New at casting and trying to choose .38 mold

[ghh3rd]

I thought I would order a mold to tinker with until I decide on and order a casting setup. I already have an old melting pot, assorted ladles, and a camp stove, and thought I would see if I could cast a few bullets, although I know my chance of success is very low without the correct equipment. I discovered that my melting pot is pretty cruddy and rusty inside - will I still be able to use it?

I have a lot of lead but think it's all pure. Will I be able to use pure lead it in my .38 or will it lead the barrel? I actually have a couple of 1 lb rolls of tin foil. Could I cut some up and add it to the lead? If the lead already had some, would adding more hurt anything? I could probably scrounge up some wheel weights if I had to.

This is the mold that I think I've settled on for my S&W .38 Special Snub. I am taking some advice from this forum and getting one for tumble lubing. Also, I was trying to avoid resizing so I load them as cast. Should this one work for me?


Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL358-148WC 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 38 Colt New Police (358 Diameter) 148 Grain Tumble Lube Wadcutter

I was originally looking for a much lighter bullet, such as 105 gr, in order to conserve lead and powder, and to have less recoil while practicing, but I was told that I would actually need to use more powder to get it up to correct speed from a snub nose revolver, although I don't understand why (yet). I was also told that the heaver bullet should shoot closer to POA than a lighter bullet.

I've been trying to figure out what a top punch does, and how it's used. I think it's used in a resizer. If I don't need to resize this bullet, I don't need a top punch - correct?

I think I remember reading somewhere in this forum that there's a way to make the Lee Alox go further, but not sure if I actually did read that. (I've been reading so much stuff lately, it sort of makes my head spin.)

I would appreciate any tips on anything I should get to make it easier to get the bullets out of the mold (low cost solution). I would also appreciate any other ideas on what I should get if this idea doesn't seem like a good one. I just am in the mood to try to cast some bullets, even under less than optimum conditions.

Hopefully, I'll be able to cast at least a handful of bullets from my crude equipment while deciding on a proper setup and the right payday to order it. Sorry for so many questions.

Thanks,


Randy

[Recluse]

Randy, I'll answer what I can and what has worked all right for me.


I thought I would order a mold to tinker with until I decide on and order a casting setup. I already have an old melting pot, assorted ladles, and a camp stove, and thought I would see if I could cast a few bullets, although I know my chance of success is very low without the correct equipment. I discovered that my melting pot is pretty cruddy and rusty inside - will I still be able to use it?

That I couldn't tell you without looking at it. Advice? Get you some steel wool and some naptha or mineral spirits and see how well you can clean it up. Blow it dry with compressed air, give it a day or so to completely dry and then fire it up and see what happens. Many folks have used camp stoves and lead pots and produced very fine boolits.


This is the mold that I think I've settled on for my S&W .38 Special Snub. I am taking some advice from this forum and getting one for tumble lubing. Also, I was trying to avoid resizing so I load them as cast. Should this one work for me?


Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL358-148WC 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 38 Colt New Police (358 Diameter) 148 Grain Tumble Lube Wadcutter

I have that mould in a two-banger and it produces a very good, very accurate boolit for my Smith & Wessons. Don't know that I'd necessarily start my casting journey with a six-banger mould, though. They do have some idiosyncracies to them and you do need to do some prep work to maximize their utlility and life expectancy.



I was originally looking for a much lighter bullet, such as 105 gr, in order to conserve lead and powder, and to have less recoil while practicing, but I was told that I would actually need to use more powder to get it up to correct speed from a snub nose revolver, although I don't understand why (yet). I was also told that the heaver bullet should shoot closer to POA than a lighter bullet.

Well, that one has me scratching my head as well. I have the 105SWC mould and it is one of my absolute favorite boolits. I make a wife-load in .38 for the missus' Taurus 85 snub as well as her little S&W AW, and my 2 1/2" S&W Mod 19. But I only put 2.8 grains of Bullseye behind that 105 grain boolit. Shoots very accurate and very consistent. Don't know why you would need more powder. . .

Besides, powder is about the cheapest part of reloading anymore--especially for handgun rounds.


I think I remember reading somewhere in this forum that there's a way to make the Lee Alox go further, but not sure if I actually did read that. (I've been reading so much stuff lately, it sort of makes my head spin.)


