Annealing cases with hot lead

[rvpilot76]

Anyone done this? It was suggested to me by someone who had done it, but I'm not so sure. How hot does a brass case neck have to get before it is considered annealed? Did a search on the subject and came up with a bunch of different answers. Thanks, fellas.

Kevin

[Buckshot]

................You got different answers because there are different ways of getting it done. I had always used a propane torch trying severl different methods. I finally came across a very slow speed geared motor.

http://www.fototime.com/291176B10BFB83D/standard.jpg

I cobbled up the above rig. There is an aluminum adapter on the motor shaft to take a shell holder. Since the motor and consequently the cartridge case can be moved closer-farther away, and up or down, the number of revolutions the case makes before getting pulled and dropped into water varies.

Before I built the above I tried annealing in molten lead. I didn't like it as it was a PITA so far as I'm concerned. I had lead sticking to the case inside the caseneck, and on the outside. I know you're supposed to polish them or have them pretty clean to use the lead method. Anyway I didn't like it. I couldn't see the heat coloration on the case move down, and it was hot holding the case down in the lead.

Probably more then anything, the fact that I had always used a propane torch before and was used to it may have colored my opinion somewhat. However, had it been easier and faster then the torch I'd have switched.

.......................Buckshot

[Jumptrap]

I swear Rick, you have more goodies than Kelloggs has Corn Flakes! Too cool.

I have wondered, just what method do the factories use? It has to be high speed, consistent, and of course economical to scale. I have some gorgeous Hirtenberger 308 brass that shows evidence of their annealing process. It is very even and goes to just past the shoulder to the case body. By the way, this is some of the very finest brass i have ever had. i bought 2 cases (1000 rds) of this boxer primed ammo from Century years ago. The accuracy was phenomenal and i killed too many deer to admit, using it. It was also the first time i used round nosed bullets on game. I have never looked back. Pointy jacketed bullets are fine, but they pale in comparison to a softpointed round nose. Sorry to have gotten off track..hehe!

[D.Mack]

rvpilot 76, try the search at the top of this page, several people use this method, by holding the case in thier fingers till the base gets uncomfortable then dropping it into water. I've never had good luck this way, so I use a propane torch. I stand the brass up in a shallow pan of water, (an 8 X 11 cake pan works great) Making sure the case head is submerged, then I play the torch over the neck area, I usually try to go over the top of the neck so I am heating the front and back at the same time. This also preheats the next case in line. I watch for a color change, either straw or blue to move past the area I want to anneal, then tip the case over with a piece of wire, and move to the next case. The biggest concern is to make sure you don't anneal the case head, as this can cause case head separation. As long as the case head is under water level, it may boil a little, but wont soften enough to be a problem. The first time you fire the case it will begin to reharden. DM.

[Ricochet]

I've tried annealing with lead, and couldn't ell the necks had softened up. I was using wheelweight metal with my Lee pot turned all the way up. Don't have a lead thermometer. Giving them a quick twist in a wad of steel wool as they came out of the lead took care of deposits.

The factories run the cases between a couple of gas flame jets.

[Wayne Smith]

I use this method to anneal 30-06 brass before necking up to 8mm. I hold the brass in the melted lead to a slow count of 3 and it does fine. An obvious difference between those I've annealed and those I've not annealed.

Now that I have a couple of k31's and Hornaday dies I'm gonna anneal those about every three loadings cause the dies apparently aren't k31 dies.

Somewhere I read that brass has to get to something around 400 degrees to be annealed. Anyway, I remember thinking that it was well less than my melt.

[scrapcan]

I use a small propane torch and use a drill with a nut driver that the case will just fit in. Put the case in the driver and the rotate in the flame. When satisfied with anneal, tip the drill and drop the case into a bucket/pan/bowl of water. the only thing is you must be careful of how far the anneal goes down the case, which is true for whatever method you choose.

Works prety good because all you have to do is run the drill. torch holds itself and bucket of water is not going anywhere.

[Ricochet]

Like I said, I just turned my Lee pot all the way up and let it heat up a long time. I plunged my .30-06 cases in mouth first to the bottom of the shoulder and held 'em for 10 seconds. By then the head of the case would be getting pretty hot to hold onto with bare fingers, but not to a temperature that'd soften the heads. The necks were still hard, not snugging down enough with my Lee collet sizer to hold .308" bullets. I figured I might be getting them up to an annealing temperature, but not for long enough.

[swheeler]

maybe your fingers are "tender" from plucking those guitar strings

[Maven]

rvpilot, I've tried the hot alloy method of annealing, but found it presented certain problem, namely metal soldered to the cases. If you have a thermometer, set your pot's thermostat (or the gas flame if that's what you use) so that it maintains 600-650 deg.F. Clean your case necks & shoulders with steel wool and then rub oil or ATF on the cleaned area. Dip the oiled case into the hot alloy for ? seconds and then into cool water. (You don't want to do the reverse!!!) That should recrystallize the brass. Btw, if you can find an alcohol lamp such as dentist & jewelers use, you can use it to anneal brass. The beauty of it is that it's inexpensive, as is the fuel, and it won't overheat the metal.

[waksupi]

I hold the brass in some pliers. When the lead is not longer sticking to the case, it is up to the right temperature. Or, I should say I used to. A buddy made a little carosel thingy, that rotates in front of a pair of torches, and then they automatically fall into a bucket of water. Much easier.

[felix]

Not true, Hpdrifter. Brass softens whenever the temp is high enough, and for a period of time at that temperature. In other words, higher the temp, the shorter the time for the same amount of anneal. Rapid cooling has nothing to do with it, unlike lead alloys. The only reason folks do rapid cooling is to assure the base part of the brass does not ever get to an annealing temp. ... felix

[woody1]

for those of you trying different methods (lead dipping) and not getting results, keep in mind that to anneal brass, I think it has to be cooled quickly. It is just the opposite of carbon steel, which if yuo cool quickly it becomes brittle hard and let cool slowly it softens it. With brass you cool quickly to soften and cool slowly to harden.

I don't think so. It's my understanding that you cannot harden brass with heat and/or cooling. Brass is only hardened by "working." Hammering, resizing, reshaping all work harden brass. Heating always softens brass no matter what the degree of cooling. The degree and time of heating are what soften brass. The reason(s) for quickly cooling, I believe, are two fold. 1) If the necks are being heated to any degree of redness, long duration of that heat will over soften them and 2) to keep the heat from traveling to areas you do not want annealed such as the lower body of the case and especially the case head. Heat travels fast in brass so quick cooling is necessary. Regards, Woody

[felix]

Perfectly said, Woody. ... felix

[hpdrifter]

I stand corrected and that is why I said "I think".. that musta been the problem.

deleted prior post so someone would not be mislead.

Sorry for misinfo....been cooling brass for years thinkin it did something!!!!!!

[KYRick]

Here is a pretty good read on annealing.
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
Rick