Scout lever rifle

[thor32382]

I am looking at putting together a scout rifle and I'm was wondering if anyone knew of a fairly economical scope. I know Leopold and Burris are the most popular but, I don't have the $250 on top of the price of the rifle to buy a scope. Also, has anyone actually seen the new Marlin .338MX or MXLR in person? Any help would be appreciated.

[jh45gun]

I have had good luck with Swift Pistol Scopes.

[thor32382]

Thanks this is going to be kind of an experiment. I know according to Jeff Cooper's scout rifle the magnification should be no more than 4x I believe. Any suggestions as far as magnification?

[sundog]

I've used a Millet 2X (not on a lever), and it's good. With both eyes open, looking at the target, the cross hairs seem to settle in all by themselves.

[Bret4207]

Weaver used to make a K-1.3. In essence it's no magnification, but it seems to give a little magnification due more to the light gathering than the glass as I understand it. I use one on my 35 Whelen and have shot to over 250 yards on deer targets with no real problem. I would think something of 2X or even less would work fine in the Scout concept. I've never been a fan of anything over 2.5X in a LER or Pistol scope. Just seems too strange to get used to for me.

[thor32382]

What did you have chambered in a .35 whelen. I'm a bit torn right now between a Rem. 750 .35 whelen and a Marlin .338 Marlin Express. Decisions decisions.

[Bret4207]

O3A3, rebored original barrel and one of the ugliest stocks ever to see the light of day. I love it.

[Junior1942]

Weaver used to make a K-1.3. In essence it's no magnification, but it seems to give a little magnification due more to the light gathering than the glass as I understand it. I use one on my 35 Whelen and have shot to over 250 yards on deer targets with no real problem. I would think something of 2X or even less would work fine in the Scout concept. I've never been a fan of anything over 2.5X in a LER or Pistol scope. Just seems too strange to get used to for me.Bret is right on here. Low magnification is best on a scout scope. You have to give up field of view for the long eye relief of a scout or pistol scope, and the higher the magnification the smaller the already-small field of view becomes. ~2x is max for me.

The Leupold 2.5x28 IER I mounted scout-style on a Mosin-Nagant is a great scope. I side-by-sided it with several other scout/pistol scopes I own, and its light gathering ability put the others to shame.

[Junior1942]

Here's how I tested the scout/pistol scopes: It's about 75 yards from my front door to my mailbox. One hazy late afternoon I turned off my living room lights and one by one aimed all of my scout/pistol scopes through my screen door screen and toward my mailbox.

Through a cheap red dot, I couldn't tell I was looking at a mailbox. Through a 2x and two 4x pistol/scout scopes I could tell I was looking a mailbox. Through the Leupold 2.5x28 IER I could read the letters on the side of the mailbox.

[bobk]

I've also tested scopes at night, during a full or near-full Moon. I focus on a field across the way, and try to see how clear the brush appears. The advantage is that the light conditions aren't changing, as they rapidly do at dusk or dawn. I tested a cheap Simmons 3 X 9 that is very bright. Unfortunately, it is also the only Simmons I've seen that was worth having, IMO.
Bob K

[Larry Gibson]

Good advice from all (Oh my, first I give 45 2.1 credit and now i agree with Junior....will wonders never cease:-) ) but let me reinforce what Junior says. The leupold is the best. If you are spending mony anyway spend a little more for the Leupold. I use it adn a the burris 1.5X and a Burris 3X. All work very well.

One critical thing with 'scout rifles" is to get the scope mounted as low as possible. (0% of the "scout rifles" I've seen have the scopes too high, especially the milsurp rear sight replacement mounts. Went you shoulder the rifle and your head takes a proper stock weld the scope's field of view should just 'be there". You should not have to raise your head or search around for the scope sight picture. If you do it is wrong and no better than a regualr mounted low power scope. Mount the scout scope low and correctly and you will "see" wonders!

I have the burris base for my M94 carbine 30-30. It has a part that fits in the rear sight slot to screw to and the barrel band must be D&T'd to secure the front. I also went slightly into the barrel for a more secure mounting. I have used all three of my scout scopes on it along with 3 red dot sights. I have come to prefer the Burris 1.5X scout scope on it. It is fast, accurate to 300 yards (much farther than the 200 yard deer/elk/bear limit I have with this rifle/cartridge) and in general slicker than the scum on a Lousianna swamp!

I am seriously thinking of getting another leupold scout to mount on my 24" barreled M94AE Black Shadow 30-30. With Hornady's LeveRevolution 30-30 ammo it is a 300 yard deer rifle.

Larry Gibson

BTW; the Leupold scout scope is permantly mounted on a 6.5 Swede "scout" where the little bit of extra magnification is useable by that cartridge/rifle. It is a deadly combination to 400 yards.

[thor32382]

Thanks alot gentlemen for the help. I really appreciate it.