Lot of folks thin it with mineral spirits, and tumble twice--once before sizing and once after sizing. Even if you choose not to size, which I don't necessarily agree with, I'd still tumble the boolits twice. Other folks mix some Johnsons Paste Wax in with the LLA. Others dip-lube with the LLA. I use a lot of LLA, but I mix in some JPW. I get no leading, superbe accuracy, outstanding consistency and very little smoke. YMMV.

[mooman76]

I'll take a shot at answering some of your questions but first a big welcome. It's hard to go wrong with the 38 because there are so many bullets and so many that shoot good.
You can shoot soft lead at low velocities without leading. If the foil you have is in fact tin foil it will help allot and it doesn't take much. A little rust wont hurt a bit. If it is loose or gets knocked loose it will float on top of the melt and you just skim it off.
I had a Tauras 357 snubby and it didn't shoot great, not bad but not great and the one bullet that shot best was a full WC so that may be an excellent choice for a start. The 6x mould is a little harder for a newbee but certainly doable. I have the Lee 105g mould and it is a great little shooter too. It calls for a little more powder starting load because it is lighter and will start getting pushed faster than a heavier bullet which takes more to push so it builds up pressure easier. It is such a small amount of difference powder wise though so if you want a smaller bullet to conserve lead by all means get it, thats why I bought it.
Yes a top punch is for a sizer. It is shapped like the bullet tip so it doesn't deform the bullet when sizing. A top punch is not need for the Lee sizers or the Star because they are push though sizers, meaning you push them all the way through. The Lyman and RCBS get pushed down and back up.
Most people thin the Lee alox and that makes it go farther. It goes pretty far for the money anyway but is so thick you almost have to thin it anyway and it's not expensive. The Lee sizing system is the way to go if you want to coserve money, it's the cheapest. Also the Lee 6 cavity mould doesn't come with handles and has to be bought seperate where the 2 cavity does come with handles. Hope I helped and good luck!

[HeavyMetal]

GHH3RD:
Think I'd hold off on a 6 banger mold!

These can be a little testy for a newbie to deal with and, more importantly, you may not like the boolit! If you buy the same mold in the two banger it's less money and you don't have to buy handles which you will with the 6 banger!

The reason more powder was suggested is beyond me? A lighter boolit will travel faster and, all things being equal, should shoot lower than point of aim not higher!

Most Snubs are sighted in for the old 158 round nose lead "full power"? duty load. staying in that 145 to 158 grain range in payload will keep your sights in the ball park. The full wadcutter a much better boolit than the RNL!

You've gotten the right info on thining LLA nothing to add here but the suggestion to play with the applications until you get what you want.

As far as loading as cast? If they fit in the case and the case fits in the gun your good to go!

It's when they don't fit as cast that you start looking for other answers!

Keep us posted on how the casting works out for you!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, To try and sort out a few things for you. No equipment is crude if it works well for you; Rusty or dirty equipment can be cleaned up so that you 'll always be able to use it. Many legends in the game started with humble means. Pure lead is soft. It can be hardened with some tin, but antimony is better especially with some tin added. Wheel weights are already a good mix to add tin to; about 2-3% is good. A top punch is used in a resizer. If you do not (have to) resize then no top punch is needed. The exception is the (very effective and efficient and economical) Lee sizing system where the bullet is lubed in a pan and then pushed thru the sizing die nose first ( in a regular press). Liquid Lee lube-alox can be diluted so as to make more of it...there are options. There are posts on this forum that address the issue and there are lots of formulas for good bullet lube that work well. Read, copy notes on a pad, and then make decisions on what to try. You'll save money. Getting bullets out of a mold does not/should not require anything special other than a light tap on the hinge of the handles. if bullets don't drop easily or require a lot of whacking, then something is wrong. I saved the subject of mold selection for the last as it is kind of an open ended thing/discussion bases on several different factors. One of them is what kind of shooting you intend to do. Target?, self-defense?, plinking?, hunting? etc. A WC/wadcutter bullet especially if it is flat-faced is generally used for target as it cuts nice neat round holes in the paper and that makes it easier to score. 148 grains is the standard weight for those. It can be used in all of the calibers that you list...all of which run .357-.358. For smacking things generally at varying distances a round nose design or a SWC is used; Generally weighing 158 grains. SWC's also cut neat round holes because they have a sharp shoulder. Lighter bullets do conserve lead and also powder because you need less to drive them at a given velocity. There is a relationship between bullet weight, length and rifling twist in the barrel and going to lighter or heavier bullet weights does have an effect on the POA. But so does the length of the barrel and a snub nose which I think is 2 inches, isn't going to give the bullet much guidance over long(er) ranges. A 6 cavity mold can crank out a lot of bullets quickly. The Lee can do a good job if you keep the cavities smoked and any other directions given by the manufacturer. Don't be hesitant to ask as many questions that you may have until you have the answers that you need to succeed. the members of this forum are very knowledgeable and patient. Vitually all started out as beginners and made many mistakes along the way, so read, try and ask! Hope that this has started to help you on your way. Other forum members will fill in anything I missed. Good luck. LLS

