i failed at smeltng...

[par0thead151]

well, i bought a propane tank, the dual burner from harbor freight, and the harbor freight dutch oven. i had the lead on there for at least 15 min and it just barley started to melt. what gives? is my dutch oven too far above the flame? i have not cut the feet off yet, as idk what a good height is.
anyone out there use the same setup?
thanks

[high standard 40]

What type of pressure regulator do you have on the tank? An adjustable one may be in order. Also, does that burner have a way to adjust air intake. What color is the flame? My burner has about 2" between it and the bottom of the pot.

[crabo]

Take a picture and show us what you've got. We can come up with some better answers.

[par0thead151]

the regulator is from harbor freight as well. not adjustable or so i can tell....
the flame is blue/light blue
no control on the air.

[par0thead151]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35559
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97333
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44705

the above is what i have.

[HeavyMetal]

I think Crabo was suggesting a photo of your Dutch oven setting on the propane burner so we could see exactly what you are working with.

Also 15 minutes is not a lot of time with a lot of WW in that Dutch oven. I'd cover it, if you got a cast iron lid, and wait 30 to 40 minutes.

[targetshootr]

Yep, it's hardly worth checking for the first 30 minutes.

[leftiye]

Take the legs off of the oven (angle head grinder). Are you heating your lead outside where it's COLD? Both of these cause things to go slower. 15000 btus sounds like enough to me, but I'm not sure. Melting lead does take a while, so give it some more time maybe. If you're outside try to find some sheetmetal, and make a windbreak around your burner and pot.

[Kraschenbirn]

What were you trying to smelt? Wheelweights? Range scrap? I smelted a 5-gal. bucket of WWs Sunday and the first pot (30-35 lbs) took around 40 minutes to melt to the point where I could skim off the clips and flux the pot. After that, though, I'd leave a 1/2" or so of lead in the bottom of the pot to maximize heat transfer and melt time reduced significantly.

Bill

[southpaw]

it takes awhile to get the ww to melt down but once you have a few inches of lead in the bottom the wws will melt faster. always leave a few inches in the bottom of the pot when you are done as this will help get things going the next time you smelt.

[454PB]

I see your problem. Though it's advertised as 15K BTU, that means each burner puts out 7500 BTU. Your dutch oven is too big for one burner and too small to cover both burners. You need a smaller diameter pot, and even then it will only melt about 25 pounds at a time. Cutting the legs off the pot will help, but you're still under heated.

[RustyFN]

I'm running a 186,000 BTU burner with a 20 pound regulator and the same dutch oven. It takes me close to 30 minutes to melt a full pot.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8db32b3127ccec44f2219209c00000010O00DZOGblm4Yg9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
You need to let it go longer.
Rusty

[imashooter2]

I'm with 454PB. Not enough burner for the pot.

Too bad... for the $50 you spent on the burner and hose, you could have gotten yourself a nice turkey fryer.

[par0thead151]

Take the legs off of the oven (angle head grinder). Are you heating your lead outside where it's COLD? Both of these cause things to go slower. 15000 btus sounds like enough to me, but I'm not sure. Melting lead does take a while, so give it some more time maybe. If you're outside try to find some sheetmetal, and make a windbreak around your burner and pot.

it takes longer than i assumed. i had it cooking for 15-20 min max. i made a wind break out of cardboard(temporary, and flammable i know, sheet metal will be on the agenda for tomorrow.) it was 60 out today
i will post pix tomorrow when i have it set up again. and i will take off the legs until it sets just above the flame guard on the burner.

[3rptr]

Would the burner out of an old water heater work, maybe under a rebar grid to hold the pot?

[357maximum]

Would the burner out of an old water heater work, maybe under a rebar grid to hold the pot?

I used one for a few years. I DID NOT USE A REGULATOR, JUST A VALVE...I am not sure how it would work with a regulator. I could put flame 4 feet into the air before it gagged and choked itself out.

[Bret4207]

30 minutes?!!! Holy cow! Remind me never to get rid of my plumbers gasoline furnace. 10-15 minutes and I have most of the melt in liquid form. Of course it is gasoline and very loud and a bit dangerous.

[44man]

I used one for a few years. I DID NOT USE A REGULATOR, JUST A VALVE...I am not sure how it would work with a regulator. I could put flame 4 feet into the air before it gagged and choked itself out.
My plumbers furnace has a valve and I don't use a regulator. I can make it roar like an after burner. My turkey fryer has an adjustable regulator too.
I would remove the regulator. The valve on the stove should be enough.
As long as you don't kick over the tank and get liquid propane flowing, it should be OK outside.
You might be able to find an adjustable regulator too.

