38 Load...

[jdgabbard]

Ok, so I've decided to give Bullseye another chance. I didn't get great accuracy with it last time. But that was back when I first started loading my own. And at the time it was with J-word Boolits.

So I've decided to give it a shot with my 158 TL-SWCs. They typically cast at 160g, and Lyman's data for a 160g boolit is 3.2g.

My question is, those of you who have used this load what kind of accuracy did you get from it? Issues with leading? What velocity did you get if you ran it under a chrony?

Currently I've loaded up a box of 50 with "universal Rifle/Pistol Lube" that I pan lubed them with. 1 part beeswax, 1 part parafin .5 part vaseline. But I also have plenty of LLA. Anybody use a similar lube?

Just trying to get an Idea as to what I should be expecting next week when I go to the range. I'd go tomorrow, but its still too cold and icy and wet here in northern Oklahoma.

[Larry Gibson]

Besides many thousands of WCs loaded over 2.7 gr of Bullseye for police revolver matches I also have loaded thousands of commercial cast and 358477s over 4 gr of Bullseye to duplicate the standard service/factory load. Velocity is 840 fps from my 5" M15, accuracy is excellent and I've gotten no leading from my own cast bullets lubed with Javelina or from commercial cast delubed and relubed with Javelina or LLA. Commercial cast bullets with the hard wax lube almost always lead to some degree or other.

Lyman lists 4.2 gr Bullseye as max for a 168 gr 358429 cast of linotype. I would suggest working up to 4 gr with your bullet. I've no idea how your home made lube will perform but the LLA correctly applied should perform well giving little or no leading providing the alloy is correct and the sixing, if any is correct.

Larry Gibson

[jdgabbard]

I've loaded a similar load before. It was with Meister 158g SWC (and their hard blue wax lube) over 4.0g of Unique. Accuracy was fair, leading was minor. I am assuming that this going to be about the same, but hoping that mine will be a bit more accurate. The lube recipe is the "Old NRA Formula".

The Meister Boolits are about 18 BHN I believe, and I think the leading was due to the load not having enough pressure to "bump up" the boolit while in the bore. My boolits are as cast WW + 0.5 tin. So I am guessing a BHN of about 11-12. And the lube is not too hard, it can be easily deformed with the fingers. And is a little tacky. Never used it before, just seamed like a fairly easy lube to make so I figured I'd give it a try.

[fecmech]

My experience is similar to Larry Gibson. I use the H&G #39 158 gr RN over 4.2 grs of Bullseye out of a K-38. Velocity crowds 900 fps and accuracy is slightly less than 2" on average at 50 yds. I have tried the Lyman 358429 with that load but it does better with the old standby of 5.0 Unique. I run ACWW boolits with Magma or Rooster hard lubes. IMO it's hard to beat Bullseye with cast in the .38 spl or .45 auto

[AzShooter]

My standard load for USPSA and ICORE revolver competition has been 3.8 grains of Bullseye. It works great, shoots about 1 1/2 inches at 25 from the bench in my gun.

Reloading cartridges quickly is important in both of these sports and Bullseye keeps the cylinder cleaner than many other powders. You will see smoke on the gun but it does not leave unburn powder to get under the star. It's also very easy to clean off.

4 grains gave me an average of 843 fps.

[HeavyMetal]

I read your post twice and did not see where you mentioned type of firearm you are using.

Accuracy is more than just the right load, it also requires a "delivery" system capable of justifing the loads potential.

The 38 Special is a great example. This round is chambered in pistols from overunder derringers ( which I own) to 8 inch revolvers and, of course, the well known S&W model 52.

Expecting the derringer to shoot as well as the model 52 is simply unrealistic, yet both are 38 Specials!

So before anyone can make a suggestion as to the type of performance you should expect from your gun give us some details on it. You may have a 2 inch dick special that thinks it an Officers Model Colt ( had a buddy with one of these and he wouldn't part with it) or you could have a K 38 that simply won't break 3 inches at 20 yards! Seen two of those!


With the all the details informed suggestions can be made for all your questions.

[jdgabbard]

HeavyMetal, the firearm in question is a S&W 65 with a 4" barrel.