[Gohon]

If that pot is cast iron, there is a easy way to clean it if all there is , is rust and you have a self cleaning oven. Put a double layer of aluminum foil covering the bottom rack and place the pot upside down on the center rack and turn the oven on for self cleaning. When finished and cooled down you will think it is worse than before you started as the pot will look like solid red rust. But take the pot and a SOS pad under running hot water and in seconds you will have a pot that looks like it just came off the store shelf. I've cleaned cast iron skillets this way that have been left to the elements for years and would have been thrown away by most people.

[jnovotny]

The advice you glean from the folks on this site is as good as you can come by, give your old stuff a try. You will be surprised at how good of boolits you can make with the equipment you already have. I,d also start with a two cavity mold, been casting with them for years. You can turn out a whole lot of boolits in a short amount of time. Get a good load manual and study it for some ideas about other wieghts of boolits, that will help you decide about a boolit mold.

[Bret4207]

Welcome! So far you've gotten some very good advice. I too started with and old pot and scrounged lead and what not. I soon was making fine boolits. It's the indian, not the arrow as they say!

I'd suggest a single or 2 cavity to start with. 6 bangers are nice but you need to learn to make GOOD boolits at first, speed and production come later. The frustration factor with a 6 cavity mould can be 100X that of a 1 or 2 banger. Read the "Leementing" posts, get the mould really clean and consider boiling the mould in soapy water for 1/2 hour, that seems to work for a lot of guys. If you think you have pure lead and want to add your tin, something about 1/20 tin/lead should be a good start. You can always add more or soften it later. Get the lead and mould hot before expecting good boolits. Wrinkled or partially filled cavities mean the mould is still cool. Pick up the pouring speed and maybe crank the heat up a bit. The lead alloy should flow like oil or syrup (more or less) and faster casting gets more heat into the mould. If you start getting frosty boolits that's okay, but slow your pace a little and they should still fill out and slowly lose the frosty appearance, yet still be nice boolits.

Don't fret over each boolit. You'll be breaking yourself in and the new mould, so the first 50-75 casts will be learning time, maybe the first 100 casts will be, it takes a little time. Rather than worrying over each boolit, worry about the mould- try and make sure the lead isn't smearing on the top or spattering on the inside. Spatter on the faces will hold the mould apart- can't cast good boolits like that. Smears on the top or on the underside of the sprue plate will gall the aluminum blocks real fast, so keep a little 4/0 steel wool and a wooden popsicle type stick around. Spatter can be removed by pushing/scraping with the wood stick and smears can be removed with the steel wool. You can use a little Liquid Alox, and I mean a LITTLE, near the joints as will be stated in the papers with the mould. I use a carpenters pencil to lube my moulds and if I get a rough spot from a smear I will rub the pencil across that area from time to time. Actually, rubbing the pencil across the top of the mould when brand new won't hurt. Just remember with lube or smoking a mould that a little goes a long way.

Try it and remember it's supposed to be fun. It takes a little while to get the hang of it, but you have everything you need to cast so far- a pot and dipper, a mould, some lead alloy and this place!

[mooman76]

Like other have said start off with a 2 banger. You can get both the 105g bullet mould and the WC mould in a 2x cheaper than the one 6x. Later on when you ahve a little experience and you start to figure out better your wants and needs you can pick up some 6x's.

[ghh3rd]

Wow - what a great group! Thanks for all of the advice and encourgement. I'll be cleaning up my pot today and ordering a mold. I can't wait until I cast my first good boolit and send it downrange.