[BD]

I'll put in another +1 for the Leupold. I have one on my "Ugly Gun", a cut down swede that I pillar bedded into a cheapo Ramline stock. I milled the top off the rear sight base and then drilled and tapped a bit of weaver rail on for a mount. When I was bedding in the action I ground out enough stock that I could get another 1/4" of drop at the heel. In the end I didn't wind up needing the lowest rings.

I think of it like setting up a shotgun. If you close your eyes and throw it to your shoulder, when you open your eyes you should have the cross hairs. Drop and length of pull play a big part.

The largest Whitetail I've killed so far fell to that rig. I was sitting upright on a milk crate when I shot him at 175 yards. I don't even really remember aiming. I just threw the rifle up and fired when he got as close as he was gonna be.
BD

[Four Fingers of Death]

Wait till you can afford the Leupold. They last a lifetime and will probably save you money in the long run. I have one that I bought in the late 70s, it has been on a number of hard kicking rifes and a 308/12Ga combo. It has been on a well used 30/06 for the past 15 years and apart from a few scratches, it is like new.

The quality will be appreciated long after the cost is forgotten.

[Dark Helmet]

Find a used pistol scope!

[thor32382]

I honestly hadn't thought of that.

[yondering]

Another vote for the Leupold. I don't usually agree with Junior, but he nailed it right on this time.

Pistol scopes really don't work well as a scout scope. The eye relief is too far out there to work properly. Save up for the Leupold, you won't be sorry.

Larry Gibson is right on too, about mounting the scope as low as possible. It's hard to see in the picture, but mine has less than .100" clearance between the eyepiece and the reciever ring on my Mauser. Sorry for the lousy picture; seemed like a good thread to show off my scout rifle though. :drinks:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Misc/Scout-1.jpg

[GSPKurt]

What did you have chambered in a .35 whelen. I'm a bit torn right now between a Rem. 750 .35 whelen and a Marlin .338 Marlin Express. Decisions decisions.


Stay away from the Rem. 750. I bought one New Year's Eve, and it's already back at Remington. I shoulda bought a BAR.

[thor32382]

Yondering, thanks for the picture. Its a nice looking rifle what caliber is it?
GSPKurt thanks for the warning you may have just made up my mind. I'm really thinking I'm going to go with a .338 Marlin Express.

[jh45gun]

"Pistol scopes really don't work well as a scout scope. The eye relief is too far out there to work properly. Save up for the Leupold, you won't be sorry."

Disagree I have two scout rifles a 6.5 Swede that I built my own low to the barrel mount based on the old Ashley sytem mount and a K31 using "Darrell's Scout mount" And I have pistol scopes on both of them a 2x on the Swede and a 4X on the K31 just because that 4X came on a pistol I had bought and I did not like the 4 X for the pistol but it works fine on the K31. Both scopes are set up with the illuminated crosshairs too not by choice just happended that both came my way that way. I have no issues at all with them they work fine and I killed several deer with the Swede sofar.

[Lead melter]

I've had a Weaver 2X pistol scope mounted on my M-N M44 for about 5 years. Never changed zero unless I fiddled with it. Longest shot to date was 117 yards on a yearling buck. No problem. Great visibility, low mounting, deer dead. Could have gotten mom too, but 2 deer in one day is too much workup for me.

[hydraulic]

I know this will sound dumb, but what in the world is a "scout rifle".

[Larry Gibson]

I know this will sound dumb, but what in the world is a "scout rifle".

Go to;

http://home.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutrifle.html#What

Lots to read but it gives the basic concept that jeff Cooper proffered.

Larry Gibson

[BABore]

I've got two leverguns set up with scout scopes. Both wear XS mounts and low Warne QD lever rings. I originally started with a Burris 1.75x scout scope. It worked great, but was terrible in low light. Small 26mm objective and long eye relief aren't a good combination for dusk/dawn situations. That setup was transferred from my 450 Marlin, to a seldom used (hunting anyways) 30-30.

The 450 was remounted with a Burris 2-7x35 pistol scope with BallistiPlex reticle. The low Warne rings allow about 0.040" clearance with the XS mount. Can't get much lower than that. A pistol scope may not be ideal for a bolt-gun scout rig, but work fine on a levergun. No eye relief problems what-so-ever.

[Boomer Mikey]

I'm using a Simmons 2X20 IER 1" scope on the rifle in Leupold low "QRW" rings.

This scope is no longer available and it's worked well for me on the Savage 10FCM Scout rifle in 308.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the Burris or Leupold scope either.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7990&d=1215461483

I replaced the factory WGRS rear peep with a Williams FP-110-TK receiver sight with target knobs and installed a Merritt #4 hunting disk with adjustable aperture.

http://www.meritcorporation.com/images/4closed.jpghttp://www.meritcorporation.com/images/4open.jpghttp://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=563581

I leave the disk wide open and adjust it smaller for bright light conditions.

Another interesting scope for this application is a 1x5 power shotgun scope, they have intermediate eye relief as well.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Boomer_Mikey/IMG_0582.jpg?t=1234461609

While not in a true scout configuration this configuration does well on my leverguns.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Boomer_Mikey/IMG_0584.jpg?t=1234461855

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee174/Boomer_Mikey/IMG_0588.jpg?t=1234461937

This Simmons 1.5-6X scope is my favorite scope for the leverguns... no longer in production.

