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View Full Version : Mold for a 44spl.?



harley45
04-05-2005, 09:05 PM
my gunshop has one of the new Smith model 21 44spl. (the thunder ranch gun) and It seems to be calling my name. I hate the sideplate but from what I understand I can change that. I don't have a "combat revolver" and thought this would be kinda neat to have around for the wife and kids to play with, and maybee do a bit of hog hunting with so I need to know what mold to start looking for for this baby and some load data if you have any.
Thanks Eric

azrednek
04-05-2005, 09:16 PM
If you want a cheap plinker, Lee is surplusing the 214gr round nose, six-banger mold for 25 bux.

45 2.1
04-05-2005, 09:18 PM
I haven't seen one of the new S&Ws you're talking about, but have measured alot of the S&W 44 spl and 44 mag handguns from the last 20 years. Most had very large (0.431" to 0.4335") cylinder throats. I would check the gun your wanting with a unsized bullet that you know the size of or several of different sizes. If you can push it thru snugly, the throat is about 0.001" larger. Look at the new 44 bullet in the group buys.

MGySgt
04-05-2005, 10:18 PM
You can't go wrong with the lyman 429421 or the RCBS equivilant. I like the RCBS a little bit better mainly because of the molds.

Drew

Willbird
04-06-2005, 06:59 AM
240 grain boolit and 7.0 unique is a pleasant load you can use in either 44 mag or 44 special, and 7.0 can be used in many many many ctg./bullet combo's

if you get bored on a rainy saturday start digging and see how many ctg./bullet combo's you can load with 7.0 unique it will surprise you.

there are many rifle ctg. too but you won't find that in most modern loading manuals.

Bill

sundog
04-06-2005, 08:55 AM
We had a short discussion on this not to long ago (might have been on the old board), in fact, I may have started that particular thread, maybe, or at least responded to it, in reference to cowboy loads and plinking. I mentioned getting good results with the Lee 200 RF which mine weigh about 208 in straight WWs. Don't remember who chimed in, but they said they used that same boolit in a 44Spl, cartridge and handun, and had very good results. I load mine in 44Mag for both Bisley Vaquero and Rossi lever over 7 gr Grn Dt. Works good, because you can cast a 'freaking mountain of boolits' in no time. I'm pleased with the Lee wll enough that I will continue to use it over the Ly 429667(?) cowboy at 240 gr just because accuracy is as good or better and can cast'em faster. I've also switched over to a taper crimp for the light loads (separate boolit seater), and that seems to work out real good. sundog

fecmech
04-06-2005, 09:57 AM
I did the surplus buy from Lee on the 214 swc a year or two back and I like the bullet. I have had good luck with 6 and 7 grs of green dot and maybe just a just a hair better accuracy wize with 7 grs of 231.

9.3X62AL
04-06-2005, 10:52 AM
Hard to argue against the Lyman #429421. I've used both 7.0 x Unique and "Skeeter's Load" of 7.5 grains x Unique, and both shoot very well. I don't think either load has any business in the Charter Arms Bulldog, but is fine for the N-frame Smiths and probably the Colt New Service--if yer lucky enough to find one.

I know what Eric means about getting bitten by the large frame revolver bug. It has been over a year since I last serviced this particular addiction, but I too am teetering on the brink of another such venture. This one involves a New Service in 455 Eley, which has all the elements needed to get my attention--1) Colt, 2) Large Frame, and 3) Weird Caliber. A Smith of similar background would weave the same spell. Its price is pretty reasonable, too--cheaper than the Uberti 44 Russian top break I'm in the middle of talking myself out of currently.

beagle
04-06-2005, 12:33 PM
Allen...go for it. There's a NS .455 been floating around here for a while. I've missed it several times at the gun shop. One of these days, it will be my turn with it.

If you decide to get it, e-mail it and I'll send this 457196 HB mould out and you can make a bucket full and try them.

Might be able to help out on a little brass as well./beagle

beagle
04-06-2005, 12:38 PM
I'm not familiar with that model either. You've got some good suggestions as to bullets.

