Any interest/ honcho copy of Lyman 311316 [Archive]

218bee

01-19-2009, 05:34 PM

I have a couple of 32/20's that I want to cast for and have heard nothing but good things about the Lyman #311316 115-120 with a gas check for this cartridge. Wondering if there is enough interest for such a mold?? Lyman stopped making them and I have been searching for one but so far have not found one. I thought I'd throw this out to see if any interest and if so who could Honcho. I personally would like to see an as cast diameter of about .314 as my particular firearms have somewhat large bores. What say ye???

RugerFan

01-19-2009, 06:24 PM

That's a little light for my purposes, but I might be persuaded. Got a potential drawing to look at?

44mag1

01-19-2009, 07:46 PM

I have a 311316. is this similar

buffalorunner

01-19-2009, 08:17 PM

Did you mean a 311316? I would be in for one of those.

218bee

01-20-2009, 06:07 AM

sorry I did mean 311316.I'd sure like to find one. Thought of trying to make a copy on Mountain Man Moulds but I ain't too swift at that.

Blammer

01-20-2009, 06:44 AM

I would happily draw you one if you need.

Let me know.

mold maker

01-20-2009, 07:21 AM

How would it do as a light plinking load in a 303 enfield?

WARD O

01-20-2009, 07:56 AM

That should be a great boolit for the 32 H&R and that new 327 Mag as well. I would like one of these.

Go into CASTPICS at the bottom of this page and check out Lyman moulds pictures for the 311316.

MNruss

01-20-2009, 09:16 AM

The Lee C309-113F is similar, but a larger dia. could make it more useful.
Now - PB or GC?
Russ

Bret4207

01-20-2009, 11:01 AM

I'm a HUGE fan of the 311316, it'll work for any 30 cal cartridge, the 32S+W, Long, Mag and 327, 32 Auto, some "Fat" 30's like the SKS round, 303 Brit and 7.62 Rooski, anything between say .310 and .314. My example casts .314+ in WW alloy.

The only question I would have you ponder is do you want it GC or PB? The GC design works great, but that little short boolit is not friendly to big fingers and little GC's, plus there's the cost. A PB copy would be just enough different from the 311008 that it might work better than the 311008. Some say the 316 is a 008 with a GC, no way! They're different in several areas.

Just something to think about. I'll keep an eye on this one. I might be able to come up with some $$$ for my favorite design.

218bee

01-20-2009, 02:15 PM

I was thinking gas check just because I've heard nothing but good things about this bullet. How about a 6 banger with three plain base and three gas checks???

DAFzipper

01-20-2009, 02:35 PM

I might be in. Would like someone other than Lee. The 8-12 month wait stinks. Would be willing to pay more for faster delivery.

monadnock#5

01-20-2009, 04:49 PM

I might be in. Would like someone other than Lee. The 8-12 month wait stinks. Would be willing to pay more for faster delivery.

I'm sure NEI would make these with or without gas checks, or half and half. I've got my eye on this one too.

dromia

01-20-2009, 10:53 PM

PB or half GC half PB would suit me. NEI four holer would be good.

218bee

01-21-2009, 06:39 AM

sounds like there is some interest. not sure how to get this all rolling. probably need at least 15 or so???

SPRINGFIELDM141972

01-21-2009, 02:18 PM

I'd be in for a DC or a 4 holer. I just don't shoot enough rifle to justify a 6 banger mold. Also, since I'm able to ask for everything (seldom get it:) ), I would like a half and half PB/GC.

Regards,
Everett

Blammer

01-21-2009, 04:26 PM

If we can get 12 we'll try Old West Bullet Moulds for the moulds. If you want a plain base and a GC in the same mould it will only be an extra $10 I think.

If anyone has some samples they'd send me for correct dimensions, or just PM me with what they are, I'll try to get a drawing up, maybe that would attract some more people and then we can also comment on design requirements. Dia, nose length, etc....

Slowpoke

01-21-2009, 05:53 PM

Give me your address in a PM and I will send you a couple from a single cavity IDEAL.

I would be in for a mould from Old West, GC for me.

good luck

218bee

01-22-2009, 06:34 AM

Can someone send Blammer a few from a Lyman 311316????

manleyjt

01-22-2009, 06:38 AM

I will also be watching this thread.

buffalorunner

01-22-2009, 03:08 PM

I would take a PB 2,3,or 4 holer from Old West

ELFEGO BACA

01-22-2009, 10:50 PM

A 'while back' I picked up a Lee 6 cavity 32-120RF from this web site.

It casts out about 122 grains from my alloy. I cast over 400 of them this morning!

I originally used it for my Marlin 32-20. It has a plain base and flat point - excellent features.

Later I found it works as well in my M1 30 carbine.

It is a great bullet for 200 yard offhand plinking in either rifle.

Blammer

01-23-2009, 07:55 AM

PM sent to slowpoke

Dean D.

01-23-2009, 12:56 PM

I have a Lyman 311316 DC, holler if you need some samples.

218bee

01-23-2009, 05:48 PM

Dean, just curious what dia. bullet drops from your mould/ with what alloy. That is the mould I am looking for. I would like to see one that drops bullets at .314 or so but that may be wishful thinking. I have two old revolvers with rather large bores.

Dean D.

01-23-2009, 08:00 PM

218Bee - I am going to cast up a batch this weekend so I can send Blammer some. I do not have any un-sized at the moment. I will post what it drops after I get some cast.

Dean D.

01-23-2009, 11:16 PM

Ok, I cast a batch up tonite and with my rinky-dink pair of dial calipers it looks like they are running .3115 - .312. That is measured across the drive band just behind the crimp groove. On Monday I will be mailing Blammer a handful to play with. I hope he may be able to test the alloy as I do not have a test kit and I did not make the ingots so I do not know their ingredients. I did try to scratch one of the ingots and was barely able to leave a mark with my thumbnail. I need to invest in a test kit for myself.

