First Cast Help...

[TimBoothe]

Hi all,

Need some help please. The attatched picture is of some casts that I made last night. I'm assuming from compairing my casts to the pictures in my Lyman book that my mold is too cold. From left to right in the picture, the first 4 certainly seem to tell me that this is the case. What about the last two on the far right? If you look closely you can see....I'll call it "layering" for a better term. You can actually feel the little lines in the boolit.

First off, my process. I set my mold on top of my drip-o-matic to start out, got the melt up to around 750. The mold sat on top for around 10 minutes or so. I then turned the temp down to around 650-700, removed my Lyman thermometer and started to cast. This mold is a 6-banger and I made around 12 casts. All showed signs of what I think is a cold mold, except the last couple of casts which had the "layering" affect. I even stuck the mold down into the furnace (not into the melt) and let it sit for 2-3 minutes. Hoping to get the mold warmer I would even let the boolits stay in the mould while I cut the top off and threw the leftovers back into the melt thinking that the longer the boolits stayed in the mold, the more heat the mold would soak up.

#1 Do you folks think that my mold is not warm enough?
#2 On the layering, am I correct in assuming that maybe I should get the melt itself hotter to correct this?

Thanks a million,
TimBoothe

[Matt_G]

Definitely a cold mould. You say it is a 6 banger so I am assuming it's a Lee mould.
While I have never used a Lee mould, I have read here that will have to cast fast in order to get that mould up to temp.
Aluminum loses heat faster than steel or iron does.

You may want to up to the temp of the melt to 750, leave flux floating on the top so you cut down the amount of tin loss due to oxidation, and try to cast very quickly at first to get the mould up to casting temp.

I'm sure someone else will chime in here shortly; someone with a lot of experience with Lee moulds.

[docone31]

The pot, and mold, are way too cold. Sometimes I just let the castings sit in the mold to absorb the heat.
It is just plain too cold. The rounded corners, wrinkles, layering, crank that puppy up.

[44man]

Yes that is a cold mold. Turn the pot up some too. Preheat the mold. Get a cheap hot plate, put a hunk of metal on it and set your mold on the metal. Don't use aluminum, it might melt, thin steel about 1/16" thick or a little more is better.
I made a little furnace out of an electrical box. I hinged the top, cut a hole for the handles in the front and put a little BBQ thermometer in the top. I put this on the hot plate. I find 500* is perfect to start casting. Play with the setting and you can hold 500* nicely.
My first boolit will be perfect.
You can also dip the bottom front end of your mold into the molten lead for a short time, don't worry, lead will not stick to it once it is hot. You can also play a propane torch all over the blocks evenly, don't hold it in one place.
Once you start to get good boolits, keep a steady even pace and the mold will stay just right. If you get too fast, the boolits will frost.

[Tom Herman]

I concur.. Stuff is WAY too cold. I usually cast everything at 750-800 degrees (per the control on my Pro-Melt) except for the .455 Webley hollow base that needs the alloy as hot as i can get it.
I use Lyman iron molds, so I can't speak on aluminum, but I put a passle of then on my electric stove set to between 2 and 3, and that gets them up to temp.
One other thought: How fast are you pouring the lead, and are you ladling or bottom pouring? The last two look like they were poured slow.
And what alloy are you using? I use 50/50 wheel weights to scrap lead, plus 2% tin for better fillout.
All in all, you're doing good. Welcome to the world of the learning curve! Once you get over this, you'll be casting great stuff! hang in, there and continue to ask questions. It's a great feeling when you master the process and turn out great stuff practically all the time.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[44man]

OOPS, a six banger needs a bigger mold furnace! [smilie=1:

[jonk]

For the 6 cavity I either stick the end of the mold in the pot for a good 2 minutes, or if the lead level is too low to do that, put it on a hot plate for about 4 minutes. Note I say in the pot- and that means contacting the lead. Just the radiant heat from teh air in the pot will warm it some but not enough. Then start casting. Much easier to start with a mold that's too hot and let it cool than try to get a dead cold mold up to temp just by casting.