[jonk]

Hmm. Makes me glad I went with the weed burner option. That thing will easily melt 30, 40 pounds of weights down in 10 minutes. Largely because you can blast 'em from the top and there is less heat lost to the pot as a transfer.

[GLL]

This high pressure Camp Chef single burner is rated at only 60,000BTU but can handle a 200 pound potload of WW in short order ! It melts the batch in my homemade steel "pots" faster than another 186,000BTU unit I had !

I think most of the burners are now imported from China and the sellers simply slap on a BTU rating that sounds good for quick sales ! :) :)

I am sold on the quality construction of the Camp Chef ( Made in Utah) but it is pricier than Harbor Freight and WalMart !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/884739BFB73F683/standard.jpg

[par0thead151]

if i can not get this setup working i will retrn it to harbor freight.
who sells turkey friers? how many BTU's is that?
is there any route i can go that would allow me to use natural gas as the fuel? i ask because my grill is right next to where i smelt(by right next to i mean a good 15 feet away and i could run a gas line from the grills nat gas line.
unlimited fuel cant hurt.
i will try not using a regulator and see if it improves melt time.

[angus6]

If I remember correctly when converting a propane bbq to n.g you drill the orifices to a bigger size , not sure if a hi-psi regulator would take care of it or not

[snuffy]

You're lucky yours didn't crack like mine did! First try at smelting/melting scrap lead resulted in the HF dutch oven going PLINK! It hadn't been on the turkey fryer for 5 minutes! HF replaced it, but a buddy had one, non-HF dutch oven that he had been using for melting sinker lead. He let me borrow it, then gave it to me. So I don't know if the replacement will crack or not.

My opinion is as others here, your burner is anemic, and the pot is too high off the flame. I dunno what my T fryer is rated for, but I can melt a 6 quart pot full of lead in under 30 minutes. I seldom run it at full open.

[RustyFN]

This is the one I have, $50.
http://bayouclassicdepot.com/images/bcsp10_propane_burner.jpg

http://bayouclassicdepot.com/sp10_propane_burner.htm
I can fill up the six quart dutch oven and scoop the clips when melted, fill in again to get a full pot and scoop again. In around 30 minutes I have a full pot. The pot will hold almost one full cat liter bucket doing it that way.
Rusty

[high standard 40]

Never use a propane bottle without a regulator. It is not safe. Just because some have done it without incident does not make it safe. Get an adjustable regulator and you can crank it up safely. There was a flash fire accident here with someone cooking with a propane bottle without a regulator. My advice would be don't do it.

[44man]

Never use a propane bottle without a regulator. It is not safe. Just because some have done it without incident does not make it safe. Get an adjustable regulator and you can crank it up safely. There was a flash fire accident here with someone cooking with a propane bottle without a regulator. My advice would be don't do it.
None of my Coleman conversion kits came with regulators, not even for the heater. Just a hose with the fitting for the tank. Use the valves on the appliance. My plumbers stove did not have one either, just a hose.
I would not use propane in or near the house or a building without a regulator or on my BBQ, but see no harm outside when melting lead. Just don't kick the bottle over.
I think propane uses a larger orifice because my kitchen propane stove never had a hot flame. I asked the guy that fills the tank and he said it was set for natural gas. It was supposed to have been right when I bought it. He cranked it to the other setting and the wife now complains when she burns food.

[Typecaster]

This high pressure Camp Chef single burner is rated at only 60,000BTU but can handle a 200 pound potload of WW in short order ! It melts the batch in my homemade steel "pots" faster than another 186,000BTU unit I had !

I think most of the burners are now imported from China and the sellers simply slap on a BTU rating that sounds good for quick sales !

Jerry—

I'm curious about a 186-MBtu burner, especially if your 60-MBtu Camp Chef outperforms it. For all practical purposes, LP-gas (almost never pure propane, but a mix of propane, butane and propylene) contains 91,500 Btu per gallon. Assuming you're feeding from a 20-lb cylinder, which holds 4.73 gal. of LPG, you have 432,795 Btu at your disposal. A 186-MBtu burner would drain the cylinder in less than 2-1/2 hours...was that your experience with that burner? If a cylinder lasted any longer than that (with the burner going full blast) there was some "creative" rating going on.

