Case fillers

[Slingshot]

Hello,

I have been reloading lead boolits for pistols for years but have graduated to shooting lead in rifles. I have been reading about fillers in large cases i.e. 45/70, I mainly use Alliant R7 - IMR 4198- AA5744- Now some say use Dacron others say just use tissue paper to hold the powder down :confused:

Here is my questions:
1. is a filler necessary? or is it personal preference?

2. Is tissue paper good enough? If I decide to do it.

3. What advantages are there to using a filler?

4. Is there a chance of pushing the pressures to a dangerous levels by compacting the powder with a filler? Or should it be loose packed into the case?

5. Besides straight wall cases, what about bottleneck calibers? i.e. 303 British, 30/06 Springfield, 7.62x54R,

Thank you in advance,
Jeff / Slingshot :castmine: :drinks:

[R.C. Hatter]

(1) Fillers may not be necessary but they can be of help in some cases, mostly their use depends on the purpose and/or personal preference.
(2) While I have used toilet tissue, I much prefer dacron for its springiness.
(3) Fillers are used to hold a light charge of powder back against the primer to insure complete ignition and avoid hangfires or misfires. A well adjusted filler can also help with bullet base protection as well, especially in using a plain base bullet. The use of filler avoids having to raise the rifle prior to firing to position the powder charge next to the primer for uniformity.
(4) There is always a chance of raising chamber pressures with fillers. Any filler should be left
NOT compacted. The NRA has in its Cast Bullet Handbook, an excellent article on fillers and their uses by E. H. Harrison which may yet be available.
(5) I have personally used dacron filler in my own 03-A3 .30-06 with satisfaction many times.
I use 3/4 to 1 grain by weight of dacron seated lightly on the powder by means of the eraser end of a pencil, or small wood dowel. I have used corn meal in .45/120 with smokeless by filling the case full of meal after charging with powder, then seating a cast bullet which lightly compresses
the meal sufficient that it does NOT intermingle with the powder. Keep in mind that the weight of the meal must be added to the weight of the bullet in order to determine the powder charge.
The powder charge should be a low end smokeless charge suitable for the caliber and weight of meal plus bullet. Mike Venturino wrote an interesting article on meal filler in Handloader Magazine some years back, using a .45/90 Sharps.

Hope this is helpful

[Larry Gibson]

Slingshot



I have been reloading lead boolits for pistols for years but have graduated to shooting lead in rifles. I have been reading about fillers in large cases i.e. 45/70, I mainly use Alliant R7 - IMR 4198- AA5744- Now some say use Dacron others say just use tissue paper to hold the powder down :confused:

Here is my questions:
1. is a filler necessary?

No, fillers with those types of smokeless powder are not "necessary". However, if you want consistant ignition at a useable pressure you'll use a filler. If you want to use less powder you'll use a filler. If you don't want to raise the barrel before every shot to position the powder you'll use a filler. If you want improved accuracy you'll use a filler.

or is it personal preference?

In my case it is indeed "personal preference" because I want all of the benifits a filler gives with cast bullet loads using the fast medium to slower buring powders that do not give 80% loading denstiy. Even at 80% loading density I many times find the filler improves consistency of ignnition and accuracy.

2. Is tissue paper good enough? If I decide to do it.

While tissue paper works ok I've not found tissue paper to be good for two reasons; first is because it is not a good 'filler' if the loads are used from the magazine or subject to rough handling. I've found powder migration to be a problem with such loads and "click......bang" does not suit my fancy. Second is because tissue paper burns. I dislike having to run out in front of my firing position to stomp out fires. The shooters on the left and right get a little preturbed about it also. Tissue does seem to work fine with target loads shot on a sterile range.

3. What advantages are there to using a filler?

Addressed in my first answer.

4. Is there a chance of pushing the pressures to a dangerous levels by compacting the powder with a filler? Or should it be loose packed into the case?

In a recent test of several different fillers/combinations in the 45-70 I found that pressure is increased only slightly when using 2.5 gr of dacron compressed over 25 gr AA5744 under a 413 gr bullet vs when only a 3/4 gr filler was used. Amount of pressure increase was 1,700 psi and still did not exceed the SAAMI MAP for a trapdoor level 45-70 cartridge.

