3000 fps

[pdawg_shooter]

Back in November I decided to develop a sub-MOA, 3000fps load for a 30 caliber rifle. It took awhile, but I believe I have “got er done.”

The Bullet.
The most consistently accurate 30cal bullet I cast is the Lyman 311284 so this is the one I worked with. The alloy is a mix of WW and Linotype. I added lino. until an air cooled bullet tested 16.0 BHN on my Lee tester. The bullet was then sized .3015 with a push through die. This gave me full length bearing surface. The bullet was then patched with 16# green bar printer paper and allowed to dry overnight. I then clipped the tail, lubed with White Label BAC and run through a .310 push through die. This left the bullet .311 and ready to load. The finish weight, with patch, was 202gr.

The Rifle.
In order to get the velocity I wanted with this weight bullet I chose a 300RUM in a Savage model 116. It is stainless with a plywood stock. It came from the factory with pillar bedding, and I added glass behind the recoil lug, and under the front receiver ring and tang. I topped it with a Weaver T15 for this test. This rifle will group ¾ to 7/8 with good jacketed bullet loads.

The Brass.
I used new Remington brass. I full length sized them and sorted by weight allowing no more than +/- 1%. It was then trimmed to length, outside neck turned to .012 thickness, the primer pocket reamed to a uniform depth, flash holes drilled uniform and deburred. I then loaded with a 180gr. Core Lock and H4831 to fireform. The test load was then loaded in UNSIZED brass. I tried H1000, Retumbo, and finally settled on reloader25. The starting load was 88.0 and I worked up to 93.0. This gave me 3069 with no signs of excess pressure. Oh yes, the primer was a Federal 215. The bullets were seated about ¼ inch into the case and finished seating when the bolt was closed. This gave me an OAL of 3.670.

The Test.
Testing was done over 2 days. Shots were fired over a bench rest with a windage and elevation adjustable front rest and “bunny ear” rear rest. Twenty 3 shot groups were fired allowing the barrel to cool completely. The smallest group measured .760 and the largest was 1.140. The overall average figured out to .992. Mission accomplished, but just barely. So what good is this load? Not much unless unless you like poking holes in paper. Next step will be to neck size, seat to correct OAL and see how they shoot. Might make a good hunting load that way.

[lreed]

Thanks PDshooter for a informative post.I too am working on patching the 311284,but for '06 case. I would like to ask,do you patch this bullet past the ogive? The reason I ask is that I can't chamber a fully wraped 311284 in my rifle without going down in the case. I have always avoided below neck seating with all castbullets,is this wrong thinking? I guess maybe I need someone to draw me a picture. Thanks Again lreed

[pdawg_shooter]

I patch just past the start of the ogive. Dont worry about the bullet being beneath the neck. With the patch to protect the bullet no problem. Try to seat your bullets so the patch is engraved on chambering. Helps keep everything straight. Also at the velocity yo will be at a BHN of 12.0 to 13.0 will work better for hunting.

[scrapcan]

pdawg shooter,

thanks again for posting your results. I ahve a friend that has asked several times about doing the same in a 300 weatherby. I said I was not the one to talk to but now I know who is.

What is the recoil like with the pp boolit?

[pdawg_shooter]

Well, you dont have to ask the guy at the next bench if it went off! If I can help in anyway I will. You can e-mail me, pdawg.shooter@gmail.com.

[bandit7.5]

I am still having a problem with getting my mind around a 3000fps cast load, If I had something that could do it i would try.

[docone31]

I am routinely firing 2500fps with my .308s. This is with paper patching, thanks to the help from a few of us here.
I tried the same load without patching, sized as would be appropriate for a cast boolitt.
Forget it. One whistled and missed by over 20ft, the rest were all within 20MOB. Minutes of Berm.
I use water quenched wheel weight, some zinc mixed in.
Next to try 25-06, and .243. Jacketeds are getting pricey, Why not?
With my paper patched .308, I am getting MOA at 100yds. One group, I had several touching.

[waksupi]

Now you've done it. I'm thinking about paper patching for the Swede, to try to defeat the RMP limit. Anyone have any undersized bullets they would care to donate to the project? Or pick it up yourself?

[yondering]

pdawg_shooter, can you post some pictures of your wrapped boolits, and maybe what they look like before wrapping but after sizing to .301?
Thanks.

[pdawg_shooter]

pdawg_shooter, can you post some pictures of your wrapped boolits, and maybe what they look like before wrapping but after sizing to .301?
Thanks.

Sorry guy, I dont have a didg. camera. I tend to spend my funds on things that go bang. Heck this isnt even my computer! I have to use one at work!

[pdawg_shooter]

Now you've done it. I'm thinking about paper patching for the Swede, to try to defeat the RMP limit. Anyone have any undersized bullets they would care to donate to the project? Or pick it up yourself?

If you support the bullet in the barrel with something (like paper) it does not distort like a bare bullet. Raises the RPM limit way up there. Pure lead will distort by rpm alone but I have taken pure up to 2200fps in a 1-14 .458 barrel with no problem.

[pdawg_shooter]

I am still having a problem with getting my mind around a 3000fps cast load, If I had something that could do it i would try.

Not just cast! Paper patched is the answer. You have to support and protect the bullet INSIDE the barrel. Isnt that what the lube is for on a plain cast?

[45 2.1]

Now you've done it. I'm thinking about paper patching for the Swede, to try to defeat the RMP limit. Larry's copy of an old idea isn't valid. It is one of boolit fit and composition. Anyone have any undersized bullets they would care to donate to the project? Pick any of the 25 caliber cast boolits as they are the right size to begin with to do this. Or pick it up yourself? Done it a long time ago.