Randy

[Willbird]

Honestly the 158 round/flat is one of my favorite Lee boolits, if I was going to suggest a first mold for 38 that would be my suggestion, the Tumble lube boolits are fine but I would suggest that you keep an eye on the seating depth of your ammo, the TL can build up in a bullet seater die and your bullets can go deeper and deeper if your not careful. Also you have to look at the TL bullets VERY closely to make sure they are properly filling out, they do not have many sharp corners to tell at a fast glance if your mold is working properly.

I got a 105 swc 6 cavity mold myself last week, I have cast a few but not sized or loaded any yet. On the more powder for lighter bullets issue, it IS true in 45 acp that 4.0 grains of bullseye will give a 180 less velocity than a 200. I have been told the fly weight bullets can be more cranky to get good accuracy with, I will find out next week :-).

Bill

[Shiloh]

Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL358-148WC 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 38 Colt New Police (358 Diameter) 148 Grain Tumble Lube Wadcutter

Randy

This is a good mold that produces great boolits that show fine accuracy.
This has been my experience in several .38/.357 handguns. The TL Series, especially the six bangers, produce a mountain of boolits in short order. They can be sized if needed (I do mine for consistancy purposes) lubed and loaded in a hurry.

The fine accuracy is a great benefit.

I have an old Lyman 35891 that produces fine boolits also. I run these through a lubrisizer but have TL'd these as well for target loads.


Shiloh

[mtguy]

I'm new to casting too, purchased the all-economical Lee set-up- 10# production pot,
2 cavity mold, sizing die and alox lube. Used anit-seize (waiting for bull lube to arrive) to lube the sprue plate and cams. I'm glad i started out with the double cavity instead of the 6 cavity mold. The first couple of dozen rounds i cast were thrown back in the pot, and then after that i started to get the hang of. The heating, cooling, lubing, etc. all started to make sense. I banged out about 280 good bullets in my first session, although i think i galled the top of the blocks a little.
Here's a sample of my results on my first day of casting (veterans- please let me know what you think of the top surface of the blocks...i noticed the galling and cleaned up as best i could and applied more anti-seize):

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l35/psdeavers/HPIM1108.jpg

If i ruined the mold, then at least it only cost me 20 bucks, i can afford to get another set at that price.

[Bret4207]

Mtguy- Welcome and those boolits look fine. The mould is a little beat up, but no unusable. I've got a few Lee's that look far worse than that that still work for me. I'd say you're off to a great start!

[mtguy]

Mtguy- Welcome and those boolits look fine. The mould is a little beat up, but no unusable. I've got a few Lee's that look far worse than that that still work for me. I'd say you're off to a great start!

Thanks! I'm a total nOOb to this casting thing. I shoot USPSA matches and ran into a problem getting boolits last year. I finally added things up and decided i have more time than money on my hands (especially during the winter months), so i finally took the plunge into casting with a rather small investment. I enjoy reloading and have found that casting my own boolits to be as satisfying, and saving me money at the same time!

[Wayne Smith]

ghh3rd

I'm still casting with a cast iron pot on a Coleman double burner stove, after about 10 yrs. Mainly because I cast BIG boolits at times. It works fine for the little ones, too!

I just started using wax as a lube, mine is Minwax floor wax. I'm lubing 32-20 boolits with it over 4.5gr Unique and not getting any leading. It's much more available than LLA.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Honestly the 158 round/flat is one of my favorite Lee boolits, if I was going to suggest a first mold for 38 that would be my suggestion, the Tumble lube boolits are fine but I would suggest that you keep an eye on the seating depth of your ammo, the TL can build up in a bullet seater die and your bullets can go deeper and deeper if your not careful. Also you have to look at the TL bullets VERY closely to make sure they are properly filling out, they do not have many sharp corners to tell at a fast glance if your mold is working properly.

I got a 105 swc 6 cavity mold myself last week, I have cast a few but not sized or loaded any yet. On the more powder for lighter bullets issue, it IS true in 45 acp that 4.0 grains of bullseye will give a 180 less velocity than a 200. I have been told the fly weight bullets can be more cranky to get good accuracy with, I will find out next week :-).

