need help with a bible verse

[redneckdan]

I'm studying luke 22 36, some of you might already be familiar with it. Has anyone else looked indepth at this verse? what is your "take" on it? Any resources you can recommend?

[shooter2]

Luke 22:21-38

[2.] They must now expect that their enemies would be more fierce upon them than they had been, and they would need magazines as well as stores: He that has no sword wherewith to defend himself against robbers and assassins (2 Cor 11:26) will find a great want of it, and will be ready to wish, some time or other, that he had sold his garment and bought one. This is intended only to show that the times would be very perilous, so that no man would think himself safe if he had not a sword by his side. But the sword of the Spirit is the sword which the disciples of Christ must furnish themselves with. Christ having suffered for us, we must arm ourselves with the same mind (1 Peter 4:1), arm ourselves with an expectation of trouble, that it may not be a surprise to us, and with a holy resignation to the will of God in it, that there may be no opposition in us to it: and then we are better prepared than if we had sold a coat to buy a sword. The disciples hereupon enquire what strength they had, and find they had among them two swords (v. 38), of which one was Peter's. The Galileans generally travelled with swords. Christ wore none himself, but he was not against his disciples' wearing them. But he intimates how little he would have them depend upon this when he saith, It is enough, which some think is spoken ironically: "Two swords among twelve men! you are bravely armed indeed when our enemies are now coming out against us in great multitudes, and every one with a sword!" Yet two swords are sufficient for those who need none, having God himself to be the shield of their help and the sword of their excellency, Deut 33:29.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)

Luke 22:36

Luke 22:36


Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

[He that hath no sword] DR. PEARCE supposes the the word machairan, sword, has been inserted here from what is said in Luke 22:38, as it is evident our Lord never intended to make any resistance, or to suffer a sword to be used on the occasion; see Matt 26:52. The word stands rather oddly in the passage: the verse, translated in the order in which it stands, is as follows: And he who hath none, let him sell his garment and buy-a sword. Now it is plain that the verb pooleesatoo, let him buy, may be referred to peeran, a script, in the former part of the verse: therefore if, according to the doctor's opinion, the word sword be omitted, the passage may be understood thus: "When I sent you out before, Luke 10:1, etc., I intended you to continue itinerants only for a few days, and to preach the Gospel only to your countrymen; therefore you had but little need of a staff, purse, or scrip, as your journey was neither long nor expensive; but now I am about to send you into all the world, to preach the Gospel to every creature; and, as ye shall be generally hated and persecuted for my sake, ye shall have need to make every prudent provision for your journey; and so necessary will it be for you to provide yourselves victuals, etc., for your passage through your inhospitable country, that, if any of you have no scrip or wallet, he should sell even his upper garment to provide one."

Others, who are for retaining the word sword, think that it was a proverbial expression, intimating a time of great difficulty and danger, and that now the disciples had need to look to themselves, for his murderers were at hand. The reader will observe that these words were spoken to the disciples just before he went to the garden of Gethsemane, and that the danger was now so very near that there could be no time for any of them to go and sell his garment in order to purchase a sword to defend himself and his Master from the attack of the Jewish mob.

Judea was at this time, as we have already noticed, much infested by robbers: while our Lord was with his disciples, they were perfectly safe, being shielded by his miraculous power. Shortly they must go into every part of the land, and will need weapons to defend themselves against wild beasts, and to intimidate wicked men, who, if they found them totally defenseless, would not hesitate to make them their prey, or take away their life. However the matter may be understood, we may rest satisfied that these swords were neither to be considered as offensive weapons, nor instruments to propagate the truth. The genius and spirit of the Christian religion is equally against both. Perhaps, in this counsel of our Lord, he refers to the contention about supremacy: as if he had said, Instead of contending among yourselves about who shall be the greatest, ye have more need to unite yourselves against the common enemy, who are now at hand: this counsel was calculated to show them the necessity of union among themselves, as their enemies were both numerous and powerful.


(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Dan, These are the two commentaries that I usually refer to when I am studing the bible. My interpretation has always been that the Twelve Apostles (and other disciples) would find themselves persecuted for preaching that Christ was the Messiah and they should protect themselves. However, I do not think any of them ever used the sword for protection. Certainly nothing that would indicate that in scripture. Eleven of the twelve died as Martyrs. Only John died a natural death in old age.
(Note: The Matthew Henry Commentary should read V38, not V3-Smilie face. For some reason it is being interpreted as such. Bob)

[felix]

This is a tough one because the real fight is a spiritual one, and not a physical one. Goes into the physical realm of "damn if you do, damn if you don't". "how much is too much?", "half full, or half empty". The spiritual answer comes from "those who live by the sword, die by the sword". The Church's simplistic answer follows the concepts of Faith, Hope, and Charity in that order of dependence. ... felix

[redneckdan]

what brought up this versus was last night at my IVCF meeting, we had a speaker from World Vision who talked about the genocide in rawanda and seria leaone. World Vision goes in after the mass murder and puts things back together. I raised the question of why not help these people to defend themselves and prevent the mass genocide in the first place. At the root of every case of genocide is an unarmed populus being stomped by an armed one; the holocaust, albania, rawanda, the list goes on...

I wonder, why two swords in the verse, instead of one or eleven (no twelveth cause judas had run to the pharasiees at that point)? Maybe it was a case of the apostle "showing off" their armament, kinda like we tend to do at the range and two of the apostles got their swords out before jesus said "enough" ie knock it off, now is not the place. My only doubt about this is that in every translation and even in the original greek, there is no exclamation point after the statement. What is the difference between That is enough. / That is enough! ? I believe the first would be a statement like "that is sufficent" ex: you ask your huntin buddy "do you thing 100rds is sufficent?" he replies "that is enough." The second seems more like a rebuke. ex two kids fighting on the play ground and the teacher runs over shouting "that is enough!". If this incident was drastic enough that it deserved a rebuke, I'm sure the exlamation point would have been written there.

