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View Full Version : Finally got to do some slug shooting!



longbow
02-09-2009, 02:04 AM
Well, it was about time!

Things didn't go nearly as well as I would have liked but like they say "A bad day at the range is better than the best day at work". Good thing I've got a job though as I don't think these results would get me a job writing for a gun magazine or designing slug moulds or loads.

It was a nice sunny day and just below freezing. Best of all, the snow was hard enough to walk on which is good because it is still deep.

I loaded up 10 each of:

560 gr. wadcutter hollow base (home made mould) 520 gr. TC hollow base (home made mould) 660500 Rapine 0.735" round balls left over AQ clones made with 0.735" round balls



All were loaded into Fiocchi low base hulls with Winchester 209 primers and for simplicity all powder charges were 33 grs. of Blue Dot.

All shooting was with smoothbore and open sights.

I had loaded 10 of each with the intent of seeing if they grouped well enough at 50 yards to try another group at 100.

The wadcutter slugs and TC slugs were made with the same mould. Both have a skirt of about 0.100" thick and have a balance point about 1/3 back from the nose.

Diameter is 0.651" and they were paper wrapped (to take up slop) and loaded into Winchester AA Red wads with a 1/8" nitro card wad under the slug. The Rapine 660500 were about 0.662" diameter and again paper wrapped and loaded into Winchester AA Red wads and again with a 1/8" nitro card wad under them.

I used 3 wraps of 0.004" paper on the 0.651" slugs and 2 wraps on the Rapine slugs to take up rattle room in the shotcups. They were all dry wrapped and paper cut in 4 petals.

I shot the first 5 shot "group" with the wadcutters, looked at the group and sobbed a little (well not really, I am more manly than that) so decided to shoot the other 5 at 50. No better.

I then shot 10 shot groups at 50 yards with all other slugs. Paper wrapping left the slugs right at the firing line and all slugs hit the paper nose on but groups were 12" to 16" at 50 yards.

Recovered wads from hollow base slug loads were badly blown and even the nitro card wads were crushed in the middle where they tried to climb into the hollow bases. Also, several had wrinled petals. Thicker petal steel shotcups would likely have made for a better fit and probably would have avoided blown wads. I don't have any though and none available locally.

The left over AQ clones were from a previous loading session and originally had 38 grs. of Blue Dot behind a 0.735" round ball with attached skirt. Last time out I pulled the trigger once and found the report and recoil substantially more than just a 0.735" round ball over the same charge and the cartridge wouldn't eject so I decided to pop the primers out and drop 5 grs. out. Did that but still got sticky extraction this time.

I have not seen any pressure signs using 38 grs. of Blue Dot under a 0.735" ball and am now down to 33 grs. so can only conclude that the attached skirt is causing too much barrel friction and so high pressure.

The winners of the day were plain old 0.735" round balls sat in a cut down shotcup and with a 1/8" nitro card wad under them. Those gave me a 10 shot group of 6" x 8" at 50 yards and 8 shots were in 4" x 6" vertical with the other two shots out horizontal. So far the 0.735" ball have given pretty consitent performance with groups of 4" to 6" at 50 yards for past outings.

What did I learn?

1) Well, it appears that either a filled hollow base, more hard card wads and maybe a different shotcup might help avoid blown wads and wrinkled petals.

2) The slugs from my home made moulds gave better accuracy than the Rapine slugs ~ likely due to thicker skirt so less wad deformation.

3) Since Rapine designed and sells this mould it must be a better performer than what I saw today so again I figure a shotcup change and better support is in order.

4) The 0.735" round balls are pretty consistent performers and while don't provide tack driving accuracy they give dependable results.

5) So far I have had best results with full bore slugs and round balls. Since I like full bore slugs I will make another mould for full bore TC hollow base.

Before I give up on slugs sized for shotcups I will try some different plastic shotcups and better support for the slugs along with filling the hollow base.

So far the best hollow base slug performance I have gotten is with the Rapine 730550 which gave me 2" groups at 50 yards ~ not too shabby. I have also gotten similar accuracy with AQ's, Brenneke, and Gualandi DGS slugs but no other home cast Foster style I have tried has performed as well.

The search continues.

In hind sight, it was a good day at the range. I learned something, it was a nice sunny day to be outside, I was shooting (always a good thing), my daughter came out with me and shot my .22 and .50 cal. Hawken (even better shooting with family), and last but not least. I remembered extra padding so my shoulder isn't all bruised!

Hopefully I will be back at it with better results in a week or two.

Longbow

missionary5155
02-09-2009, 06:02 AM
Good morning Longbow ! Thanks for the report !
"Walking on snow" ! That sure brings back memories of Michigan.
It is so interesting how one little item in shotshells will spike pressures ... and with Bluedot !
I think all you need is just some twist on those slugs... same for the RBīs. Do you have a Improved Cylinder or "Loose" modified barrel or choke for that 12 guage ? Maybe a little last moment constriction will help guide those slugs on thier way...
With smooth bores there has to be more to do with the barrel length. The smooth bore 69īs (36+ inches) must give the ball that extra time to settle down... Plus Black is comparatively gentle on the ball. One of them old Marlin Goose Guns with a 36 inch barrel just might be the winner in a RB smooth bore match.
Imagine if some rifling cutter out there jumped in with 26" Mossy, Remington ... rifled barrels with slow twist.. or any twist desired... Why all 15 of us would be forming a line !
Mike

mikenbarb
02-09-2009, 11:27 AM
Try the Lee keyed slug with their data for them and I think you will have better results. I have tried many slugs and found the Lee's are one of the most accurate I have shot after developing a load within their listed charges. Im shooting a rifled barrel and it definatly makes a big difference. What barrel and choke are you using with your gun?

longbow
02-09-2009, 09:39 PM
The gun I used is smoothbore and cylinder all the way. I wouldn't be putting 0.735" ball through any constriction. I don't have a rifled barrel and am working to get the best accuracy I can with smoothbore slugs.