Bill

I agree with Willbird. The Lee 358-158-RF is great boolit in the 38 and .357. Would be a natural choice for a fixed sighted revolver since thats what most of them are sighted for. Don't get hung up on the mold being TL or not, you can tumble lube any bullet.
While it is an accurate boolit, the 105 SWC might not work well in fixed sighted guns because it won't shoot to the sights, most likely no matter how fast you push it. Light bullets just don't give enough muzzle rise because of their lighter recoil. If you up the speed to try and create more recoil, they get out of the barrel before that recoil can raise the muzzle, so they still won't shoot to the sights.

Willbird, you shouldn't have any problems with the 105 SWC. Using light target loads in my GP-100, I have yet to find a bullet that shoots as accurate as the 105 SWC out to at least 25 yds.

[leadman]

I've got an old S&W 36 with a 3" barrel and fixed sights. I cast the Lee 158 grain RFN boolit and it shoots to point of aim. Good accuracy and really wallops those jacks.

[HeavyMetal]

mtguy:
The mold doesn't look to bad. I will make a suggestion though, look carefully at the photo and examine the holes in the sprue plate.

Notice the lead buildup in the holes?? Bet they line up with the scoring on the top of the block! Think you need to wait a touch more before you open the mold and then make sure those are not there when you close the sprue plate! They score the mold when you close it!

I keep a piece of 1/4 inch round dowel near the pot with the end sharpened in an electric pencil sharpener! With this I can flick these babies right off, wearing glove no less!

You also don't want these on the sprue plate because they will fall inside during you're next pour and create voids or spots on the outside of your boolit. These can and will affect ballance which will affect accuracy.

Good choice in a mold by the way! I have a pair of 6 bangers in this design and wouldn't be without them!

I have saved several Lee molds with scoring like yours and worse. Short story is pull the sprue plate hold the blocks together and sand on a hard smooth FLAT surface! 600 grit is the paper to use.

Just enough to remove the marks and rotate the mold from side to side as well as fore and aft. This will keep the top square! Drill and tap the side of the block for a 6-32 set screw to lock the sprue plate screw down and you'll have an "adjustable" sprue plate bolt!

After that smooth sailin!

[clodhopper]

mtguy,
You will do all right with keeping an eye on the galling of that mould. I have an old Lee single cavity 7mm mould that looked much worse. Cleaned up the worst of the galling with light touch of a file on top of the blocks, avoiding the cavity. Mine was especally bad around the sprue plate screw where I had over tightened it in an attempt to keep the screw tight. Finally fixed that by drilling a hole into the side of the blocks that peneteared the sprue plate screw and installing self tapping screw.
That bull plate lube is reall good. I pull the cotton off the end of a q-tip and just get a small amount on the few fibers left on the bald end of the q-tip by mopping it out of the cap. No need to pour any in there, just the little bit sticking to the threads is plenty.
Any more will migrate into the cavity causing greif.
Just keep applying it whenever you feel a little drag.

[mtguy]

Thanks guys, i was one step ahead of you on cleaning up the blocks

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l35/psdeavers/HPIM1119.jpg

i'll wait until i get the bull plate lube before putting the sprue plate on again and i think i will drill for the set screw you recommended. Besides the galling on the right block, the worst scoring was under the sprue plate screw which i was able to get cleaned up fairly decent. I used 320 grit sandpaper on a piece of plate glass. I also did the same to the underside of the sprue plate to knock down any burs and slightly beveled the edges that drag on the block.

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack! Back to the main topic, i am glad about getting the double cavity mold over the 6 cavity design. If i can produce a few hundred during each casting session, that makes me happy! I like pacing my reloading and casting to last me through these winter months, by spring time i should have enough rounds loaded for competition to last me the season which will also give me more saddle time on the motorcycle in the warm months!

[HeavyMetal]

mtguy:
That mold cleaned up real nice!

Learning with a Lee 2 cavity mold is the cheapest route out there! The modifications you need to make on this mold are basically the same as on the 6 banger, so it's a win win deal.

Set up right, set screw and all, you will probabaly use this mold for many years if you handle it with care and pay attention to the junk on the sprue plate!

[shooterg]

I REALLY like the Lee 158 SWC tumble lubed mold, double or 6 banger. Shoot to same point of aim as commercial loads i was using. Not sizing 'em now for the old S&W 15 but was using Lee's push through. 50/50 wheelweight/range lead, using 3 grains 700X(because I had a couple lbs.) and the plate rack in the back yard catches all kinds of hell for about 3 or 4 cents a bang. Wish I'd started this stuff many years ago instead of after retiring !