A lot of pacifist seem to quote the verse Matthew 5:39 "But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Why does the scripture specificly state "the right cheek"? I think it is ment to imply and insult. Think about it, most of the people in the world are right handed, to hit the right check of a person facing you, you would have to use the back of your right hand. Back in that time and all the way up through the civil war, it was deemed an insult to "slap" another mans right cheek with the back of your right hand. I beleive that this verse is stating that if some one insults you, you do not return words or further excalate the situation. It does not mean that you cannot defend your self against a physical attack.

1John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Say for instance, you come upon a young woman about to be raped by a man. You could go up and tell the guy to knock it off, this seems to be where most pacifists would stop, they guy might listen more than likely not. Is this really laying ones life down for another? you could just turn and walk away and try to forget the whole thing. But if you were to draw your sword (1911) and say "stop or I shoot", you are really putting your life on the line, now the bad guy must reckon with you before he can think about continuing his deed. Which seems more like "laying down one's life for another"?

I gotta run to class, I look forward to continuing this discussion.

[Spud]

I'm studying luke 22 36, some of you might already be familiar with it. Has anyone else looked indepth at this verse? what is your "take" on it? Any resources you can recommend?


My $.02 - I think Jesus was simply reminding his disciples that while they walked with Him for three or so years that their every need was taken care of, but that in the not-so-distant future they were going to have to take care of their own needs(money bag, knapsack), including protection(sword). According to the notes in my study Bible, the swords referred to were shorter weapons, more like a long knife, with uses other than protection, maybe akin to a folding hunter, and commonly carried. Just prior to this conversation Jesus had settled a dispute with His disciples about which one of them would be the greatest, then chided Peter about his pride problem, reminding him that very soon he would deny Christ. Therefore, I believe Jesus was being very practical in verses 35-38, but YMMV.

[felix]

Yes, Peter was picked as the first Pope because of his enthusiasm was so overwhelming that it exhibited what we would call a bi-polar personality today. ... felix

[grumble]

Seems pretty clear to me. It's the New Testiment's 11th Commandment:

"Thou shall pack heat."

[carpetman]

I think this is how the Army got started. Those guys like to run around in forrests and jungles naked with a tank in both hands or whatever it is they do in the Army.

[bruce drake]

Carpetman,

May God bless you in your endeavors in the Army Air Corps. Pretty soon you guys will be coming back to the fold like a prodigal son.

Bruce Drake
Captain, US Army
Ordnance Corps

[Spud]

Seems pretty clear to me. It's the New Testiment's 11th Commandment:

"Thou shall pack heat."

Did a NT search and couldn't come up with THAT one. :) Don't believe Jesus was "commanding" the disciples to "pack heat" or even specifically "recommending" they do so. He was simply telling them that they would soon be taking care of this necessary aspect of their lives (protection), themselves. OTOH, he wasn't denying them that right, either.

[Scrounger]

I think this is how the Army got started. Those guys like to run around in forrests and jungles naked with a tank in both hands or whatever it is they do in the Army.

At least they don't bring a sheep with them...

[grumble]

Did a NT search and couldn't come up with THAT one. :) Don't believe Jesus was "commanding" the disciples to "pack heat" or even specifically "recommending" they do so. He was simply telling them that they would soon be taking care of this necessary aspect of their lives (protection), themselves. OTOH, he wasn't denying them that right, either.

Ahh, humor. 'Tis a wonderous thing. And oft unappreciated.

[Spud]

Ahh, humor. 'Tis a wonderous thing. And oft unappreciated.

Naw-ww, I thought your "packin' heat' comment was hilarious. BTW, do I remember you from "Shooter's Talk" days? Sure do miss that one. I definitely learned a lot there.

[grumble]

Huh-oh. You mean there's someone with a memory out there? <GGG> That's scary. With my CRS, I can barely remember this morning, much less way back to the Shooters' days!

[sundog]

If you have no sword, sell your robe and buy one. It has two edges. Keep them both sharp. sundog

[grumble]

If you have no sword, sell your robe and buy one. It has two edges. Keep them both sharp. sundog

I don't think that would go over too well. Nobody wants armed streakers running around. And,. with two sharp edges, I can envision some real problems with the injuries a streaker would likely get.

[Spud]

Huh-oh. You mean there's someone with a memory out there? <GGG> That's scary. With my CRS, I can barely remember this morning, much less way back to the Shooters' days!

I just recently made the big six-oh. I don't feel so bad! :-)

[grumble]

Well, when I get old, I won't feel bad either!! <GGG>

Spud, did you happen to grow up neart Oklahoma City? Knew a guy named Spud there many years ago.

[gutshot_again]

I don't think that would go over too well. Nobody wants armed streakers running around. And,. with two sharp edges, I can envision some real problems with the injuries a streaker would likely get.

Adds a whole new meaning to concealed carry.

[Spud]

Well, when I get old, I won't feel bad either!! <GGG>

Spud, did you happen to grow up neart Oklahoma City? Knew a guy named Spud there many years ago.


No, I'm an Idaho Spud :-) Moved here a year and a half ago from Kalif.

[KCSO]

I sure couldn't comment on Luke, but at this weekends gun show I got a good demonstration of Matthew 25 : I was a stranger and he took me in!

[waksupi]

I sure couldn't comment on Luke, but at this weekends gun show I got a good demonstration of Matthew 25 : I was a stranger and he took me in!

Jim, that reminds me of the sign we used to see on gunshow tables around here.

"We screwed the last guy, so we could pass the savings along to you!"