Newbie: Cleaning WW's and making ingots

[BHFG]

I just found this forum last night and have been reading many, many posts. I have a couple of questions i am hoping someone can help with.

First, I will be picking up my inital couple of buckets of WW's today from a local tire shop. I understand failrly well how to pick out the steel and zinc ones. But I was wondering if it would be a god idea to pressure wash off the remaining ones. Looks like getting as much road grime and dirt off the weights before melting them down would help to keep the alloy cleaner. Any thoughts?

Second, I noticed several posts mentioned not using the melting furnace you'll use to make bullets to meltdown the weights into ingots because it will get crud in it. I have a large dutch oven and a turkey fryer burner I could use, but this brings up a couple of other questions:
- When you are dipping the lead out to make ingots, how do you get the last small amount of lead our of the pot that the ladle can't get? Or, do you just leave it in there and melt it again next time?

- Since Lee furnaces are pretty cheap, would it work to get one for making ingots and nother for making bullets? It seems it woudl be easier, and maybe safer, to use an electric furnace with a bottom pour spout to make ingots than to have an open flame, a big pot of moulten lead and having to a a dipper back and forth from the por to the moulds. But am i missing something?


Finally (at least for now), I assume you either cast bullets until your lead is gone, or else cast what's left back into ingots. But do you have to somehow clean out the melting furnace used to make bullets at the end of the day when the lead is gone? If so, how is this done?

Tnx!

[opentop]

First, I will be picking up my inital couple of buckets of WW's today from a local tire shop. I understand failrly well how to pick out the steel and zinc ones. But I was wondering if it would be a god idea to pressure wash off the remaining ones. Looks like getting as much road grime and dirt off the weights before melting them down would help to keep the alloy cleaner. Any thoughts?

Sort out the steel and zinc WW's. Also sort out the stick on WW's (they are softer and can be used to make softer alloys). Then smelt as is, all the crud will flot to the top. I don't think your going to get them that much cleaner with pressure washing them.


Second, I noticed several posts mentioned not using the melting furnace you'll use to make bullets to meltdown the weights into ingots because it will get crud in it. I have a large dutch oven and a turkey fryer burner I could use, but this brings up a couple of other questions:
- When you are dipping the lead out to make ingots, how do you get the last small amount of lead our of the pot that the ladle can't get? Or, do you just leave it in there and melt it again next time?

A turky fryer and dutch oven is your best bet as you can do larger batches with it. You may need to beef up the legs on the fryer a bit to make sure it will hold the weight of a pot full of lead. One the dutch oven is almost empty, you can use pliers or something to pick it up and tip it to drain the last bit of melt that the laddle wont get.


Since Lee furnaces are pretty cheap, would it work to get one for making ingots and nother for making bullets? It seems it woudl be easier, and maybe safer, to use an electric furnace with a bottom pour spout to make ingots than to have an open flame, a big pot of moulten lead and having to a a dipper back and forth from the por to the moulds. But am i missing something?

If you smelt your WW's in a bottom pour, your going to clog up the spout. If you insist on using a lee pot to smelt in, get the none bottom pour, but it will be slow smelting.


Finally (at least for now), I assume you either cast bullets until your lead is gone, or else cast what's left back into ingots. But do you have to somehow clean out the melting furnace used to make bullets at the end of the day when the lead is gone? If so, how is this done?

Most around here refill thier pot at the end of the casting session and leave it in thier pot.

[Matt_G]

Welcome to the forum! :drinks:

But I was wondering if it would be a god idea to pressure wash off the remaining ones. Looks like getting as much road grime and dirt off the weights before melting them down would help to keep the alloy cleaner. Any thoughts?
You could do that, BUT your not going to get it all. Secondly, even if you did get them 100% clean, it is still going to stink and smoke due to the many painted weights you'll have.
Most important is getting them dry. Water has a tendency to get inside the lead where the clip goes in. If they are not dried out completely before hitting the molten lead YOU WILL get a visit from the tinsel fairy.


Second, I noticed several posts mentioned not using the melting furnace you'll use to make bullets to meltdown the weights into ingots because it will get crud in it.
That's correct.

When you are dipping the lead out to make ingots, how do you get the last small amount of lead our of the pot that the ladle can't get? Or, do you just leave it in there and melt it again next time?
Just leave it in there.