All my lead was cast into ingots by my Uncle and I do not know what he used for material. I suspect since he was a lineman himself that he used alot of insulator pin thread material (the steel crossarm pins that they screw insulators onto has molded lead threads on the ends of them) and I don't know how hard that lead runs. He shot this mix in his Colt SAA .45 LC for years with no leading problems.

Dean D.

01-23-2009, 11:36 PM

BTW, I'd like to get on the GB list for one also. After casting tonight I discovered that my 311316 is a single cavity. My 311008 is the DC. I prefer the GC 311316 in my rifles and it sure would be nice to be dropping multiple boolits at a time.

dromia

01-23-2009, 11:42 PM

monadnock#5

01-24-2009, 06:04 AM

Old West Bullet Moulds, I'd run with that. :-D

I concur.:drinks:

Dark Helmet

01-24-2009, 11:41 AM

What is the nose length on this mold?

Dean D.

01-24-2009, 11:51 AM

Roughly .225 from meplat to first band just ahead of the crimp groove. Bad eyes and dial caliper do not make for accurate measurements...LOL. Meplat measures rougly .200

Best I can do with the tools at hand.

badgeredd

01-25-2009, 10:16 AM

I might be in. Would like someone other than Lee. The 8-12 month wait stinks. Would be willing to pay more for faster delivery.

I concur, too long of a wait. I'd be interested in a GC version, 'cause it oughta work ok in a few diiferent rifles besides the 32-20 target cartridge, like a SKS.

Edd

Dean D.

01-25-2009, 02:47 PM

Phillip B. Sharpe lists a number of loads for this boolit in just about all his listed .30 chamberings. My stepson and I have loaded up a box of 30-40 Krag to try out using S.R. 4759. 5 each at 12.5 gr., 13.0 gr., 13.5 gr. and 14.0gr. The 16.0 gr. load for a 115gr boolit is listed @ 1630fps. 100gr lead boolit with 12.5 gr @ 1440fps. I'll let you know how they work out when we get a chance to group them. I have never loaded 4759 before but Mr. Sharpe lists it for reduced loads in a number of medium to large case capacity cartridges and light cast boolits.

45 2.1

01-26-2009, 05:03 AM

Willbird ran a copy of the 311008 a couple of years ago. Many people have been very happy with it a a plinker out of most of the 30 caliber rifles and handguns. Take a look, a second run would probably go over pretty well.

Dean D.

01-26-2009, 09:00 AM

15 unsized boolits from my Lyman 311316 are going out in priority mail today to Blammer. Hopefully he will have them later this week.

Blammer

01-28-2009, 05:59 PM

Ok I got samples from two people today! Thanks Dean D and Slowpoke.

Here is a preliminary drawing.

The bottom one is EXACTLY like the samples I got. Amazingly enough both samples measured really close!

The top one is one I just modified to square lube grooves as you can see, and the middle one was for more of a radius instead of an angle.

I'll be putting some dimensions on one here, but this is preliminary work. So lets hash out what ya want!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/311316compare.jpg

monadnock#5

01-28-2009, 06:06 PM

Nice work Blammer. Thank you for staying on top of this!

Dean D.

01-28-2009, 06:12 PM

Looks good Blammer, I'm glad the package arrived.

Do you by chance have the ability to test the hardness of the samples I sent you? No biggie if not, but I would be curious to hear how hard my unknown alloy is.

Great work on the drawings and thanks for all your hard work!

Blammer

01-28-2009, 06:15 PM

I do not have an alloy hardness tester, but I have a local friend who does. Let me see if I can get them to him. Unfortunately it will not be anytime soon... sorry.

Dean D.

01-28-2009, 06:21 PM

No hurry Blammer. I've only been casting this mix for about 20 years, I think I can wait a while longer....LMAO

DaveD

01-28-2009, 06:37 PM

Blammer,
My personal preferrence is the top one with the crimp groove. Should make a great "bunny" round for the 30-30.

Dean D.

01-28-2009, 07:04 PM

I'd have to agree with DaveD, I like the revamped crimp groove and the squared lube grooves.

buffalorunner

01-29-2009, 02:58 PM

The top one looks best to me as long as it will be avalible PB.

218bee

01-30-2009, 05:10 AM

I like the top also. My concern is diameter. Personally I'd want it to drop bullets at .314. How would that work for everyone else?? And are we thinking a 4 banger with two gc and two pb?

mold maker

01-30-2009, 06:05 AM

I've gotta be the odd fellow. The rounded lube groove would drop easier, but I do like the tapered crimp groove. I doubt if my rifles would know the difference.

Blammer

01-30-2009, 06:44 AM

An option would be to increase the angle on the lube groove to allow for easier dropping from the mould. No real loss in lube capacity will be lost.

badgeredd

01-30-2009, 07:02 AM

My preference would also be the top one with the middle one a second choice. To me the bottom one looks like the lube could run out before exiting the barrel on a rifle with much velocity, and I am not really a round groove fan either.

Edd

BTW is Old West the preferred supplier?

felix

01-30-2009, 07:36 AM

Because the Lee soupcan flies so well, it would be nice to compare the centers of gravity and pressure of this design to that of the Lee (113F). What you are looking for is the distance between the two centers. The closer they are together, the better. Alter the grooves (including crimp(s)) for correction. Sharp corners do nothing for accuracy, but sure help boolit drop immensely. ... felix

Blammer

01-31-2009, 10:00 AM

OWBM is a good mould maker, but after conversing with him the other day he is reluctant to take on any new work at the moment. So, we wait, or find someone else for the meantime.

DaveD

01-31-2009, 11:42 AM

So the only thing wrong with Lee is the lead time? If so, is there a big problem with anyone to wait?

RugerFan

02-07-2009, 08:56 AM

Is there still interest here?

Mohillbilly

02-08-2009, 12:45 AM

I like the looks of the top one at .314 gr,but agree that an angled grease grove one would drop better.I'd like a half'nhalf,or a three hole with two checked and one plain.

