Steyr M95 Mould Group Buy Possibility

[VintageRifle]

First off, I will not be able to honcho this. I would not have the time to get to the post office or ups to mail these out.

What I would be interested in is a FAT LEE .329 bullet (C329-205-1R). Would want to to drop at .334 or .335 with wheel weight alloy. I would like it to use a .32 cal. gas check.

My personal interest would be for a 2 cavity mould. One could buy a couple of these moulds and keep one back for later use, or use them in sequence. Another reason for a 2 cavity mould would be to keep the cost down per mould which would hopefully get more people interested and get a properly sized cast bullet for a Steyr M95 in more hands.

The grooves in all 4 of my Steyr M95 carbines is .330. My standard Lee mould drops at .329 and I only use the .329 sizer to apply gas checks. This works OK, but it is an undersized bullet.

Updated on bore dimentions: grooves of .330 and lands of .3145.

So a bore riding portion of .316 - .317" and a body of .334"?

The Lee Mould currently has a bore riding portion of .322" which I think is a bit too large.

[Bret4207]

A .323. GC on a .335 boolit?

[VintageRifle]

My mistake on gas check description. Meant to say a .32 cal gas check. I was thinking of the Lee 8mm bullet that uses a .32 gas check like their 8x56R bullet. Original post corrected (unless I am really thinking incorrectly here).

[abunaitoo]

What is the cost for the custom two cavity mould????

[abunaitoo]

Price for a two cavity mould is $24.98 + $100.00 set-up fee.
Fee is waved for an order of 25 or more moulds.
I'd be interested in one, or two, of these.

[Bret4207]

32/8mm, same thing. This is a tough area in the 8x56R. The right check to my way of thinking would be a 338 check, but they're scarce these days. Lee uses the 8mm check on their .329 mould and it barely touches the lands in my 95. I'd leave it to the guys who know more about this stuff, but to me and undersize (grossly undersize) GC is almost a waste of money. I'm sure it helps some, but not like a correctly sized check.

[VintageRifle]

Ok, I now see what I was doing wrong as far a sizing. I was measuring an new .32 cal gas check that had not been crimped. It measured .336". I measured the base and it is .327". I see the issue now.

My only thought is since the max diameter for the .32 cal gas check is .336" before crimping, it would crimp to .332 or .333 and the .327 base would be untouched. This would make the base of the bullet more like a boat tail bullet. This also assumes that the check would still hold gas back as it would have a smaller area to seal gases.

If there was an abundance of .338 gas checks out there, this would be the size I would suggest as well. Hornady does list them on their website. Less expensive than the .32 cal. as well.

Another possibility is to just make it a plain base mould.

P.S. Not getting enough sleep, having an idea, and not actually writing down the idea before posting allows for mistakes. Thanks for bringing up the issues and helping correct them.

[gutshot_again]

The gator makes 338 checks. Perhaps we can talk Blammer into getting some if enough guys commit to it.

I'd be in for a two cavity if it uses a 338 check.

[Wayne Smith]

I'll be in for a couple two cavity molds if we can get .338 Gator Checks. I guess we can get them from him individually if we need to.

[DanM]

I am interested in a Steyr m95 mold, but it would have to be a .335" (sized to .334") for accuracy in my rifle. It would need a .338" check. BACO filled my backorder for Hornady .338 checks last Nov, and may still have some. If not, Gators will do fine. How would this boolit differ from the stock .338 Lee mold that many are already using with good success? My thinking goes like this: If you are going to do a 2cav custom mold, then the design should be an improvement over the off the shelf model. So far, the Oldfeller #1-M95 design has been the most accurate in my rifle. That would be the middle boolit in this photo:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n24/DanM2000/8x56a.jpg
It is a FN, bore rider design of about 230grs IIRC. The left boolit is the Lee .338" design, and the right one is the Oldfeller #2 M95 250gr design which shows a loaded round that is a little too long. All these feed just fine in my rifle, and the middle one shoots like this for me:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n24/DanM2000/M95%20Styer/M95232435036.jpg
I have been able to increase this load to 1900fps with the same good accuracy. I don't have a lot of the Oldfeller boolits left, but could provide samples for a designer to work from. The original molds were made by Mtn. Molds, but they are lost or wrecked, and the designs weren't saved. I don't mean to imply that this is the best possible design,but I do think it should be a bore rider, and maybe it should be a FN for hunting applications too.

[VintageRifle]

On the LEE .338 bullet, what does the bore riding section cast at? I have been reading that the standard LEE .329 and the .338 bullet has too much lead when it engraves the rifling on the oversized bore riding section.

I was thinking of at modified LEE bullet that would have a better bore riding section and a properly sized body and driving bands.

The main reason for a 2 cavity mould is to get more people in on the group buy by having lower cost bullet moulds.

I may try to get a LEE .338 mould and see what that does before going any further.

