My .433-400 Mountain Mold!

[405 WCF]

I just got my new .433-400 gr mold for my 444 Marlin from Mountain Molds.
As always, he's work is perfect.
Mold drop perfect bullets.

Here is a picture of the 400 gr bullet compared with my 350 gr MM.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/405WCF/008.jpg

With lube and GC.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/405WCF/010-3.jpg

Cast few, loaded with a small amont Norma 202, and went out shooting.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/405WCF/004.jpg

Loaded 30 grs N 202, and got 1168 fps out of the 22 in barrel.
Shot a group at 55 yards.
Got to say, I'm pretty pleased.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/405WCF/006-3.jpg

This is a good start.

[Glen]

What gun are you shooting those out of? What twist rate?

[405 WCF]

My Marlin with 1/20 ballard barrel.
I allso have an old micro-groove 1/38 Marlin, but this bullet is for my ballard only.

[Bullshop]

Better kick up the velocity a bit. The two bottom holes seem to have a mite of wobble to them. You can prolly get that up to bout 2000 fps. 1168 maybe aint quite enough for that long a boolit in your 1/20" 44 barrel.
BIC/BS

[leftiye]

Loverly

[405 WCF]

This load was just a "opening load".
There is no data available for bullets that heavy in the 444 Marlin.
So, I started with a soft load with slow burning powder, just to open with something.

I guess that I will reach my goal, around 1700 fps with this powder.

This bullet has great SD, .305, and as soon as I find my "go to load", I will shot over two chronograps to find out the BC of the bullet.

I guess that, this bullet, cast out of WW, aircooled with a MV of 1700 or just over, will perform perfect on moose and, our brown bears.

I think that it is hard to reach 2000 fps with a 400 gr bullet in a 444 Marlin within safe pressure limits.
But, maby 1800 fps.

[Bullshop]

Ther is load data available on line if you search for ir. I have a customer that has done some research and come up with load data and he even got some 420gn boolits from I believe Beartooth bullets.
BIC/BS

[405 WCF]

I have seen the data on the "loadswap".
The load with Varget is interesiting.
Norma 202 is just a little faster than Varget, so it should be very usable.

A lot of the loads on the "swap" feels a little hot, but comparing Varget loads for the 45-70, ( 400 GR. SPR JFP Hodgdon Varget .458" 2.540" 50.0 1655 18,600 CUP 55.0C 1845 25,000 CUP ) with a Varget load for the 444 Marlin from the loadswap, ( 1771 fps Beartooth Bullets WLN GC 0.432 VARGET 43 grains WLRP Remington ) the "hot feeling" is not so strong anymore.

The 45-70 has a lot moore case capacity, but if the 45-70 can take 55 grs with a 400 gr bullet at 25,000 CUP, the 444 for sure must be within it's pressure max at CIP 3550 BAR or the SAAMI 44,000 CUP, with 43 grs Varget.

My 400 gr bullet is 1.066" long, and Beartooth's 405 gr bullets is 1.080” long
That give me a little more space left in the case.

I will, as usually, work up my loads very carefully, but 1700-1800 fps is not impossible.

[405 WCF]

The case is closed!
I'm pleased!

Before I was leaving to shot the group, I was going to clean the barrel, becuse, I have not cleaned it since I started with this project.
Well, I searched and I searched, but my boresnake was not to be found.
My loading room is a mess.
But, how is a man supposed to keep his room clean when he is working in the woods all week long, and have a fammily, dogs, hunting, loading shooting to take care of in the weekend's?:roll:
Cleaning is a low priority object![smilie=1:

So, I had to shoot this group without ceaning the barrel.
The group is shot at 110 yards, with the roof of my car as support.
Even if one bullet is a little high and to the left, I'm pretty pleased with the result....

41,5 grs Norma 202 was 1670 fps, (1670,029).

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/405WCF/001-7.jpg

[Cap'n Morgan]

The 45-70 has a lot moore case capacity, but if the 45-70 can take 55 grs with a 400 gr bullet at 25,000 CUP, the 444 for sure must be within it's pressure max at CIP 3550 BAR or the SAAMI 44,000 CUP, with 43 grs Varget.

Just for the heck of it I ran your 400/ 41.5grain N202 load through Quickload. The velocity matched within 10 fps and the estimated pressure was only 29250 psi. (With a seating depth of 14mm)

At 100% case capacity (43.3 grain N202) the velocity was 1740 fps and pressure 33375 psi - still within safe limits, but increasing the seating depth with only 1mm (0.04") will raise the pressure with 2200 psi and move it into the red zone!