I have shot a load of 38 grs. of Blue Dot under a 0.735" ball from a fully rifled barrel with pretty impressive results ~ groups of 2" or a little better at 50 yards. That was a barrel with 0.727" groove too so a tight fit for that balll but they shot well and no pressure signs.

As mentioned, I have gotten very good accuracy with several smoothbore slugs but only one home cast Foster style so far and that is the Rapine 730560 ~ 2" groups at 50 yards from the same gun. I have some more to test so will shoot some more groups at 50 to re-confirm then try at 100 yards.

Where I started (and still am more or less) is wanting a Paradox style barrel. Don't ask why, I just do. Always had a fascination for them.

I have not yet tried a rifled choke tube but have read enough reports to not want to use what is currently on the market for at least two reasons: they torque down very tight and can be extremely difficult to remove; the twist is much faster than a round ball or square slug wants or needs. Also, my gun is not set up for screw in choke tubes.

The plan is to try a few more things with smoothbore then if the elusive 4" group at 100 yards (I'd be happy with 6") is not achievable (I am told it is but I haven't seen it) then I will build a rifling bench and make a Cutts Compensator style screw in choke tube system and choke tube with a 1:70" to 1:100" twist. A 12 ga. ball wants about 1:110" but a little faster may be better for a short fat slug. That slow twist should not result in severe torquing of the tube and if it worked for Paradox guns before there is no reason it won't work now.

I have been wanting to make a rifling bench anyway so this is a good excuse. A short one for choke tubes should be fairly easy and not take up much space. Shouldn't be more than a couple or maybe three feet long. We'll call it "Rifling Bench Junior".

I have not tried the Lee Drive Key slug or the Lyman 525 gr. sabot slug. From what I have read they both do well in rifled barrels and do well for some people in smoothbores too. If I can get some of them for testing I may give them a try but I am really leaning towards full bore slug with no sabot or shotcup. Actually the round ball is my favourite but that will take rifled tube or barrel to get good accuracy.

The snow is about 3' deep at the range so it is good that it has a hard crust or I wouldn't have been able to get to the targets! If I ever get a group worth posting I will!

Longbow

copdills
02-10-2009, 04:03 AM
Thanks for a very fine report, will be waiting to hear more on this

Greg5278
02-12-2009, 10:00 AM
Longbow, Sounds like you results mirror mine in the rifled gun. Shotguns with slugs can be frustrating, even the best plans often don't work. I finally got the truncated cone hollow point slug to work well. The wad is unslit, and is filled with nitro cards. They also seemed toshoot okay in the slit version, whish acts as a discarding sabot.

I managed to fire 5 shots and they went into 1.5" at 50 yards with a 1 in 28" rifled barrel. The slit version of the load was acceptable, but not by my standards. They 5 shots went into 3" or so, the funny part was there were 2 groups next to each other! The sighting point was the same.

The mostcrictical part of the slug in a wad seems to be the consistenct in petal thickness, followed by the wad column. I was originally using 20gauge nitro cards to fill the extra space in the wad. The accuracy was very poor, and slugs sometimes yawed. I found that the card was not seating in the middle of the wad. The wads have a step, and large radius in the base of the shotcup. I had to cut one to figure out the problem, after 50 shots or so. The solution was to set a 32gauge .125" nitro, then add 3 or 4 20ga on top. The slug finishes it off, and takes the whole setup through the target.

In your case, the hollow base is probably what causes you the problem, followed by the radius in the base. Try putting a .250" wool in the hollow base, or filling the base with silicone caulk. Parraffin might be easier to try for experimental purposes, and should be around the house.
If you need special sized filler wads, call Craig @ Circle Fly wads.

Keep trying, the shotgun slug experimenting can be fun, but has it's moments. Just try not to start throwing your relaoding gear when the test doesn't work!

Greg
AKA 12 Bore

Docj
01-12-2016, 11:48 AM
Hi guys, picking this up a bit later but I'd sure appreciate some help.
I shoot IDPA 3Gun - Colt 1911 .45ACP, Colt AR15 SP1 .223 and Remington 1100 12 gauge.
The Remington bbl is Improved Cylinder (0.720"). I recently acquired a Rapine 730550 slug mould (mold?) which is a beauty - casts a 550 grain semi-wadcutter slug with an average diameter of 0.734". You can see where this is going - 0.734" slug forced through a 0.720" IC bbl.
SAAMI pressure limits for a 12 gauge bbl are 11 500 - 12 000 psi. Here's the question.
Can I safely fire that Rapine slug through the IC bbl?
Thanks a bunch.
docj