What to Do - Rechambered

[MGySgt]

I fianaly got my Repro 1866 Sharps back and after having it rechambered from 45/70 to 45/90 I have one question (well more then that, but just one for this thread).

Should I treat this re-chamber like a new barrel? I mean Shoot some jacketed through it to take any rough spot out of the throat?

Or just go ahead and start shootring cast?

Drew

[Bass Ackward]

Should I treat this re-chamber like a new barrel? I mean Shoot some jacketed through it to take any rough spot out of the throat?

Or just go ahead and start shootring cast?

Drew

Drew,

Understand that all sizing and shaping takes place in the throat and the leade. After that has happened, assuming your barrel was smoothed up already, no further marking or sizing of the bullet takes place. Just start a slug in the throat and then push it through with a dowel rod. Just like a blow gun after you clear the throat.

I would say slug your throat. If your throat is more than .002 over bore, then shoot what ever you want because you have diameter sizing that will offer resistance to help ignition. If your throat is less than .002, then I might just try cast in it first because you may want the friction from a "rougher" throat to shoot soft cast. (My guess is that you shot jacketed before you had it re-chambered.)

[MGySgt]

Bass Ackwards - I really don't know the history of this rifle. I bought it used and I don't think too many rounds were fired before the owner put it up for sale. It had some problems with the tang sight and the chamber. The first time I took the block out the take down pin still had (I think) heavy cosmoline type grease in the channel and every nook and cranny in there.

I fired maybe 30 rounds of cast through it, just enough to know that with a little work it would shoot cast, before I sent it off for a set of Soule Mid Range sights, trigger work and to have a chamber reamer run up in it to 'Clean out and true up the chamber. The throat was real long so it was suggested to rechamber in 45/90.

I did slug the barrel and it felt smooth all the way through (from the muzzel) before the work was done. I can slud it again form both the muzzel and breach.

Thanks for any info you can offer.

Drew

I am just curious if I don't need to do something with it before I start shooting cast.

[Buckshot]

.............I know having my IAB rechambered from 45-70 to 45-90 which cleaned up an overlong chamber-throat-leade liability abortion sure turned that rifle around. I didn't do anything with mine except take it out and shoot it.

................Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

Bass Ackwards - I fired maybe 30 rounds of cast through it, just enough to know that with a little work it would shoot cast, before I sent it off for a set of Soule Mid Range sights, trigger work and to have a chamber reamer run up in it to 'Clean out and true up the chamber. The throat was real long so it was suggested to rechamber in 45/90.

I did slug the barrel and it felt smooth all the way through (from the muzzel) before the work was done. I can slud it again form both the muzzel and breach.

Thanks for any info you can offer.

Drew

I am just curious if I don't need to do something with it before I start shooting cast.

Drew,

You don't have to do anything. It's not like it is unsafe to shoot. After re-reading this, what I should of said was to slug your throat first. Then if it is .002 or over I would shoot what ever I wanted. If it was less, I would probably shoot lead exclusively. You'll understand as you get going with it.

While the benchrest boys lay claims to cutting throats that are .0005 over bore and such, a lot of guys have their throats enlarged so soft lead has some resistance before it get's going. If you shoot jacketed, you will change the angle of the leade to a more gracefull number, but on straight cases, this can cause ignition problems with all but the fastest powders.

Shoot the thing and enjoy the rifle. Just don't forget to slug. See what you are working with.

[MGySgt]

Bass -

Well - Slugged the bore, slugged chamber - I really am unsure what to do.

Bore - .459+ Some of the groves measure .459 and one set goes .460.

Throat- LONG lead over .145 ran out of lead on the slug I used, and is .461+ - Ballseat looks like. So that means I can't go over my current diameter of .460+

Head Space is set for a 45/70 not 45/90 (.065 vice .470, Rim thickness). So I have to thin the rim so I can close the breach block - royal PITA! I did 20 just to try them.

I did shoot it, the Soule Mid Range and Globe front are great, I had the triggers re-work and they are smooth as glass and breaks like glass.

The load - IMR 4198 35gr, dacron filler and a .4605 430 gr gc MM. That load is too hot for normal Fun shooting unless you like pain.

I have 2 choices - rebarrel (back to 45/70) with a badger barrel or - see if I can get the accuracy I want. If I can then send it back to have the head space cut to .470. What that will cost is time to thin the cases heads down .004-.005 for another 30 cases. I have 50 that I am willing to sacrific to see if it will shoot with the over size bore.

If I rebarrel I am out $50 for the re-chamber, but I had to try it.

