Data for 30/223 & .308x1.5 Needed

[versifier]

My next two serious projects will be rifles in 30/223 (probably a Contender Carbine) and .308x1.5 on a Mauser action. I'm looking for loading data for both cast and jacketed, beyond what's in COTW. I don't generally see a lot of talk about wildcats here in the asylum, but I figured I had nothing to lose by asking. Some info has been found on other forums, but some of it is pretty hinky. I trust the guys here and figured I take a shot and see what any of you might come up with.

[Bass Ackward]

My next two serious projects will be rifles in 30/223 (probably a Contender Carbine) and .308x1.5 on a Mauser action. I'm looking for loading data for both cast and jacketed, beyond what's in COTW. I don't generally see a lot of talk about wildcats here in the asylum, but I figured I had nothing to lose by asking. Some info has been found on other forums, but some of it is pretty hinky. I trust the guys here and figured I take a shot and see what any of you might come up with.


The 308X1.5 is listed in Quickload. So for it, you could have unlimited load data. The 30/223 is not listed as such. Does it have another nameLike the 25/222 can be listed as such or as the 25 Copperhead?

[JSH]

The 308x1.5 is a fairly old WC. If you can't find any data I will keep my eyes open. Also I would guess most of the data will pertain to FLGC's. But you should be able to convert that fairly easy. You might also do a search on 308 Barnes and see what that gives you. The 30 BR would be another that should give you some reference as to a starting point. There should be quite a bit of data for CB's and the 30BR around.

The 30-223 I would say to look at some 7TCU data and go from there, maybe use a start load. I also may have some old data on the 30-223 but will have to look, just picked up a couple of books last year and saw reference to the 30-223, there may be some data for the 308x1.5.
A freind of mine built a 30-223 a few years back and it was very temperature sensititve for some reason, condoms there though. I think he was using 748 and maybe some of the old surplus AA2200. I do remeber also he was trying or wanting to shoot the heavies in it 165's -200's. That may have caused issues too. This was before lil gun and some of the newer powders we have at hand now.
Jeff

[Scrounger]

The 308X1.5 is listed in Quickload. So for it, you could have unlimited load data. The 30/223 is not listed as such. Does it have another nameLike the 25/222 can be listed as such or as the 25 Copperhead?

Try .30 TCU.

[versifier]

.30/223 is also called .30 Apache, and there is a variation called .30/223 Ingram. I got an email this morning with two pages of data from a gentleman from Louisiana on another forum, but he shoots it on a handgun. Data's still good, as most of the loads fill the case 100%. The only cast load is for a 115gr boolit, which should work well with the soupcan, but I want to shoot 150gr boolits. Based on what Barnes and Dunlop (who developed it - I have his original test barrel) wrote, It seems like it doesn't much matter as to the weight, as the case-filling charges don't approach the pressure max. Still want some feedback on it, though, including opinions (leave my sanity or lack thereof alone for now, just stick to topic, please).
Bass, I don't have Quickload, my budget doesn't allow it at this time, but if you would be willing to provide me with some data for 150-180gr boolit loads, I'd be grateful. IMR's 3031, 4064, & 4198 seem to be the powders of choice for jacketed, but I do not think they'd be optimum for cast. That's why I'm asking here. Again, thoughts, opinions, wild ravings, etc. are all appreciated.

[bruce drake]

Versifier,

Could you send me that same data file? Just like you, I've been thinking about changing one of my ARs over to 30/223. So I'm following this with some interest also.

I've theorized using a .223 Reamer with a taped up .30 spindle head to lengthen a 300BLK chamber for the longer cartridge and then kissing the chamber's throat just enough for the bullets to have a decent throat at 2.260 COAL (max cartridge length for AR). Has anyone taped a reamer's spindle to get it a little more thickness to match the new barrel's bore for concentricity.

I've already built two dummy rounds (one 120gr 311359 GC and one 125gr Remington Spitzer. I used a 257 Roberts sizer to open the 223 cartridge's neck up and then a 308 Win sizing die to finish the expansion before I used the 300BLK seating die to place both bullets. I plan to spring for a custom die set from LEE once I've saved the money for a quality 16" 300BLK/300 Whisper barrel to be the project barrel.