I'll echo your praise of Camp Chef products, but I'm pretty sure that they are imported as well...at least they were when I did a write-up on them for a magazine back when turkey frying was new and different. Quality products, quality people.

I use a Bayou Classic turkey fryer burner from The Home Depot that was on clearance because somebody filched some of the accessories. The company website doesn't list Btu ratings, but when I was smelting my stash it didn't take long, and it doesn't roar like a weed burner or a gas forge. Now if I could just disguise the smell of WWs cooking...

Richard

[44man]

Propane tanks do not have a lot of pressure. The gas is liquid and pressure changes as it gets used. The regulator maintains a constant flow. Sun on the tank or a bitter cold day changes things so a regulator is a good idea.
Natural gas is a steady flow at a more even pressure. A regulator only adjusts fluctuations.

[GLL]

Richard:

Some of my Camp Chef burners (we have twelve) are pretty old. The two newer models have completely different components so may indeed be from China. The welding on my older single high pressure burner does not look like the cheaper stuff from China though. A couple of my dual burner camp stoves with the new valve manifolds may certainly be imports but are still well made.

The 186,00 BTU Chinese unit I bought to test did not consume propane at a rate any greater than our
the 30,000BTU Camp Chef camping stoves ! Very interesting ! :) :)

That 60,000BTU high pressure burner sounds like a 747 taking off and puts out a LOT of heat !

"I LOVE THE SMELL OF WHEEL WEIGHTS IN THE MORNING"

Jerry

[Typecaster]

Thanks, Jerry, I thought so (re: propane consumption).

I do have concerns about "burner noise" because we Kalifornians who live in the hills and have exotic hobbies don't like to draw attention to ourselves.

Richard

[Baron von Trollwhack]

RustyFN and several others show a good typical set up for using a fair amount of scrap periodically to make your ingots. Couple of things to consider.

My setup and pot is similar and holds about 60 pounds of ingots. Thus I make 60 pound lots and keep separate as I melt all the plubnumious scrap by the potful. Leaving a bit of melt in the pot does in fact help the later melts go quicker. Sometimes a bit of cardboard wind shielding is helpful, as is a lid cocked to help hold in the heat and let off smoke, the smoke will carch fire sometimes too.

Tell your neighbors it's for the children, I mean, for fishing sinkers. 0 is watching. no shorts while cooking, long sleeves, goggles, gloves; you know the reason, try to have lots of cheap molds or hold an ingot party. Viva turkey cookers, collards too !

BvT

[Fixxah]

11356

Here's my setup. I need a bigger pot though.

[jawjaboy]

This high pressure Camp Chef single burner is rated at only 60,000BTU but can handle a 200 pound potload of WW in short order ! It melts the batch in my homemade steel "pots" faster than another 186,000BTU unit I had !

I think most of the burners are now imported from China and the sellers simply slap on a BTU rating that sounds good for quick sales ! :) :)

I am sold on the quality construction of the Camp Chef ( Made in Utah) but it is pricier than Harbor Freight and WalMart !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/884739BFB73F683/standard.jpg


Where's those fancy rectangular ingot moulds in that pic? :mrgreen:

.

[GLL]

jawjaboy:

Check this thread ! You must have missed it :) :)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=45817

Very old cast iron muffin pans plus rust equals nice 1.5 pound ingots ! :) :)

The larger six pound ingots are from custom welded steel moulds from jawjaboy!

Slight rust is extremely beneficial !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/FB02054454498D2/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/5A6777B8FA7EE62/orig.jpg

[Ghugly]

If you have it handy, natural gas is the way to go. Smelted 400 lbs at my kids house. His wife went over the gas bills, convinced that the monster was burning money, and couldn't see any difference from the months with no smelting. You need a bigger flame to do the same job, but it sure is cheap.

[ghh3rd]

I just got a Bayou Classic burner 185,000 btu ($49 at Lowe's) and a 20lb tank of propane. I couldn't believe how quickly it melted a half dutch oven full of WW - perhaps about 10 min. That thing puts out a ton of heat. Yesterday at lunch I came home, fired it up and tossed a 33 lb chunk of lead (about 1x10x6") on end. It took a few minutes but soon looked like a stick of butter melting from the bottom. 33lbs of ingots later I was back at work.

To bad I bought a burner. Rght after I used it my brother in law said he has three and would have given me one.