[405 WCF]

Very interesting Cap'n Morgan!
Yesterday, before I went out shooting, I loaded a round with a 265 gr Hornady bullet infront of a medium charge of Vihtavuori N130, just to have someting that I knew was safe to compare case expansion with.

When I messured the pressure ring on the 400 gr load, there was allmost nothing comared to the standard 265 gr Hornady round.
And, you got the answer......

Thanks for your input!!!!!!!

[Bret4207]

Good for you 405! Looks like a real thumper of a boolit. I was also pleased to see I'm not the only guy in this world to use a grease spot on a scrap box for an aiming point!!! Good ideas go international!

[NSP64]

LMAO! I too have used stains on boxes as aimpoints.:drinks:

Bret4207, I hope you didn't patent this, then I would owe royalties:(

[NSP64]

405WCF Those sure are purty boolits. Good job:Fire:

[405 WCF]

/// I was also pleased to see I'm not the only guy in this world to use a grease spot on a scrap box for an aiming point!!! Good ideas go international///

///LMAO! I too have used stains on boxes as aimpoints.///

Forgot the pencil, so there is no other option than just use what there is to be used!:-D
Must:Fire::Fire::Fire:

And yes! I really like the bullet....

[FN in MT]

Great looking boolit! I'd bet that guy will track straight as an arrow through a Moose from any angle.

FN in MT

[6pt-sika]

We have no moose in Virginia , but I wouldn't mind knocking the fire out of a couple whitetails with both the 350 and 400 grainers :drinks:

[HangFireW8]

I just got my new .433-400 gr mold for my 444 Marlin from Mountain Molds.
As always, he's work is perfect.
Mold drop perfect bullets.


Beautiful! I think I just found my next 444 load.

I just looked at his web page, I have a few questions-

Did you design it yourself, or is this a stock item I can ask for?
How was his lead time?
If you don't mind, about how much $$ are we talking here?

-HF

[hunter64]

Would this bullet be way to heavy for my .444 marlin microgroove rifle? I read somewhere that 300-320gn was about max for the older rifles.

[Buckshot]

..............I think with the older 38" twist rifles that 350grs is about max.

...............Buckshot

[oldfartz]

WOW! Nice bullet design. Did you save the specs on it?

[leftiye]

Thanks for sharing with us WCF. I've got a Handi .444. I expect that it's the same barrel as your 1 in 20 Marlin (it is 1 in 20, and made by Marlin, after all). It offers me hope that the shallow rifling will shoot well. Thanks again. Ted

[405 WCF]

Back home from a week at work.
Sorry that my reply is late, but we dont have acess to any computer were we live in the weeks, so.....

leftiye! You wrote:
///Did you save the specs on it? ///
No, but I have it in my head, and I will try to do a copy and post it here.

HangFireW8! You wrote:
///Did you design it yourself, or is this a stock item I can ask for?
How was his lead time?
If you don't mind, about how much $$ are we talking here?///

The bullet is just a heavier modell of my 350 gr bullet that I designed, with help ofcourse, some years ago.

I got the mold within a mounth after ordering.

I bought a single cavity aluminium mold.
IIRC, I think it was 105 USD shipping included.

[405 WCF]

Todays test was to try my friends XLR, just to compare velocity.
42 grs Norma 202 was 1683 fps out of my 22 " barrel, and 1742 out of the XLR.
BC, if correct, is around .250.

Still no signs of any pressure at all......

[Leadforbrains]

Nice looking boolits. Hey 405 WCF does your mold drop them at .433? Do you size them at all?
If so then what size are you running those and what alloy are you using.
I am looking for something similar to what you are doing for my .444P Outftter.
Thanks in advance for any additional info.

[405 WCF]

Back home from work.
We have just finished the work project we was working with, and now we have a new project close to were I live, so, there will be a lot of time in the evenings to play with bullets and so!!

My molds from MM drop the bullets at .433.
I size them .432.
Most of the time, I cast my bullets out of pure WW.