Currently, I load the LEE .329 bullet to the max length that will fit in the magazine.

[VintageRifle]

Can someone post the specs on the Lee .338 bullet?

I would think the nose section would be too large or are we looking at basically a full bore slug from front to back?

[Cbenc1]

My Lee C338-220 drops them out with a .330 nose and .339 driving bands. My Lee C329-205-1R drops .317 nose with .335 bands. I have not yet tried the .338 boolit in any of my M95's yet.
I sure like the two Oldfeller designs shown above. I would like to see a re-run of one or both of those.

[Bret4207]

Well, I tried to get a screen shot of my favorite mould, but it won't go. It's the NEI 33-245GC, #98, top of page 6.

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog.html

Great shooter. It goes about 251 gr in WW alloy. A FN would be a hunting benefit and a little more girth would be nice.

I was not aware Hornady offered GC right off their website. I'll have to look. If 338's are availbe then go for it. I still have about 900 left, I'll be needing more.:drinks:

[DanM]

The single cavity Lee .338-220 that I have is pretty old, and probably different than the current molds. It has a .326 nose, and .335 driving bands as cast. At .326" the Lee nose is still a little fat for bore riding. The Oldfeller #1s that I have measure .319" on the nose , and
.334" on the bands after sizing. In my rifle, the nose could go to .320-.321" for a tighter fit in the lands.

Bret....The #98 and #102 look interesting....

[Bret4207]

My copy is an older one Walt cut, Things an absolute joy to use!

[johnly]

I just checked the Lee 338 bullets that dropped out of my recently purchased 2 cavity mold and they measured .3295" in the nose section. The driving bad area didn't get touched by my .340" sizer.

John

[Wayne Smith]

That reminds me, won't we need lube/size dies for this, too? Rick, are you listening?

[DanM]

We need to agree on a design first, if there is enough intrest to make it fly.....

[AppleValley_Jim]

I am very interested also in the group buy for a two bullet mold for my M95 Hungarian 8x56r.

I am a new owner of an M95 Stutzen in Wonderful / near mint condition with beautiful wood.

The barrel slugged at .330 if I measured correctly. I checked it and re-checked it.

Count me in on a group buy for this mold on whatever size is agreeded to here. This would be very good. Thanks.

[Wayne Smith]

The Oldfeller #1 would be my choice at this time. I'm not much of a designer, so I'm open to comments and advice from those who know better than I.

[AppleValley_Jim]

I am not much on flat nose bullets ... but I am open to any of these shown.

[DanM]

So far, I only count six or seven folks interested. Probably need more than that to get the price down to a reasonable level. I guess we need to let this thread run for a while, and hopefully we can get someone to honcho. I will provide samples to design from if we agree on the Oldfeller boolit.

[Wayne Smith]

If we post a firm design we may get more interest. I will be buying a mold using a 338 gas check, either this one or one of the NEI designs

[Oldeyes]

I may be needing a mould as I have a M95 long rifle in transit; if it's a keeper I'll need something to feed it, so lets hope for some more interest to make a group buy fly!

[Buckshot]

..............Gee I missed this "Feeler" :-)

http://www.fototime.com/7B5E80F99FF60E7/standard.jpg

My suggestion is a Loverin design. A bore rider's fit becomes moot, and the multiple smaller bands are easier to engrave. In the same vein the smaller drive bands are also easier to size down.

http://www.fototime.com/ADF9F422ACC2AA7/standard.jpg

Something similar, but enough different to warrant discussion is the above boolit designed as an 8mm heavyweight (Just before Oldfeller designed his 2). Basicly a modified Loverin with double width drive bands. This was designed to drop at .326" and weigh about 240grs. As it is it drops at 236grs with WW alloy. In the photo, the LEFT booilt is lube-sized .325" and on the right after lube-sizing to .323" it had been sent up through a .314" push through die to be used in a persnikity Argentine.

Another thought is to design a modified "DD" type nose band. At the turn of the ogive you have a belt of larger OD. Say you have the drive bands designed for a .335" OD and then a nose of .314" or maybe even .316". Out at the end you place a band of .318" OD and 0.020" wide.

If you notice on the Oldfeller #1, his drive bands are basically what you'd see on a Loverin. I believe one of the reasons it works is that there is a place for displaced lead to go. The barrel of the M95 is 4 lands and 4 grooves of equal width. So 50% is (we'll say) .316" and the other 50% is .332". Some have mentioned a .314" x .330" barrel so it has the same exact issue. The boolit enters the leade, the lands built in height and force .008" of lead from around 50% of the boolit's OD to move.

Add to the above (with a nod toward fitting the throat) that you've lube-sized your original .338" slug down to .336"? Many of these carbines will easily chamber a round with a .338" slug loaded, and it will handily fit in the throat. In fact some (I have one) that will do the same with an UNSIZED 338 caliber slug @ .340"!!! But for the example we'll say it's sized to .336". Add in this extra .004" (.002" all around) of lead you're forcing to relocate IN ADDITION to the .008" seeking relief elsewhere due to the lands.