[josefczyk]

Back in November I decided to develop a sub-MOA, 3000fps load for a 30 caliber rifle. It took awhile, but I believe I have “got er done.”

The Bullet.
The most consistently accurate 30cal bullet I cast is the Lyman 311284 so this is the one I worked with. The alloy is a mix of WW and Linotype. I added lino. until an air cooled bullet tested 16.0 BHN on my Lee tester. The bullet was then sized .3015 with a push through die. This gave me full length bearing surface. The bullet was then patched with 16# green bar printer paper and allowed to dry overnight. I then clipped the tail, lubed with White Label BAC and run through a .310 push through die. This left the bullet .311 and ready to load. The finish weight, with patch, was 202gr.

The Rifle.
In order to get the velocity I wanted with this weight bullet I chose a 300RUM in a Savage model 116. It is stainless with a plywood stock. It came from the factory with pillar bedding, and I added glass behind the recoil lug, and under the front receiver ring and tang. I topped it with a Weaver T15 for this test. This rifle will group ¾ to 7/8 with good jacketed bullet loads.

The Brass.
I used new Remington brass. I full length sized them and sorted by weight allowing no more than +/- 1%. It was then trimmed to length, outside neck turned to .012 thickness, the primer pocket reamed to a uniform depth, flash holes drilled uniform and deburred. I then loaded with a 180gr. Core Lock and H4831 to fireform. The test load was then loaded in UNSIZED brass. I tried H1000, Retumbo, and finally settled on reloader25. The starting load was 88.0 and I worked up to 93.0. This gave me 3069 with no signs of excess pressure. Oh yes, the primer was a Federal 215. The bullets were seated about ¼ inch into the case and finished seating when the bolt was closed. This gave me an OAL of 3.670.

The Test.
Testing was done over 2 days. Shots were fired over a bench rest with a windage and elevation adjustable front rest and “bunny ear” rear rest. Twenty 3 shot groups were fired allowing the barrel to cool completely. The smallest group measured .760 and the largest was 1.140. The overall average figured out to .992. Mission accomplished, but just barely. So what good is this load? Not much unless unless you like poking holes in paper. Next step will be to neck size, seat to correct OAL and see how they shoot. Might make a good hunting load that way.

Where did you get the .3015" sizer? Lee has some push through sizer but not that size. I don't have axcess to a lath or milling machine anymore. Thanks Josefczyk

[pdawg_shooter]

I started with a .285 from Lee and lapped it out with an expandable brass lap.

[jaydee1445]

I'm building a "practical" rifle in .308 from a Savage 10 action for hunting and defense out to 600 yd. I like the 311284 boolit and am intrigued by patching. I plan on using a Douglas XX air gaged barrel, 22" long with a .820 taper @ the muzzle in a Richard's Microfit Cascade classic stock. I chose 22' for weight savings, don't feel a couple of 100 fps is worth the weight for 24" or 26".
I have a choice of 10, 12, or 14 twist, but I'm torn between 12 or 14.
14 was mentioned in this thread for soft lead but 12 would shoot surplus 7.62 in a pinch. What do Y'all think?

[docone31]

To be real honest, I do not think twist makes much difference with paper. I have several .30s, 30-06, and .308/7.62.
I have found, jacketeds are lower on POI, paper is much higher/flatter. With my .30s I have several twists. They are all much more accurate with paper, all twists. My favourite, .308 is an Adams and Bennett barrel, .920 full length. That barrel is the most accurate one I have!
I figuired it was a junker to just fill an action. I was wrong! I got the Fajen stock to fit it. Best rifle I have aside from my Ishapore 7.62! Go figuire. Both reciever sighted with front aperature.
I use my first venture into paper patching, the Lee .30cal 180gn sized to .308, wrapped twice with notebook/printer paper, sized to .309.
I had wanted to do full sizing to .301, then wrap, but frankly I am not sure I would get better results that way.
With my .308s I use 40gns of Surplus 4895. No carbon on the neck, long case life with full length sizing!
I spent so many years trying to make jacketeds work for me. I could never get any close together shots at 100yds. I went to paper just to make my Enfield SMLE #1MKIII even hit the berm. It has the sloppy bore I had read about. Even that rifle with paper is impressive indeed.
I like Savage actions. I like the head spaceing feature on the barrel. They have alot of potential. If you want to build a .30 for patching, I would use almost any barrel. Patching sure makes my milsurps talk at the range. So any heavy barrel would mostly do. I stumbled on the Adams and Bennett. That is a real sleeper. Good quality. You would need to modify the threading for the exteral head space collar but there is room for that. I was going to chamber mine in 06, but the gunsmith couldn't get out of the box. Oh well, I went to .308 and found I really like the cartridge!
Food for thought.
I might even consider a factory Savage heavy barrel for your project. I did well with mine years ago.

[jaydee1445]

For what I would spend on a douglas I could get a fluted ER Shaw. That would be even lighter.:twisted:
The main reason for the XX airguaged Douglass is they measure .0001" or less variation from one end to the other. To get cast to shoot I have had to fire lap my barrels to remove tight spots. One less variable with a premium barrel.:-D

[docone31]

I size my patchings .005 smaller than groove, smear Clover on the patch, lightly, fire 20 off and have a mirror barrel.
I accidently stumbled on that when I had a batch of undersized patches and wondered what if?
Not being a traditional fire lap, it polished more than cut.
After doing that, plain paper to size fine polished the bore. Now it is a smooth shooter.
I had actual hammer marks in the bore. You could see them looking down the bore.
All gone!
It sounds like you want a Douglas. I do not blame you. They are goodies.
By the by, jacketeds shoot better out of my patch shined bores now.
Hmmm.