The "Intermediate length" 24/47 Mauser Action

[Linstrum]

Over the last few months, several people, including me, have inquired here about just exactly what over all length cartridge the so-called intermediate length Yugoslavian 24/47 Mauser action can handle. Waksupi was pondering if one would handle the .35 Whelen and I was wondering if one would handle the 8mm-06 or .338-06.

I just bought a Yugoslavian 24/47 barreled action from Samco Global and just got finished measuring what OAL of .30-06 cartridge will fit in the magazine. The number that I came up with for my particular rifle receiver is an OAL of 3.213” will fit. I managed to photograph a cartridge that had been inserted all the way down to the bottom of the cartridge well, although the perspective doesn’t show very well that it is indeed all the way down at the bottom. The two cartridges in the next to last photo are just laying on the outside of the magazine, the upper one is an 8x57 and the lower one is the .30-06 with an OAL of 3.213". The last photo is the 24/47 compared to a long action 48/52c Yugolavian Mauser, which is based on the Czeck M24 and very close to the WW2 German Gewehr K98K Oberndorf/DWM Mauser. The bolt from my WW2 Oberndorf will fit and function in the 48/52c.

I test fired this barreled action and found out it is acccurate enough so that it would be a rather tragic waste to tear it down and re-barrel it. The 8x57 cartridge has some very good ballistic qualities, so it is staying in its original form!

[versifier]

Linstrum, I'm straying from topic, but what year was your Oberndorf made? I have a 1916 and was curious. I like the 8x57 a lot. It's a great deer, bear, and moose round, and while I could wish for a greater range of availabity of bullet weights, I have other rifles for the light ones. While my old girl doesn't like anything above moderate velocities and pressures, she and I are going to spend my declining years enjoying cast together.
To get back on topic, there are lots of medium length cartridges that that 24/47 action can handle without problems, like .22-250, .22-243, .243, 7-08, .308, .358. I'm glad you are keeping yours intact. But to anyone building a rifle on that action specifically for shooting cast bullets, the greater powder capacity of the -06 case is completely unnecessary. In any event, I am still not convinced that you can pull it off without feeding problems that may be insurmountable (after all, the action was designed specifically for the shorter 8x57 and 7x57 rounds). Even if they do fit in the magazine, that does not insure that they will feed properly. It would really bite the big one to go through the whole process of rebarreling to end up with a wall hanger. For a .30 cal rifle in the 24/47 action, the .308 or the wildcat .308x1.5" seem to me to be much more practical options.

[Linstrum]

Hi, there, versifier!

My Oberndorf was made in 1939 and is a Siege of Moscow battlefield pickup, so it is one of the ones made before the "last ditch effort" manufacturing of the mid '40s when the Nazi regime was falling apart.

Your point of avoiding the .30-06 cartridge is well taken, Ricochet and I have talked about what the possibilities are for re-barreling the various Mausers and for the 24/47 he mentioned using the 9x57 cartridge, which is of course the 8x57 opened up to nine millimeters. It would compare somewhere between the .358 Winchester and .35 Whelen, favoring the Whelen end of the scale. Chamber reamers for the 9x57 are apparently readily available from European sources, but a .358 x 57 chamber reamer would most likely be a special order.

[Hackleback]

There is also a 9.3 X 57 cartridge that I have seen; I think SARCO has imported them from Sweden in the $275-350 range. Boollit dia is .366 ". Is this the same as your 9 X57? I have been intreged with the 9.3 variants for a couple of years now, though I have not "bit the boolit" and got one yet. Should be a thumper at reasonable ranges.

[James Wisner]

HMMMM very interesting topic.

I missed this thread until now, otherwise I could have answered a lot of your questions.

A Yugo 24, 24/47 or 48 is a odd action from the standpoint that it has the intermediate bolt but the shorter reciever and guard.

FYI; guards from a Swede 96, 38, or M93/M95 will fit these Yugo actions. As the magazine location and length is the same as welll as the 8.625" screw spacing.

This action is ideal for up to the length you find in the existing guard. Which rules out NORMALLY the 30-06 size cartidges. This action is perfect for the 308 length cases with cast bullets as you can seat the bullet out where you want to.

