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View Full Version : 45ACP, what one



Blammer
02-11-2009, 09:33 PM
Para Ordinance double stack mag, basically 13+

or Springfield XD 45, 13+

what are the pros and cons of your choice?

FN in MT
02-11-2009, 10:31 PM
I'm very impressed by the XD's. They are accurate, function flawlessly and are reasonably priced. SA is a great company and they are made in America. Mags are reasonably priced and seem to be readily available.

I may be wrong but aren't the PA's made in Canada??

WHENEVER I have a similar quandry... I will get some range time with both guns,then decide from there.

FN in MT

stumpjumper
02-11-2009, 10:34 PM
i have a service 45 acp xd and like it, but it is not made here it is made croatia.

Triggerhappy
02-12-2009, 02:39 AM
Blammer,

What is the intended purpose of the gun? CCW? Plinking? Duty?

I have several Para's including a "Carry 12" LDA. Para makes a couple different styles of .45, mainly single action (1911 clone) or the Light Double Action. Most of what I have are the single action sort and built into race guns in .38 Super etc, but I have a 5" .45 single action that's been extensively worked. All of them are great for their intended purpose. Para's are pretty good right out of the box and the 1911 single action style are infinitely customizable. The double action slightly less so.

The LDA came about a few years ago and filled a need for some people to have a "1911 style" gun that's a little safer. Para designed it so that rather than cocking the spring with your trigger finger while pulling the trigger (greatly adding to the trigger pull) it's cocked when you rack the slide. This allows a very light trigger compared to a lot of other double action guns.

The double action has a couple of advantages over the single. The trigger isn't nearly as sensitive, ie when the adrenaline is pumping it takes a little more conscious effort to pull the trigger. Better for some circumstances. The other benefit is you don't have to carry it with the hammer back. You actually pull the hammer back with the trigger. I've found the LDA to be a pleasure and very safe. I used to carry a Government 5" 1911 all the time, Condition 1, cocked & locked. I switched to the LDA about 4 years ago and really like it. Never had a problem with it and I'll bet it has nearly 10K rounds thru it. Yeah really, third set of springs. Mine is 3.5" I think, doublestack, holds 12 rounds in the mag and one in the chamber. Will accept the full size magazines, which I've used in IDPA & IPSC competitions with this gun.

Single action 1911's can have very nice triggers and are much simpler mechanically than the LDA. They also have the most aftermarket components available for them.

I've noticed two problems switching from the single action to the LDA. First, if I draw it very quickly sometimes the web of my hand doesn't fully press the grip safety. I have fairly meaty hands and with the shorter grip frame I had this problem. I solved the problem with a modified grip safety. The other problem was the trigger reset. I was so used to shooting the singles that have such a short reset I didn't always release the trigger enough for it to reset if I was double tapping. That took some retraining. That's why you must shoot your guns a lot to keep proficient. If I didn't use them in competition I wouldn't probably have found that problem. In a SHTF situation I will be double-tapping quickly and without the muscle memory of releasing the trigger I'd have a problem. I go out to the shop once a week and practice for a couple of mags worth. I double tap with this gun less than 2" apart at 10 yards. Accurate enough for a CCW.

The smaller grip frame on the Carry 12 allows me to carry it IWB concealed fairly easily even though it's a doublestack.

I have been intrigued with the XD for some time now. Kinda waiting for them to get some time on them to see how they hold up. After sooting several quite a bit I'm quite impressed. In fact I have another thread on this forum I started last night talking about it. I ordered my wife a 4" compact .45 tactical model last week and we'll be picking it up Friday. This will be her carry gun after it gets proven. I may also order a 4" full size grip frame for my own self. They are great guns and very reliable. Like the Para, it's a DA but I think the Para LDA has a better trigger. The aftermarket parts are still lacking, but they will become more plentiful as more are sold.

I don't think you could go wrong with either gun. I think you have to decide what the main, or most important purpose for the purchase it.

Hope this helps. TH

yondering
02-13-2009, 12:54 AM
Depends whether you want a serious gun for a really good shooter, or something plastic and "popular".
The XD's aren't bad, but having owned both, there's no doubt in my mind that the 1911 design is much superior for accuracy and shootability. I don't like PO's LDA triggers, but the true single action 1911 they make are good.

The XD's are not made in USA, in fact, they aren't even made by Springfield. They used to be called the HS 2000, but Springfield either bought the company (in Croatia) or bought the rights to put their name on it.

Try to shoot both if you can. There is definitely a difference in how they feel when shooting them.

