.429 or .430 diameter bullets for 44 mag Black Hawk

[lefty_red]

I just traded for a 4.75" Black Hawk 44 magumn. I was wanting to get a LEE mould bullet mould in 240 grains for "small game" hunting/plinking and maybe a 300 grain for black bear and large deer. But I'm a little confused on the diameter sizes for the 44 mag.

Do I need to size the .430 bullet down to .429 through a sizer?

Does it matter if the diameter is .430 or .429?

I know I might have to open up the cyclinder throat, also.

Thanks for any help.

[9.3X62AL]

Have you slugged the barrel for groove diameter--or slugged the existing throats? The Ruger 44's don't have the poor reputation for dimensional poetry that some of the 45's have/had. You might be "good to go" as it sits.

Welcome to the board!

[lefty_red]

HOw do I slug the barrel? Or does a gunsmith need to do that?

[Dale53]

The barrel is not the critical dimension on a revolver. The cylinder throat is the critical dimension. Carefully clean the cylinder throats completely. Your bullets should be of a size that will just barely push thru the cylinder throats with something like a new (unsharpened) pencil. Ideally, the throats would be .430". At any rate, if you cannot push the .430" bullet thru the throat, size them to .429" and try them. I am betting that .430" will go thru. If they do, you are home free. It is best that the cylinder throats be slightly larger than the barrel grove diameter.

My Ruger Super Blackhawk and Redhawk both will accept .430" bullets and both shoot extremely well. I have long used the Keith 429421 and now the Lee 310 gr RF GC bullet. I and several competent revolver shooters have proved to our satisfaction that the Lee 310 gr bullet with a full charge of H110, Win 296, or Carbine Ball (WC820) behind it is the most accurate combination that we have seen in the .44 magnum at up to 100 yards. We have not tested it beyond 100 yards, so I can make no statement regarding truly long range.

I and Frank Siever (the "F" in F&M Reloading, a Lee Distributor) designed the 310 gr bullet for an Alaskan bear hunt that Frank took a few years ago. As chance would have it, I ended up being the first to take a head of big game (10 point white tail deer) with this bullet. It was a simple one shot kill that unfortunately proved little (broken neck at 25 yards - the Keith bullet would have done as well). However, with the large meplat and really excellent 100 yard accuracy, the Lee 310 bullet is definitely a premium bullet from a VERY inexpensive mould. Lee has since produced a similar .45 Colt 300 gr RF GC (round flat, gas checked) bullet.

Dale53

[lefty_red]

Ok, thanks for the info.

I used LEE mould for my BP bullets and I never understood why others were selling their moulds at three times the price!

Also, I'm about a wuss when it comes to recoil. Is their a good load for the heavy cast bullet, out to 75 yards, that doesn't knock my teeth out?

[BruceB]

It's quite possible to get a bit TOO concerned with precise +/- .001" dimensions in revolvers. It can develop into the classic angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin situation, meaning much ado about very little.

As time passes, I find simplification (K-I-S-S) has certain charms (when I can get away with it), and this is one of those cases. The most critical factor in the revolver's cast bullets is that the bullets should NOT fall through the throats, and I have found that as long as this is the case, it really doesn't matter much, within reason, just HOW much oversize they are. With four different .44s of S&W and Ruger manufacture on hand, I simply size everything at .431" and get fine performance at all velocities, plain-base or gaschecked. The bullets are unhardened aircooled wheelweight alloy for all revolver loads. I can assure you that my boolits will NOT pass through the throats without rather firm persuasion.

Likewise for my .357s, all S&Ws, I size at .359" and get the same sort of performance with no problems at all.

I believe the only real possibly-problematic factor in loading this way is that the cartridges MUST be able to chamber freely, even in a fouled gun. If I found that a .429" bullet was too small, I'd go right up to a .431 or even .432" size. The tolerances we find in bullet-sizing dies make the increase of .001" a very iffy proposition, and replacing a .429 die with a .430 may well give you EXACTLY the same bullet size! Trust me, I've seen it....

[lefty_red]

Bruce

You're right about that. I'm just making sure I'm not using a bullet too big for the 44 magumn, and my hunting bullets are water quenched. I just don't want to buy the wrong bullet mould. It may be a LEE, but I'm on a tight budget right now. Thanks for the insight.

[Bass Ackward]

Well, I have been refreshing my memory of late and find that bullet diameter in a wheeler is a fluid thing.

I have loads that are .002 below throat and .001 below bore size that shoot very well. On the large side, a guy I know that has a Super Redhawk uses .439s (no typo) because that is a nice push fit in the chambers of his handgun. That is .006 over his throat and a full .010 over bore. Now that really appears excessive to me, but he does 4" - 6" at 200 yards with it. And those are truely hard.

So from the tendencies I see, there are no clear tendencies to report for any caliber. A lot of the diameter issue is based on what powder burn ranges you tend to operate in, the type and strength of your handgun, and what power level you need for what ever the reason.

As far as what your handgun wants, ask it. It will show you plainly enough.

[chunkum]

For reasons known only to those angels congregating on the head of that pin, .44 mags I have known have not been very particular about exact sizing. It's like, ".431, .429, what do I care". My ROMSBH will shoot 'em all and usually give me 1 1/2 - 2" max at 50 yds from the bench with almost any decent bullet. Try this approach with your .45 Colts and you'll find patterns on your target rather than groups. I have no idea why this is true and my rationalization would likely be boring.