Is that the Lee 200 gr SWC .45? If so good bullet- to get it to feed well I had to actually seat the bullet below the driving bands and lube grooves but your mileage may vary.

[TimBoothe]

Thanks a million for the replies fellas. I will certainly look into a hot plate and keep the mold at 500. I'll also go ahead and crank the heat up on the melt itself to around 800. Tom, I'm bottom pouring, on the last two I was litterally running out of metal so yes they did pour very slow.
As far as alloy goes, I'm experimenting at the moment. Right now I'm mixing 3/1, 3 of some very soft lead and 1 of WW. I'm trying to get a bhn of 10-12 for 45 ACP. My WW came out at 15 and the softer stuff around 8 on the bhn scale. So I'm basically trying to figure out how to obtain that magic number by mixing hard and soft.

Jonk, the mold is a TL-452-230-TC Lee 6-banger.

Fellas, thanks so very much. There is a hell of a lot more to this than meets the eye.

TimBoothe

[docone31]

When I first got into casting, I thought to myself,
Just get a mold, pour em, and stuff em in a cartridge and blaze away!
Well, I have learned some things since then.
I saw those six cavity molds and jus thought how great it would be.
Heck, I have my hands full with two cavity molds. I am getting pretty good at it now, but, I might have given it all up if I had started with a six cavity mold.
I had read these accounts of mountain men sitting by the campfire, casting some balls up, hunting, living off the land, etc....
More power to them. I am not sure I could tote all that equipment, make camp, make fire, cast away and get any results at all.
You have to know your stuff casting.
Alloy, sizing, load, dies, etc.
Much better to sit, cast for a long time, size after hours, and rounds at the range, and just keep a stock on hand. Then there is lube. Leading.
I am at the point where I can cast some silver for my shop, fire up the pot of lead, cast a bunch, size them, sit down later and paper patch them.
I sure made some crap in the beginning.
I had visions of casting for my .243, 25-06, .308, 30-06, getting five shot clover leafs everytime....
It took me a year to get my .30s, and .303 British down pat. Now I can just do them. I can read the mold, the casting, the alloy. I can size them so they do not warp, patch them so they do not look like a Kindergartener did not do them, or an Hippie from a Freedom School.
They work now.
Next, 25-06.
Then .243.
All paper patched.

[weakhand luke]

Yep, could mould.

[montana_charlie]

I'd say the lens on your mould has an astigmatism, and your melting pot is out of focus.
You may need to turn off the digital zoom on the bottom pour spout, and switch the mould into portrait format.

But seriously...

All showed signs of what I think is a cold mold, except the last couple of casts which had the "layering" affect.
Don't fool yourself when trying to will bullets into being 'acceptable'.
When the bullets look exactly like the cavity in your mould, you have everything working right...

CM

[Bret4207]

Pour faster, turn the heat up. Get a rhythm going and soon they'll start popping out good ones.

[Willbird]

OK, one thing I think is important if you did not do so yet.

Take that mold and an old toothbrush and some dawn dish soap and scrub the bejeebus out of it under HOT water, then rinse it off good and let it air dry. There can be "stuff" in a lee mold, I think from the metal cutting coolant that laquer thinner or brake clean will not remove, but dish soap does.

I only smoke a mold if I have to, I try it naked first and almost always it will work if you coax it, if it does need smoked I smoke a HOT mold with a butane grill lighter.

If the mold is working properly casting from WW with no tin the alloy can be running almost like soft serve ice cream and it will fill.

It helps to bring a mold up to temp if you pour a very generous sprue I think.

Some molds when they are cranky work better filling from the operator end back to the other end, once they are hitting good it does not seem to matter.

I run my pot wide open on temp and press the mold on a damp towel when it gets too hot, then quench it less if it seems to get cold....this I think gives a lot more control than running a colder alloy.

The little tiny bullets like a 30/32 caliber 115 grain round nose are the real buggers to get running in a six banger..............the bigger the bullet the easier it is to keep the mold running hot.