Triggerhappy
02-13-2009, 03:57 AM
I agree with Yondering. Go find what fits your hand and suits you. I did that for my wife before she decided what she liked. The XD fit her hands the best. We stopped by an indoor range that rents pistols, spent a couple of hours trying different thing. One good thing about the XD, I won't feel bad if it gets scraped up in the field. I would be quite annoyed if I marked up any of my 1911's.

Slogg76
02-13-2009, 09:03 AM
I'll cast a vote for the XD-45. However, I would try out both if you can and get which ever one fits you the best. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

kooz
02-13-2009, 11:01 AM
post deleted

Geraldo
02-13-2009, 11:27 AM
How about "none of the above"?

Feedback from week long shooting schools is that the XDs do not hold up. I have also heard that getting parts is an issue. Similarly, double stack 1911s don't tend to run well, hence the decision of FBI-HRT to get rid of theirs in favor of single stack SAs.

If you want plastic, the HK .45s run like a sewing machine, but they're big and expensive. The alternatives are S&W M&P or Glock 21s. If you want steel, it's worth the loss of a few rounds to get more reliability out of a single stack 1911.

9.3X62AL
02-13-2009, 03:47 PM
Just some food for thought, esp. if CCW is on the agenda.

I loved the Glock 21, and wish I carried it for uniform duty. 40 rounds of 230 grain persuasion among 3 magazines would last through any reasonably-expected insurrection a LEO would be liable to find themselves involved in. It's darn sure enough ammo to fight your way to the rifle in the patrol car trunk.

For concealed carry........all that ammo is heavy. I felt like I was listing to starboard all the time, and tried a number of holsters to manage that. Shoulder rigs did the best--so if I'm in a car, great--but in 115* summers........a windbreaker just won't work.

Now, I love the 45 ACP. I've owned a whole lot of them over the years. I still have an almost pre-historic S&W Model 645 that has at least 35K rounds through it, and other than replacing a couple small parts it just keeps on trucking. But its 5" barrel and all-steel construction is just a mite much for all-day CCW--as is the 1911A1 series. I finished my career carting around a S&W Model 4516TSW, and it was a decent CCW piece with 3.5" barrel and reduced grip length. This last element was a compromise, though--without the "hooked" magazine floorplates in place, the grip wouldn't work at all for me.

Best of breed (to me) for all-around utility, user-friendliness, fit, size, and weight is something along the lines of the Colt Commander or Browning High Power, SIG P-220 or -226, and the CZ-75. I'm nosing around for 2 new toys this year, one of which is a multi-purpose 45 ACP self-loader. I've narrowed things down to either a SIG P-220 or a Commander 1911A1 of some sort. If CZ could find a way to make their -75 in single stack 7/8 shot 45 ACP, I'd be on that like Urlacher on a tailback. For me, the CZ-75's ergonomics are the only pistol design to feel better in my hand than does a full-sized SIG-Sauer classic platform.

yondering
02-14-2009, 12:17 AM
If CZ could find a way to make their -75 in single stack 7/8 shot 45 ACP, I'd be on that like Urlacher on a tailback. For me, the CZ-75's ergonomics are the only pistol design to feel better in my hand than does a full-sized SIG-Sauer classic platform.

Amen brother! I really like the CZ 75's too, but the CZ 97 (their only 45ACP for now) seems to have a much bigger grip and looses the great ergonomics of the original design. The EAA Witness 45 ACP, which is a CZ clone, uses a grip frame closer in size to the original CZ 75, and the one I had shot very well. Some people report bad results with them though, so I think quality control must be a bit spotty.
A buddy just bought one of the compact CZ 75's in .40 S&W, what a sweet shooting little gun!

Catshooter
02-14-2009, 01:18 AM
I settled on the S&W Shorty 45.

Aluminum frame for lighter weight. Commander size, seven plus one. Feeds anything. Accuracy is stunning. First time I shot it, the very first eight rounds at 20 yards made a group that would in it's entirety behind a quarter. The whole group!

They can be hard to find.: )

They aren't perfect, but they are very very close.

I would also look at the Kahrs. I have a PM 45 and am very impressed.


Cat

HeavyMetal
02-14-2009, 02:39 AM
I'm going to second the "none of the above" remark!

Haven't had the chance to shoot the XD but a co worker has one in 40 and I'll shoot it soon. Para's are just to .....fat!

Several good single stack's out there find a nice one and have at it. Some are priced better than fair, Tauras is an example, price is good enough that if you need to you can install a Bar Sto and still not have a ton of money in it!

One more thing for the high cap guys "magazine capacity is NOT a Substitute for Marksmenship"!