Bret4207

02-11-2009, 04:21 AM

better stick with the top drawing with a real crimp groove. Sometimes the lite boolit needs a real crimp to light some powders like 2400.

shdwlkr

02-12-2009, 11:59 AM

buffalorunner

02-12-2009, 04:00 PM

I would rather wait 6 months for an OWBM, than 12 months for a Lee
I would rather wait 12 months for an OWBM, than 12 months for a Lee

218bee

02-12-2009, 05:39 PM

Any more thoughts on diameter (.314) and if we should try to get a mold with both GC and PB in same mould??

buffalorunner

03-03-2009, 09:38 AM

I would really like a .314 diam. With the price of gaschecks, I would want a pb.

Slow Elk 45/70

03-04-2009, 05:40 AM

I will go for the GC version or a 4 holer 1/2 & 1/2 GC/PB , if the wait isn't time is reasonable

Rattlesnake Charlie

03-04-2009, 07:44 PM

I'm interested, regardless of who manufactures the mold.

I would require crimp groove.

Need .314 for worn out .32-20 and 7.62x54R.

As for gas check or plain base, I like the idea of half-and-half.
If not available, I want all plain base.

I am prepared to send check now.
I'm investing in bullet molds instead of the stock market.

Outdoors

03-04-2009, 09:51 PM

I'm interested.
Angled crimp groove is my preference, 314 dia.
Is there a cost yet?

Pat

Dean D.

03-05-2009, 08:11 AM

So far no one has offered to Honcho this GB so until someone does it remains static.

218bee

03-05-2009, 05:37 PM

Lets try and get it going

Dean D.

03-07-2009, 07:27 PM

I had Ken change the title for us to reflect the correct mold #. Hopefully that will help draw more interest.

Blammer

03-07-2009, 08:31 PM

Ok here is a dim drawing. I'm hearing rumbling you want a diff dia?

Here is what I have so far. Who ever honcho's it just shoot me a PM and I'll modify the drawing for the diameter you want.

In the mean time... :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/311316GC_FP.jpg

Jack Stanley

03-08-2009, 07:07 AM

I like the idea of a four cavity mould and 2gc and 2pb and .314 dia. As to who makes them why not find someone new even if we have to wait. If you use lee we wait 8-12 months so if someone can do it in 6-8 months we are still ahead and it would be nice to let Lee know that they aren't the only mould makers interested in our money.
Now to start putting money in the mould account and hope you guys give enough time to have enough to get one

It would be nice to find a company that will make a good product that the customer wants . To bad Lyman isn't interested and to bad Magma is so expensive .
I called Magma about having a very common thirty cal mold made and I would have paid for it myself . I was surprised to find they didn't have it in their inventory . I wasn't going to pay for the cherry that would have been equal to the cost of the mold .

Jack

C1PNR

03-09-2009, 03:17 PM

I want one exactly as shown in post #65! I think it's the right diameter at .314 and I like the gas check.

Now, who can we get to cut it to our specifications, and who wants the dirty job of Honcho?[smilie=1:

Oh, and how much interest is there really for the mould as drawn in #65, which is probably the most important question.:coffee:

buffalorunner

03-09-2009, 04:13 PM

Post 65 is good enough for me, as long as it will be avalible PB.

WARD O

03-10-2009, 03:01 PM

This is a good looking bullet and I would like to see it get started - do we need to do some kind of a poll or something to determine what is most desired - plain base or gas check?

Ward

Marine Sgt 2111

03-12-2009, 06:15 PM

Count me in on this one if it gets started. I have a Marlin in .32-20 to feed.

HandgunHTR

03-14-2009, 03:09 PM

Well guys, I am new here but have been a member of Speciality Pistols for a while.

I like the idea of a 4 (or 6) banger with half GC and half PB.

I have a .308 bore 32-20 Contender barrel and I think this bullet would be great for shooting Field Pistol.

I might could use it as a good plinking bullet for my .30 Herrett as well.

If we get this one off the ground, I would be interested.

uncowboy

03-15-2009, 03:03 PM

I would like one as well I have the Lyman orig in a DC But 6 Banger 3 GC 3PB Would be the bomb. J.Michael

shdwlkr

03-16-2009, 06:01 PM

Ok got to ask what does a honcho on one of these group mold buys have to do really I just might be interested in this if I know what I am in for. If you are or have been a honcho and would like to PM me please do I really mean I am interested.

Bret4207

03-17-2009, 04:42 AM

If it flies I'm in for at least 1, probably 2.

SwedeNelson

03-17-2009, 02:46 PM

If there is any interest - I would like to offer runing
this through the machine shop I have on line.

See my post " Moulds-What do you think" for pricing.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=48982

Could base it on two cavity moulds and 10 orders.
Unless others would like something else.

Swede Nelson

shdwlkr

03-17-2009, 06:47 PM

Ok guys I am going to hang myself and honcho this mold.
I have been in touch with Blammer and we are changing the mold just a little first we are reducing the shank on the bullet to as short as we can for those who might want to ream out the mold for plain base. Second we are going with a minimum diameter of .312.
The mold is going to be gc design and I will get back as soon as I know who our mold maker is going to be. I am looking at more then a double mold but don't know if it will be a 6 holer yet hope to let you know asap.
more as soon as I know

Blammer

03-17-2009, 07:02 PM

The basic premise for reducing the GC shank lenght will be for those who will want to ream out a few cavities to plain base.

This will ensure that the base driving band won't be .15 long.

shdwlkr will also enquire (or inquire not sure what is right) to see if both plain base and GC can be made on the same mould from the maker.

shdwlkr will give some details as he gets them.

SwedeNelson

03-17-2009, 07:04 PM

Shdwlkr

Offer steal stands.
Could be a five cavity just as easy.
(Could do two PB and three GC or what ever.)

A Old West's brass three cavity would be sweet also.

Thanks
Swede Nelson

SwedeNelson

03-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Blammer/Shdwlkr

Got your PM.
Will get back to you ASAP with more info.