Since Lee furnaces are pretty cheap, would it work to get one for making ingots and nother for making bullets? It seems it woudl be easier, and maybe safer, to use an electric furnace with a bottom pour spout to make ingots than to have an open flame, a big pot of moulten lead and having to a a dipper back and forth from the por to the moulds. But am i missing something?
The problem with this is production. Even just 2 buckets of WW's is going to take a long time to render into ingots, even using a 20 lb. Lee.

Anytime you render WW"s to ingots it's a good idea to load the pot (be it a dutch oven or a Lee) with WW"s, then turn on the heat. The ensures that any water that might be trapped in those weights is evaporated before the lead melts.


Finally (at least for now), I assume you either cast bullets until your lead is gone, or else cast what's left back into ingots. But do you have to somehow clean out the melting furnace used to make bullets at the end of the day when the lead is gone? If so, how is this done?
If your alloy is clean and well fluxed you shouldn't need to clean the pot often.
I usually cast till the pot only has about an inch and a half left in it, then I load it up with ingots again. I'm usually wanting a break by that time anyways. When I'm finished I just leave that alloy in there. After it's cooled off, I tape a note to the pot telling myself what alloy is in there. Now If I know I probably won't want to use that alloy the next time I cast, I'll go ahead and empty it out.

[Beaverhunter2]

I'm sure some of the more experienced guys will chime in and give better advice, but I'll do what I can.

I've never washed my WWs. It probably wouldn't hurt- but then you'll have conerns about having water in them when you go to add additional weights to the smelting melt. That would be a bad thing! Search the Forum on "tinsel fairy" for enough horror stories to make you very careful about putting wet material in the melt. The fluxing and dross removal process will get the crud out and no matter what you do, there will be plenty to remove.

I wouldn't suggest a bottom pour for smelting. I use a stainless steel pot I got at the Salvation Army for just a few bucks to do mine. I like Dutch ovens for stew and biscuits! Besides- Dutch Ovens aren't cheap and reducing costs is one of the reasons many of us got into casting. Although now I enjoy it so much, I'd probably still do it, even if cast cost the same as J-bullets. Remember, if you use a pot for lead- it can never be used for food.

I think the Lee pots are kind of small on top for smelting and the mechanism is in the way. After trying to get the clips and junk out, I think you'll agree that a more open set-up is easier. Also, when you're smelting 100lb+ of WWs per bucket, you'll be glad you can do a bunch at a time. The Lee pots only hold 10 or 20 lb of alloy. You'd be there all day trying to do a bucket. My set-up is kind of small (IMHO), but I can easily do 60lb at a time.

As far as emptying the furnace, unless I'm changing alloys or getting dirty boolits, I leave the metal in it until next time. I'm sure the other guys will have more insight into this. BTW, I have a Lee 10lb but still do a lot of ladle casting. My big boolits (325gr+) tend to come out dirty from the bottom pour for some reason. There was a thread on this. I messed around with it for a while and then just went to ladle casting the big ones. I enjoy the casting so it's no problem for me.

There you go, BFHG. That's my $.02. Welcome to the Forum. One last word of advice- unless you're ready for a new obsession, get rid of your casting stuff right now! I started last spring and now have 12 different moulds and I'm in the process of getting another to have Buckshot HP for me. Lead is very addictive! ;)

John

[Matt_G]

One thing I forgot to mention:

Don't melt the stick-on WW"s with the clip-ons. Separate them out, and melt them all together. They are close to pure lead. You'll have more consistent alloy this way.
As you get into this more, you can use that soft stuff to cut down your WW alloy for certain applications.
Heck, if you buy a front stuffer in the future, it will come in handy then as well. :lol:

BTW, watch out for zinc stick-ons. They are out there. I found two of 'em just yesterday.

[Gunslinger]

Maybe this will bring another perspective on cleaning WWs before smelting. Now, this was range lead, but basically the procedure is the same.

- Spent 3 hours diggin it out of the beam

- Anther 3 hosing it down in the backyard

- And another 2 hours distributing it on towels on the bathroom floor, were they stayed 24 hours so I was absolutely certain all the moist was gone.

I now realize this was absolutely pointless. The only difference it makes, is that the amount of crud on top of the smelt is going to be smaller. Which really doesn't make ANY difference at all.

Welcome aboard, you're gonna like it here!

