety bar so it would blend in with the rest of the parts, then applied some GI surplus M1 Garand grease to all moving parts.

My 1886 Winchester now has a true half cock and a Safety which is the best of both worlds. I thought about welding up the tang and having it re-stamped with the "Model 1886", but afterall it is what it is, my design works, and I can put that kind of money towards another rifle, maybe even an original 1886 someday.

A final note, I also stripped all of the polyurathane off of the stock and refinished it with Watco Natural Danish Oil which really brought the wood to life and gave it more of an original look. I also added an excellent Smith Enterprises 1886 marked Ladder sight graduated to 1,000 yards. The Smith sight is milled from bar stock steel and is absolutely beautiful. My 1886 Winchester now functions and looks like it is supposed to and I LOVE IT :-D .

If anyone needs any help on this or if I can answer questions, let me know.

Here are the "After" photos:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/snayper/DSC_0014-1web.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/snayper/DSC_0023-1web.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/snayper/DSC_0020-1web.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/snayper/DSC_0036-1web.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/snayper/DSC_0041-1web.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/snayper/DSC_0042-1web.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/snayper/DSC_0047-1web.jpg

[The Nyack Kid]

For a first post , it is a great one !

Good Idea , there .

[tgs989]

Hello, good write-up! Is the front sight tall enough for the ladder sight to work at 100 or 200 yards? Were did you buy the ladder sight? Were did you buy the Oil? I have the same exact rifle but I have yet to shoot it. Any suggestions on breaking in the barrel? I plan on doing the same thing to my rifle as you did! Thanks for the input.-Tim

[MtGun44]

Sounds great, and I have been a BIG fan of Watco Danish Oil for finishing walnut for
30 years or more. I will have to consider carefully if I want to do the whole changeover
due to the cost issue. The fact that this beautiful rifle is such a PITA due to the
dumb butt lawyer mods to the firing system really burns my tail.

Bill

[TMC4232]

Tim and Bill,

Thanks for the compliments. I failed to mention in my write up that at the same time I added the Smith Enterprises 1886 Winchester rear ladder I also replaced the front sight with an 1886 Winchester blade with set screw, also manufactured by Smith Enterprises ( http://www.smithenterprise.com/ ).

The rear ladder is machined from bar stock steel and the front sight is also machined and both are exact copies of the original. I will try to post a picture of it as soon as I can. The Smith Ent. sights are more expensive ($150 for the rear and $45 for the front), but you will not find anything better period. There are several cheaper cast ladder sights on the internet, some from the Ukraine, but you get what you pay for. Ron does not make anything less than perfect and you will be very pleased with his products. I am not sure how many of these that he has left.

The Watco Natural Danish Oil I used is available at Home Depot. I think it comes in dark and medium walnut but I used the natural (clear) because the walnut stock was already beautiful as is.

[TMC4232]

One of the members has asked me in a private email if the modification I made is Safe, based on the fact that when a live round is in the chamber and the hammer is in the full cock position and the trigger pulled, the Safety no longer blocks the hammer from striking the firing pin like it did BEFORE the modification with the rebounding hammer.

I appreciate this very good and legitimate question, and for the benefit of those that may want to know, here is my response:

With the safety OFF the rifle can be fired at any time with a live round in the chamber by cocking the hammer back and pulling the trigger which is no different to how the original lever actions were made to function without safeties. Somewhat of a “safe” position back then, even with my current modification (with the Browning hammer, trigger, and sear), was to carry one in the chamber but with the hammer at half cock. Even smart cowboys back then relied on half cock or left the hammer down on an empty revolver chamber since their hammers had firing pins on them, unlike the spring loaded Miroku Winchester firing pin which requires inertia and then retracts. I just finished reading a book about Wyatt Earp and there was the true story in Dodge City while acting as the city marshal where he dropped his Colt revolver and it discharged, the bullet missing him. After that he carried 5 rounds in the revolver with the hammer down on the empty cylinder.

The safety mod I did was only done to (1) remove the rebounding feature, (2) achieve a true half cock position which is “safe” as on original 1886 Winchesters and recent production 1886 Brownings, (3) to use a more solid two piece Browning trigger and sear system, and (4) to use a Browning hammer which does not have one side of it milled out for the rebounding / safety mechanism like the Winchester does which, in my opinion, distracts from the original design, appearance, and function of an 1886 Winchester or Browning. I assume you are aware that your firing pin is spring loaded and is only driven forward by extreme inertia from the fully cocked hammer position, and once a round is fired the firing pin actually retracts backwards off of the primer back into the bolt even while the hammer is still down on the firing pin base.

After my mods the following was achieved:

With the safety ON and in the half cocked or hammer down position you can carry a live round in the chamber such as in a hunting mode, and then quietly disengage the safety OFF, pull the hammer back and fire. This in my opinion is safer than the original Winchester because it locks the hammer and lever from any movement until absolutely ready for use.