Thanks
Swede Nelson

Blammer

03-17-2009, 07:44 PM

Cool!

shdwlkr

03-18-2009, 10:29 AM

Swede got back to me and we are working through some details on the prototype mold and how to get it to me for testing and just what it will be.
more as I know this is getting exciting for me and I hope you as well.
As I said in the beginning as I know something you will know something that is the way I do things

Blammer

03-18-2009, 06:25 PM

Can we get a headcount on who wants a plain base AND a GC bullet in the same mould?

If it's a 5 cavity, how many GC and how many PB do you want?

and who wants just one type?

Dean D.

03-18-2009, 06:45 PM

Put me down for 1 - ALL GC

Thanks DJ!

Marine Sgt 2111

03-18-2009, 07:52 PM

put me in for one, all gc:Fire:

shdwlkr

03-18-2009, 08:14 PM

Marine Sgt 2111
keep watching we are working through the process here so no definite date yet. As soon as the bugs are worked out I will let everyone know and let the fun begin but that hasn't happened yet.

dromia

03-18-2009, 11:37 PM

Three PB and two GC for me.

WARD O

03-19-2009, 08:29 AM

I intend to use this in my 32 H&R's and thus far they seem to prefer the .313 diameter bullets. Can I assume that I will probably be happy with the .312 spec when you consider the tolerances?

I have never had blocks that will go both plain and gas check so that could be kinda fun for something new. Three gas checks to two plain base for a choice but I am not real particular so will go with the popular choice as either would work fine for me.

Ward

shdwlkr

03-19-2009, 09:46 AM

Ward
keep watching this thread as things become known you will read it here from me the honcho who is ridding this project anything else is just hear say. Unless Blammer tells you something as he is working on this with me so we get what we are looking for.

it is not certain yet beyond gc mold is going to be available everything is still in the talking and putting together drawings stage. So I can't tell you beyond the fact it will be gc design and in a mold of maybe 5/6 cavities.
There are a lot of ideas floating right now and when they become real I will post here. I am hoping to have something different to offer is all I can say right now.
I can say something else and that is I understand being a honcho much better now and am so glad I stuck my neck out to be one so far and things are just so much fun to take your idea and the fact it might become a bullet that others are pleased with is just such a rush. We have some of the greatest guys here who honcho all these different bullet molds that we buy.

shdwlkr

03-19-2009, 09:56 AM

Ward said
I intend to use this in my 32 H&R's and thus far they seem to prefer the .313 diameter bullets. Can I assume that I will probably be happy with the .312 spec when you consider the tolerances?
Right now the range on the mold tolerances is looking like.312-.314 I changed with the idea of it working in more firearms, 32-20, 32 H&R mag, 327 and even in some 30-30 as a light round.
It will work in my 32-20, 30-30 and might even work in my 06 as a light round. I don't have a 327 or 32 H&R but don't see why it wouldn't work.
Once again when I have a working copy of the mold I can answer way more questions and will. The weight of the bullet is in the 112 grain area and that is ww alloy which is what I use most.
This is by no means my first and last as I have already started on others that I would like to see made only you guys can tell me if they will be when they hit the board.
I thought buying levers was a disease but it is nothing compared to getting your own idea of a bullet drawn up and maybe made and to be able to shoot it. I just don't know how to say how much fun it is and I hope it to always be and yes there will be some bumps but they might be fun also as it is a learning process.

HandgunHTR

03-19-2009, 06:02 PM

I would prefer all GC, but 3 GC-2 PB would be fine with me as well.

shdwlkr - Thank you very much for stepping up an Honchoing this one.

shdwlkr

03-20-2009, 07:46 AM

HangunHTR
I have been sitting on the side of the road wondering how to get into a honcho roll for a while and now I am busy with this one and several more that I hope will all get made also. Look for another one from me once this one is over and we are waiting for the results. If you have been following the posts since I jumped in I am really upbeat that we will have something different here and I like being the one to take a change on the way of doing things.
As has been said before stay tuned a lot is going on in the background that can't be discussed here as it all part of getting the mold designed, built, test mold sent to me and Blammer and testing it and shooting it and taking pictures for you guys to see what we where able to get and then the mad dash to buy.
I am in hopes we can this all done in a short time frame but as we all know you don't rush the making of a mold or design as it leads to many headaches later and I for one would rather wait an extra week or two to have a great mold as to rush it and end up with another ok mold or worse a piece of scarp metal.
Right now we are waiting on the final drawings from Blammer

Blammer

03-20-2009, 08:24 AM

oh , right. PUT THE PRESSURE ON ME! lol :)

I'll be out of town this weekend getting my Pistol Certification, so if I can't get it done today you'll have to wait till Mon on the final drawing.

Sorry.

shdwlkr

03-20-2009, 03:02 PM

Blammer
don't let all the pressure ruin your time getting your pistol certification. You know what I said about the drawing when we talked. I just stated where we are in the process and when we get the correct drawing I will be just plain excited because we will have gotten past one hurtle and that is a very good thing.
I am in a hurry but not enough of one to want anything messed up.
Have fun and get certified we need more certified pistol owners. I haven't got mine yet as I want to go to NRA nationals in May so that will be my time missing in action and then when I get my funds for my ccw I will be gone most of one weekend because of the hours needed to be certified I think it is something like 15 hours.
What would be the greatest would be if I could get the funds to go to Front sight and go through there training.
Have a great time and when you get a few minutes finish the drawing and then you can start working on the next one you have of mine and I will try and get two more to you soon so we can have some more fun.

Blammer

03-20-2009, 05:40 PM

Thanks,

Hopefully I'll be a NRA Certified Pistol Instructor after it's all said and done. :)

Wish me luck!

Mtman314

03-20-2009, 07:39 PM

good luck

ArcticGoose

03-20-2009, 08:10 PM

I'm new here and am just getting set up for casting. I have a Winchester 53 in 32-20 I need to start casting for. This mould with the GC's sounds like just what I need.

shdwlkr

03-21-2009, 07:36 AM

Blammer
Best of luck and shoot stragiht

Wayne S

03-21-2009, 08:09 AM

Since we're starting from square one here, what do you'll think is a working ID on the sprue plate hole ?, the ones in my 7MM and 30 cal molds measure +- .150, and I THINK this is to big. I know we're not talking B.R. type boolits here espically from a 6 holler here but ???

sundog

03-21-2009, 08:29 AM

Sprue hole dia is smaller is better. Then each caster can adjust it to whatever size he wants.

Dean D.

03-21-2009, 10:39 AM

FWIW, the sprue plate hole on the Lyman 311316 mold that provided the pattern boolits for DJ to draw these with has a sprue hole measuring 0.144".

SwedeNelson

03-22-2009, 11:09 AM

How about 39 to 40 percent of bullet diameter?
Just something to work with.
.224 = .087
.308 = .120
.452 = .176

Swede Nelson

missionary5155

03-22-2009, 11:17 AM

Three PB and two GC for me.
I would go fo one of these... or the reverse

Wayne S

03-22-2009, 01:12 PM

How about 39 to 40 percent of bullet diameter?
Just something to work with.
.224 = .087
.308 = .120
.452 = .176

Swede NelsonLooks like some working numbers to me, one can always go a bit bigger, can't go smaller

buffalorunner

03-22-2009, 01:41 PM

I intend to use this boolit in my 32-20 as an edible small game round. Velocities will be held under 1300 fps. Because of this, i want all cavities in the mold i purchase to be pb. I do not need the added expense of gas checks.

Fugowii

03-22-2009, 02:11 PM

I would be interested in this for my .32 H&R (.313) and would go with 3PB min.

Mtman314

03-22-2009, 10:10 PM

I'd be interest in your 314 mould. some with and some without GC

shdwlkr

03-23-2009, 01:29 PM

blammer
you had the weekend so are you certified yet? And while I am at it how's the drawing going?
Ha Ha
hope you did well and had a good weekend. Got my college homework done and now I have my honey do list to work on which will never be done but it keeps me busy.

Blammer

03-23-2009, 02:21 PM

Ok, it's a two weekend deal for the Instructor certification. :)

I just finished the drawing and here is it.

Shdwlkr, I'll email you some better copies for you to work with.

Here are lots of pics with descriptions of each.

Blammer

03-23-2009, 02:23 PM

Here is the "combo" version.

I modified the basic design to easily accomodate at GC version and a Plain Base version.

Here they are side by side in a pic.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/TwinsGCPB.jpg

Plain base version WW approx 116gr
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/311316DualPlainbasepic.jpg

GC version WW approx 112gr
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/311316DualGCPBpic.jpg

Blammer

03-23-2009, 02:24 PM

and the dimensions.

GC version

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/311316DualGCPBdraw.jpg

Plain Base version

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/311316DualPlainbasedraw.jpg

If there are any "wrong" numbers or ones I missed, feel free to speak up!

Blammer

03-23-2009, 04:46 PM

Min dia we are going for is .312 max will be .314

buffalorunner

03-23-2009, 05:17 PM

Fwiw my lyman 3118 mold drops ww+2% tin at .312 diam. They do not shoot at all in my 32-20. My saeco 322 drops the same mixture at .315. Sized to .314, they shoot great. I do not need another .312 mold. I would love to have another .314+ mold

buffalorunner

03-23-2009, 05:19 PM

Ps. Great work on the drawings!!!

Blammer

03-23-2009, 05:44 PM

thanks, I think our Honcho will have to decide on the target dia for the GB.

shdwlkr

03-23-2009, 06:13 PM

Now you Buffalorunner have me scratching my bald head as I was looking at the .312 so it would be useable in .32 caliber pistols as well as the 32-20. give me a few to chew on this as with our tolerances if I up it to .313 min the max would be .315 I will get back to all if a few. Dang I hate using my brain this much. Ha Ha

shdwlkr

03-23-2009, 07:02 PM

Ok folks here is the thinking and let me know what you think. I am going with .313 design and with the tolerances of the person I am thinking of doing the mold work that would give us a max of .315 diameter bullet as that is his tolerances +.002/-.000. I am thinking of this as a 32-20 bullet and if you want to size it down for say your 06 or 30wcf the lube groove is large enough that you can and still have a large enough lube groove.
There is no difference in the in the meplat, nose length or diameter whether it is a gc or pb bullet. The difference is in the base which we designed so it would be easier we hope for the mold maker to switch between pb and gc base.
Lets here from those of you who said you where interested. Have I been listening correctly or do I need to think some more about this bullet. I am getting really excited about getting a test mold to play with so let me know.
Now is your chance speak up or forever wish you had. Ha Ha

dromia

03-24-2009, 12:08 AM

For me .314" would be the ideal diameter especially as I get the impression this mould maker is likely to be on the button.

For my applications .314" is more versatile as its always easier to size down than cast up.

My alloy will mainly be WW and range scrap 11-12 BHN.

Other than the diameter I think the design looks good both PB and GC, many thanks to all concerned for the effort and intelligence applied to this.

Fugowii

03-24-2009, 07:11 AM

badgeredd

03-24-2009, 07:27 AM

Has a mold maker been settled on? What metal will the block be made from?

.313 +.002/-.000 seems to me to be a good average dimension to shoot for. Depending on when and how much it'll cost, I'd be interested in a GC design. I'd be able to PB a cavity or 2 if I wanted a PB boolit.

Edd

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 10:45 AM

Badgeredd
The mold maker should have the drawings sometime today and maybe within a week or two I can answer many more questions as I am in hopes of having a test mold in my fat sweaty hand. Right now I want to keep things sort of unknown as I am working with an unknown mold maker and if it goes sour then I am the one who has to find a new mold maker if it goes well you will all know what is going on and the race will be on once all of our testing has been met and we are happy the group buy will be on.
Fugowii
The size of the bullet is because we just don't know what we will get from this mold maker now if he hits dead on then great but if he has a problem and shooting for .313 and ends up giving us a .314 or .315 I am not upset but at least we factored in some wiggle room for him to work with. I can answer more questions when I have the test mold in my hand right now we are all guessing including the mold maker as this is a new source of work for him and he is very willing to work with us. So please bear with us as we go through the process. Thanks for your thoughts and keep them coming as I am open to ideas if I can make them work in my idea of what I want for a mold. If you have been following things since I hung my neck out to honcho this project I have changed my bullet diameter from .312 to .313 in hopes of better hitting what is needed for the 32-20 which is my goal in this project and it will work in some other calibers also.
Hope for the best on this as if it works we will have a new mold maker, hopefully better turn around time and a higher quality mold. Yes I am looking for a lot from this venture and one should as that is what makes it exciting to do one of these projects.
Cost will be stated when things are more final. As I said we are looking at a new mold maker and after he has made the test mold should have a better handle on his costs. I am hoping for a five cavity mold with both gc and pb bullets in the same mold. Might offer just plain or just gc but will have to verify with my mold maker after he has made the test mold if this works for him. Yes we are looking at a new type mold and if it works we all win.
Just to many things are unknown right now to give any firm answers but we are moving as fast as we can and still get a great mold that many will want.

WARD O

03-24-2009, 12:12 PM

First - Thanks to Shdwlkr and Blammer for their work on this project.

As I stated before - I want to use this in my three 32 Mags - two Rugers and a Marlin. As the Marlin is new to me I haven't had much opportunity to range test it in detail - YET.
What I do know is that the Rugers really prefer .313 over .312 (I haven't tried .314 yet.) So I do not want or need a .312 either. As dromia said - it is easier to size down!

I hope things work out well with this new mould maker - I like to cast outside and that works a bit better in the summer here in Minnesota.

Ward

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 12:26 PM

Ward O
You mean in the winter the lead freezes in the pot before you get a chance to cast or does it wait until it gets to the mold before it freezes?
I thought all you guys in the far north went outside in the dead of winter in your shorts and no shirt and cast for hours because it was the only time of year when the bugs didn't bother you.
Sorry just had to pick on you and the cold is one reason that I live in NM but still in the mountains so we do see some snow but it doesn't last long when the sun hits it. It has been cool here the last couple of days in the middle 50's but with the breeze that comes with it you don't want to stand out side to long as you will stiffen up some.
Spent to many years sitting on a tractor seat in zero or colder clearing the snow out of the driveway. The cold really bothers me now and I like seeing the sun most days even in the summer heat I like it better then being really cold which has happened to many times when I used to work on building bridges, I can remember more then once when my glove stuck to the metal beam and stayed there until it warmed up months later.

WARD O

03-24-2009, 01:10 PM

I work with a nice guy here - he's a recent transplant from Tucson. When it hits 50 up here with the sun out most of us are outside in shirt sleeves but he will show up in a sweater and a jacket. Must be an acquired habit.....

In reality - it's been more of an old fashioned winter here this year - plenty of days below 0 and no shortage of snow. In fact they're bracing for the flooding right now in the NW part of the state. I notice the cold more now then I used to in my younger days.

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 01:19 PM

Ward
I well remember days of 50 feeling warm but not anymore. Here in the west our blood gets thinned out by the hot summers so we really feel the cold. For me it is a humidity thing that got me to the desert. Most of the time it is really low and helps my arthritis big time but if it goes up into say 20 % or higher I am in great pain. You work your body hard when you are young and when you get old your body works you. Ha Ha.
Hope the flooding is minor I remember them and the work they caused to. Used to live in the State of NY and was so glad to get out of there.

Blammer

03-24-2009, 01:20 PM

Just finished sending the drawing out to the mould maker.

:)

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 03:16 PM

Ok guys the clock has started lets see how long we wait for the test mold and what we get. I am very excited about this project and just can't wait to get it moving and out to you guys who really want it.
Ok lets have a guessing game here
What condition will the test mold be in good, great or you have to be kidding???
Second what will the bullets drop out of the mold at right on size, .001 larger or .002 larger or did you read the drawings??
third Will it be a two cavity or 5 cavity and are the cavities all the same or different if so what flavor 3 gc and two pb or 2 gc and 3 pb or 4 pb and one gc get creative here?
Last when will it go up for your buying?
We need something here to keep the excitement under control so lets here from you.
Blammer, Swede and myself are not permitted to comment!!!!!!!!!!! except to say how things are going not to any of the questions or the mold maker period.
Remember this is a new mold maker and we don't want him to thing we are easy do we?? To please that is, no not that, shame on you for thinking that way.
I am in finals for my current class at college and will try to stop by often but might miss a day this week but will catch up as fast as I can. This is such a distraction to learning!!!
I am in a statics class and I hate statics plain and simple

Blammer

03-24-2009, 04:43 PM

statics? or statistics?

Dean D.

03-24-2009, 05:10 PM

We should consider a new thread with a poll featuring the various configurations. It seems like we have several requested so far and we will need to narrow the choices down or we will drive this new mold maker crazy. How bout:

"Shdwlkr's 311316 Poll"

ALL GC
ALL PB
3 GC, 2 PB
3 PB, 2 GC
4 GC, 1 PB
4 PB, 1 GC

At least this way we can get an easy count on how many want which kind. :drinks:

I do agree with Blammer though, if you get all GC and want PB later you can always drill the cavity out, not so with PB to start with.

felix

03-24-2009, 05:11 PM

Hate statics? Shame on you. If you can't handle that, you are in for a treat during dynamics class. Besides, both are needed to understand transients, like that describing gun action. ... felix

bearcove

03-24-2009, 05:19 PM

If you hate statics, you should consider a non engineering/ physics/ math major.

Blammer

03-24-2009, 05:22 PM

If I get 3 PB and 2 GC, can I have them every other one in the mould?

:)

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 07:01 PM

Blammer it is statistics I told you I hate it.
Statics and thermo and fluid mechanics where fun and I was a civil engineer for over 35 years so I do know what I like and don't like. For twenty of those years I was the guy that designed and built bridges and cleaned up the mistakes that the Professional's missed like rebars, connectors, number of beams needed, pedestal heights, and the expansion joints and there placement yea I have had my fun I also was on one of the original teams that did bridge safety inspections now you want a thrill go under some of the bridges in this country and do some calculations on what the bridge can really carry. Now remember you are under it and the traffic is rumbling overhead and all that stuff is really rusted steel coming off the beams which over the decades adds up to loss of structural mass. I have pushed my hand through the web on more then one bridge and wondered just what was holding it up besides rust and yes we did close a few bridges while inspecting them. I remember one that the structural deck just dropped out and left a 3 by 5 foot hole and for the last 15 I did programming, system design and development, network administration, data base design and maintenance and being a supervisor just to fill in my free time.
I am retired right now trying to get my masters with a high enough grade to get into Physicians Assistant program so I can do that for 10-20 years and then I will retire again for good. that should make me almost 80 so I think I can retire then if the government doesn't take everything and they just leave me a little

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 07:06 PM

[QUOTE=Blammer;528812]If I get 3 PB and 2 GC, can I have them every other one in the mould?

Blammer only if we can cut your mold upside down so you have a nose pour mold instead of a base pour like the rest of us. Ha Ha and no you don't get any openings you have pour the lead in each half and close it real fast to get a complete bullet. ha ha

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 07:09 PM

DeanD
I like the idea how do we get it up and going. But you really should get out more as you have way to many choices here. Ha Ha

Dean D.

03-24-2009, 07:43 PM

Shdwlkr - to create a poll we just need to start a new thread. I threw up those choices because they all seemed to have been offered in this thread. Let me know what choices you would like and I could create the poll.

shdwlkr

03-24-2009, 08:01 PM

DeanD
the first four seem like good choices

2Tite

03-25-2009, 06:21 PM

I'm very interested in this buy. I'd like to see a mixed mold of PB and GC. As long as it's 2 & 3 mix I don't care either way, not important to me. Mixed is important, just "drilling" one out later is an oversimplification of what it takes to properly do this. It needs to be done in a lathe with some skill and patience. Even then making 2 cavities the same can be difficult. So, I'd suggest we let the maker do this at the time of production. I'd like to know what material the mold will be made of and if aluminum I'd like to know what series. It matters a lot. I'd like to see brass or iron but if aluminum, it can be too soft. That would be a deal breaker for me. I hope we can have that information as we get started..............my 2 cents and worth exactly what you paid for it........

shdwlkr

03-25-2009, 06:35 PM

2Tite
When I have the test mold in my sweaty fat hand I can answer what the metal is. I don't think it will be aluminum but like I said when in my fat sweaty hand I should have a better idea.
keep watching this post. I should have one in my hand in late April. Drawings are in the hands of the mold maker now we wait and see what we get.
If you think the time frame is long remember this is a new source of income for this guy and gearing up always takes a little time. So far the time frame given me doesn't seem bad.

C1PNR

03-25-2009, 07:10 PM

OK, I gotta ask - what happened to the .314 diameter as shown in post 65?

A mould sized .312 or .313 is fine if you're planning to shoot it in your 30-30, .30 Carbine, etc., but if it's for a 32-20 it needs to be .314. If it comes in at .316 it's only .002 sizing down, but I really don't want to "Beagle" a new mould to make it fit my 32-20.

JMHO, and worth every bit that you paid for it.;)

shdwlkr

03-25-2009, 07:16 PM

Fugowii

03-26-2009, 06:42 AM

shdwlkr

03-26-2009, 07:43 AM

2Tite and others
the mold metal will be 6061 T6 Alum. according to our mold maker. As I keep telling you as I know it will be posted here.

Bret4207

04-04-2009, 06:25 AM

C1PNR
I reduced it .001 because this is a new mold maker and we don't know what he can do. I also can't find anywhere where the 32-20 is bigger then .3125 in diameter so I went .0005 larger for my min and .315 for my max bullet diameter.
Sorry if that upsets you but that is why the bullet diameter has changed. My .02 cents on the subject.

I have 4 or 5 32WCF arms. .314 works well in all of them. Unsized boolits with pressed on GC's at .314+ work just a tad better. I'd be far more excited if the moulds throw .315 in WW alloy than .313.

As has been said, sizing down is easy, bumping them up is a pain.

C1PNR

04-04-2009, 12:55 PM

C1PNR
I reduced it .001 because this is a new mold maker and we don't know what he can do. I also can't find anywhere where the 32-20 is bigger then .3125 in diameter so I went .0005 larger for my min and .315 for my max bullet diameter.
Sorry if that upsets you but that is why the bullet diameter has changed. My .02 cents on the subject.
Please, don't misunderstand me, I'm not upset. It's just that at .314 it would be very useful to me as I only have one old Ideal in this design and having a new 6 C would please me very much.

Otherwise I'm fine with light .30 moulds for the Carbine, etc., so I'll use this one exclusively in the 32 WCF in both the '92 and the Army Special.

shdwlkr

04-04-2009, 02:08 PM

C1PNR
Until I can see what this mold maker can do I am not going to request a diameter that can"t be produced that was where I was coming from and everything I can find on lead bullets in the 32-20 all have been sized to .313 so that is why I went with that diameter. We are still in the test and see stage on this and if this guy can hit right on the money just might change things again. But until I know what I can get I am playing it safe and gave him tolerances that would give us a good mold. I don't even know the kinds of molds we can get yet or variations. I do know that I can get 2 cavity and 5 cavity but how many of what type he needs I don't know yet nor do I think he does as setup, work and end product are still unknowns to us all. I want this to work for all of us the mold maker, me as honcho, and those who buy the mold I don't like being cheated or misrepresented either.
I am not upset with others view and I might turn around and do another with the larger diameter for those of you who need it. Just to many things in the air right now and I like to know what I am dealing with before I spend other people's and my money. I know it is strange but I like to be happy with what I got and not just acceptable might end up that way and be like lee molds but if we can cut the wait time down then it is still worth it maybe.
I am very pleased with the interest in this mold though and it being my first I want a really good one so you guys know that I am in this to make a good mold and have happy buyers otherwise there is no fun in this for me the honcho.

shdwlkr

04-04-2009, 02:14 PM

Bret4207

04-05-2009, 05:09 PM

Got an Army Special too. Great gun, wish it had adjustable sights or at least some larger sights.

shdwlkr

04-05-2009, 07:00 PM

I have traveled in your part of the world almost bought a place up there and then the job fell through and I ended up working in Albany for 15 years. Then I got the heck out of that state as it just got to stupid for me.

C1PNR

04-06-2009, 10:48 AM

Yes, larger sights would certainly help! My other problem is a holster for field carry.

Since I like to use my guns in the field, I looked for a holster that would come even close to fitting without going for a custom. I ended up with one designed for a 6" K frame. It works well enough, but I really need something with a better fit.:wink:

shdwlkr

04-20-2009, 07:09 AM

Just an update for those who might be interested is that I may have the test mold in my sweaty fat hands in 10 days. I can't wait to see what I get and to play with the bullets

shdwlkr

04-21-2009, 05:18 PM

Another update this one is about some machining issues that have had to be dealt with so this mold has stepped backwards some but there is still hope.

C1PNR

04-27-2009, 03:17 PM

C1PNR
is the 92 and the army special originals. If so you are very lucky. I have an original 92 but no pistol yet most likely will be a new clone one as I might be able to find funds for that.
I am also waiting very impatiently to get my miroku model 92 in 357mag. Yea I like the model 92 and would one day like to build a model 92 in 256 win mag too.
I am sick I know but I like levers a lot and have been going that way for a few years
Yes, they are. I bought the 92 from a quasi pawn shop back before the Cowboy Action stuff really took off. I do have a little trouble maintaining control of it though. Every time I take my Son out shooting it, I have to pull it out of the trunk of his car just before he heads home.;)

The Army Special I bought in the late 80's out of S. CA. I was on a business trip and they had this one and a New Police, both in 32 WCF. The Army was just in much better condition so I opted for it. I know the New Police would be a lot easier to carry for the "coup 'd grace" when big game hunting, but condition sold me.

Still watching to see what we come up with here. Please keep us informed.

shdwlkr

04-27-2009, 08:19 PM

C1PNR
My last post tells you where we are at the moment on this project and as I learn more I will post it here. If it went smooth with no bumps it wouldn't be so much fun now would it.

shdwlkr

05-18-2009, 12:21 PM

just so you don't think that I have gone and dropped off the edge of the earth. We ran into some issues with this mold and the maker and had to step back and regroup and now hope things are moving forward and should have something to show you in the near future depending on events beyond my control.
Mold choices seem to be shaping up like this 5-6 cavity, pb, gc or a combination of both. When I get the mold I will post pics and shooting results for you.
thanks for your interest in this bullet and I hope to have the buy going by the first of June 2009 at least that is my target date right now.

Bret4207

05-29-2009, 05:19 AM

Shameless bump.

shdwlkr

05-29-2009, 06:26 AM

Bret
I am waiting on tooling and the test mold to show up then this can get active again

WARD O

06-09-2009, 03:45 PM

Any news on this one?

Ward

shdwlkr

06-09-2009, 04:14 PM

ward
We had to find a new person to cut the molds and with luck I should have one that I can show you this week or next.
I am sitting on pins and needles waiting for it to show up and get you guys some pictures and ideas of what it does in my 32-20 might even size a few down for the 30-30 for shins and grins

johnly

06-10-2009, 03:52 PM

I was just looking at having a custom mold cut in this basic design. So It looks like you might just have another mold to add to the production run.

John

shdwlkr

06-10-2009, 05:39 PM

Just an update with any kind of luck my mould should be in the mail to me tomorrow. I can hardly wait to get it in my sweaty hands and take some pictures and go shoot it.

SwedeNelson

06-15-2009, 07:57 PM

Shdwlkr

Sorry to take so long.
But it will go out in tomorrow's mail

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/Picture127.jpg

Swede Nelson

WARD O

06-16-2009, 10:02 AM

Looking good!

Ward

shdwlkr

06-16-2009, 12:33 PM

Ok guys stay tuned things could get really interesting very soon if it meets my requirements it will be a go very soon.
We can run this more then once also if the orders are there. So look at swede's options and prices and start thinking what you can't live with out. For me Swede took care of that for me and I am really pleased with that picture.
Swede I like the logo

218bee

06-16-2009, 03:11 PM

Very curious about this one....since I started thread. What handles will be needed?

shdwlkr

06-16-2009, 03:17 PM

Lee 6 mold handles as of now when I get it I will see if any of the others i have work and let everyone know if there is any change

uncowboy

06-17-2009, 05:48 AM

Blammer,
My personal preferrence is the top one with the crimp groove. Should make a great "bunny" round for the 30-30.

I shoot this bullet GC in the 30/30 with 10.5 gr 2400 and it shoots 1 hole at 50 YDS. just under 3" at 100 with Savage buckhorn Iron sights. I am sure if I scoped it it would shoot about 1.5" @ 100 yds. J.Michael

shdwlkr

06-19-2009, 10:07 AM

As I said all along as I know you will know
first impressions
Well everything you see in the picture came with my mold. Yes I have it in my sweaty hands. It is so much better made than Lee molds. All sides are square, all cavities seem to be smooth more later when I cast some lead, It seems well made and I will try and get some time this week to cast and shoot some lead so I can show results. I will try and get a few pictures up by this weekend depends on my honey do list which is getting longer each day.