Here is some data a guy from Sweden calculated with his QuickLoad:

Nitrochemie A/S 0300 97,5 40,0 1840 99,4 42000 4070 1,436

SNPE Vectan SP 10 99,7 42,6 1816 95,8 42000 4183 1,449

PB Clermont PCL 508 99,7 42,7 1815 95,8 42000 4178 1,449

Alliant Reloder-10x 103,7 39,1 1815 99,4 42000 3936 1,457

Hodgdon H335 100,0 43,7 1814 95,7 42000 4221 1,448

SNPE Vectan Sp 7 104,0 44,6 1814 94,1 41703 4227 1,463

Ramshot X-Terminator 97,6 41,8 1813 96,8 42000 4115 1,451

Bofors RP1/NP ~approximation 94,9 39,3 1811 99,8 42000 3868 1,475

Norma 200 94,9 39,3 1811 99,8 42000 3868 1,475

ADI AR 2219 99,3 41,0 1810 96,9 42000 4094 1,447

Ramshot TAC 103,8 44,5 1804 92,5 42000 4235 1,453

Winchester 748 104,0 44,8 1793 92,4 40002 4301 1,474

Accurate 2230 102,8 44,1 1792 93,8 42000 4064 1,465

Somchem S321 104,0 44,8 1787 92,2 39836 4253 1,482

ADI AR 2207 97,0 36,3 1787 100,0 42000 3535 1,464

Accurate 2460 104,0 44,6 1783 93,4 39876 4131 1,491

Hodgdon H322 104,0 40,4 1781 96,3 39779 4036 1,479

Alliant Reloder-12 104,0 42,4 1772 96,4 40522 3963 1,478

Accurate 2015 104,0 40,3 1770 98,5 38929 3869 1,506

Lovex-D0832 104,0 43,9 1770 95,9 39600 4016 1,484

Vihtavuori N530 104,0 41,8 1769 91,9 39765 4092 1,488

Vihtavuori N130 103,9 39,3 1765 99,2 42000 3661 1,474

ADI AR 2210 99,0 40,9 1765 93,6 42000 3913 1,475

Alliant Reloder- 7 95,4 36,9 1763 99,6 42000 3597 1,483

IMR 4198 100,1 35,9 1762 99,7 42000 3523 1,464

Lovex-D0733 100,3 42,8 1762 92,6 42000 3892 1,474

Norma 202 104,0 42,5 1757 94,5 37004 4110 1,521

Accurate 2200 95,5 38,8 1755 94,8 42000 3791 1,478

ADI BM2 96,4 41,1 1755 93,5 42000 3855 1,480

Kazan Sunar 308W 99,8 39,0 1755 98,9 42000 3625 1,481

PB Clermont PCL 507 104,0 43,4 1754 91,0 38262 4114 1,509

Vihtavuori N120 97,0 36,3 1753 100,0 42000 3254 1,473

Lovex-D0731 100,0 42,6 1753 91,6 42000 3860 1,476

Accurate 1680 84,4 36,3 1745 97,8 42000 3604 1,483

Hodgdon Benchmark 104,0 41,0 1742 93,0 41009 3827 1,495

Norma 201 104,0 42,5 1740 91,1 37153 4065 1,541


Well, if we look at the posted data, computer made, (QuickLoad) but still pretty close to the truth, a 400 gr bullet can be launched within safe pressure limits at or around 1800 fps out of a 22 in 444 Marlin barrel.
With a 24 in XLR barrel, the velocity is around 60 fps higher.

New load tested!
This time with Hodgdon H335.

40 grs = 1732 fps
41 grs = 1759 fps
42 grs = 1782 fps.

No pressure signs!!!

Have to cast now, only 3 bullets left.

Must add that I was wong about the BC.
After testing BC again, I found out that it was .230 and not the .250 I wrote earlier.

Calculated ballistic data

Muzzle velocity: 1782 fps
Bullet weight: 402 grs
Ballistic coefficient: .230
Altitude: 1361 ft
Temp: 14 °F
Sight height: 1.5 in
Max range: 150 yd
Increment: 10 yd
Zero range: 100 yd


Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Total drop Flight time
0 yd 1782 fps 2834 ft.lbs -1.5 in 0 in 0 sec
10 yd 1750 fps 2734 ft.lbs -0.79 in 0.06 in 0.017 sec
20 yd 1719 fps 2637 ft.lbs -0.19 in 0.23 in 0.035 sec
30 yd 1688 fps 2544 ft.lbs 0.29 in 0.52 in 0.052 sec
40 yd 1658 fps 2453 ft.lbs 0.65 in 0.94 in 0.07 sec
50 yd 1628 fps 2364 ft.lbs 0.88 in 1.48 in 0.089 sec
60 yd 1598 fps 2279 ft.lbs 0.98 in 2.15 in 0.107 sec
70 yd 1569 fps 2196 ft.lbs 0.95 in 2.95 in 0.126 sec
80 yd 1540 fps 2116 ft.lbs 0.78 in 3.89 in 0.145 sec
90 yd 1511 fps 2038 ft.lbs 0.48 in 4.96 in 0.165 sec
100 yd 1484 fps 1964 ft.lbs 0 in 6.21 in 0.185 sec
110 yd 1456 fps 1893 ft.lbs -0.62 in 7.6 in 0.205 sec
120 yd 1430 fps 1824 ft.lbs -1.41 in 9.16 in 0.226 sec
130 yd 1404 fps 1759 ft.lbs -2.38 in 10.9 in 0.247 sec
140 yd 1379 fps 1697 ft.lbs -3.53 in 12.83 in 0.269 sec
150 yd 1355 fps 1638 ft.lbs -4.87 in 14.93 in 0.291 sec


My last testload was 43 grs Hodgdon H335, and that load was 1818 fps.

Even if QuickLoad says that 43,7 grs is max, I will draw the line here.
43 grs is my max, and will be my "go to" load.

I think that the ballistics is pretty impressive!!!!!!

Calculated ballistic data

Muzzle velocity: 1818 fps
Bullet weight: 402 grs
Ballistic coefficient: .230
Altitude: 1361 ft
Temp: 14 °F
Sight height: 1.5 in
Max range: 150 yd
Increment: 10 yd
Zero range: 100 yd


Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Total drop Flight time
0 yd 1818 fps 2950 ft.lbs -1.5 in 0 in 0 sec
10 yd 1786 fps 2846 ft.lbs -0.81 in 0.05 in 0.017 sec
20 yd 1754 fps 2746 ft.lbs -0.23 in 0.22 in 0.034 sec
30 yd 1723 fps 2649 ft.lbs 0.24 in 0.5 in 0.051 sec
40 yd 1692 fps 2554 ft.lbs 0.59 in 0.9 in 0.069 sec
50 yd 1661 fps 2463 ft.lbs 0.81 in 1.42 in 0.087 sec
60 yd 1631 fps 2375 ft.lbs 0.91 in 2.07 in 0.105 sec
70 yd 1601 fps 2289 ft.lbs 0.88 in 2.84 in 0.124 sec
80 yd 1572 fps 2206 ft.lbs 0.72 in 3.75 in 0.143 sec
90 yd 1543 fps 2125 ft.lbs 0.43 in 4.79 in 0.162 sec
100 yd 1514 fps 2047 ft.lbs 0 in 5.97 in 0.181 sec
110 yd 1487 fps 1973 ft.lbs -0.61 in 7.32 in 0.201 sec
120 yd 1459 fps 1901 ft.lbs -1.35 in 8.81 in 0.221 sec
130 yd 1433 fps 1832 ft.lbs -2.26 in 10.47 in 0.242 sec
140 yd 1407 fps 1767 ft.lbs -3.36 in 12.31 in 0.263 sec
150 yd 1382 fps 1704 ft.lbs -4.63 in 14.34 in 0.285 sec

Here is the drawings:

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/405WCF/IMG_0001-1.jpg

Now, some important stuf!
With this bulletdesign, some rifle's will need some tuning on the inside front of the loading gate.
My old micro-groove Marlin will take the loaded round through the loading gate smooth and nice, and the same is for my fathers ballard Marlin, but my new rifle will need to have the sharp edge inside the front of the loading gate removed.
No big deal, just a few minutes with a dremmel multi tool, but all of you 444 shooters that is interested in this bullet, must know that before ordering a mold of my design.

[Leadforbrains]

Nice work!! Thanks again for all the great information!!!!:drinks:

[Whistler]

Shameless bump of this thread as I actually bought this mould from 405 WCF.

Here are my first tries with it using straight WW and water drop.
The lube is LBT Blue and the GC are made of aluminum using the Freechex III tool.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8440/20120502200431.jpg

However I have never owned a rifle in my entire life, this is going to be great fun in my BFR .444 Marlin! :)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6738/20110417112644.jpg

[Dark Helmet]

So you say today.:kidding: