.30HBC: Today's Results

[Maven]

All, After achieving ~m.o.a results from the .30HBC, albeit at <1,700fps, I was advised to change several things if I wanted that same level of accuracy at higher speed (see the thread, "MOA Shooter - .30HBC"). I followed that advice. To wit, I heat-treated those pointy devils, sized them to .311" instead of .310" and used almost a full case of the slowest powder I had on hand, IMR 7383, instead of 16-17gr. WC 820 to, no avail. The first 2 shots from a cold bbl. landed 6" apart @ 50 yds. The next 4, however, clustered into <2" at the same distance. Encouraged, I tried to get the remaining 14 (20 in all) to group, but alas, they did not. I tried again with another 20, but the outcome was the same. At that point I gave up. To paraphrase the Borg, persistence was futile! If I'm going to waste lead, why not at least do so over my chrono. screens, even though I wasn't certain where the CB's would go. Btw, I also had 4 rounds of #311291 @ .311" and 4 of a CBE heavy Loverin @ .311" over 30gr. of whatever powder was in the LC '67 brass I asked about last week: They grouped into <1". I'll list the particulars below, but I've got to tell you, life is too short to continue to mess with (a nicer phrase than I wanted to use) this particular bullet design. As soon as I change over to my new 'puter, the .30HBC will be EBay bound!

Loading data for .30HBC: Brass was LC Match + 10 Win. .30-06. Rifle was a Win. Mod. 70 "Westerner" (blind mag.), glass bedded. CB's were heat-treated, sized to .311" and seated to 3.32" OAL (into the rifling). I used 49gr. IMR 7383, which should be dropped to 48gr. Chrono. data is:

LC Match '06 brass: Mean = 2,350fps SD = 15 ES = 44

Win. '06 brass: Mean = 2,316fps SD = 30 ES = 102

The above differences are statistically significant (T-Test, where n = two sets of 10).

Lastly, the average velocity for the LC brass is close to what I extrapolated from Lyman's loading data for a 190gr. jacketed SP bullet. Lyman suggested 2,380fps.

[w30wcf]

Maven,

THank you for the update on your latest trial with the 210HBC bullet.

I had very good success with heat treated 210HBC's at 2,000 f.p.s. (36/H414) in my 788 .30-30 (1in10"). It could be that at your higher 2,300 f.p.s. the bearing length of the bullet is not enough to keep it from yawing in your barrel.

Perhaps if you tried one of your accuracy loads in your .30-06 at around 2,000 f.p.s., the results may be much more satisfying(?).

How does your almost capacity load of 7383 work with other cast bullet designs that you may have tried that load with?

Thank you,
w30wcf

[Maven]

Jack, Sorry to take so long to reply to your post (new computer -> lots of problems). To answer your questions, first I normally don't push any of my CB loads beyond 1,750fps. The .30HBC load was an exception. The only good news there was that it didn't lead at all (used Lyman Super Moly lube). Actually, it will group into 1" @ 100yds. at low speeds using 15-17gr. WC 820. Also, I once got it to group ~as well with 47gr. IMR 5010 + 1cc Grex & Win. mag. primers, but velocity couldn't have been more than 1,700fps.

As for 7383, with the exception the above, I've only tried it once before in a CB load: 35gr. in the 7.5 x 55mm Swiss (K-31). It was accurate enough & clean-burning, but ES was a bit high, as was velocity (no leading). The problem is that I didn't have a large enough sample to draw any conclusions from. I was also thinking about testing it in the 8mm Mau., but haven't yet done so. If you're thinking about using it for a CB powder, make sure you use a heavy CB and fill the case at least half-full with it since it doesn't tolerate reduced loads well.
On the other hand, it works very nicely in bottle-necked cartridges with jacketed bullets IF you don't overload it. (An overload can be as little as 1gr.)

[Buckshot]

................Every report I've heard about this slug makes want to fire up the pot and cast up a whole boggle of them for testing 8)

................Buckshot

[Maven]

Rick, I won't be casting any more of those imps (persistence is futile!) as the mold has a new owner (pending funds). However, if you want to share the pain, I've got a couple of suggestions. First, don't heat-treat or harden them unless you're going for high vel. Second, 13gr. Red Dot, 16gr. 2400, or 15-17gr. WC 820 work very well in the .30-06 (m.o.a., but you may be able to jog to the target before the bullet arrives!). Third, if you want a 90%+ density load in the '06, try 47gr. IMR 5010 + 1cc poly shot buffer and a mag. primer. Btw, the .30HBC is fairly accurate in the K-31 as well, possibly because of the short leade and slightly faster twist (~1:10.7).

[w30wcf]

Maven,

Thank you for the additional information. Sorry to hear that you've "thrown in the towel" so to speak.

A now deceased friend of mine used 28grs. of RL7 as an accuracy load with 200 gr. bullets in his .30-06 for velocities in the 1900 f.p.s. range. If you havenany RL7, it might be worth it to try that recipe with the .30HBC.

Sincerely,
w30wcf

[Maven]

Jack, I have another heavy .30cal. CB that is very accurate (#311644) and tolerates both high and low velocity loads very well. Also the old Cramer/Saeco RG-4, if Beagled, is capable of fine accuracy as well. As for the .30HBC, the fellow who purchased it has a match rifle (Rem. 40) and should be able to test it thoroughly.

[StarMetal]

Maven,

I didn't buy that mould as I personally didn't think it was going to shoot accurately at high velocities. Remains to be seen yet, but I was thinking. Wonder if Buckshot could open the portion of it that is full caliber and extend it forward some, making it less of a spitzer, and giving it more nose support from possibly slumping upon ignition? Just a thought to at least salvage it.

Joe

[Bass Ackward]

Personally, if anyone will put in the effort to ring this thing out, it's Rick. All you need to tell him is that it can't be done. Then give him some time.

Buckshot,

Can't be done Rick. Spitzers just won't work at high velocities so please don't bother trying.



That ought to get some load data in a month or so for that bullet.

[Maven]

All, I don't know that I'd conclude that cast spitzers don't shoot well for two reasons. First, the .30HBC DOES shoot into 1 m.o.a., possibly less if you don't push it very fast. It's a latter day version of the Squibb design, e.g., Lyman #311413. Second, Veral Smith's modified spitzer designs shoot very well for me in my 8 x 57mm and 6.5 x 55mm Mau's. However, the fast twist in the latter precludes testing at >1,700fps.

[StarMetal]

Mavin,

But that squib bullet was intended for, well, a squib load, not a fast one. Wasn't Aladin's bullet designed with the intentions of a higher speed and having a higher BC in order to shoot long distances better? If so squib loading it defeats it's intented purpose. Isn't it a tad heavy for a squib load also?

Joe

[Ben]

I've shot the 210 HCB a good bit. My double set triggered Mauser 30 / 06 will shoot in one hole at 50 yards with the bullet.

I went to the range yesterday ( Jan. 12th ).... I shot this at 50 yards with the bullet, I understand that many have shot this bullet even more accurately than this group. However, this isn't bad for cast bullets............

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Range%20Trip%204-%2025-05/9.jpg

[trk]

Mavin,

.... Wasn't Aladin's bullet designed with the intentions of a higher speed and having a higher BC in order to shoot long distances better? If so squib loading it defeats it's intented purpose. ....

That is exactly what we were hoping for, high BC, heavy to retain velocity.

[trk]

Ben - what is your method of sizing? Lube?

[Ben]

trk:

I snap on a g/c & roll my .3105" dia as cast HCB 210 gr. bullets on a pad w/ a thin film of black moly grease and lightly lube them and then pass them through a .309 Lee " Push Thru " sizer, nose 1st.

I then take all my bullets that I've sized to .309 dia. and run them through my Lyman Lubri-sizer with a .311 die installed. My logic is I don't want the bullet touched by the sizind die anymore after the bullets have been sized in the Lee push thru .309 sizer, I simply want the hydraulic pressure of the Lubrisizer used to force my lube into the lube grooves of the bullets.

What lube? ? .........I use a mixture of Beeswax, black moly grease ( Costal Brand ), graphite, Dextron II Trans. fluid, & ivory soap, . I've been using this mixture for 15 + years in rifle and pistol. Seems to work just fine for me.

I will say however that my ceiling velocity is around 1,800 fps. I've never tried to shoot cast bullets in 30 cal. rifles at some of the blistering speeds that I read about. My lube would most likely break down at speeds in excess of 2,000 - 2,200. At least that is my guess.

No problems with leading at the speeds I shoot. Can't argue with the accuracy that I'm getting in a variety of calibers with the lube.

Thanks,

Ben