Secondly, with the safety ON and with a live round in the chamber and with the hammer resting on the firing pin base ring AND on the back side of the bolt at the same time, the hammer can not be pulled back and released to detonate a primer. Since the hammer is literally and solidly resting on the back side of the bolt, and can not move forward at all, it would take a force of such destructive energy on the hammer to in turn cause enough inertia to drive the pin forward with enough speed to actually detonate a primer. Such a force would destroy the hammer and receiver. In my opinion, with the hammer in this position, I would consider it SAFE. This was not the same situation with some original rifles or pistols with firing pins on hammers if carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer down because, again, firing pins rested on the primers unlike reverse pressure spring loaded firing pins which do not rest on primers. Those guns were very UNSAFE with a hammer down on a loaded chamber. My modifications are extremely safe in my opinion by virtue of no hammer travel which means no inertia to cause the firing pin to detonate a primer.

So, the bottom line is this. I modified my 1886 Miroku Winchester to my liking and made it function and look more “original” except for retaining and making better use of the obvious tang safety. My 1886 Miroku Winchester in my opinion is safer than an original because the new true half cock that it has is also LOCKED along with the lever when the safety is ON. It is LOCKED and prevented from moving forward or backwards in the half cocked AND hammer down position, nor can the lever move. If I were to carry a live round in it, I would feel completely confident with one in the chamber with safety ON in hammer down or half cocked positions. I would NEVER carry a live round in an original lever action Winchester or Marlin or whatever with the hammer down on a live round.

In closing, the modification I made to my 1886 Miroku Winchester was at my own risk to be used and enjoyed by me and I can not be responsible for such modifications made by others to similar or like rifles. If you are a competent gunsmith, or know what you are doing, then you have the ability to make your own decisions. If you have any doubts about this modification do not attempt it but instead seek a competent gunsmith.

I am completely 100% satisfied with the results and function of my own modifications and consider it an improvement.

[Vaughn]

I would like to add that I have replaced the Winchester Trigger with the Browning trigger. I can say the Browning trigger is exactly the same as the 1892 Winchester Trigger except the browning part has a larger pin size. The Browning Trigger will not work with the Winchester Hammer as the sear is in a different position on the Winchester hammer to suit the two piece Winchester Trigger. The rearward travel of the bolt will not cock the Winchester hammer with the Browning trigger installed. It is possible to cock and fire the rifle manually.
I had previously ground the Winchester hammer and sear to eliminate creep and I had reduced trigger let off from a very creepy 7 pound to a no creep 4 pound pull.
By installing the Browning trigger the trigger pull was noticeably lighter that the 4 pound more or less like my 92 trigger which is unaltered and very pleasant to shoot. I have the Browning hammer on order.
Other modification to the rifle include a replacement stock fitted with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad. I never fired the rifle with the original stock and I can say the rifle is pleasant to shoot with trapdoor like loads.I have a throating reamer on order to relieve the tight throat so the rifle will accept all brands of projectiles. At present it will not chamber rounds loaded with 405 gr Speer and even hesitates to chamber some loaded rounds using bullets cast in my RCBS 405 grain bullet mould. When the hammer has arrived and has been fitted I will advise further, I expect that I will need to make a new mainspring strut.
Cheers Vaughn
Please visit my Yahoo Groups 1886 Winchester site

[Vaughn]

Hi for all those interested The Yahoo Group site can be accessed by clicking on the link
https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/1886Winchester/info
Cheers Vaughn Gunthorpe

[Dryball]

Excellent job! Certainly lots cheaper than sending mine in to Turnbull

[NSB]

Excellent job! Certainly lots cheaper than sending mine in to Turnbull
Sort of comparing apples to oranges. For seven-hundred bucks Turnbull did mine and filled in the safety hole. They also CCH'd the gun and ran a reamer through it to open the throat up to accept longer, heavier bullets. Yeah, Turnbull costs more but you get more too.

[.45colt]

Excellent Post, How many times over the years I have read where shooters having bought the "lawyered up" USRAC/Winnie/ made in japan rifles only to have them "go Click" while trying to shoot them , due to light hammer strikes from the stupid rebounder. Great Job. Enjoy Your Rifle.

[mack1]

Some where in the arcives there is a thread on this. I made the same mod except I replaced the hammer spring and pins and had to make a longer block an the Browning was a straight grip. This was several years back and my rifle has only went bang when I pulled the trigger wihbthe hammer on full cock as all non safety equipped levers I have carried in the last 25 years so I think yours will be fine also. Oh on mine i only made a plate for the bottom of the safty button removed all the parts and fassened it permanently off safe. I wish I could remember who turned me on to midwest gun works