Short range scopes ?

[Jack Stanley]

I'm thinking about a scope for a marlin .357 carbine and I see an ad for "refubished" Nikon shotgun scopes . These scopes have the parallax set at seventy-five yards which is more in line for the carbines intended use .

Question is , Do you think "refurbished" means it'll work for real this time and since I'm used to Leupold can I expect this scope to function correctly ? It's on sale for half of retail so if it'll work I'm thinking I'd be OK for the carbine .

What do ya think ? , thanks , Jack

[Heavy lead]

I've got 4 Nikons, like all of them, and I'm a Leupold fan. FWIW I have a couple Leupold "shotgun" VXI scopes (2x7) one on a shotgun and one on a 338, the 75 yard parallax adjustment still allows me good groups at 200 yards, the Leupold rep said I should have no problems out to 300 either.

[44mag1]

I have a burris 2-7 short mag scope and love it. it has the ballisi plex in it and It makes long range plinking alot easier. had a bad experience with nikon and there warranty so no more nikon, burris and leupold and even simmons warrantys are the best IMHO

[HangFireW8]

I'm thinking about a scope for a marlin .357 carbine and I see an ad for "refubished" Nikon shotgun scopes . These scopes have the parallax set at seventy-five yards which is more in line for the carbines intended use .

Question is , Do you think "refurbished" means it'll work for real this time and since I'm used to Leupold can I expect this scope to function correctly ? It's on sale for half of retail so if it'll work I'm thinking I'd be OK for the carbine .


Sounds like a great match to me.

Keep in mind, most scopes are returned because the mounts/rings were crooked, and the owner was unable to crank the adjustment over enough to get it on target.

Most of the rest are returned because the elevation or windage is cranked 95% over to get it on paper, at which point there is no more adjustment left in the other range because the erector is almost hard up against the scope body.

Occasionally they get returned because they fog up, this is an assembly error (kinked seal) and easy to fix.

-HF

[carpetman]

Jack Stanley--You ask if it will compare with the Leupolds you now use? I had problem with a non Leupold and paid the postage to send it in plus the $15 charge ---no charge on Leupolds. I was out the cost of going to the range to try it out--and it wasn't fixed. Same expenses again. Sent back again. The Leupold in the model I wanted was $307. EBAY that $307 scope ALWAYS brought minimum of $275. That's $32 difference. I know you don't buy scopes to resell them, but the truth is there really was only $32 possible savings going with the lesser scope---that $32 plus more was gone first time it gave problem. Even a broken Leupold has value because of their warranty--many scope that are broken, trash them is really about your only option. Where's the savings? BTW I had a Savage over under-20 guage one barrel and .222 the other and had a 1x-4x Leupold on it. Probably would have been ok on shotgun but the rifle and shotgun didnt impact same place.

[docone31]

Don't know much about that scope, I like the Barska line. However, most refurbisheds I got were top line stuff. Mostly returns, some never got used.
Should be good.

[Jack Stanley]

Thanks fellas , I don't intend to use this carbine past a hundred yards and fifty might be more like it most of the time . I've had my own problems with warranty work and got disgusted with the process so I've bought expensive stuff just to get something that works as advertised . Something like this would be my first venture into the lower priced stuff in over twenty years . Having the reticle move when ya tell it to and where ya tell it is really a plus when sighting in .

I have a Bushnell Banner on the gun now that needs parallax adjustment but I'm thinking that could get into the cost of a "new" scope .

Jack

[bcp477]

Just to clarify something..... The usable range of a scope has nothing whatever to do with the parallax setting - with certain qualifications. As long as the shooter's view through the scope is consistent from shot to shot, parallax setting doesn't matter. So, a so-called "short range" scope, such as a handgun scope (with parallax set to 50 yards, for example) can certainly be used perfectly well at 350 yards. The rub is that the viewing position needs to be consistent, so that parallax will not come into play. But, this is more a function of the fit of the stock and position of the scope (how high it is mounted), than the scope itself. Further, the total amount of parallax error possible is proportional to the magnification of the scope. A 4x scope will have less possible error than a 6x one, given that both have the same parallax setting. Many people make too much of the parallax setting distance, believing that the possible error is so large that it would be possible to miss a game animal, or target, if parallax should come into play. Not true at all. The maximum possible parallax error for a scope set to say, 50 yards......when used at say, 150 yards, is still less than 1 inch.

I should add that I can personally vouch for the truth of the information above. I actually prefer long eye-relief scopes on my rifles. I have used various ones over the years, mostly in the range of 2x to 4x magnification (I also prefer low magnification and fixed power scopes). I have used mostly handgun scopes for this, with parallax usually set at 50 yards. Nevertheless, I have never had any difficulties with accurate shooting at much longer distances....to more than 250 yards, in any case. Again, the important factor is a consistent view through the scope.... so I am particular about stock fit and cheek weld.

[Junior1942]

Why aren't you using peep sights?