It is possible, but not practiable to machine a new guard and remachine the reciever for a 30-06. However the cost of a new guard and the rail, bolt stop work which would be in the 500 - 600 dollar range makes it not feasable for most people.

I have a 24/47 action I am currently redoing for the 13 yr old neice as her first hunting rifle. I will barrel to 308, x 23" long x .560 muzzle dia. Remachine the front ring into a small ring on the sides but leave the top full diameter to blend in with the custom scope base. A classic bolt handle similar to a Burgess will go on, along with one of my M70 three poistion safeties. A timey trigger and a new hinged, inside bow release trigger guard will finish the bottom end. Custom scope rings of the old Kimber non detachable design, will hold a 3x9 Leupold scope. Then I just have to figure out a stock for her.

Regarding the 9 x 57.

About 12 years ago I got a reamer from Clymer for a job that fell thru. So I have a reamer here that I finally used for a personal project. Clymer told me at the time that they set it up for a .358 bullet rather that the normal .356 dia.

I have the metalwork almost done, just the open sights left to do. It is a 9 x 57 on a Swede 96 action with all the frills. The stock pattern is done so I will send it off to Al Lind after the ACGG show in two weeks. Have a old piece of fiddleback black walnut just gathering dust I thought I would use. Since it has a Shilen barrel with a 1 x 14 twist. I plan on shooting as many cast bullet wieghts as I can just to see how it works out. I currently have six 35 rifle moulds from 200 gr to 270 gr. It will finish up to be about 8 1/2 pounds fully loaded, so it should be a sweet one in the field.

After I get it shooting will drop back in and let you guys know how it went.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

[Frank46]

Hackleback, speaking on the 9.3x57 mauser ctg. The one husky that I got from sarco was in this caliber. One member of this board was very generous and sent me 100 lyman 250gr plain based boolits and I purchased 300 287gr gas checked lyman boolits from Bullshop. Very well cast. Now I have absolutely no excuse whatsoever in purchaseing a set of dies and getting the old girl barking again. The rifle in question has a pre-war FN action, came drilled and tapped with weaver bases and the bolt was altered for scope use. The bore took a lot of work to clean and polish up. There is some minor pitting from corrosive ammo.
The stock is definitely european, schnableforend tip, checkering, and a rather long length of pull, almost 15 inches. Look in the factory guns for some posts regarding my rifle. Frank

[brimic]

Everything on your intermediate action rifle is going to be 1/4" shorter than a standard mauser 98 action. You can verify this by measuring the stripped bolts and comparing.

[Four Fingers of Death]

A project that I have always fancied is a 338/08. I reckon this would speak with fair authority in the bush and be a good cast performer. If you were going to use cast exclusively, the 358Win would no doubt be better, but would not have as much novelty value.

[Hackleback]

The 9X57 sounds very nice; full use of the magizine/rifles' capacity W/O extra work plus the use of components that are readally avalible (358 boolits & ?? x 57 brass) I assume that you can just neck up 8X57 brass and load? The only kicker might be dies. Performance should fall nicely between 358 and 35 whelen. I may have to investigate this further.....

Boyd make stocks that fit the intermedate actions such as Yugo 24/47 & 48

[waksupi]

From the photos, it appears a .30-06, or .35 Whelen would function, assuming a flatnosed cast bullet. And if the feed rails will allow it to feed. It should be downright sweet for a .358 Win.

[versifier]

The main advantage of the -06 over the .308 is its ability to better handle bullets of 200 grains and up. (I know you can get 1-200 fps more out of the -06 on a good day with the lighter bullets, but that difference is negligable on game if you put the bullet where it's supposed to go. The dead deer in the freezer won't be complaining.) If you can't load the heavier bullets that are the only real advantage to the cartridge, why bother to even consider it? I do not know from my personal experience, but I would logically (oh-oh not logic again!) assume that the same argument would hold true for the .35Whelen vs. the .358win. If the Whelen would fit and function, which to my mind is questionable, you would still be limited to the lighter bullets with it and any advantage it may have over the .358win is negated. I'd go with the .358win over the 9x57 as the brass is readily available as are the dies to load it. The 9x57 would require fireforming the cases and the dies are special order. You could buy a lot of powder and primers just for the difference in the cost of the dies.
Personally, I think the Whelen in a 98 action with 250's or bigger would be the cat's ass for hunting moose and other very large game. The .308 with 180's does do the job, but it often takes more than one shot. The -06 with 200's or 220's isn't necessarily the magical answer, either, though - as they are not the smartest critters around and it does take them a while sometimes to figure out they're dead and decide to fall over.