For now, I have H110, Win296, IMR4895, H4895, American Select, Steel, Russian Surplus 4895 (It is not a bad powder for accuracy but pretty sooty in all rifles that I've tried it with), IMR 4007SSC, WCC-844 which is equivalent to H335-10%, IMR-800X, BLC-2 and Unique. I intend to start developing the ladder tests on the loads once the rifle is completed.

I don't have Quickload but I intend to start on the low end of the powder chart, to determine the optimal powder selection to allow the AR to perform to its best an minimize unnecessary stoppages. I intend to use this as a walk-around woods/varmint rifle

For this proposed wildcat, I intend to just open the mouth to allow the 30 caliber and keep the original neck and shoulder angles of its Parent cartridge.

Has anyone on this forum, seen or used this 30/223 Wildcat?

Thanks,
Bruce

[leftiye]

Other than the 1 in 7 twist this is real close to the 300 AAC blackout. I want to rebore the 300 aac to .35 caliber. An automatic .357 maximum. (you did notice that the thread is 8 years old?)

[chuckbuster]

Ken Waters did a Pet Loads on the .308x1.5

[bruce drake]

I did notice that the thread was one of our older ones...

I already own and enjoy shooting the 300BLK with cast and jacketed in one of my AR uppers. I even shot that upper in a 100 yard highpower rifle match this spring and it did very well despite my efforts to miss the target! ;)

I even have a friend (he doesn't cast or reload but continues to buy jacketed ammo at outrageous prices despite my offers to teach him) who owns the 7.62x40WT (Wilson Tactical) who is admitting that he would like a bit more powder space as well. It might even be the final barrier for him to start reloading if he has a wildcat in his gunsafe.

[Echo]

I had Ron DeWarf re-barrel an XP-100 in 30-223 decades ago, and used it in silhouette shooting. Redfield Olympic sight. My best results were with fairly light bullets, 125-130 grain - my match shooters were 130 gr Sierra FP over 26 grs of surplus Ball-C-2, and I believe I got similar results with H-335. I also tried 15.9 grs 2400 under a Lee 130 gr RNGC, and my notes indicated 'Near Full Power'.
That gun disappeared, along with several others - dang...

[bruce drake]

Do you remember what reamer your friend used to cut the chamber on that pistol? And I'm sorry you "lost" the firearm.

Just a matter of saving my pennies up now.

[catmandu]

I bought a couple sets of Wilson arbor dies in 308. One set is shorter and I believe its for .308 x 1.5.

Paul in WNY

[Echo]

Do you remember what reamer your friend used to cut the chamber on that pistol? And I'm sorry you "lost" the firearm.

Just a matter of saving my pennies up now.

I don't - just gave the gun to Ron and he got the reamer from wherever...

[r6487]

i have a pacific 308 x 1.5" reamer.

[RayinNH]

Bruce, Versifier hasn't been on this site in years. I do believe he is a moderator on Gunloads (the parent to this site) though. You might contact him there.

[bruce drake]

Thanks for the lead RayinNH. I'll try to contact him through that site. I'm saving my pennies right now for another 300BLK AR15 barrel to ream out to the longer cartridge, I've already determined that this wildcat will be #2 on my current list of projects (my first is a .358x39 AR for deer hunting but it will be in a different thread!). I may run this project plan of mine on the cheap using the rifle barrel I already have so who knows, it may be done before Christmas or maybe not.

[MtGun44]

Wouldn't you get pretty much the same end result with .300 AAC Blackout and have TONS of standard
reamers, SAAMI chamber dimensions, factory brass, loading dies standardized, etc.? Not trying to
be a wet blanket on fun, but it may save a bunch of money and time and get you to almost exactly
the same place ballistically, sooner and cheaper.

Bill

[Trapper458]

Hi all,

Saw Bruce Drake revived this thread. My Friend and I also have interest in the 30 Apache/ 30-223, we started looking into this project after having good fun shooting my Dad's Korea vintage M1 Carbine. I too consider a 300 Blackout bbl reamed to the 30-223, I would like to use bullets on the lighter side, 100-130 grains. I wanted to mention that if you go to Midway and search for 30-223, it shows reamers and dies available. Would you use the std 223 headspace guage to set headspace? All good fun, and no I don't really need one but I want one......

Regards,
Trapper458