The 429421 and 429667 are both good shooers in the .44 Special and can't be beat.

I'm kind of partial to the oldies as well. The 429383 and the 429251 are both good shooters in it but some people have a thing against RN bullets. Supposedly these were the original replacement bullets for the factory loads. Now, I'm not much of a factory load shooter but the .44 Speical factory load ain't bad unless you're going up against big game. I've found both to be great in the .44 Special./beagle

C1PNR
04-06-2005, 10:43 PM
my gunshop has one of the new Smith model 21 44spl. (the thunder ranch gun) and It seems to be calling my name. I hate the sideplate but from what I understand I can change that. I don't have a "combat revolver" and thought this would be kinda neat to have around for the wife and kids to play with, and maybee do a bit of hog hunting with so I need to know what mold to start looking for for this baby and some load data if you have any.
Thanks Eric
I really like a 44 Spl for "Wood Loafing" time and I'm wondering about that same Model. Not decided yet. Please let us know what you think after shooting it a bit.

Other than the Gas Check thing, the 429215 is a lot of fun in the 44 Spl. I've loaded it a little below factory for having fun with the Charter Bulldog.

harley45
04-06-2005, 10:55 PM
I bought the gun this afternoon and come next payday i'm going to order the 429421 in a 4 cavity. after I play a bit I've decided to try some loads with 231 hs6 and unique to see what happens.
Eric

beagle
04-07-2005, 11:23 AM
With those three powders, you should be able to about cover the spectrum of loads.

Good luck with it and let us know how it shoots./beagle

Willbird
04-07-2005, 12:38 PM
It is just a crying shame that Lee does not have a 6 cylinder for a 250 grain RF, 200 is too light, and 300 is too heavy IMHO esp. for 44 special.

I know they are not loaded with cast boolits but the Blazer 44 special ammo is some special stuff too, really puts some poop in the old ctg. for a factory offering.

Bill

harley45
04-07-2005, 08:34 PM
I sure hope I can get this thing to shoot decently I had to trade a couple of seldom used rifles to get it (transmissions are expensive and my wife thinks she needs to drive) I think with the lyman Boolit this will make a good deer and hog gun. So far the results with silvertips are looking good, but you should have seen my leo buddies faces when Mr. 1911 showed up with a wheelgun!!
Eric

Bret4207
04-08-2005, 06:59 AM
I'm currently in the middle of some sperimentations with my 44 Spec and 45AR. See my posts under "Poured some lead today" I think it is. I also am on the band wagon for Lee to produce a PB 200 + 250gr SWC type 6 banger. They have a real nice looking 358 that is more of a RFN that would work design wise. The bigger bullets like the 429421 are just dandy from what little I've seen, but the light area lacks. As Dep Al stated those 250's in a smaller gun like a Charter Bulldog, which I'm working with along with a S+W 24-3, are just too much if pushed to anything much past 600-700fps. Not that I'd want to stand in front of the gun at 600 fps, but you'd like to enjoy shooting too. And, lets face it, the Charter ain't built like a Smith or Ruger. But there's the utility of a 19 oz. gun in a major caliber. If I'm going out fencing or moving some crazy bulls or heiffers the Bulldog gets the nod for weight and not worrying about scratching up a real nice gun. So the need for a light bullet exists. I bought a 429215 in hopes it would answer, but my particular mould suffers from "Lymanitis", ie-in WW it throws .428-9 boolits. Too small, and why add a gas check to this design? Don't need it. If I could find a 429215 that threw .432 boolits in WW I'd have it "de-horned" and get rid of the GC forever. A hollow point copy would be fun too. Of course the Lee RNFP profile at 210-220 gr would be the ticket in a 6 banger. Or so I would hope.