Boomer :Fire:

[BABore]

Boomer,

Might want to check out the Burris FF2 2-7x35 rifle scope with BallistiPlex. I just got my 3rd one for my levers. Perfect size and the reticle sure makes things easy out to 300+ yards. I've also been using the reticle for both hunting and plinker load POI difference. Not a bad scope for $150.

[Boomer Mikey]

Boomer,

Might want to check out the Burris FF2 2-7x35 rifle scope with BallistiPlex. I just got my 3rd one for my levers. Perfect size and the reticle sure makes things easy out to 300+ yards. I've also been using the reticle for both hunting and plinker load POI difference. Not a bad scope for $150.

Yes BA,

That's a great scope; I got one form Midway when they had them on sale but I still like the cheap Simmons better. I have 2 of them.


Boomer :Fire:

[Irascible]

You fellas have any problem with reflections? For years I hunted with an Ithaca Deerslayer which had the Leupold 2X mounted scout style (factory placing). It was fast to get into action, but trying to sight into a darkened area only produced reflections on the ocular lens.

[helice]

I have mounted 3 scout scopes. A Burris on a 98 Mauser, a Weaver H2 handgun scope on a 94 Big Bore and a cheap Nc Star on a beater M96. They all work. You get what you pay for. The big surprise was the Weaver. Their variable handgun scopes have toooo long an eye relief, but the 2x was closes enough to risk it. At 125$ it's a good mid-price scope between steep and cheap. Like Lead Melter, I'm really happy with it. The Cheap Nc Star has been working just fine for about 10 years. I think I paid 50$ for it. It might be a thought to try the concept on a cheap scope. I like the scout scope consept. My shooting buddy hates it. If you like it you can always go to a better optic. If you don't like it you don't have much invested. Keep writing! Helice

[thor32382]

I've seen the NcStar and a couple other cheap scopes. I'm half tempted to try it but, I also realize that sometimes you have to pay for quality. Also, Luepold has an excellent rep.

[pietro]

["Pistol scopes really don't work well as a scout scope. The eye relief is too far out there to work properly. Save up for the Leupold, you won't be sorry."]

I also disagree.

IMO, the reason some folks feel that pistol scopes don't work well, is ergonomics - they haven't looked deeply enough into the technical aspects.

What's not general knowledge, is that Long Eye Relief (LER) scopes (pistol scopes) from different manufacturers - and sometimes different pistol scopes from the same manufacturer - have different eye relief "windows".

An eye relief "window" is the tolerance that your eye can distance from the ocular lens, and still see a full, bright sight picture.

LER scope's "windows" run in ranges like 9" to 17", or 11" to 21", etc.

That doesn't sound like much difference - but when placed in a fixed position on your rifle, it makes a huge difference.
The difference can be as dramatic as seeing either a good sight picture or one shaded or half blacked-out.

You need to actually try different scopes for a full sight picture, then measure each or their distances - or look up their eye relief window specs in the maker's tech info - AFTER first measuring the distance from YOUR shooting eye, with YOUR scout rifle, to where the ocular lens of the scope will position on YOUR rifle.

For me, that's about 10", so I do best with a 9"-17" pistol scope - YMMV.

Once you do that, shop around for a used pistol scope, after checking the companies tech sheets, to narrow down the choices that will work for YOUR ergonomics - eyesight/head size/neck length/rifle.

I had to find this out the hard way - by buying, installing/trying, then selling unwanted scopes. Until I finally found what worked for ME.

I used an XS LeverScout mount on a Marlin, then first tried a Leupold Scout scope (nope), then a Burris Scout scope (nope), then a Weaver Classic Variable pistol scope (nope), and finally a Weaver Classic 2x28 Pistol scope.

My choice has been very satisfactory for me, in all kind of weather, light conditions, and distances within the rifle's cartridge limitations.

I would stay away from the cheap Chinese optics, though they COULD be the Japanese optics of the future. ;)

.

[helice]

If you want to get in contact with Weaver to get tech sheets on their scopes try 1(800) 635-7656. Keep Writing! I'm learning. Helice

[thor32382]

I actually got to handle a Swedish Mauser in a scout scope configuration(the first scout rifle I've seen first hand). It had an NcStar 2-7 on it and it seemed to work well but, it was also looking at stuff in the middle of an overcast day with snow all over the ground. Things could be different when I get the thing in the woods. I'm still torn. I did decide on the rifle I will get a Marlin .338MX. A Remington 750 semi-auto over a levergun, what was I thinking?

[280Ackley]

I have an 1895 45/70 with an x/s scout mount with 1.5 Burris on it. I shoot it with both eyes open. It swings just like a shotgun and I have never had any problems picking up that heavy set of crosshairs even in less than legal light. It's my favorite rifle to use during late season when we are pushing deer and most of the shots are on moving targets. You could probably find a used one if you look around. I saw one on a table at a gun show last weekend.