Shell holders

[Dye]

What is a accurate shell holder and how can a reloader determine if it is accurate?

Be carefull Dye

[44man]

That is a question the I don't understand! A shell holder needs a little play in it so the case can self center in the die. As long as it is milled flat and it holds the rim of the case, nothing more is needed.

[versifier]

I imagine that there are different tolerances for different manufacturers, and that for length critical operations like belling and bullet seating, the same shell holder should be used each time. How much real difference it makes, I don't know, as 44man pointed out, there has to be some play in them, and different brands of brass can have dimensional differences that add more variables. The "accuracy" comes from using the exact same setup and technique each time, not changing to different dies and shell holders except to experiment, and then paying close attention to any differences in critical measurements. I just leave the same one in the press for all the common head sized rifle cases, and I keep all the extras separately in a box. Specific size ones for handgun dies I keep right in the die boxes with them, so it's not really an issue for me.

[StarMetal]

Let me be more specific about Lee shell holders. You look at the RCBS or REDDING list and you'll see more individual shell holders then Lee. Lee has a habit of making one shell holder fit ALOT of cartridges and the fit isn't necessarily correct for some.

Joe

[felix]

I have had several shell holders from RCBS that are NOT flat. If the cases size to one side more than the other side it becomes OBVIOUS down at the web area. Especially if using carbide dies for pissola cartridges. It ain't the dies, I DON'T think. ... felix

[fourarmed]

As an example of what Joe mentioned, Lee uses the same SH for .45 Colt and .44 mag. My Auto Prime SH worked OK, but the one for the press would not take a .45 easily until I did a little filing on the throat of it. It still sized off center, so I bought one from RCBS. Haven't used it for sizing yet.

[JohnH]

With straight wall pistol cases it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, but the critical measurement would be from the case head surface to the top surface of the shell holder when discussing bottle neck cases Variances in that height dimension will affect the amount of the case that enters the die. If RCBS and Lee (or anyone else for that matter) are using different tolerance standards for that measurement, it can and will affect the shoulder to case head length. Obviously this could affect headspace, but I've never had such a trouble nor heard of it happening either, but that don't mean it couldn't.

Lee these days uses two different shelholders for 44 Mag and 45 Colt, #'s 14 and 11 respectively. As the rim diameter is essentially the same (yes there is minor difference) the 11 can be used for 44 Mag and 444 Marlin

44 Man is correct, the shell holder must allow play for the case to center itself in the die. So long as the case head/rim is not damaged extracting a case, what difference could excessive play make?

[Newtire]

Have aquestion that goes along with this. Isn't that the reason they make those case length gauges? I thought it was to tell you if you were sizing the case without setting the shoulder back, a thing that could conceivably happen with the wrong size shellholder on anything that headspaces on the shoulder...?

[BruceB]

As previous posters have stated, I too really prefer a shellholder that allows some free movement of the case within the lip of the shellholder, so long as the shellholder still has a good "bite" on the case rim to ensure extraction from the dies. The case is then free to find the center of the die, as directed by the walls of the die itself. This should pretty much cancel-out any slight misalignment of the ram and the die position. I definitely don't want a shellholder in which the case is a press fit.

When sizing for bolt action or single-shot rifles, I let the rifle tell me how much sizing it "wants". With most low-pressure cast-boolit loads, the cases really don't need much sizing, but I still start with a minimum of sizing and then progressively increase the amount until the action just closes with a bit of "feel". Of course, hunting loads are full-length sized, and are usually in new or once-fired brass, to boot.

Sometimes, a standard shellholder doesn't allow enough sizing, as in the session last year when I reported on headspace differences in a group of three .30-06 rifles. In such a case, I thin-down the top of the shellholder until it does allow enough sizing.

For ANY autoloading rifle, (or pistol, for that matter) I religiously use the appropriate case gauge....first during the set-up stage, to ensure the amount of sizing is adequate to allow free chambering of the rounds, and second, as a final check of EVERY ROUND to make sure that the loaded ammunition is still of such dimensions as to function correctly. It's very rare to find rounds which don't fit the gauge correctly, but even one such round can really ruin one's day under the "proper" circumstances. I think the time is well-spent, especially since I combine the gauging operation with final inspection and the wiping-off of the rounds to get rid of bits of lube, etc. For the minimal cost of the gauges, I consider them to be invaluable tools on my bench.

[D.Mack]

Felix When my dies size more on one side than the other, it's usually a small piece of crud inside the slot the shell rim slides into. I use a tooth pick, swizzle stick, or a finnish nail to scrape it out, and I'm back in business. DM

[44man]

Felix, I have had several rifles in the shop that the chamber was not reamed on center. The worst was a Ruger 77. One side of the case always expanded more then the other side. There was no way to size them straight. Make sure you don't have this condition.
I also had a Savage 110 come in to be sighted. Had a job with that one because the reciever was not threaded straight and the barrel pointed to the left a little. Kind of messed up cases too but the darned thing shot 1/2" groups at 100 yd's. Since the fella didn't handload and was impressed with the accuracy, he was happy the way it was.
Sometimes it is the gun and not the dies or shellholder.

[felix]

Ok, I'll check things over as you both say. Guns shoot fine, though. ... felix

[Frank46]

Dye, sometimes with range brass that was fired in rifles other than my own, full length resizing won't be enough to allow the case to chamber in my rifle. I have two '06 shell holders that were surface ground. One had .005 taken off and the other had .010 taken off.
If one doesn't work the other usually takes care of the job. I think the supposedly "standard" thickness on the top of the shell holder is .125 but different manufacturer's may not all adhere to this. Hope this helps, Frank