Lebel

[KCSO]

I was going to order some 348 Winchester for reforming, most to go to 8mm Lebel, and Midway no longer has any. In the process of searching I found out that Graf's has 8mm Lebel brass in stock so I ordered up a hundred rounds. I have heard that the cases need sorting so this order will tell. I am down to about 75 good Lebel cases made from 348 so I hope that the Graff's stuff will prove worth the cost.

I picked up another Lebel at the gun show this weekend and am cleaning and lapping the bore now. Someone must have loved this old gun because they carved fish scale checkering and a flower on the stock. If it shoots anywhere near as well as our other French rifles I will be well pleased. It is really revealing to take a Lebel and a Trapdoor out plinking for an afternoon. It is easy to see why the Lebel started the furor. Grazing range is at least tripled with the Lebel. For as clumbsy as they look the Lebel is a remarkably good handling and shooting weapon. I just wish the French has put real sights on the gun. I actually prefer the Lebel to the Berthier.

[Ricochet]

Nice find!

I stayed away from the gun show here over the weekend. Trying to avoid temptation.

Those Lebel cases are funny looking little fat things. I maintain that there's nothing new about the "short Magnums." They're throwbacks to the 1886 Lebel.

[hydraulic]

KCSO: So you're the one who bought that Lebel from what's his name from Veridgre.

[rocklock]

I've wanted one for a long time but I've never found a Lebel in decent shape.So far I've settled for 2 Berthier carbines.

[KCSO]

Thats Lebelie to you.

Yes I offered to load bullets for him, but if I re form them from 348 I have to get $1.00 apiece for them ad he wanted a regular 8 mm. I guess we are lucky he didn't try shooting a mauser round in the Lebel.

[hydraulic]

There are 2 syllables in Lebel, so the correct aberation would be Lebie.

[KCSO]

I got my Graf's brass in and I am very well satisfied. Out of 100 brass i had to discard one for a out of center flash hole. The cases were just a tad shot at 1.82 to 1.86 with 1900 Kynoch at 1.90. The cases will need to be fire formed and trimmed to a standard leangth, but I have had wors variation on brass marked W or R. I quick loaded up 20 cases for fire forming and filled them with my favorite Lebel load of 12.5 of Red Dot and a Lee bullet for the M95 that weighed out at 204 with lube and gas check. From a standing rest at 25 yards I put the first thre into one ragged .75 hole. I then passed the gun to a friend and he put 3 more into the same group for a total of .90 six shots iron sights. I love it when yu can take a 100+ year old gun and make it shoot like that. This same load with open iron sights will group 5 under 2" at 100 yards so I am dying to get out and see what the gun will do. I will probably put on the Redding peep tomorrow. The gun is a sporter and has a carved stock so no valuable historic item is going to be ruined. The gun now has a redfield band front sight and the factory rear sight. The peep is a consession to my aging eyeballs and will be used mostly for hunting.

[KCSO]

I couldn't stand it

Here is the gun and the target The Kynoch load is to the right and the cast load to the left. The Redding sight is in between.

[Buckshot]

................Nice looking old rifle. There were a BUNCH of those in the first 'Mummy' movie a few years back. I thought at that time it'd be nice to have one. Pretty nice shooting too, BTW.

..................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

If they shoot that good then the French must be blind AND smelly/arrogant/etc/etc/etc.

[Frank46]

Buckshot, did,nt springfield sporters have a bunch of those before they re organized. Seem to remember seeing a bunch of them in one ad in shotgun news. frank

[KCSO]

Did you notice that Rick was shooting his Lebel as a single shot, just like he would have been trained to do. If they had opened up the cut off's and fired off a magazine apiece they should have wiped out the arabs. The only detriment to french rifles is the lack of a safety. It is a pita to make a good safety for them and I don't trust them as a field gun withour a safe. The original french sights are a worthless guttersnipe system and so I don't shoot any of Dad's unmodified rifles. I did run into a little snag on the Graf's brass. The Graf's brass has the same rim diameter as the ture Lebel and is 5 thou. larger than the 348 converted cases so I had to use a 50-70 shell holder rather than the 348 shell holder I had been using. Might be good to know before you start to reload.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, did,nt springfield sporters have a bunch of those before they re organized. Seem to remember seeing a bunch of them in one ad in shotgun news. frank

...............Could have:veryconfu. Without painting myself as pussywhipped in everyone's eyes, the last couple years I had my FFL I had to give up my subscripstions to the SGN and the Gun List. They made me a nervous and immature wreak. It was a matter of personal self preservation and the continuance of marital bliss. I hope all here who are married in the 'real world' understand?