My theory is that that boolit is moving forward and encounters the 4 lands. And since it IS moving forward, the displaced lead is forced to the rear. If you have a design where the drive bands are 4 times the width of the lube grooves the land just pushes the lead into the lube groove negating that area. Like building a road and cutting a crest and using the result to fill the following ravine. And add in the fact that the entire boolit can be 1 or 2 thousandths larger around then the GROOVES also, and not just the lands.

In any respect, I think in terms of ease of fit and practicality the Loverin or a modified version is the way to go.

I just measured Hornady 8mm (32) and 338 GC's. From my samples, the 32 is .300" x .336" and the 338 is .325" x .347". I'd suggest a somewhat shallow groove at the top of the GC shank, such as Lee did on their C430 - 310-F 44 cal design, and that the slug be designed to use 338 GC's.

..................Buckshot

[Wayne Smith]

Can somebody draw up what Buckshot is suggesting in a Louverin design with the shallow groove at the top of the GC shank? I am absolutely hopeless when it comes to visualizing three dimensions, and yes, I know I'll only get two here!

Secondly, is anyone willing to honcho this? With just a few of us how about looking at Old West? That way others can jump on the bandwagon as they begin to feed their M95's. If I can get it shooting good it will make a really quick woods rifle. Cast some of these soft point and go hunting!

[StarMetal]

..............Gee I missed this "Feeler" :-)

http://www.fototime.com/7B5E80F99FF60E7/standard.jpg

My suggestion is a Loverin design. A bore rider's fit becomes moot, and the multiple smaller bands are easier to engrave. In the same vein the smaller drive bands are also easier to size down.

http://www.fototime.com/ADF9F422ACC2AA7/standard.jpg

Something similar, but enough different to warrant discussion is the above boolit designed as an 8mm heavyweight (Just before Oldfeller designed his 2). Basicly a modified Loverin with double width drive bands. This was designed to drop at .326" and weigh about 240grs. As it is it drops at 236grs with WW alloy. In the photo, the LEFT booilt is lube-sized .325" and on the right after lube-sizing to .323" it had been sent up through a .314" push through die to be used in a persnikity Argentine.

Another thought is to design a modified "DD" type nose band. At the turn of the ogive you have a belt of larger OD. Say you have the drive bands designed for a .335" OD and then a nose of .314" or maybe even .316". Out at the end you place a band of .318" OD and 0.020" wide.

If you notice on the Oldfeller #1, his drive bands are basically what you'd see on a Loverin. I believe one of the reasons it works is that there is a place for displaced lead to go. The barrel of the M95 is 4 lands and 4 grooves of equal width. So 50% is (we'll say) .316" and the other 50% is .332". Some have mentioned a .314" x .330" barrel so it has the same exact issue. The boolit enters the leade, the lands built in height and force .008" of lead from around 50% of the boolit's OD to move.

Add to the above (with a nod toward fitting the throat) that you've lube-sized your original .338" slug down to .336"? Many of these carbines will easily chamber a round with a .338" slug loaded, and it will handily fit in the throat. In fact some (I have one) that will do the same with an UNSIZED 338 caliber slug @ .340"!!! But for the example we'll say it's sized to .336". Add in this extra .004" (.002" all around) of lead you're forcing to relocate IN ADDITION to the .008" seeking relief elsewhere due to the lands.

My theory is that that boolit is moving forward and encounters the 4 lands. And since it IS moving forward, the displaced lead is forced to the rear. If you have a design where the drive bands are 4 times the width of the lube grooves the land just pushes the lead into the lube groove negating that area. Like building a road and cutting a crest and using the result to fill the following ravine. And add in the fact that the entire boolit can be 1 or 2 thousandths larger around then the GROOVES also, and not just the lands.

In any respect, I think in terms of ease of fit and practicality the Loverin or a modified version is the way to go.

I just measured Hornady 8mm (32) and 338 GC's. From my samples, the 32 is .300" x .336" and the 338 is .325" x .347". I'd suggest a somewhat shallow groove at the top of the GC shank, such as Lee did on their C430 - 310-F 44 cal design, and that the slug be designed to use 338 GC's.

..................Buckshot

Rick,

Enclosed is a picture of the original Oldfeller Boxcar that has been fired to show you exactly what is happening to the bullet. You and I have about the same bore and groove. My groove was .331 as I sold the rifle to DanM. I'd like to say that the two bullets that Olfeller honchoed for moulds from Mtn Moulds were two of the finest shooting bullets out of my rifle. The Lee 338 did well too. I'd say just get Oldfeller's second bullet redone.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/Oldfeller.jpg

Joe

[bart55]

I am another interested in a mould if this gets going as I have a couple of these that need good cast boolets

[brockj]

I would be interested as well