$20 core swage die idea

[BT Sniper]

In my attempts to save money and make consistant weight bullets I have been thinking of how to make cores all weight the same. I here you say just buy a core swage die. I checked, Corbin's is $230. So you say use a mold for your core, I can't keep the final weight within 3 grains. I don't have the amount of time some of you do into casting, maybe I need more practice. I hear some say +or- X number of grains will not matter with pistol bullets. I want to start making match quality riffle bullets.

Here is my thought. Start with a Lee bullet sizer die in what ever dia core you need ($12). Mount it upside down in your press. Cap off the top (threaded end now extending above press) with a steel 7/8-14 thread cap of some sort. Make a floating piston to fit inside dia of die. Piston and core will be forced to stop upward movement when it hits the cap. Drill small hole in center of cap smaller than floating piston to allow a punch for core extraction. Adjust die in press for weight of core. Now the hard part, drill a bleed hole in the side of the die to extrud the excess weight from core.

I have achieved a hole threw the side of a sizing die before with dremel and the small pointed diamond bit, but it was not easy. I have read a masonary drill bit may work too?

I do not have a bullet sizing die yet (on order) so I can't prove any of this.

Possible problems:

Prob: The lee die might be tappered and the supplied punch dia may be to big.
Fix: reduce the punch dia.

Prob: The die may be tapered, there for installing it upside down will not allow us to push the core out.
Fix: use the die wright side up and figure out a way to cap the top by cutting threads with lathe allowing cap. Or cut off the unthreaded portion of the die using the cap as a retaing nut. Could even unscrew the cap every time to remove core but this does not sound like good time.

Prob: The threaded portion of the die may not be long enough to extend to top of press not allowing a cap on end.
Fix: See privious fix or reduce the unthreaded outside dia of the die to less than 7/8th.

Prob: Cap bends or gives causing uneven core weights.
Fix: Make it sronger. Or figure out way to cut threads inside top half of the lee sizing die allowing for a standard bolt like every other core seating die has.

Prob: this all sounds too difficult
Fix: buy one already made:mrgreen:

I think it could work! I have alot of time to think now days, to bad it is not alot of time to do. Lost my job in the airlines now I'm a stay home dad with 2 year old twins. So money is an issue. Thats my sob story:(

So anyone have a Lee sizing die they may be able to answer some of my potential problems with, or is brave enough to be the ginni pig and try it themself? For all I know it may have allready been done. It is rare to come up with an idea that has not allready been tried.

As always any imput from the experts would be appriacted:-D

Thanks,



Brian

P.S. I rounded up to $20 and have read that Lee will make custom sizing die for $25. Sorry for the book I'll try to shorten them so as to up the post count towards achiving "boolit man"

[acemedic13]

I like it man...........You always have a great do it yourself scheme going. Getting set for the mad-max new world order bro?? Keep us posted on the progress. I am still messing with the 44 project. Like I said.....I am using a block of wood and getting + or - 3 gr. Good luck, it sounds fun. Joel

[BT Sniper]

Thinking,

The sizing die must have a taper which at some point reaches final dia. The core swage could be contained in this final diameter area allowing core to eject. Maybe even keeping the floating piston from falling out the bottom.

Anyone think Lee (or who ever) would make me a stright diameter sizing die with bleed holes allready drilled and threaded at top to allow for a stop bolt of some kind, there for solving all my problems? Oh.. and cheep too:-D

Thanks



Brian

[garandsrus]

BT Sniper,

Drop Buckshot a PM and he may be able to help out...

John

[mtnman31]

Two potential problems I see - first the limited selection of off-the-shelf sizes of Lee dies. You probably won't be able to find a Lee sizer to make the proper diameter cores that you need. Though this should be easy enough to make for any machinist and you might even be able to find an older die that isn't used and just machine it out. I have an older, un-used .32 Long die sitting on the shelf waiting to be reamed out and made into a push-thru sizer for my 9mm Makarov bullets. Most times the gunshows will have a vendor or two with a box full of misc. dies in various calibers, more or less a grab bag o' dies. Prices are always negotiable.
Second, you still need a press that is strong enough to swage the slug and extrude the excess. I have never tried swaging on a standard press so I can't speak to the feasability of it. I do know that not all presses have the leverage to swage. Just something to consider.

