Frosting and why I like it

[Boerrancher]

I have, since the weather has been bad the last couple of weeks doing a bit more casting. It is no secret that I like a 50/50 blend of pure and WW for most of my boolit alloys. I never was bothered by frosty boolits from time to time, but never tried to get them to come out frosty either. Until Now. I have started striving for a bit more accuracy than I ever have before so I have been pretty strict on my specs for what constitutes a keeper. They have to be as flawless as the eye can detect, and weigh with in + or - 2 tenths of a grain.

Here is where the frosting comes in. Through my casting of various weights and calibers I started noticing that I was not culling any of the frosted boolits upon a visual inspection. I was looking for wrinkles, rounded corners, rough sprue cuts, anything that could possibly cause a variation in weight. The frosted boolits had good good fill out sharp corners on the lube groves and the sprue cut was nice and clean. What really impressed me was that when I started dropping them on the scale I found that 98% of the frosted boolits fell within my + or - 2 tenths of a grain, and the ones that were out of spec were less than a tenth of a grain out.

So from now on I not only want my cakes frosted but I want to see a good coat of it on my boolits.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Blammer]

plus frosty boolits hold more lube!


well that's what I've been told... :)

[BeeMan]

Joe,

That matches my recent findings. I only started weighing my castings when I started shooting rifle matches last year. I saw a smaller and more consistent weight distribution when I pushed my casting parameters to give uniformly frosted bullets. It made enough of an impression that I'm setting up a thermocouple so I can reproduce casting conditions more easily. I also discovered I was losing consistency to a sloppy mold handle.

If I eliminate enough of variables I'll have nothing left to blame but my shooting.

BeeMan

[Paladin 56]

Joe,

I know what you mean. I've like the frosted look for years. Always gave a clean, sharp, well filled out boolit. And once loaded, a quick wipe and twist with a paper towel will have her shining like a new penny.

I've also heard they hold more lube, but I'm not so sure. But I'd guess the lube hangs on a fuzz better, but who knows. I just haven't noticed anything wrong with the frosting.

David

David

[The Dove]

Can you show us pics of your nice and frostee boolits?

The Dove

[Boerrancher]

Here is a couple of pics, it is hard to get frost to show up in a photo esp after they have been rolling around in a coffee can for a day or longer, but you can still see some of it.

The first pic is of a Lee C309-180-R, the second is a hand full of boolits I dug out of the coffee cans. One on top is a Lee C309-150-RF, the middle is a Lee 459-405-HB, and the others on each side are NEI 311-220-R's.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/101_0216.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/100_0261.jpg

If I do any casting tomorrow which I am sure I will as it is still snowing, like it has been all day, I will keep a few out so the frosting does not get beat off of them when I put them in the coffee cans.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[high standard 40]

I cast a few tonight with my Lee 214gr 44cal mold and it likes it hot also. Kept the melt hot enough for a very light frost on the bullets and they fill out great.

Charlie.........

[Leadforbrains]

All the keepers that fall from my hollowpoint molds are frosted.

[azrednek]

From my Lee brand molds I get near perfect castings when I turn the heat up to drop them frosty. Tests my patience though waiting the additional time for the sprue to harden.

[Ugly Dwarf]

Is there such a thing as TOO frosted? Is there a point where you start thowing them back in the pot?

The Lyman manual suggests it makes the bullets brittle, but doesn't offer much guidance on what is ok and what is too much.

This of extra interest to me, based on some bullets I cast this evening. They looked frosty when I was casting them, but they were filling out well so I kept going. (I'm planning to post pix in a new thread).

[Bloodman14]

I have a hard time getting my rifle boolits to come out frosty, but, my Lee TL452-230-2R's come out frosted all the time, hold plenty of lube and are accurate to boot!
gunnerd

Lead Forever!