BD
04-08-2005, 07:37 AM
I have a Saeco .44 265 grain RNFP GC mold I'd sell. Somehow I wound up with three of these? It's a good weight for the .44 and doesn't need to be driven as fast as the LBT style bullets to shoot well due to the smaller meplat.
BD

Bret4207
04-08-2005, 09:00 PM
I just noticed Lee does have a PB .429-200RNFP in a 6 banger! Looks a lot like the BD45. They have the same thing in 45 at 200 gr also. Anyone ever try them? Guess I should look at the catalog before whining next time.

krag35
04-08-2005, 11:02 PM
Tpr. Bret;
I used the Lee 200gr. RFP in a Tarus 441 3" with great results. 8.0 gr Unique did all I would want a 44 spcl to do. Havn't tried the 45 200 grainer.
krag35

Shuz
04-09-2005, 01:19 AM
I just noticed Lee does have a PB .429-200RNFP in a 6 banger! Looks a lot like the BD45. They have the same thing in 45 at 200 gr also. Anyone ever try them? Guess I should look at the catalog before whining next time.

Tpr Bret--I've had a lotta good luck with the Lee 200g RNFP in my .44 mags. 9.0g of Green Dot works the best for me. I've hadda couple of the Lee 6 bangers, and they both went outta round after a while. One was the tumble lube 240, and the other was the 214g, kinda round nose swc. Both shot well untill they went outta round. Don't know why,--- but they sure did, and at the present time I don't own any and I'm happy! I haven't experienced that outta round problem with the 2 cav Lee's.--Shuz

Shuz
04-09-2005, 01:26 AM
BD -- You indicated you had several 265g Saeco's in .44 cal. Would you consider a swap for a 2 cav Saeco #439?--Shuz

Bret4207
04-09-2005, 08:12 AM
Shuz!!!! Welcome home. Were ya been? Haven't hardly seen anything of you in a while.

TCLouis
04-09-2005, 09:27 AM
Harley45
I have an 4 cavity with original square lube groove I will part with for fair price under list.

I am getting shed of some molds and I am loaded with more 44s than I can cast.
Email me or PM and I will quote the price. I have not laid eyes on it for several years, but it is sealed in an ammo can so it should be OK.

LouisB

BD
04-10-2005, 10:29 PM
BD -- You indicated you had several 265g Saeco's in .44 cal. Would you consider a swap for a 2 cav Saeco #439?--Shuz

Shuz, someone may have beaten you to the one set up for hand casting. I have to confess I have no idea what the Saeco #439 is?
BD

harley45
04-10-2005, 10:33 PM
Thanks for the offers guys but while at the range today a buddy offered me a trade for an ar15 in .45 Automatic and I'm considering doing it

Shuz
04-11-2005, 10:25 AM
Shuz!!!! Welcome home. Were ya been? Haven't hardly seen anything of you in a while.

Oh, I been around, I just haven't been around much or posted much. You see I gots a "dial up" system that is super slow, and we live in the boondockels so there ain't much hope for improvements. Besides, I'm a little too frugal(cheap) to spend the big bucks to go satellite etc. I still receive all my TV channels the old way with an outdoor antenna!
Now..... when I go over to my daughter's place in Seattle, I manage to get on quit a bit! She has cable or DSL or sumthin like that.

Shuz
04-11-2005, 10:28 AM
Shuz, someone may have beaten you to the one set up for hand casting. I have to confess I have no idea what the Saeco #439 is?
BD

BD--The #439 is a swc gas checked design that weighs about 240g. Last time I checked it was still being offered by Saeco, at least it is in the latest Midway catalog.

nevada duke
04-13-2005, 01:43 AM
Well, this is my first time post here, and I am glad to find a bunch of .44 Special fans. I have had two .44 mags, one a Ruger Super Blackhawk, and another a S&W model 29 with 6.5 inch barrel. Back about 1983, 1985, or so, I ordered a S&W model 624, in .44 Special. 4" barrel, square butt and , stainless, it came from J&G down in Arizona. This revolver has been traveling with me for the last 20 or so years, and is all you could want from a sidearm. Most of the time it is sitting on the seat of my truck when traveling the outback of Nevada. Handloading the .44 Special is easy, every thing remotely sane will work. I have put thousands of rounds through this gun, and most of them were in the 6-7 grains of Unique class. But many were put through with a full case full of Winchester 296, when power was needed. The .44 frame S&W revolvers, when equipped with the 4" barrel, fit nicely in the back pocket of a pair of Wranglers. So you don't need a holster and belt if you want to go for a little walk. I've got all the other important handgun calibers, and the .44 Special is the Super Classic in my book. If I ever get down to one handgun, the S&W model 624 will be the one.