[Willbird]

BTW I had a Savage over under-20 guage one barrel and .222 the other and had a 1x-4x Leupold on it. Probably would have been ok on shotgun but the rifle and shotgun didnt impact same place.

If you ever wake up and go "hmmm....I want some pain today" load that model 24 up with some 3" 20 gauge SLUGS. Mine is absolutely the most painful thing I have ever shot with slugs. And I have shot 50 a bmg robar rifle that did not have a muzzle brake, and I own a 375 H&H and have shot a 458 or two. I think it is because the muzzle centerline is right on the comb of the stock.

Bill

[Jack Stanley]

Why aren't you using peep sights?

The short answer is , I had another 94c that I had setup with so custom sight that wasn't when I bought it and is now and I didn't care for it . I do use a peep on several other rifles to good effect but they seem to just "run out" at dusk or dawn . After having used scopes quite a bit for hunting more than just blasting , I've come to appreciate them a bit . My .22 bolt has a Leupold "rimfire" series four power , the 870 has a leftover Leupold 2.5x8 that usually stays set at five power .

The peep that was on the other carbine could cut ragged "small" holes using the LBT one eighty-five grain bullet and a .357 case . I did have to have good light to make that happen though This one , since it came with a scope and mounts I've used it and am starting to like it a bit . I know part of my problem is cheek weld , the other things are the Bushnell scope , the load , the carbine and the shooter .

I think the scope is probably OK but I believe the reticle is moving as I move my eye , at least that's what it seems like . When I get a minute , I could set up solid and try to look at a target about a hundred and fifty yards out and see if the same thing happens . It's a variable power and I've been using it mostly at three to four power but have tried it at two and still kinda like it .

I can still tune the load and the carbine but sometimes I think the shooter is a lost cause . I'd just like to think that I could shoot a small ragged hole with a scope as easy as peep sights and do it even with failing light .

Jack

[Lloyd Smale]

two scopes i like for lever guns are the 1x4 leupolds and the 1x3 weavers. Both seem to be rugged and have decent optics the weaver is a hell of a bang for the buck.

[joeb33050]

7.3 PARALLAX ELIMINATION IN NON-PARALLAX ADJUSTABLE SCOPES

I thought I knew what parallax was until I looked up the definition and became thoroughly confused and intimidated. I do know how to tell if there is parallax.
With a telescopic gun sight, there is parallax if, moving your head left-right or up-down moves the scope reticle, crosshairs or dot or? on the target.
The gun must be held in a solid rest. Get the sight aligned with a paper target at the range you're going to be shooting at. Move your head left and right or up and down. If the scope reticle appears to move on the target, there's parallax.
Parallax has to do with range. A scope with no parallax at a certain range WILL have parallax at other ranges.
Higher power-higher cost telescopic sights have adjustments to eliminate parallax at different ranges. Most frequently this is done by adjusting the front or objective lens Scopes with "AO" = adjustable objective are examples; other scopes have the parallax adjustment with a knob toward the rear of the scope.
I use inexpensive pistol scopes without parallax adjustment, and find that there's a lot of parallax with these scopes; so figuring out how to adjust these non-adjustable scopes was necessary. I believe that parallax affects accuracy, so am happier when it is gone.
I think that all scope sights have adjustments for parallax so that at the factory the adjustment can be made. The adjustments are just not readily made by the shooter. Investigation was required.

This is a Simmons ProHunter 4X32 pistol scope, an example of what I call a JAM NUT scope.






Here's the objective = front end of the scope. On the right end there are a couple of seams. The rightmost item is the jam nut; the next item is a ring with printing on it. The jam nut can be unscrewed from the scope tube.











Here's the scope with the jam nut off and the little printed ring loose. The rightmost threaded item is the lens holder. The lens holder screws into the scope tube. Note the slot in the lens holder, there are two of these slots, 180 degrees apart, put there for adjustment with the unobtainable spanner wrench
If the spanner wrench were available, the parallax could be adjusted by loosening the jam nut, turning the lens holder, holding the lens holder in position and tightening the jam nut.
Because I don't have the spanner, I loosen-don't remove the jam nut, adjust the lens holder, hold the lens holder in position with one of the slots and tighten the jam nut. The jam nut is just that; when the lens holder is set to eliminate parallax at the required range, screw the jam nut down the lens holder to the tube. Frequently the lens holder will turn with the jam nut, screwing up the adjustment. Hold a slot in the lens holder so that it doesn't rotate, then screw down the jam nut. I have had luck holding the lens holder slot with a piece of brass flat stock, and a whittled wooden thing.
Some of these lens holders are tight; I can adjust them with the back of a kitchen knife after removing the jam nut, substituting for the unobtainable spanner. Others are quite loose and can easily be turned with the fingers
Adjustment to eliminate parallax is easy. Set the gun/scope on a solid rest, aimed at a paper target at the appropriate range. Check for parallax. If necessary, loosen the jam nut, turn the lens holder, check, turn, check until the parallax is gone. Tighten the jam nut, and you're done.
With my scopes, Simmons 4X, 2-6X, NCSTAR 2X and 2-7X, UNSCREWING the lens holder eliminates parallax at shorter ranges. If I'm set at 100 yards and want to shoot at 50 yards without parallax, I must UNSCREW the lens holder.
Parallax changes with power, if I eliminate parallax at 50 yards at 2X, changing to 6X gives me some parallax.
A little practice and this adjustment is quite easy.
(My Weaver fixed power scopes do not have the unscrewable jam nut, I haven't figured out how to adjust them.)

joe b.