[Boerrancher]

I don't cast anything smaller than 30 cal, and they are much more difficult to get to frost than the big bores. I think much of it is due to the lack of hot lead that it takes to make one. There is a great deal more heat in a slug that is 230 grs vs one that is 150 grs. It is easy to make those 405 gr 4570 boolits frost.

Ugly Dwarf,

To answer your question, yes there is. Frosting on a boolit should look like a new piece of galvanized roofing tin. It should be a patch work of small rectangle shaped flecks covering the surface of the boolit, and should wipe off fairly easily with a paper towel to leave behind a nice bright shining finish.

If your mould and or alloy is too hot, it can affect the size of the boolit greatly due to expansion and contraction due to heating and cooling. I looked at your boolits that you posted on the other thread, and would suggest adding in some tin, and letting your mould cool a bit by either the wet towel/sponge method, or do what I do and add a second mould. If I notice my mould is getting too hot and the sprues are taking a good while to cool I will pick up another mould, warm it up, fill it, sit it down and pick up my original, cut the sprues and dump the boolits. Fill the original, sit it down and cut and dump the second, then refill it. It takes a bit of practice but you can cast 2 different types of boolits this way and your moulds don't get over heated, and you don't have to cool them down with a wet towel or sponge.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Bret4207]

I will never, ever claim to be the worlds greatest caster. I have all the problems everyone has from time to time. But all those trials, repeated time after time, do give you some experience. For me this is what works- I run my moulds HOT, The alloy in the pot might show 725 or something, but that mould will never get close if you poke along in slow motion. I keep the mould hot by casting as fast as I reasonably can till I start getting the first signs of frosting. The I slow just a bit and soon the boolits are uniformly lightly frosted. Frosted boolits tend to give me good fill out. Frosting doesn't solve ALL the problems with fill out, but most of them go away when the mould is hot.

I want to make the clear differentiation between a hot mould and a hot alloy- I can't recall what temp I cast at off the top of my head but I know it's in the low to mid 700 degree F range. I read of other guys casting at 650, 675. I think it depends on the area you cast, your alloy, you pot and a few other things as to how hot you need to run your pot. But the mould is what matters. If you poke along in low gear, carefully pouring so there's no little messes here and there, dumping and inspecting every cast and generally worrying more about the boolits than the mould then you'll produce fewer good 'uns than if you get a steady, quick rhythm going and keep the mould up to temp. I thought about getting one of those IR thermometers so I could get an idea where the mould needs to run, but then I'd need someone else to do that while I cast. So forget that and get a good pace going. Now I'm a ladle man, tried and true, and unless someone should GIVE me an RCBS or Big Lyman I'll probably stay a ladle man. (I want a old SAECO BP, but that's as much for nostalgia as anything else. ) I tried a Lee, hated it from the word go and just can't beleive anyone in their right mind would put up with that crap you go through with a BP. Nevertheless, a BP should give you the same ability to get that rhythm going as a ladle, in fact it should be easier. I use a big ladle if I can and a relatively large pot (25-30 lbs) so I don't ever have to add ingots unless I'm using a 250 gr+ 6 banger or my 10 cav H+G and even then it's a long time between needed more alloy. I use the Bruce B method a lot, not on all moulds, but on a lot. The simple addition of that wet cloth makes all the difference in the world in keeping the mould up to temp while maintaining a good clip. If you try nothing else you read here, try the Bruce B sprue cooling idea, you'll find it speeds things up AND you'll get better bases IME.

So get the mould HOT ( after making sure it's clean of course) and see if it doesn't make a big difference. All the old timers here already know this I'm sure and it's nothing new. But I keep seeing pics of guys having problems with wrinkles and poor fill out and pulling their hair out wondering WHY? A hot mould, a damp rag, a good rhythm and a little learning and you'll see why we love those frosty looking boolits. If the appearance bothers you a quick swipe with 4/0 steel wool after they're loaded will shine them up. I must have missed the part in the Lyman books that say frosty boolits are brittle. That does not agree with my observations at all. In fact I see no difference in expansion characteristics with frosty vs non- frosty.