[Willbird]

I think burning all the crud off is part of the experience, the rubber valve stems probably make a decent flux as they burn off :-). I use cheap motor oil to flux. left over partial quarts of this and that.

Bill

[FN in MT]

BHFG,

I've only had ONE visit from the Tinsel Fairy and that was many years ago when I first started casting. I was maybe 17 yoa. It was due to me trying to be TOO clean with my wheel weights. I had a few 5 gal buckets of WW's with everything from cigarette butts, to old soda pop to snoose in them. So I layed them on the concrete pad by our barn and hosed them off. Let them sit outside for a few days, then loaded them back into clean, dry buckets.

I started melting them down one afternoon and found out It doesn't take much moisture hidden between a weight and it's clip to send tinsel flying all over your Dads dairy barn as well as a few of the closeby cows. Was he EVER surprised when he got home that day!

I had forgotten my safety glasses and literally put them ON moments before my little explosion!! I recall several large specks of lead on them. I was very Lucky.

Be very careful with water. I use two different pots. Load them up, let one heat up...thereby burning off any moisture, until it melts. Make ingots, then add the second pot and do it all over again. Then again...I'm overly sensitive when it coems too the Tinsel Fairy.

FN in MT

[MT Gianni]

650 F is a great cleaner. Skiming the dirt/crud and assorted non burning junk off takes far less time than washing and is a lot safer.

[targetshootr]

My two cents: don't try to pick up more than 1/2 a bucket of ww at a time. You could herniate a disk. Don't ask how I know.

:castmine:

[jforwel]

BHFG welcome. I just smelted my first batch of WWs last week. I was almost going to rinse mine off and decided not to. There would still be tons of dirt plus the water hazard. I also used a cast iron pot on a turkey fryer. It worked great. I was in a garage with the door open but it's still a good idea to have a fan blowing the stinky smoke outwards as it comes up from the pot.

I just left about an inch of lead in the pot when I was done and will remelt it the next time. If I do some different metal then I can tap out that pan sized ingot and mark it.

As for zinc WWs I kept my temp below 700 and the zinc WWs (not many) floated up with the clips to be skimmed off.

[bbs70]

The thing I do when I get ww, is pour them out and sort out the zinc and steel and any rubber junk I might see.
I hate the smell of rubber burning.
Dirt and stuff will burn off in the smelting process and what doesn't will float to the top when fluxed.

I do it the easiest way I can without blowing myself up.

[briang]

Hi guys, did my first smelt this weekend. I just dumped the bucket into the dutch oven and lit the turkey fryer burner. After about five minutes I got inpatient and used a brush burner on the top to speed the melt and found that it really helped to knock the smell down. I fluxed with used motor oil and skimmed a lot of crap off. As I cast I had to keep skimming, the melt was getting a "skin" on it that started the same color as lead but would turn dark if I let it sit. Not to hijack but is that normal?

[Willbird]

That blackish looking stuff is probably lead oxide and oxides of any others metals in the alloy. Possibly the black is a thin layer of carbon from fluxing. There is no need to put any more heat into the process than what is needed to melt your WW. More is not better because if you keep it cool there is less chance of alloying zinc in if you find a zinc weight. I have never found a zinc weight yet, found a few steel ones that scared me until I stuck them on a magnet.

[jsizemore]

If you have a full bucket of WW it will weigh about 140-150 lbs. I fill my 10qt dutch oven with uncleaned WW till it's heaping but not hanging outside the pot. As it slowly starts to drop in the pot, I start feeding WW slowly on top. This is about 10 minutes in. I keep adding WW slowly until the lead is visible about 2" below the rim of the pot. I start poking the last heaped WW down into the melt with my stirring spoon. I am now about 30 minutes into the smelting. I could have turned the heat up higher and taken alot less time but the payoff is that now the steel clips are floating on top with the zinc and steel WW. I have slowly gotten about 50lbs of raw WW in the pot and when I scrape the clips and junk floating on top, it will almost fill up a 3lb metal coffee can. After fluxing and stirring with a heart pine stick, I am now at about 40 min. in and ready to start pouring ingots. The tips of the flames from the burner have gotten up the sides about 3/4 when I'm melting the WW and when I start stirring and pouring ingots, the flame is reduced to just lapping up the sides. It takes me about 10-15 min to por all the ingots and start the process again. Imagine trying to do this in a little pot.

[Faret]

That is the same way I did it today!