Drew

[Bass Ackward]

Bass -

Well - Slugged the bore, slugged chamber - I really am unsure what to do.

Bore - .459+ Some of the groves measure .459 and one set goes .460.

Throat- LONG lead over .145 ran out of lead on the slug I used, and is .461+ - Ballseat looks like. So that means I can't go over my current diameter of .460+

Head Space is set for a 45/70 not 45/90 (.065 vice .470, Rim thickness). So I have to thin the rim so I can close the breach block - royal PITA! I did 20 just to try them.


I have 2 choices - rebarrel (back to 45/70) with a badger barrel or - see if I can get the accuracy I want. If I can then send it back to have the head space cut to .470. What that will cost is time to thin the cases heads down .004-.005 for another 30 cases. I have 50 that I am willing to sacrific to see if it will shoot with the over size bore.

If I rebarrel I am out $50 for the re-chamber, but I had to try it.

Drew

Drew,

I understand the situation. I believe that you will be OK from a survival standpoint. But .... you will forever be compensating for something. Trying to clean out your seater die to accept larger bullets, special sizers, yada, yada, yada. All of that adds up to a new barrel pretty quick. Then you don't have all the frustrations.

If you want to try what you got, you can seach for a company called 4D Reamers. I believe that you can rent the reamer and finish the chamber by hand yourself since you have to cut so very little on the rim. (Less than shipping the gun) We always finish the last few thousanths by hand to eliminate any crush and get the chamber to our standard. You can only do that by .... feel. 4D will rent you everything you need. Saves headaches with the brass.

If you do re-barrel it, enquire about the reamer specs from the guy who will do the job. Tell him why you are asking and what you want. Badger will get their end right. When you order the barrel ask Ernie who he would recommend to do the job. Believe me, those guys hate making a first rate product only to have their name smudged by shody work from someone else. But I would stay with the 45-70 unless you want to shoot black. What twist rate would you pick?

[MGySgt]

Bass,

I haven't decided on a twist yet for a re-barrel. I have to do some research first.

I gather by your post that you are a gunsmith - if so maybe you would do the rebarrel. If you are in business send me a PM or e-mail with some specifics.

MGySgt4099@hotmail.com

I am not having any difficulties with the seating die for the .460 bullet. I did buy a new expander plug from Lyman. The one you get with the standard M die is .455, but they sell a .458 expander plug that keeps the larger bullet from buldging the case. You can buy just the plug or the M die with the larger expander. I think the loaded round is just a little bit more accurate with the larger expander plug.

Drew

[Buckshot]

.............I'd shoot your rifle some first, AFTER notifying the knothead who did the chamber that you are NOT pleased, and what you're doing. See what they have to say. But heck, your rifle may shoot.

.................Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

Bass,

I haven't decided on a twist yet for a re-barrel. I have to do some research first.


Drew

Drew,

Gunsmith is a term we don't like to use because it is all incompassing. We do virtually nothing big bore, levers, handguns or for lead anymore. And I consider lead a speciality unto itself in the bigger bores. As an example when we did years ago, we had 3 different 45-70 reamers with different throat lengths and leade angles for different bullet weights and materials. There just wasn't enough business in this area to support that speciality. Lots of guys I know will jump at the work only, not on my guns. Erinie owns Badger and would know who to recommend.

I agree with Rick though. You should at least try it first. Then you can decide if you want to re-barrel or not. Besides, it is better to think this through so you get exactly what you want. That takes some time. I assumed that you contacted the smith that did the re-chamber for you about correcting the error. This is why I jumped to renting the reamer.

If the rifle shoots to your satisfaction, then you can address the headspace problem. But get out and try it.

[MGySgt]

Bass and Buckshot - That is what I am doing shooting it. I have my MM (430gr GC 75%FP) and I bought some from Dry Creek (430gr gc like the RCBS 405)

I really wanted to take this to Colorado this year for Elk, so I am going to try and work up a load that I feel confident in being able to hit with. I have a good load for my Ruger #1 in 45/70 (MM bullet) if the Sharps falls through that I can fall back to or heck I still can take one of my Marlins (1895 and 1895GG) with jacketed.

I just got done loading some more of the MM bullets, but the sun is in the wrong place (in my eyes) so I will wait until morning to shoot them (25, 50 and 100 yrd lines in my backyard, soon, hopefully, to be extended to 200). I backed these down 5 gr and seated to the crimp grove and crimped them. Seated out so far as the last ones I had a few that really did not want to chamber easily. AND THEY WERE TOO HOT I have a brused shoulder from only 10 rounds with a sissy pad on!!!!!!