Randy

[par0thead151]

If you have it handy, natural gas is the way to go. Smelted 400 lbs at my kids house. His wife went over the gas bills, convinced that the monster was burning money, and couldn't see any difference from the months with no smelting. You need a bigger flame to do the same job, but it sure is cheap.

ok im interested. please tell me what i need to go with the nat gas route.
i have 1500# of wheel weights to smelt, so i need efficiency. and if i can get more at 20 cents or less a pound i will pick up another ton. IE a lifetime supply.

[par0thead151]

bump for those who use natural gas and are willing to share their setup info with me
thanks

[RustyFN]

The tank I use is from the BBQ. I had it filled and smelted two different times, around 800 pounds of ingots and still have a little left in the tank. That's with the 185,000 BTU one in the picture.
Rusty
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d739b3127ccec570e7bf2ec800000040O00DZOGblm4Yg9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[par0thead151]

well maybe i will just get a upgraded burner then as i have a blue rhino tank like the one posted above this post. i had no idea they lasted that long in terms of poundage able to smelt per jug. it costs 18$ to refill in my nec of the woods.
so 40$ in fuel to melt the lead is not too bad.
on a more promising note, i got my lee 6 cav mould today, and the promelt 20#er furnace, and a RCBS thermometer. now i just need handles for the 6 cav mould...

[par0thead151]

anyone ever use a coal powered blast furnace to smelt?
my buddy is saying he has one and it will make short work of melting the stuff...
however i worry about any zinc weights that slip by my search for them.

[imashooter2]

I once built a charcoal fired blast furnace to alloy lead and antimony. It was a huge PITA. Get a turkey fryer. We wouldn't steer you wrong.

[kamikaze1a]

Back in the "good ole days", I used to melt ww's with a charcoal BBQ for molding fishing weights. It melted pretty well providing you used enough briquettes. I graduated to a Coleman stove and that worked even better. Used a 14oz propane torch to help the ww's get started in the melting and I sometimes use the torch to this day to preheat in my Lee melter if I am pressed for time. Using the torch gets you molten lead in the pot in less than 5 minutes!

[jawjaboy]

jawjaboy:

Check this thread ! You must have missed it

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=45817

Very old cast iron muffin pans plus rust equals nice 1.5 pound ingots !

The larger six pound ingots are from custom welded steel moulds from jawjaboy!

Slight rust is extremely beneficial !

Jerry

Yessir, I missed it Jery. Sorry about that. :)
.

[10x]

I use a second propane tank and a tiger torch to speed up the initial melt. This is on a dutch oven sitting on a turkey cooker. It may take as long as ten minutes to turn 50 lbs. to liquid.

[Crash_Corrigan]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=40238

Way back when I first started casting boolits I knew less than nothing. I first got a hold of Lymans casting manuel and read it cover to cover a couple of times and then went out and got a Lee 4-20 pot and a Lee 148 GR WC 6 Banger mold.

I had a 586 Smith and Taurus 85 to feed then. I set up the pot and after scrounging some wheel weights went to town. I got a small cast iron pot and put it on a coleman stove and smelted down the weights and fluxed with candle wax.

It was all going good until I started to mold boolits. I had a pair of leather gloves but that Lee 6 banger was really hot. I got another pair of bigger leather welding gloves and wore them. I now had two gloves on the left hand that held the mold and one glove on the right hand, safety glasses, boots etc. I was covered.

It was a nasty job making boolits but I kept it up. They turned out pretty good and I was a happy shooter and boolit caster. This went on for two years.

I guess I made about 6,000 .38 Wadcutter rounds during that time and one day a friend of mine invited me to go to a gun show at Cashman Field here in Vegas.

I was enjoying looking around and my buddy found my Lee mold with some others on a table. Only this one looked different than mine. It was the same mold but it had a pair of handles on it! Wow! I never knew they came with handles. All this time I was holding the mold in my left hand when I opened it to dump out the boolits and then I put it under the spout on a brick to hold it while I poured alloy into the empty mold and shook my left hand to cool off.

Needless to say I bought another Lee six banger with a pair of handles that day for $20 and used the handles from the new/used mold on my old mold. They fit just perfect.

A little knowledge can be dangerous but that had to be the most stupid thing I did for two years was to mold boolits without using the handles that the silly mold was designed for because of lack of complete knowledge.

If that did not turn me away from this addiction then I guess I am hopeless?

[The Dove]

I would not cut the legs off the pot unless it doesn't fit the burner top. I leave the legs on the pot to help hold the pot in place on the burner. The legs fit throug the rings on my burner. Just my way and opinion.