Lloyd Smale
02-14-2009, 08:02 AM
can i say neither? I had a para 18 9mm double stacked and it was a good gun. It was reliable and accurate but i just couldnt get used to the double stacked mag. For the most part the xds ive shot havent been the greatest shooters so i would pass on them. Id recomend you look at the gun shops for a good used single stacked kimber, springfield or colt. theres enough of them out there that they can be found resonable and mags and parts are much cheaper for them.

yotatrd4x4
02-22-2009, 12:13 PM
I had a double stack para ordnance p12 and it was accurate but the mags are unreliable you have to buy extra power springs for the brand new mags to get the gun to function 100%. I also had to pay $50 a piece for 2 extra mags. I would go the XD route cheaper mags, reliable mags and way more abundant aftermarket parts. I traded my Para and will never have another. I will also never have another double stack 1911. theres a reason its a single stack and if the military didnt need the double stack or use one why would you. Not knocking you or anyone else just telling you do some research on the para 1911 mags. They are junk and will cause headaches. I think its appauling to buy a $800 subcompact 1911 and then fork out another $20 plus shipping to replace the weak mags.

Tom Herman
02-22-2009, 01:23 PM
Smith & Wesson Model 1917 revolver for me! That's what I'd want in a .45 ACP..

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

Muddy Creek Sam
02-22-2009, 01:31 PM
Well, I ended up with the Colt 1911WW1. All I can say.

Sam :D

Curly James
02-22-2009, 04:49 PM
Look at the S&W 1911 also. Mine is like a lazer beam and has fed everything I could find or load. I also handled a S&W MP compact in 45 ACP recently. I was fairly impressed and will explore that avenue further.
My S&W 625 is fairly finicky for a revolver when it comes to ammo. Factory runs like a dream but reloaded ammo would choke it. The same reloaded ammo would run just fine in my two 1911s, go figure.

Blammer
02-22-2009, 06:16 PM
I've shot the XD, not the para, but both fit my hand fine.

Not a fan of the LDA on the Para and not a real fan of the 'smushy' trigger on the XD. I did manage to put about fifty to a hundred rounds down range in the XD one time, no trigger time on the Para.

The intended use? CCW and plinking, not in any particular order of importance.

Why 13 rnds? because when plinking I hate reloading all the time, yea, yea, yea, get more mags.. :)

The XD is about $300 cheaper than the Para.

Hey_Allen
05-10-2009, 03:13 AM
For what it's worth, I really like my XD 45 Compact.

I tried shooting a couple of Glocks, Kimber 1911's, and a few others that I can't even remember now, at a range that has rental guns, and the XD just felt 'right' and pointed easily for me.

I've heard others say, and believe it now, some guns just feel right for different people.

As far as the trigger on the XD, Springfield has a few custom shop modifications they offer for the guns, as well as Springer Precision and a couple of other companies.
I don't mind mine as it sits out of the box, but if I ever decided to drop another $150-200 into it, I'll likely get the carry package from one of the two that I named.

mike in co
05-10-2009, 03:38 AM
sorry....real old school....but buying a pistol without a hammer....aint never gonna happen.
just me( and a few other people...)...so as much as the xd is a nice gun, no hammer , no purchase.
i have shot with guys that shoot double stack 45's and i shoot a cz97 staggered stack....for years.....no issues...so not sure where that comment about them not working came from.

my question to you, do they both fit your hands, do they both "point" from a natural grip, or do you fight the gun to get on target ?

( and if you look , u will see i just bought a para ord gi expert 1911......nice gun.)


mike in co

softpoint
05-11-2009, 10:43 PM
I like single action 1911 pistols. However, I carry a Glock or a J frame Smith for ccw. Full size 1911's are just too heavy for my needs as concealment guns. Now if I were going somewhere where gunplay was to be a high risk rather than a very remote possibility, It would be hard to leave my Kimber 10mm home. (It would be easy for ME to stay at home in that scenario!!):drinks::mrgreen:

steves86ta
05-13-2009, 12:22 PM
I was stuck between an XD45 and what i bought a ruger P90, now i know that ruger isnt the top of the line gun out, it isnt the most exspensive either. My friend has an XD in both 9mm and 45 i shot both a lot and rented a ruger from the local range. I loved the ruger, it does recoil a little more, but for what i use it for (plinking) it is awsome, and its pretty darn accurate too. I love it and i got the two tone one so it looks pretty cool too. My buddy that has the XD 45 even likes my gun more. Another thing i like is that it is solid steel, no plastic. Big thing for me.