[BT Sniper]

LEE PRECISION

LUBE AND SIZING KIT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fastest and easiest way to lubricate and size cast bullets. Standard 7/8 x 14 threads fit any reloading press. Bullets are pushed through the sizing die nose first, so no special nose punches are needed. Gas checks are automatically seated and crimped in place. Sized bullets are captured in the special container. A 4oz. bottle of LEE LIQUID ALOX® LUBE-a $4.98 value-included free, is enough for thousands of bullets.

COMPLETE FOR ONE SIZE $19.98


.224 .358
.225 .401
.243 .410
.284 .427
.285 .429
.308 .430
.309 .451
.311 .452
.314 .454
.323 .457
.329 .501
.356 .510
.357

Seems like plenty of various sizes and for 25$ lee will make any size you want (so I'm told). Keep in mind this is just a core that will be swaged in a core seating die with jacket. So initial diameter is not that relevent as long as it fits in jacket. Main objective is to make all cores equal in weight.

Let us all assume we have a Corbin mighty press could the this idea work?

Could some one with a set of Lee bullet sizing dies post some dimintions for me. Total length, length of the treaded portion of die, lenght of punch, is there a taper in the inside diameter,etc..? I would like to draw up some plans in autocad.

Thanks



Brian

[BT Sniper]

Link to sight for a good example of swaging jacketed bullets, Step 1 is what I'm tring to make. Any idea what size bleed hole would be required?

http://preparednesssubculture.blogspot.com/2008/12/swaging-jacketed-bullets.html

Thanks,



Brian

[jcunclejoe]

.063 for a starting size on the bleed hole. If at the end of the stroke you must dwell (time) for the bleed to finish squirting out then you need to open up the hole size. Baby steps, it's hard to make the hole smaller.
This is not a perfect answer but it will give you a place to start. The smaller the core diameter the smaller the hole needs to be.
My .360 dia core uses a .075 bleed and it works great. My .185 dia core die has a .040 bleed and works great. Extrapolation may work well here for finding a starting point.
Good luck.
Joe

[BT Sniper]

Thanks Joe,

It is just one hole correct? Would additional holes make a difference. (probably the same as just makeing the one hole bigger right?) Not sure I can drill the hole myself? What core swage dies do you have? I take it the .185 is for a .22 cal bullet? Am I some what correct in the process here, thinking this could work with available bullet sizing dies?

OK enough ?'s

Thanks for the info, anyone else....



Brian

[BT Sniper]

Kind of hate to ask but I have not found a large suply of soft lead, just free ww. I know I was able to bleed of extra with the .429 CH core seating dies by opening up the dia of the bleed hole a little. Will a core swage die work with ww lead? Probably have to take this into consideration, maybe require a little bigger bleed hole? Come to think of it, it should work as I was able to swage about a .25 inch long skinny stove pipe of ww lead from the core seating process. I know pure lead is better but going with what I have here.

Still thinking,



Brian

[BT Sniper]

How would I know if the bleed hole is too big? Is there such a thing? Or would it just make it slightly harder to punch out the core is all (shearing off the excess bleed lead)?

[Red River Rick]

There is some info that was posted on this thread that may be of some use: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=31518

RRR

[badgeredd]

Kind of hate to ask but I have not found a large suply of soft lead, just free ww. I know I was able to bleed of extra with the .429 CH core seating dies by opening up the dia of the bleed hole a little. Will a core swage die work with ww lead? Probably have to take this into consideration, maybe require a little bigger bleed hole? Come to think of it, it should work as I was able to swage about a .25 inch long skinny stove pipe of ww lead from the core seating process. I know pure lead is better but going with what I have here.

Still thinking,



Brian

FWIW, when I talked to Dave at C-H a few months ago, he said the dies are made for 99.9% pure lead. He felt that adding WW in even a 5% ratio would be too much.