Bill

[TimBoothe]

Well, I'll be on the way into town to pick up a hot plate here in a little bit. Willbird, I'll make sure and scrub the mold clean with soap. I did use mineral spirits to clean the all of the oil and what not off of it when I first got it and then smoked it good.

Hopefully I'll be able to do some more casting either tonight or tomorrow and will post some updated pics.

Thank you gentlemen,
TimBoothe

[Willbird]

Tim I have cleaned them with brake clean, and fought them, and scrubbed them with soap and water and had them reform :-), I spoke of my suspicions of "something" being on them, Felix thought it might be the cutting coolant lee uses, and I agree with that hypothesis.

Bill

[TexRebel]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Galena

[AZ-Stew]

Tim,

If you haven't plugged in that hotplate yet, you might want to wait a bit.

First, mineral spirits will leave an oily residue on your mould. Save it for other projects. Take a toothbrush and dish washing soap to your mould and scrub it out thoroughly.

Next, the mould can be heated thoroughly by casting as quickly as you can until the boolits show that the mould is filling correctly. The time will vary, depending on the size of the boolit (yours shouldn't take too long because the boolit is large with respect to the size of the mould block), the temperature of the alloy you're casting with and the length of time between casts. It's important that you not inspect each boolit as it's cast or try to return sprue material to the pot during this "quick cast" time, but rather just crank them out as fast as you can for a time. Also, as someone else said, a generous sprue is a good thing. It adds heat to the mould. You'll need to develop this habit later to ensure that the boolit cooling in the mould cavity has a place from which to suck additional metal as it cools and shrinks. Otherwise, you'll end up with base voids.

Third, once you get the mould up to temp, you can slow down a bit. I don't run my pot hot, just hot enough to produce good boolits (750 - 775 with WW, a bit hotter with pure lead for muzzle loaders). This will require some experimentation on your part to find the temp where your mould and alloy work together. As mentioned, you need to develop a rythm, or routine, that keeps you casting at the same rate, i.e., the same time between casts. Once my moulds are up to temp, I cast, wait for the sprue to solidify, cut the sprue, drop the boolits, roll them across the towel for initial fillout inspection and roll them to the "good" and "bad" piles, use pliers to put the sprue back in the pot, then throw the next cast. This routine keeps the mould at a more consistent temperatue than running a hot pot and cooling the mould with a wet towel after it gets too hot. This results in more uniform boolits and eliminates the possibility of warping a mould.

Try to keep the pot near full. This will help keep the pour speed consistent in a bottom-pour pot.

Lastly, all the boolits in your photo show that the mould is too cold. When the mould is at the proper temperature, the alloy you cast will ALL remain liquid in the cavity until it is full. What you call "layering" is due to the alloy cooling as soon as it hits the mould, then another bit being poured on top of it and cooling, followed by another and another. The ones with the vertical grooves show that the alloy hit one side of the cavity and cooled, followed by alloy filling the remaining volume of the cavity.

I began casting using a Lyman ladle, melting my alloy in an old pipe tobacco can on a gas stove. Money spent on equipment doesn't necessarily make better boolits, it just makes the casting easier.

Regards,

Stew

[TimBoothe]

Well fellas,
I finally got all of the above problems figured out. I cranked up the heat of the melt to around 775 and I got a hot plate to set the mold on in between castings. Works like a charm.

Now the only problem that I'm having is that my mold seems to have developed parting lines. I checked and double checked to make sure that no crap is keeping the halves apart, it's 100% not the problem. I can hold the mold up to a light and see daylight plain as day. Since this mold is practically brand new, I'll probably end up sending it back and Lee can either fix it or send me a new one.

Thanks for all of the help folks,
TimBoothe

[Willbird]

There is no reason why you cannot carefully deburr the mating faces with a norton stone, I lay it FLAT on the face and rub it lightly, you will feel a burr if there is one, you have to work around the dowels a bit. You may find upon careful eyeballing that one of the dowels or bushings is a bit high.

Bill