Looking for Mil-Surp advice

[Marlin Junky]

I think I would like to pick up a 7x57 military Mauser but I'm not aware of the pitfalls. There seems to be quite a lot of old 7x57's out there and I was wondering if they all have the same 9.5". I'd prefer a high quality Mauser with a slower twists that would be better for HV with up to 140-150 grain boolits?

MJ

[Scrounger]

No choice in mil-surps as far as I know... The gun was designed around the popular loading of the day which almost exclusively mandated 175 grain bullets, or whatever the gram equivalent is...

[Marlin Junky]

That's pretty much what I expected but what about bore/groove diameters and number of groove configurations. Are some of these barrels are better for HV than others?

MJ

[docone31]

I love milsurp bolt guns. Clunky, need cleaning, large bores. I have several. I like beating the odds with them.
My Mausers all love paper.
I can compensate for size with paper weight.
We are talking High Velocity here. Better accuracy than jacketeds.
Wrapping that 7 X 57 ought to be a snap. My milsurps were inexpensive, clunky, lousey triggers. They are my gems today. I have one factory rifle, and I barely shoot it. Those milsurps have Pizzaz. Take some getting used to.

[Shiloh]

I think I would like to pick up a 7x57 military Mauser but I'm not aware of the pitfalls. There seems to be quite a lot of old 7x57's out there and I was wondering if they all have the same 9.5". I'd prefer a high quality Mauser with a slower twists that would be better for HV with up to 140-150 grain boolits?

MJ

I thought that the 7x57 Mausers were 1 in 8.66" also rounded up to 1:9.0

There was a thread a while back about RPM considerations in cast boolits. My surplus .30's with 1:10 have better accuracy below 1650 fps. There may be what you are looking for in the link below.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=39531&highlight=twist+speed

Shiloh

[Marlin Junky]

I thought that the 7x57 Mausers were 1 in 8.66" also rounded up to 1:9.0

There was a thread a while back about RPM considerations in cast boolits. My surplus .30's with 1:10 have better accuracy below 1650 fps. There may be what you are looking for in the link below.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=39531&highlight=twist+speed

Shiloh

You're probably right about the twist being less than 9". I got the 9.5" value from modern American barrel manufacturer's catalogs. However, twist alone will not guarantee a particular level of accuracy at a particular velocity when the number of grooves and their depth are allowed to vary all over the place. Maybe I'm getting in over my head with the Mil-Surp 7x57's but it would be interesting to learn what barrel configurations were attached to those old Mauser actions. Come to think of it, those old guns may not be suited to a constant diet of 40+K PSI loads.

MJ

[Gerry N.]

You're probably right about the twist being less than 9". I got the 9.5" value from modern American barrel manufacturer's catalogs. However, twist alone will not guarantee a particular level of accuracy at a particular velocity when the number of grooves and their depth are allowed to vary all over the place. Maybe I'm getting in over my head with the Mil-Surp 7x57's but it would be interesting to learn what barrel configurations were attached to those old Mauser actions. Come to think of it, those old guns may not be suited to a constant diet of 40+K PSI loads.

MJ

I've had all sorts of military rifles in 7x57 and all of 'em handled the Lee 7mm bullet cast in wheelweight metal quite well. I kept the velocity low and had no problems.

Braz. M1908, Spanish M93, Spanish M1916, Rem Rolling Block with no Country named. All liked the Lee 7mm bullet and Unique.

Gerry N.

[Bret4207]

My favorite rainy day/beater rifle is an ratty old '93 7x57 in a Bishop stock. 100% reliable, decent trigger, loves 160 jacketed, has a Williams recv'r sight and military front. I've had good results with the RCBS 7mmx168 FN. Snagged it cheap off Ebay, it's a special order otherwise. The Lyman Loverin287405 also worked good shooting it as cast and hand lubed with the GC snapped on. We didn't have tumble lube back then!