[Hackleback]

Redding dies for $47. Not bad.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=160098

I will agree with you that the 358 is more practicle. You have to agree that the 9x57 has the "funk" value that many of us like. I have this thing about puting short action rounds in a long action (intermediate actions in this case) guns; it just seems like a waste of usable space in the action (this must be one of those personal quirk things that we all have). I am not advocating jamming some "uber mag" round in a standard action either.

[StarMetal]

Hack,

Just think though, with a short round in an intermediate lenght action you can load the bullets out that otherwise in a short action infringed on the powder space. I had a 6.5 Jap rebarreled to 260 Remintong and that's exactly what I do. Now I get the full benefit of that 308 case with all bullet weights.

Joe

[Hackleback]

Star,

Good point.
In escence, you are loading a SA round to intermediate specs. This really comes into play when you get to the upper end of boolit ranges, long heavy boolits that normally would take up a lot of case space due to the need to deep seat to get the round to fit the magazine. To get the full bennifit, would you need to use a long throat/extra free bore to seat the boolits out further than spec?

[StarMetal]

Yes, you would have to throat out further. The SAAMI specs for the 260 gives it an entirely too short throat. So I got a throating reamer and made is longer.

Joe

[carpetman]

Versifier---I look at the only advantage of the .308 over the 30-06 is that the short cartridge is better adapted to actions other than bolt. For my purposes if going bolt action,I see no reason for the .308. You are correct,bullet in right place,deer won't know the difference. The Win 88 lever .308 I recently gave my grandson is good example. He used a finishing neck shot on one that was down and two others were one shot deals. He has shot it six times and put three deer in freezer. Many wont agree with this,but I use 150 grainers in both 30-06 and .308 and that's for the larger ones(moose)as well.

[StarMetal]

Ray,

I agree with you on the 150 grs in the 06 and 308. When I lived in PA I saw alot of my friend use 180 grs. I thought that was too much for PA deer, especially the smaller mtn ones. Now the farm area deer are much heavier, but still don't warrant a 180 gr in my opinion. When I reload my 06 I like the 165 gr Hornady. It's a good compromise.

Joe

[versifier]

I just plain like 150gr bullets in all my .30's, and would not use anything bigger on deer, no need to. The minimal recoil and excellent accuracy of my preferred deer hunting bullets (Sierra 150SBT) are big plusses. While I have witnessed moose taken with 150gr bullets, they would not be my choice, though there is a Nosler 150PAR I might try if pressed. With a small diameter bullet like the .30 calibers, I think you need the greater weight for better penetration. 1000lbs of critter takes a lot of stopping power. Also, the lower velocities of cast boolits call for as much weight as you can seat and feed. This strengthens the case for short action chamberings, even if you need to modify the throat a little.
As to the 9x57, it is certainly an interesting idea and I would enjoy a rifle so chambered, dies, and a few boxes of cases to play with. But the incidental expenses would be so much higher, special order reamer, special order dies, and the extra labor of forming the cases because I doubt you could find the boxer primed variety. Then there would be no way to sell it if I got tired of it without rebarreling first. Not that you can ever have TOO MANY Mausers.....

[waksupi]

Some of you know more about actions than I do. Will the .308 based cartridges work in a short action?

[bruce drake]

Your Intermediate Length Action will handle any .473 diameter cartridge the same length or shorter than a 8mm Mauser. Thus said, 308 Winchester should be an easy rebarrel job. If you are a tinkerer or have to have things just right, you can always put in a Mauser Short Action Magazine Feed Kit and adjust the block of plastic to fit the length of your cartridge.

I took an intermediate action and rebarrelled for 257 Roberts. Same length as a 8mm and it feeds and functions perfectly normal.

Bruce