Need 44 mag loads for 1894 & Colt

[HavasuMike]

I just joined the forum today. I found it while looking for some 44 mag bullets that will work in both my Marlin 1894 and my Anaconda pistol. I do not cast my own yet so I am looking for a supplier also. During my investigation, I ran into several concerns. One is whether there is a leading problem or not. Another is whether to use gas checks of not. Should I use lead or bonded bullets? How do I determine what diameter to get? The bullets seem to go from .429 to .432. Can I use the same loads for the pistol and rifle? Also what weight bullets would work best in both guns?

I know that there are a lot of questions and probably other things that I might think about. Maybe I shouldn't concern myself with any of them and just buy something and get on with it.

[leadeye]

Marlin 1894s can run large in the bore, is it a microgroove? Your anaconda should have slightly wider cylinder throats than your bore. Best thing to do first is to get these measurements by slugging both guns. It will be tough to buy one bullet for both guns if there is a big spread between the two. Your anaconda is probably .429 and the Marlin could be .431. I have the same issue with my S&W and Marlin.

[HavasuMike]

It's not microgroove. It's Ballard.

How critical is the bullet size? I've been loading for my pistol without thinking about size. The loads were mainly for plinking though. The hunting loads were not lead. I just got the 1894 and have only shot factory loads.

[454PB]

First, welcome to the forum!

Boolit size is critical, but you won't know what size you need until you do some measuring. You need bore measurements from each firearm, and you need throat measurements on the revolver. We usually size .001" to .002" over bore diameter, but if your Anaconda has a .430" bore and .428" throats, the boolit is already undersized before it reaches the barrel. With the rifle, this is not normally a problem. If the bore is .430, you would want to size .431 or so and as long as the seated boolit will chamber freely, you are OK.

You can see that if the measurements are correct in both guns, they both should shoot well with no leading. If they aren't, you have to deal with them on an individual basis.

In my case, I own several rifles and revolvers that shoot the same ammunition. Because all the measurements are within the correct parameters, I don't have to worry about segregating ammunition, other than a compromise on OAL for proper feeding in the lever guns.

If you have questions about how these measurements are taken, you can find the answers here.....ask away!

[HavasuMike]

OK, How do I take the measurements? I have calipers.

[Larry Gibson]

HavasuMike

I've loaded for both a M94 .44 and an Anaconda. I still have the anaconda because; I like it and it is the most accurate .44 I've ever had. If you can get GC'd bullets then get .430" bullets. Work up the accuracy load for the rifle staying within max load limits for the Anaconda (they are hell for stout and will take any reasonable load a Redhawk will take). The reason is you will poop out accuracy wise using a PB (probably BB also) in the rifle before a max load for the Anaconda is reached. So, with PB based bullets you work up the accuracy load (probably in the 1450 -1550- fps range and then just accept what you get in the Anaconda.

Now if you can get some GC'd bullets it's a whole new ball game! With those you load for the Anaconda pressure and accuracy wise and then accept what you got in the rifle.

I found best accuracy with the rifle was with a 240 gr commercial cast PB/BB ove 7.5 gr of Unique. Velocity was right at 1000 fps out of the 16" rifle. Anything over that (tried different makes of bullets with no difference) and accuracy suffered. That was a "plinking load" for a .44 mag revolver and ran 780 fps out of the 4" Anaconda.

I cast my own 429244s which were GC'd and weighed 270 gr. Over 23 gr H4227 they ran 1150 fps out of the 4" Anaconda and right at 1500 fps out of the 16" M94. Accuracy was excellent for both.

BTW; PMC 180 gr SPs ran 1500 fps out of the Anaconda and 1990 fps out of the M94.

Larry Gibson

[deepocean]

Is it necessary to make measurements on a new 1894SS, or will the 429244 mold likely produce bullets that will work well with the 20" barrel?

Would this bullet likely work well out of a 629 6 1/2" factory power port?

Which brand of gas check would work best with the 429244?

[MakeMineA10mm]

First of all, welcome to the forums! These guys are smarter than all get-out and generally friendly, too!

Since you're not set up for casting your own, you should understand a couple things. First, you will have no control over your alloy, and the commercial casters' alloy will probably be harder than what you need, for the most part. Second, you will have little control over the size-to diameter, except by choosing different suppliers. There ARE a few suppliers who offer the same boolit in a range of sized-to diameters, but they're infrequent.

That said, don't despair too much. If your loads are kept on the reasonable side of pressure and velocity, improper fit (as long as it isn't way too far off) and alloy hardness won't cause too many problems. In other words, you'll get to shoot with reasonable accuracy on the cheap!

Now, as far as sizes - On the revolver, you want to take your calipers and measure the insides of the THROAT. That is the part of the chamber on the barrel-end of the cylinder. Since it is round, you must be careful to measure at 180-degree separated points. Even then, unless you're caliper has very thin blades, you may be off by a thousandths or two. This is why many people use pin gauges or drive an over-sized boolit or round ball through the throat and measure that. It's easier to get a more accurate measurement that way.

Once you've measured the throats, check the barrel. This you do by driving through an over-sized lead ball or bullet and measure it across the grooves (the highest points on the ball/bullet). Now, compare your throat measurements to the bore measurement. If the throats are bigger than or the same size as the barrel, you're fine. Size your bullets (or specifiy the size from your commercial bullet supplier) to the throat diameter.

If the throats are smaller than the barrel, you almost assuredly will have major problems getting reasonable accuracy. The only option is to get the throats reamed out to the bore size or .001" over bore size. Luckily, this doesn't happen too much, but you won't know until you do some measuring.