Edd

[BT Sniper]

You all are correct. It staits in the manual that the CH die is not rate for BNH over 5. This I read in the instructions before 1st use. Yes the ww lead did flare some of the internal stress points of the die. I was able to replace these with stronger parts. Have since made nearly 2,000 bullets from ww with great results. If the actuall die cracked tomorrow I would happily by another die from Dave with now regrets. It is one of those casses that if you don't try you'll never know. Please don't view this as careless on my part. Imagine how popular a set of dies would be rated for the BNH of ww. Imagine the penatration from a core, heat treated to 30 BNH. The cost was only time on my part, and now shooting 44mag bullets cheeper than 22lr.

Thanks rick I'll check out the posts.

Gladly accepted any other info on core swaging with a custom die and comments from those who may have used one.

Thanks guys,



Brian

[BT Sniper]

After reading posts RRR sugested it seams there is allitle more to getting even results with core swaging. Did not think of variations caused by time spent at TDC and rate of the force you apply. Supose I'll work on my casting techniques to get closer results. May still use the Lee bullet sizing dies to reduce brass jackets though.

Here is a thought for you all. After the core seating step I evened out the weight varations by trickeling lead powder in jacket on top of core than point forming. Did suceed in weight of +or-.2 grains but was a slow process and probably unnecessary for pistol bullets. Though I may try it for the larger riffle bullets.

Thanks for all your help.

My next question will be having dies made to form .338 bullets with brass jackets, how much spring back from the brass might I expect? So possibly a .336 core seating dia and a .337 point forming dia to end up with .338 total after spring back? Does anyone make .338 jackets and how much?

Thanks,



Brian

[BT Sniper]

Did the math. It only feels like it is cheeper than 22 LR. Cheep wally world 22 LR 2.5 cents a piece and my powder and primers are costing me 8 cents total a piece. So about $87 per thousand is still good shooting. Brian

[454PB]

"Could some one with a set of Lee bullet sizing dies post some dimintions for me. Total length, length of the treaded portion of die, lenght of punch, is there a taper in the inside diameter,etc..? I would like to draw up some plans in autocad."


My Lee sizer in .451":

Total die length 2.914"
Threaded area 1.500"

I screwed it into my RCBS Rockchucker from below, and there was .984" of the die protruding above the top of the press, and of that .984", .643" was threaded. The rest was the unthreaded taper at the end. I didn't actually measure it, but it looks like the actual sizing area of the die is about 5/8" long, and no taper I can detect.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks 454,

So far it looks like it could work. Does the punch go through from that side? Out of the 2.9 length of die only 5/8" is actually .451, what is the inside dia of the rest of the die? Is that 5/8" at the top or bottom of the die? If I understand this correctly I could only make a 5/8" long core at .451 if squished from both sides?

Thanks again, your send off line seems to cover alot of my thought process.

Brian

[jcunclejoe]

If the bleed hole is too big the core will not fill out completely.
I was referring ot a one hole system. More could be used but they must be smaller. If thet total area of the bleed holes is too large the core will not fill out completley.
The .185 dia core die is indeed for 22 cal. bullets.
Good luck.
Joe

[454PB]

Brian: The .451 sizing area is 5/8" long, the area above it (when the die is right side up) is slightly larger. I didn't measure it, but probably about .040". This is the "storage" area. If you've never used a Lee sizer, as the boolits are pushed through, they stack up in the storage area and finally flow out into the red plastic reservoir. So, yes, theoretically the slug could only be 5/8" long. However, if you bought a smaller die, you could bore it out to whatever diameter you wanted. For instance, a .401" sizer could be bored to .452". I've opened up a lot of Lee sizers in my lathe, they are not particularly hard like say a Star sizer die.

[BT Sniper]

That actually cleared things up for me. Sounds like if I wanted to make cores in the enlarged area it would work. The 5/8" long smaller dia would be the upward stop for the piston when mounted upside down. Figure some math now. I wonder, if it is running about .040 larger and I wanted a core around .284 maybe the .243 sizer whould do it.

.284 would be a good size core for me to seat in a sized down .223 case for a brass jacket.338 bullet.:mrgreen:

This idea my be starting to take shape now. Thanks for your time 454.

Brian

[BT Sniper]

Does anyone know of a metal 7/8-14 treaded cap to put over the end of a die maybe a pipe end fitting? Must be able to withstand alot of PSI. Example the sinclair expander die has a cap not sure if it looks strong enough what do you think?