AZ, thats why I'm wanting to try the Bullseye again. I remember it was pretty clean burning. And I've come to determine that Unique is just too dirty for me. I've worked that previous load up to 4.4 grains and didn't find any better accuracy then the starting load. Which grouped at about 2 1/2" at 15 yards. Which was probably the limit of my ability. And I also found that I always had unburned powder left in the empty cases and cylinder.

The load was ok, but I did get leading like I mentioned before. My major concern with this load is keeping that level of accuracy with this load, while eliminating leading. I know the LLA will reduce the leading to a point where it probably won't be an issue, however has anyone used the "Old NRA Lube?" Did it perform for you at this velocity?

[fecmech]

"Old NRA Lube?" Did it perform for you at this velocity?

Just about anything works at this velocity. If you consider Unique "dirty" wait till you fire 100 rds with the old NRA lube. The lube works great, it's just the gun will be a sooty sticky mess after a hundred rounds.

[GrizzLeeBear]

The Meister boolits may have indeed been to hard for 38 spl loads. Did you measure their diameter? Slugged your bore? Being commercial boolits, they may also be a little under sized for your bore. If they are .357 - .358 and your bore its .358+ you would expect a little leading. Your boolits sized to .001 over bore (groove) dia. with the better lube (commercial lubes tend to be to "hard") should reduce or elminate the leading.

[jdgabbard]

Just about anything works at this velocity. If you consider Unique "dirty" wait till you fire 100 rds with the old NRA lube. The lube works great, it's just the gun will be a sooty sticky mess after a hundred rounds.

Reminds me of the Meister Load. That lube was nasty. About every 50 rounds I'd have to clean my gun. It was nasty. And don't even think about not giving it a thorough cleaning as soon as you get home. Wait one day, and you'll be working on it for 3. Not to mention that stuff smoked pretty bad as well. Guys next to me thought I was shooting BP.

Ok, so Old NRA is messy, and probably smokes. LLA is messy on dies and smokes. Whatever that stuff that Meister uses is the same. So what is out there that doesn't smoke much / if any. And isn't too terribly messy?

[AzShooter]

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

The carnuba red doesn't smoke and stays put.

Rooster Red is pretty good in the lack of smoke but you loose some velocity with it.

Newest lube I'm using is http://lbtmoulds.com/lube.shtml. The LBT Blue stays put. I do need to heat it up in my Star sizer with a lamp Next time I'll order Blue Soft.

[jdgabbard]

Heard Blue Soft was about the same hardness as LTB Blue, as in both need a heat source.

I may end up trying the Carnuba Red. I've thought about it a couple of times. And next time I get some LLA, I'm just gonna buy the Xlox.

[HeavyMetal]

S&W model 65? Isn't this the 4 inch fixed sight model 10 in stainless steel?

If it is I think your correct in figuring you getting the max out of an unmodified pistol. S&W barrels are usually 1 turn in like 18 3/4 inch or so.

I have found these barrels like 150 grain swc's better than the 158's don't know why just know the three fixed sight smith's I've had all seemed to prefer that boolit weight. Suspect they move a little faster with the same powder charge and maybe stablize a little better?

This is simply awag!

I have also been useing Carnuba red and don't have a smoke or leading issue. Your cleaning issue is one reason I ran from Javalina lube and every other 50-50 alox mix on the market, they just didn't get it done!

[jdgabbard]

Heavy, Your correct on everything but the model. Its the stainless version of the model 13. And is probably one of the most beloved duty guns in all of "cop-land". Chances are that if they worked the streets in the 1970-80s they had a high probability of having one of these on the hip.

I can say I've not played with the 150 grainers. Thought about buying a 148 WC mold next. But haven't made up my mind on what to get next. Really ought to just buy a die set for one of my milsurps. But I may go ahead and see what I can find in the way of 148-150g boolits. I been needing a GC mold for my magnum loads anyways.

[cajun shooter]

jdgaggard, A fine revolver that I have in the 3in bbl version. It was an issue gun at one time. And you are right about the time period as I was the Knight in shiney Armorer that was going to save the world. You should try the White Label BAC for your revolver loads. It's the only handgun lube that I now use. If you don't have the 358156 or the 358665 molds they both work well with the 156 being a GC. By the way, the 65 is also my bed gun.

[AzShooter]

Lee makes a great looking 150 grain.38 cal bullet mould. I bought the 6 banger so that my casting sessions go fast. I cast up 300 bullets in 20 minutes with this mould. With a 2 cavity mould I'd go nuts.