The Dove

[madman]

Build your own. Take a look at some of the back yard metal casting information on the web. They are way cheaper and much more effective. I and melt iron, brass, aluminum, alloyed steel.
if you want to PM me and I'll give you some sites to look at. or just Google. Also look at the homemade propane forges and foundry's. sites.
God Bless and be safe.

[joedapro]

that is a low pressure regulator. you will never get the heat of a plumbers pot out of your burner and regulator. your options are a smaller pot, longer burn time (at least you won't have to worry about zinc melting), or replacing your burner and regulator with one that provides more btu's (turkey fryer or plumbers stove).

[Chunky Monkey]

par0thead151 if your looking for a heat/wind shield you may want to go the route I did. I got this scrap culvert pipe for $8.00 from a place that manufactures them. I just cut a slot for the gas hose in the back.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Metzy84/Casting/102_1515.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Metzy84/Casting/102_1516.jpg

[par0thead151]

hmmmm lots of options now. i will for sure be returning the harbor freight junk though!
the debate is weather to go with a coal blast furnace( i worry about melting the zinc with this route), a propane burner turkey frier, or a nat gas setup.
thanks all for the info. I casted my first boolits tonight and i can say for certain, this is just as much fun as reloading/shooting.

[ghh3rd]

I'll put in a vote for the Bayou Classic SP10 burner. I got mine at Lowe's Home Improvement store for under $50. It's rated 186000 BTU - don't know if it can put out that much, but I'll never need to know.

I keep the flame sort of low under the dutch oven, shield it from any wind, and it melts the first load full in about 15 minutes, scoop out the debris, then fill it up to the top again, scrape the debris and flux it and pour about 60 lbs of ingots.

I did take the suggestion from this forum to set the ingot mold on a damp rag to cool the ingots quickly. I actually keep the rag very wet and tons of steam pour out from under the mold and I can dump it within about 15-20 seconds.

Randy

[Quality NUt]

Build your own burner.
Some copper tubing, an old "severed" 1 lb propane bottle and a couple of drill bits and you can make an AWESOME burner.
I use one to smelt ~200# at a time. It makes really short work of it.

Remove the valves from the 1# bottle and leave upside down over night.
Use cut off wheel to cut 1/3 off the bottom.
1/2" drill to put 6 evenly spaced holes in the shoulder of the bottle.
I used a 30-06 case head and drilled out the flash hole to achieve the proper diameter for gas flow. (start low and drill bigger until you like it.) I'll let you guess where it is located in the system.
Just get after it and insist on completion. Amazing how things can come together when you set your mind to it.
No reg used and the thing sounds like a jet. Everybody within a 1/ 2 mile knows when I'm smelting.
2nd design is simpler.
Use a length of 1/2 copper tubing ran through the bottom (perpendicular) of say 2" copper tubing.
Drill appropriate hole in 1/2 tubing, point upward into 2" tubing.
Plumb to your 20lb tank and away you go.

I have both, but prefer the first design. Just by chance, the first burner throws ~18'' flame and doesn't get the burner hot enough to burn the paint off of it .
2nd design I have gets hot.

[imashooter2]

hmmmm lots of options now. i will for sure be returning the harbor freight junk though!
the debate is weather to go with a coal blast furnace( i worry about melting the zinc with this route), a propane burner turkey frier, or a nat gas setup.
thanks all for the info. I casted my first boolits tonight and i can say for certain, this is just as much fun as reloading/shooting.


Coal is just too inconvenient as compared to gas. There's a lot to be said for turn the valve, click the spark and poof, flame. Propane will let you be portable. Natural gas is cheap, but you'll be stuck wherever you plumb it.

[par0thead151]

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=97394-1337-SP-10
is this a good deal or should i look elsewhere?
i want POWER... as im smelting atleast 1 ton maybe 2-3 tons(if my buddy can hook me upw ith more lead)

[imashooter2]

I got this one as I didn't care for the bent sheet metal legs of the one in your link. End of season close out is the best time to buy them, but if you have to have it now...

http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/3066a_turkey_fryer_kit.htm

[weakhand luke]

I use a second propane tank and a tiger torch to speed up the initial melt. This is on a dutch oven sitting on a turkey cooker. It may take as long as ten minutes to turn 50 lbs. to liquid.

Top heat! Even if only from a bernz-a- matic. Gets things rolling along.