Women just don't understand. About a year ago my cousin and his son had been having great fun pig hunting in the Santa Ana River bottoms. You have to use a bow or a shotgun. They invited me to go. I wasn't gonna use no bow! I have a Lefever 12 ga double but I wanted a Savage bolt action (visions of gleaming brass Mag-Tech 12 gs hulls stuffed with MOJO lead boolits danced in my noggin).

I kind of mentioned in passing about Fred's suggestion I go pig hunting with him and James, and that I might need to buy a shotgun.

"Why do you have to buy a shotgun? You mean NONE of your guns will work"?

You have to imagine the cadence and inflection used in the deliverance of the above. By now I am looking at my toes.

"No, they won't. You have to have a shotgun." (Feeble)

"I thought you had a shotgun?" (Warming to the attack, sensing the upper hand)

"I do, honey (trying for a little equalibrium here) but it's the wrong kind".

"Wrong kind? How many kinds are there"? (totally uninterested in actually knowing. It's just a female question thing)

"Couple, but mines the wrong kind". (More feeble, I can't look up)

"How many guns do you have?"

"You mean like rifles and pistols seperately, or just all together?" (Maybe she'll have pity on an idiot? Worth a try.)

"...............Nothing, silence...................just doing that wife stare thing. You know, where you feel like a boob?................"

" Well, I suppose if you just HAVE to have a new one. Go ahead. I just can't believe that not one of those you already have won't work." (If you buy one you're a dead man)

....................So I dont have one.

..................Buckshot

[KCSO]

A fellow I know actually used this...

Him " Well I think I am going to have to get a new shotgun".

Her "Why you just got one a couple of years ago!"

Him "Well look here in the barrel, there's not a bit of rifling left".

Her "Your right honey it's as smooth as can be, you better get a new one".

Sometimes ignorance is BLISS!

[Frank46]

Rick, well went to a gun show down here. But for the first time in almost 23 years my wife went with me. The kids are in college so's we have some free time. And darn it, would'nt you know it the first table I hit had the cz-50's for $269. No way did I have the opportunity to whip out the plastic and say gimme one. Last time she went with me she was pregnant with our first daughter. THAT show turned out awesome. Picked up a hi-wall action with harry pope 22rf bbl for $40bucks. Yeah I know, youse guys is now saying Frank has been sniffing the Butch's bore cleaner again. But $40 bucks was it. The dealer had abunch of winchesters sitting there all with no wood. Shoulda bought a couple 94's for the actions. Frank

[Ricochet]

There are 2 syllables in Lebel, so the correct aberation would be Lebie.
So, those who shoot them are Lebians?

[hydraulic]

I believe Lebites would be correct. Rhymes with bug bites. Those who shoot Winnies would be Winians.

[Frank46]

What would you call those who shoot kropatcscheks? Try saying that three times fast either sober or with a few malt beverages under your belt. Frank

[KCSO]

Say it, heck!

I use to live next to them in Loma. As to Lebites, aren't they one of the 12 tribes ? I quit I promise to painstakingly type Argentine ever time...

[shooter575]

Say it, heck!

I use to live next to them in Loma. As to Lebites, aren't they one of the 12 tribes ? I quit I promise to painstakingly type Argentine ever time...

KCSO that is bad. Funny but bad.....

[Frank46]

KSCO, C.E.Harris did an article some years back and it was on the 348 win ctg. I believe he used three rifles. Kropatschek, Lebel, and Moisin. Of the three only the moisin was a single shot. The other two were repeaters. Frank

[hydraulic]

KCSO: Grammarians world wide thank you as we lay to rest the abominable Argie. Now let us turn our wrath upon all other cuteisms; Winnie, Remmie, Springie, et cetra, et al, ad naseum.

[NVcurmudgeon]

hydraulic, I could not be more in agreement with you regarding cuteisms. As you might suspect from my handle, I tend to consider firearms, ammunition, and automobiles as mechanical devices worthy of respect. I would add to your list, "trannie," "pill," and the never-was .45 "Long" Colt.

[KCSO]

Now for another fight. Military records from the 1880's show requisitions for the 45 Colt (LONG). This was due to the fact that the 45 S and W Schoefield (short) also fit in the Colt revolver. By adding the designation long and short to the orders the poor supply officer was more likely to get what he wanted. In the civilian market the 45 Colt round was loaded to a higher velocity than the 45 Schoefield. I have chronographed black powder rounds at as high as 900 fps vrs. 750 for the military loads. It is therefore somewhat logical that a person wanting the higher powered round would specify the LONG round. So, although Colt never designated the round the LONG Colt to a certian extent the public did. As the American/English language is and has been a constantly evolving language with word dropping in and out of favor with each generation there may be some slight precedent for the LONG terminology. Personally I just call them the big uns and let it go at that.

[45 2.1]

There are quite a few full boxes that are marked short and long in cartridge collections from that period.