Now, drive a ball/bullet through the barrel of your Marlin. Measure the highest points on that bullet. If you're REALLY, REALLY lucky, it will be the same size or within .001" of the revolver's throats. If so, you're in business and can work with a bullet of one size, that fits both of your guns.

If you're buying commercial bullets of the usual 92-2-6 alloy, you'll want to stick with loads that develop 900fps to 1250fps. This is the range that develops about the right pressure for that hardness of boolit. This will cause obturation of the bullet in the tube, which enhances accuracy and reduces leading.

There's lots more to learn here; just keep reading old threads that talk about these things.

[HavasuMike]

Well, I tried the calipers. I was not very successful. Where do I get a couple of lead bullets or balls to drive through? What do I use to drive it through? I'm starting to think that this is getting way too complicated. Maybe I should just go out and buy a bunch of bullets and go shooting.

[leadeye]

I use soft lead muzzle loader balls as I have a lot of them, oil them up and spray something in the barrel to make them slide easier. I use Kroil for this. Some use fishing sinkers. I tap them down the barrel with a mallet and a close fitting wood dowel. Measure what comes out with calipers or a mic. It sounds complicated but once you get your measurements they don't change and you have a place to start. I really pays off in accuracy down the road.

I cast just to have cheap plinking ammo 25 years ago and knew very little, didn't even try to make an accurate load. After retirement and getting back into casting I picked up a lot of info from members of this board. Now I hunt with cast and shoot very little else.:-D

[EDK]

I used boolits of various diameters in the throats of an assortment of pistols. Just keep trying them until you find a diameter that won't go through. I ended up using a sized diameter just under .432 from my STAR for a"one size fits all" for multiple guns that I'm trying to keep supplied with cast boolits.

Try Beartooth Bullets for different sizes and designs of boolits. They also have a good web site. Marlinowners.com has a lot of information also.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[454PB]

Well, I tried the calipers. I was not very successful. I'm starting to think that this is getting way too complicated. Maybe I should just go out and buy a bunch of bullets and go shooting.

Now you know why probably 75% of those that have bought or were given cast boolits got bad results on the first try and gave up. If you truly feel this way, jacketed bullets is your answer. I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, but the use of cast boolits requires extra effort and preparation unless you are exceptionally lucky.

[Boomer Mikey]

You guys are making this way too hard for a newbie.

With cast bullets it's usually best to load the largest diameter bullet that will chamber reliabily.

For 44 Magnum, buy bullets at 0.431" - 0.432" diameter; almost any 44 Magnum will chamber a 0.432" bullet... if they are too large buy a LEE sizing kit for 0.430" bullets and re-size them. As you already have a reloading press this will get you started cheap (less than $20.00).

Buy the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook: $16.00 at MidwayUSA
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=796528

You have no business loading cast without a good reference.

Verify load data with at least 2 published sources until you gain enough experience to completely understand what you're doing.

Beartooth Bullets is a good supplier; the website has lots of good information and I highly recommend his book (Marshall Stanton).

https://beartoothbullets.com/images/Tech_Guide_Front_View.jpg


https://beartoothbullets.com/index.htm

Why not check with "The Bullshop" at the bottom of this page. Any of the serious bullet suppliers can provide you with 0.432" bullets.

Be Safe,

Boomer :Fire:

[HavasuMike]

OK, assuming i can get some cast bullets, I'll try it. Which end should I go from in the rifle? Or doesn't it matter? Who has the softest lead bullets?

[HavasuMike]

Was checking out the Beartooth website and found some "oval egg sinkers" used for slugging. I also saw a technical guide for cast bullets. I am going to order these and get on with it.

[HavasuMike]

I got the slugs and the beartooth manual the other day. Today I cleaned the rifle and ran the slug thru according to the instructions. I measured the bore at .430. Does this sound normal for an 1894? What size bullets should I get? Any suggestions for a supplier and a bullet type?

I have decided to load for the rifle separately from the pistol. I haven't slugged the pistol yet.

[454PB]

For good results, you'll need .431" diameter. Since I don't buy cast boolits, I can't suggest a supplier, but I believe our own Bullshop supplies custom sized boolits. His link is at the bottom of this page.

[Larry Gibson]

Is it necessary to make measurements on a new 1894SS, or will the 429244 mold likely produce bullets that will work well with the 20" barrel?

Would this bullet likely work well out of a 629 6 1/2" factory power port?

Which brand of gas check would work best with the 429244?

Boomer Mike is correct; it is getting pretty complicated for a newbie.

I, like many thousands of .44 shooters, have shot one heck of a lot of cast bullets (commercial and home cast) sized .429 with very good if not excellent accuracy before I ever learned I was "supposed to mic the throats and slug the bore". It really is not all that necessary to mic throats or slug bores on new rifles and handguns to get them shooting decently. Once you understand the nature of reloading and casting bullets then you should get into the more intricate stuff. If you are not "into" reloading let alone casting at this time then trying to measure all the things mentioned will get very confusing.

I suggest you find a supplier that sells .430 - .432 cast bullets. GC'd ones are preferable for the top end loads in the rifle. Get the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and learn how to reload by reading it. As stated also you do need a good reference and that is the best to start with.

The 429244 will work extremely well in both the Marlin rifle and the 629. I use Hornady GCs. Hornady makes Lyman's GCs for them now.

Larry Gibson

[HavasuMike]

Thanks for all the help. I feel like I can get started now. I reload but do not cast my own. I tried to get the lyman book but it was out of stock. I'll pick it up asap. While I'm waiting for that, I'll start looking for some bullets.