[runfiverun]

m.j. i have had a few humbling experiences with the old mausers..
the 7x57 is my favorite cartridge though.
they are centered around the heavy bullet and as such they are throated around them.
look in the bbl's closley,as some were cleaned to oblivion and others were not cleaned into a worse state.
they do have a fast twist, but so do most factory rifles in this caliber.

[Larry Gibson]

Marlin Junky

"I'd prefer a high quality Mauser"

A Chilean M95 is the best choice there. There are many of them around still in excellent condition with excellent bores. Of course the price for them will reflect their excellent condition. Sorry, but all milsurps have the 9.5" twist as that was "standard" for the 7x57".

Larry Gibson

[Junior1942]

The three fresh dimples to the right of the 5 1/2" mark in the photo below were put there at 141 yards with the 154 gr Hornady jacketed from a $50 1923 born M93 Spanish Mauser in 7x57--using a 2x pistol scope in scout mode!!!

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/photos/m9310t.jpg

[Bret4207]

Marlin Junky

"I'd prefer a high quality Mauser"

A Chilean M95 is the best choice there. There are many of them around still in excellent condition with excellent bores. Of course the price for them will reflect their excellent condition. Sorry, but all milsurps have the 9.5" twist as that was "standard" for the 7x57".

Larry Gibson

Hmmm, seems I know the whereabouts of a chopped Chilean for cheap:mrgreen:. Why do you have to give me ideas Larry!?:roll:

[docone31]

One of the favouratables I made once,
I had a Turk, popped in a Swede 6.5 X 55 barrel, it fits right in, bent the bolt put on all the original wood, added a Timney, and receiver sight.
Wowser. Sweet shooting rifle.
Wish I still had it. I added a field recoil pad and it was easy to fire.

[Marlin Junky]

Long throats, fast twists... looks like I'm barking up the wrong tree. I'm thinking a .270 might be better suited for my requirements.

MJ

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/93DF7AC146DC001/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/FAE697FAF99DE7A/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/D3A7BD464EE81B6/standard.jpg

M1908 Brazilian Contract made by DWM. To think that in the mid-90's you could buy them just like this for $79 all day long. THis is the way it came out of the box.

http://www.fototime.com/B441C5D527F28FE/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/2FB2F944DB75ADF/standard.jpg

M1912 Chilean short rifle, made by Steyr. The Infantry rifle was a close duplicate of the M1908 Brazilian.

http://www.fototime.com/61730AD8CAD7A35/standard.jpg

M1895 Chilean short rilfe and carbine. I don't have a photo of the M95 Infantry rifle. I also have a Remington M1897 rollingblock in 7x57 but alas no picture at the moment. I'm afraid that both these shorter Chileans have had the crap shot out of them as both have fairly casual bores, although I haven't shot them with jacketed ammo.

There were a few other So. American Mauser rifles made for the 7x57 at a later date. I believe the Brazilians also obtained some in 1935?

All these were of very high quality, and if you fined one with a good barrel it WILL shoot. Of the ex-military rifles I have in 7x57 the 3 outstanding shooters are also the ones with the best barrels. These are the M1908 Brazilian, M1912 Steyr and the M1897 Rem RB.

http://www.fototime.com/51033A5247B82E1/standard.jpg

The above 2 targets were fired with the "As Issued" M1908 Brazilian at 50 yards with the RCBS 7MM-168, which weighed 172gr dressed. Pretty much the 7mm Mauser's design ballistics. The Steyr and the Remington will do about as well even though the rolling block has a trigger that almost requires a come along. The above groups were fired as an experiment and nothing special was done. The boolits were visually inspected, the brass was merely 20 cases that were for that rifle, and were sized and ready to load.

The M95 Chilean Infantry rifle will do this well too, but not that fast. It has worn lands and will not shoot the RCBS bore rider. However it is nicely accurate with the Lyman 287405, 150gr Loverin to about 1600 fps.