[Jack Stanley]

I was almost ready to order the Nikon the other day and I double checked the price . It was the about the same as a Leupold with comparable features so I think I'll back up and rethink this .

Hmmmm , I wonder if my Leupold rimfire score would take it ? 8-)

Jack

[Heavy lead]

two scopes i like for lever guns are the 1x4 leupolds and the 1x3 weavers. Both seem to be rugged and have decent optics the weaver is a hell of a bang for the buck.

I've got a one by three weaver on an encore ml, light great scope and very clear, this would be great on a carbine.

[bobthenailer]

i use a 2x7 leupold on my 357 mag marlin for accuracy testing and a aimpoint for normal shooting . both work well but i prefer the red dot for shooting

[bobk]

Joe B.,
I want to thank you for a very useful post. I've had a few scopes where the parallax was so bad they were almost unusable. One was my Redfield 3X9 that my dad purchased for me in 1962. I had it on a 788 6MM at one time, and would go to the range either before or after work, depending on what shift I was working. I had the worst time trying to figure out why my groups got bigger after I had worked the midnight. Finally figure out that my cheekweld was sloppy after I had been up all night, and the parallax was screwing me up. I sent it back to Redfield, but it came back not much better. I quit using it, mostly, kept it because it was from my Dad.

I also have a 6X Bushnell that was fairly horrible, never mounted it. Well, after reading your post, I dug both of them out of the boxes, and did the adjustment. I must say it is a bit tedious, but I got both of them down to 1/2" of wiggle at 100 yards, going edge to edge. That's close enough for me. Somewhere very close to 100 they are right on. You just saved two scopes for me, and I wanted to thank you.

This does bring up another question, though. Since this adjustment is not that difficult, you should be able to set up almost any scope as a shotgun/rimfire scope. Ever try this?

Bob K

[joeb33050]

Joe B.,
I want to thank you for a very useful post. I've had a few scopes where the parallax was so bad they were almost unusable. One was my Redfield 3X9 that my dad purchased for me in 1962. I had it on a 788 6MM at one time, and would go to the range either before or after work, depending on what shift I was working. I had the worst time trying to figure out why my groups got bigger after I had worked the midnight. Finally figure out that my cheekweld was sloppy after I had been up all night, and the parallax was screwing me up. I sent it back to Redfield, but it came back not much better. I quit using it, mostly, kept it because it was from my Dad.

I also have a 6X Bushnell that was fairly horrible, never mounted it. Well, after reading your post, I dug both of them out of the boxes, and did the adjustment. I must say it is a bit tedious, but I got both of them down to 1/2" of wiggle at 100 yards, going edge to edge. That's close enough for me. Somewhere very close to 100 they are right on. You just saved two scopes for me, and I wanted to thank you.

This does bring up another question, though. Since this adjustment is not that difficult, you should be able to set up almost any scope as a shotgun/rimfire scope. Ever try this?
I don't know what this question means. Does it mean no parallax at 50 yards, or some other range?
Bob K
I'm glad it worked for you. Good luck;
joe b.

[bobk]

joe b.,
These short range scopes are set to be parallax-free at some closer range, like 60 to 75 yards. Although they are listed by the manufacturers as separate models, I wonder if they are identical to other scopes in their line, but adjusted differently.

Bob K

[joeb33050]

joe b.,
These short range scopes are set to be parallax-free at some closer range, like 60 to 75 yards. Although they are listed by the manufacturers as separate models, I wonder if they are identical to other scopes in their line, but adjusted differently.

Bob K
I don't know about that, but what I think I know is that all scopes must be adjusted for parallax at the factory, and are adjustable by us if we can figure out how. Parallax is important to me in my group shooting.
joe b.

[bobk]

Maybe this is one of the reasons cheap scopes are cheap. I can't figure out how to calibrate parallax except by Mark 1 eyeball, and it can be labor intensive. I wonder if they just screw them in some distance, and call it good. So, the parallax is zeroed at some range, but we have no idea what the distance is, and it may vary from assembler to assembler, not to mention scopes built on Mondays or Fridays.

I am really thankful that you showed me how easy the fix is.

Bob K

[fourarmed]

JoeB's description of parallax adjustment is very helpful. However, I have looked through a lot of scopes that have several minutes of parallax at ANY distance. This is usually on cheap scopes, or scopes that have been subjected to abuse or a lot of heavy recoil. I think what happens is that the reticle or erector cell or some other lens element has come loose and moved slightly. When this happens, if it isn't a Leupold or Burris, it is probably toast.