I have a much newer .44 Mag. S&W 629-5, and it is very nicely fitted and would be my choice if I wanted to hunt with the .44, but the 44 Special is still my pal.

Regards from Nevada duke.

9.3X62AL
04-13-2005, 11:16 AM
I sure enjoy my M-624 x 6-1/2". I haven't tried any of the "full case of 296" loads in my gun, just about all its shooting has been done with "Skeeter's Load" of 7.5 grains of Unique beneath either Lyman #429244 or #429421. These run about 950 FPS.

What kind of velocities do the full case/296 loads achieve?

Good seeing ya here, Duke!

nevada duke
04-19-2005, 12:54 AM
Deputy Al, thanks for the welcome back. I realized later that when I started ranting about how much I like the .44 Special, that I didn't answer the original question. My favorite boolit molds for the .44 bore are the Saeco 245 grain SWC of Keith design, and a rounded flat nose gas-check of 250 grains, also by Saeco. The SWC is the number 441, and the FN is the number 431. After holding out for a couple of decades, I have learned that a gas-check design is good to have in this caliber. When you add a Marlin .44 mag. model 94 to the equation, the plain base boolits start to look bad at 1800 fps in the rifle. They are also better than J-word bullets when used to clean leading out of your revolvers, because the gas check really does clean up the rifling. I have tried various lighter boolits, but I keep going back to the 240-250 weights. Lighter boolits require sight adjustments, and I am getting too old to remember to do that with too many guns. The old adage of "beware the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to shoot it", should be amended to "beware the man with one gun and one load, because he REALLY knows how to shoot it".

As to Winchester 296 velocities with the 245 grain SWC, 19 grains with Win. std. primer gives me 1150 fps out of the 4" barrel. Probably 1250-1300 fps out of your 6.5" barrel. No pressure signs or extraction problems, and a great fireball at night. This is a full case load, and that is where W296 works the best. I don't think you can over load any modern S&W .44 with a case full of W296. The extreme spreads of the chrono get smaller and smaller as the case gets fuller and fuller.

Most of my shooting these days however is done with 7 grains of Green Dot at around 900 fps. Green Dot is a GREAT powder for reduced loads in big almost empty cases. Tried it first in the .45 Long Colt, and later in everything up to and including the 45-70. Much better than Unique or Herco as to velocity spreads.

May all of your BB's fly straight, Nevada duke, over and out.

Bret4207
04-23-2005, 07:11 AM
Funny, here I am getting away from gas checks after using practically ALL GC boolits and Dukes headed towards them. Thats what I love about this hobby. Always something to learn. Great thread BTW. Fer sure a keeper. I'm gonna print this one.

nevada duke
04-26-2005, 01:56 AM
Tpr Bret, I don't think that I am moving towards gas-check bullet designs as much as realizing their worth under certain circumstances. The Marlin Cowboy 1894 with its 24" barrel, pushes a 240-250 grain boolit out the muzzle at right around 1800 fps. with a case full of W296. And my plentiful plain base bullets produce some leading at that velocity. Almost all of my .44 caliber shooting is done with the Saeco 245 grain Keith type boolit with the plain base. It is only in the rifle that the gas-check is an improvement. BUT, the gas-check boolits are IMHO more usefull than J-word bullets, when used to remove leading out of my revolvers. I don't like to use gas-checks and have tried several combinations of wads and lube under the boolit to eliminate them, but some times they work for me better than anything else, at least so far. Experiments continue.

Best regards from Nevada duke.