...................Buckshot

[northsouth59]

Anybody here into the Nagant M91/30 or the M44..I've been trying to find some safe loads for mine useing cast bllets

[missionary5155]

GReetings and Welcome northsouth59 !!
Do you know you are member # 8000 !!! And for this distinct and honorable position you git-ta wash and scrub all the ..... Naw not really... WELCOME to the Herd !!!
What-cha want to do is slide back up to the opening page of this FORUM and click on " NEW THREAD" box and re-ask your question. By asking here in this 7x57 orientated thread most fellers shooting NAGANTS will not see this and be able to help you along.
Mike God Bless you !

[Ricochet]

It'll also work better if you refer to that rifle as a Mosin, like the Russians did. Nagants are revolvers. Causes much confusion.

[RugerFan]

Anybody here into the Nagant M91/30 or the M44..I've been trying to find some safe loads for mine useing cast bllets

In my M39 I'm loading the Lyman 311291 and Lee C309-180-R with 28 gns IMR 3031. In your 91/30 and M44 you may want to try the Lyman 314299. Using the "Search" function here you will come up will plenty of load data.

[RugerFan]

Long throats, fast twists... looks like I'm barking up the wrong tree. I'm thinking a .270 might be better suited for my requirements.

MJ

What'd ya need it for? How about a 6.5mm Swedish Mauser?

[Larry Gibson]

Hmmm, seems I know the whereabouts of a chopped Chilean for cheap:mrgreen:. Why do you have to give me ideas Larry!?:roll:

This is my "chopped, cheap" Chilean! She is a sweet shooter. There is a strain gauge for a M43 Oehler on the underside of the barrel. The wires wrapped around the stock are for attachment to the M43. When done testing I can discontect the wires and you won't even know the gauge is still there.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Anybody here into the Nagant M91/30 or the M44..I've been trying to find some safe loads for mine useing cast bllets

Lots of us shoot cast in MNs. Start a thread and ask for loads. Better yet do a "search" of this forum and you should get lots of information.

Larry Gibson

[Marlin Junky]

What'd ya need it for? How about a 6.5mm Swedish Mauser?

Hyper velocity with banjo string like trajectory :mrgreen: ... no copper patch.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe 6.5x55 rifles were designed around 160 grain bullets with very long throats and steep rifling. A Savage 116 in .270 with the Accu-Trigger and new Accu-Stock is looking better and better. My Pre-64 M70 in 30-06 (4-groove) is stuck at 2100 fps and I want to move to something faster with a bit less recoil.

MJ

[Hardcast416taylor]

I bought a "bubbasized" DWM 1908 Brazalian in 7mm about 20 yrs. ago. You couldn`t hit the broad side of a barn with the doors shut with it with any kind of ammo! I bought a new E.R. Shaw barrel from a small gunshop that was closing it`s doors due to a death. I`ve been the last 3 yrs. re-doing it and taking my time at it. So far it has had some types of both "J" bullets and RCBS 145 gr. boolits thru it. Even with no finish on the stock from fajen last fall it put venison in my freezer with the RCBS boolit. So far I have since then put 12 hand rubbed coats of lindseed oil on the wood and plan to have all the metal sand blasted blued after tax time. I have the Timney adjusted down to 2 3/4 lb., my decision on weight. A thin pachmyer hunting rifle pad and QD sling swivels also are on by me. The bedding and glassing actually took me the longest. The only thing not being done by me will be the blue job. The drilling and taping was done under the supervision of a friend that is a retired tool and die maker, as was the new swept back bolt handle. I`m trying to figure out the wifes camera to post a pic or three of my S. American beauty so Buckshot can slobber over mine like I did over his babies! As an aside, I was at Williams Gun Sight today. No crowds clamoring for semi-autos and they are getting in regular shipments of Winchester, Alliant, Hodgon and Accurate powders. A month ago it was a scramble to see who could throw their money the farthest over the crush of semi - auto buyers and not a real selection of alot of powders, maybe sanity is returning - or everybody is broke now! :castmine: Robert