However, with a COW filler instead of the dacron in the load above the pressure (33,000 psi) did exceed the SAAMI MAP (28,000 psi) for a trapdoor level 45-70.
Testing was done with an Oehler M43.

5. Besides straight wall cases, what about bottleneck calibers? i.e. 303 British, 30/06 Springfield, 7.62x54R,

I use dacron fillers in all bottleneck cartridges from .223 to .375H&H when the slower fast burning powders are used (4198, 5744, 4759, 4227, etc.) up through medium and slow burning powders that do not give 80% loading density and then with many of those I still use a dacron filler.

In case you've not noticed I use dacron for a filler and always recommend it's use. In all of my tests it has consistantly proven to be the best filler bar none. It does not burn or melt and poses no danger of starting a fire down range. . It protects the base of the bullet and some believe it acts like a GC. With almost all the powders I use it with it increases the consistency of ignition and enhances accuracy.

I do not use dacron as a wad at all, especially with the fast burning powders. With those I select a powder that gives consistant ignition at the velocity level desired. No wad or filler is used.

The dacron is used only as a filler intended to fill the airspace between powder and the base of the bullet. I use the dacron in chunks of 1/2, 3/4, 1, and 1 1/4 gr. The amount depends on the volume of space to be filled. If you use cast bullet loads of some recoil and feed them from a magazine the use of a proper filler like dacron will prevent migration of powder around and past the filler and prevent hang fires.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

You do not need a filler with those powders. I use a pinch of Dacron with 4759 in the 45-70 but still have not proven to myself that it helps accuracy.
I would not use anything else but Dacron. I buy the garnetted Polyester fiberfill, none of those long, thick strands in it.
You can play with it but don't pack it down, just 1/4" or so below the edge of the neck so a boolit will push it the rest of the way. A pencil is perfect to stuff it in lightly to touch the powder.

[pdawg_shooter]

I prefer powder as a case filler. I choose a powder that will give me as close to 100% load density as possible. But then I paper patch so I dont worry about leading.

[Slingshot]

Hello,

Thank you all for the answers to my questions. I have a few more though :-D

Will Dacron leave any residue behind in the barrel? If yes, can it be swabbed out with say Hoppe's 9? or any other firearm cleaning solvent?

Where can I find Dacron? Hobby store?

Can I use shotshell buffer instead?

Thanks,
Slingshot / Jeff

[JW6108]

Hello,

Thank you all for the answers to my questions. I have a few more though :-D

Will Dacron leave any residue behind in the barrel? If yes, can it be swabbed out with say Hoppe's 9? or any other firearm cleaning solvent?

Where can I find Dacron? Hobby store?

Can I use shotshell buffer instead?

Thanks,
Slingshot / Jeff

There will be very little residue from Dacron; even if what seems to be a large amount is used for some reason, the excess will be blown out the muzzle.

I use polyfill (generic Dacron) that I got at Wal-mart; a bag big enough to stuff a pretty large pillow was $3 and some change. A bargain, considering all the good things it does for you.

I haven't used shotshell buffer, so can't answer for that either way. Enjoy.

[Larry Gibson]

Here's a picture of a group I shot today using the dacron filler. It took 8 shots to get the rifle zeroed into the 10/X ring then note the 10 shot group taking out the top half of the Xring (100 yards BTW). For a complete report read my thread on the GB 311291 in the Finn M39 7.62x54R on the GB cast bullet results forum. That's what dacron can do with just normal loads and normal cast bullet loading procedures. It's really not necessary to use witch craft or get anal (contrary to some opinions) to get very good results with cast bullets. Those 9 shots in the top half of the X ring are a 1.3" group and I pulled the 10th shot down and away for the 10 at 3:30 under the number 10. Overall 10 shot group size is 2" and that's with the issue sights on the M39 not a scope. Just follow the basics in cast bullet loading.

No, the dacron does not leave any residue in the barrel.

Larry Gibson

[mooman76]

You can use drier lint just like the Poly fil and it's FREE. My way of doing my part to recycle!