All I have gotten from here is real good advice. I haven't contacted the shop that did the work yet, I really want to find out more about this before I call him. 10 rounds is not enought to tell too much. Couldn't shoot earlier today I had to go to my daughters and put in a new hot water heater. Took me longer to drive there then do the work but she lives almost 2 hours away.

I will let you know what I find out after the next set of rounds. I do like the trigger work he did and the Soule Sights are great!.

Drew

[MGySgt]

Well - Had some range sessions today - 3 different loads made a lot of noise and had some fun.

I loaded 30, 30.5 and 31 gr IMR 4198. These loads sure are a pusy cat compared to 35 grains. I seated to the crimp grove as seating them out to the lands gavce me some problems with chambering.

Ran out of prepped brass and had honey do's anyway.

Accuracy is about where I expected them to be. As it has been a long time since I used an aperature sight, I know I had problems with the spot well - Had 2 groups with each load of 5.

Gun has promise - At 67 yrds - It is grouping about 1 - to 1.25 inch. Stil have a few more to try. I know with my 45/70's top accuracy come close to max and I beleive that I am a few grains away from max. By the way I am using a wad of dacron to fill the case,

Now to find out what the shop is going to do about the head space.

Drew

[Buckshot]

.................I consider anything at 50 yards for 5 rounds going 1.5" as very good with iron sights. Sounds like all you need to do is get that rim issue taken care of. BTW, on my Sharps ground and then polished a slight radius on the top-front portion of the breechblock. Sure helps seat the boolit that last 32nd inch into the lands.

................Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

I have watched this thread with interest. I don't plan to re-chamber my Ruger #1 x 45-70, but I might do something about the short, ABRUPT leade in the throat. It might be .050" long, and the rifling origin profile is a close copy of a city street curb.

I plan to play with boolits first--get another mold that casts round boolits of sufficient diameter (.459"-.460"). The Lee 405 that did so well for so long has clipped the earthly coil, methinks--and the RCBS 300 grainer casts almost small enough to allow paper patching.

At some point, that is something I would like to try in this rifle--paper patching. The abrupt leade pretty much prevents that.

Anyway, that's the plan in a brief overview.

[MGySgt]

Buckshot - I know that 3 in groups at 100 for 5 shots is acceptable hunting accuracy, but - I only started the load development with this gun and IMR 4198 seems to be the least accurate powder I have tried in my 45/70's. The only reason I started with it was:

1 - The only manual I have that has 45/90 data has very slim pickens and that is one of the powders they list and I have some.

2 - I wanted to find at least a base line to go forward with.

3 - I think there is still room for improvement with IMR 4189.

Aperature sights, at least what I have found, are almost as accurate as a scope within reasonable range, say 200.

This has a Soule mid range rear and globe front using a circle insert. When I was shooting tournament archery, this was a very presice setup at some of the longer distances PROVIDED the bulls eye was of the right size to get a good circle within circle sight picture.

It has been a long time since I shot aperature sights (like mid 80's) and it will take me a little while to get use to them again.

I feel very good about the initial load development and I think I can get more out of it. I really want to try the 35gr load again - but have to let my shoulder heal some first.

Deputy Al - If you want I can send you some 430gr sized 460+ (gas checked). I shoot these out of my Ruger # 1 also. I am getting about 1.5 - 2 inch groups at 100 with them. I have to seat them just past the crimp grove for a little bit of bullet engraving.

PM me or send me an e-mail @ MGySgt4099@hotmail.com if you want to try some.

I too have noticed the short lead/throat and abrupt rifling. If I leave it for cast only I might get that filxed/opened up some more. But it shoots Hornady 350gr FP' soooooo well!

Drew

[MGySgt]

Buckshot - My huble apoligies - These !@#$%^ iron sights are going to be the death of me! I have been shooting a scope too long.

I know the last couple of loads I shot were good loads - I get 2 distinct groups with 5 shots 2 rounds in one group overlapping and 3 others in a clover leaf but they are 1 to 1.5 inches apart - Sure is a nice way to humble someone! Real quick too!~

I don't even want to get into the 100 yrd group - 10 rounds once again multiple mini groups but over all size about 4+ inches.

Bottom line the rifle will shoot with the oversize bore. I am in the process of trying 3031 and 5744.

This rifle does not like to go above about 16,500 psi (that is according to Quick Load). Of course my shoulder doesn't like it over that either! Even with a sissy pad!

Drew