For a load not unpleasant to shoot in your BlackHawk yet effective in the field try 20.5 grs of Lil'Gun with the classic Keith type 240 gr cast plain base. I get 1360 fps in my 7.5" OMSBH and good accuracy. This is a moderate load that gave consistant clover leafs at 35 yds from a casual rest. Or if you like the 310 gr Lee, try it with 18.5 grs. I have a Saeco 300 gr mould coming and have plans for the Lil'Gun for it. You'll should be tickled to death with the Ruger 44 mag. It's a very versatile revolver.

[Dale53]

leftyred;
I have to say that probably the most important factor in recoil is bullet weight. Of course, if you double the velocity with a given bullet the recoil is going up, also. Unless your load is VERY low velocity, a 300+ gr bullet in a .44 magnum is going to recoil.

Frankly, when I load a .44 magnum, I use the full load. When I want a low recoiling load, I am not at all adverse to picking up a .38 special wadcutter load or even, gasp(:>)), a .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Magnum.

If you have a real need for a heavy bullet at as low recoil as you can, you can tailor a load to your preference. Most reloading manuals have loads that will go under 1000 fps. A 300+ bullet at 750 fps is not to be sneezed at (for defense, etc). Recoil at that level should be relatively minor.

Dale53

[44man]

I confess to not trying Lil Gun (no money for powder) but the best load I have for the Lee 310 is 21.5 gr's of 296 and the Fed 150 primer. Same load for the LBT 320 gr boolit. This has shot well under 1" at 50 yd's.
I would stick with .430 to .432 for the boolit size. As long as you can push the boolit through the throats with your thumb you are good to go.
The Lee has shot good to over 200 meters for me. It is a great boolit. I don't size them, just hand lube (Felix lube, of course) and push through an oversize Lee sizer to remove excess lube.

[lefty_red]

Ok, that makes sense about the heavier bullet having more recoil. I doubt I really need a 300-310 grain bullet, but its just that I REALLY like the LEEs desing on this bullet. As for deer I don't think a 200-240 grain would be "undergunned", so I tink I'll just stick to that then.

I picked the 44mag cause:
1) its barrel length, 4.75"
2) is fits my budget, cheap
3) the versitility (sp?), aka it can do alot of things.

I really would like a BH in every caliber, but with two Princesses and a Prince at home, I've got to stick with just one or two that can be loaded up and down. I really think a 357 would do it for deer and chucks, but it might be pushing it for MO black bear. So, I went with the 44 mag. Actually I REALLY wanted the 45LC/45ACP conversion, but it had a 5.5" barrel (but I could live with it), and I heard alot of bad things about the cyclinder throats and forcing cones. So, since I couldn't afford the possibility of a gunsmith bill on a new gun, and I won't, I settled on the 44 mag. I also want "to get to know" this gun, I find that when I use one gun for about everyting, I'm better with it.

Thanks for the advise and I will keep updating this when I get some bullets casted and ready.

[9.3X62AL]

Lots of dittoes to all the above. My 44's (S&W M-624 and Ruger RH) both get .431" boolits, and don't complain at all. I do the same thing that Bruce B describes--.431" for the 44's, and .359" for the 38/357's. The .429 sizer services the 44-40 WCF.

[Ricochet]

I used to buy factory swaged 240 gr. lead semi-wadcutter gas checked bullets from Winchester that came at .433" diameter for my Super Blackhawk. They were great. I have a few remaining of later ones that are at .430". They work fine, too.

[Shuz]

Bruce said it well about the K.I.S.S. principle when it comes to sizing. I have 13 ea .44 mag revolvers that I load for an I find that they all shoot .431 boolits very well. Some shoot .429 well and some shoot .430 boolits well, but they all shoot .431 well. "Well" is defined by me as 1-1/2" or less, 5 shot groups from a rest at 25 yds with no leading.--Shuz

[mike in co]

despite what it says next to my name, i started casting back on shooters. i knew next to nothing, and just followed the info the guys there( now here) gave me.
the gun was a SRH in 44 mag with a 7.5 bbl the task was to knock down heavy steel at 50 yds.
i used water quenched ww in a 245 gc. but sizing was my question too.
i slugged my throats and discovered a very consistant .4326 throats....yuk!
i cast close to 432 with a beagled mould, then sized at 432.

my early loads shot sub 1" at 25 yds. the best was 5/8". that was at 1340 fps without a gascheck, and 3/4" at 1350 fps gc.

i currently shoot an lbt 280 plain base at about 1050 ,and again under 1" at 25 yds.

the best i can tell is you really need to be very close to the throat dia for the best accuracy, while good accuracy can be had with a less precise fit.

just keep asking questions...

[454PB]

I presently own several .44 mags, and have owned many over the years. The Rugers that I have owned usually have .431" throats. Most all of my boolits are sized .430 and shoot just fine, including the Lee 310 gr. G.C.

The problem I see with sizing too big is that case sizing dies are generally designed for .429" to .430". When you start shoving .433" or larger bullets into the sized cases, you end up with deformed boolits and bulged cases. In addition, the constant "downsizing/upsizing" shortens brass life.

As long as I get good accuracy, no leading, and brass life that equals or exceeds 10 loadings, I'll stay with .430".