Is There a....

[Boerrancher]

This may sound like a stupid question, but is there a black powder substitute that is non-corrosive? I like the idea of a case full of powder and lots of noise and smoke. Over the years I have shot lots of the Holy Black in both front stuffers and cartridges. I just hate the clean up of the Holy black or any of the substitutes(which I can't stand).

I remember years ago, some of the Old timers talking about a smokeless power called Pistol Bulk that was supposed to replicate black powder in both bulk and pressure. I never saw a can of it when I was a kid, and assumed it was discontinued. So this is my second question, is Pistol Bulk still made and where do you get it?

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[wiljen]

Both Hodgdon's Triple 7 and Western's Blackhorn 209 claim to be non-corrosive.

[waksupi]

Joe, try grinding up equal parts monkey poop, and bat guano. Add this to your powder. I hear this really smokes, and smells bad.

[Boerrancher]

I looked at Triple Seven and it is Non-corrosive, almost. The claim when you read the fine print is that it is not as corrosive as most other black powder substitutes, and it is corrosive to brass, according to people on other forums that have used it. The good thing about it is that there seems to be little to no residue when it is fired.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[runfiverun]

joe: it seems that the best alternative is the one that is locally available.
they all have good/bad, but what good are they if you can't get them or have to wait 4 weeks?

[Kuato]

Hey Joe, I use 777 in brass shotshells for my old hammerguns. After I fire em, I rinse wuth water & give em a swab down with Ballistol & water (Moose Milk). Works fine for me so far...

[Old Ironsights]

Black is dirty?

Properly sifted Black shoots cleaner than 2400 for me.

OTOH, I REALLY liked Black Mag 3 when it was available, and it looks like it is (might be) again.

http://www.emainehosting.com/blackmag/index.html

Spendy though.

I'll stick to sifted BP.

[leftiye]

OI, Watch that, It'll damage yer credability. Not like we haven't been there.

[Ricochet]

As for DuPont Bulk powder, it was a shotgun powder primarily. There was also a powder named PB, which stood for Porous Base, not Pistol Bulk. It was made with granules of potassium nitrate in it that were later dissolved out with water, leaving holes. Neither is recommended for loading in muzzleloaders, though they were both commonly used in shotshells and blackpowder pistol cartridges.

[Boerrancher]

Thanks for the replies. I guess it is time for a pound of Triple Seven for my cartridges and front stuffer. A friend of mine told me to try it in my muzzle loader, so I guess I will give it a try.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Jim]

Joe,
A few years ago, I shot about 10 pounds of 777 through a Uberti repro of a Sharps in .45-70. I found out quick that the residue is a bit of a pain to clean out of the brass. If you can, take a bucket of water with you and toss the fired brass in the bucket as they come out of the breach. Also, a damp patch cleans the barrel out spic & span.

[Lloyd Smale]

goex makes a substitute now and i played with it in an old army and my inline last year and had real good luck with it. Better accuracy then i had gotten with 777

[cajun shooter]

The Goex sub is made for them by American Powder, all they do is put on a label. Boerrancher, I've read alot of your posting and you are usually in line with what I think. You are "DEAD WRONG" on the cleaning of BP. Thats all I shoot at this time and it cleans easier than some smokeless. I'm a former range officer and the officers had their hands full after a day of shooting Bullseye reloads. Buy you the 16oz can of Ballistol and mix up some moosemilk. I use 2oz to 14oz of water to make a pint. Spray it on the outside and down the barrel. Follow with some patches and you are finished. Very simple and fast. If shooting shotgun buy some Windex with vinegar and clean the same way as above, follow with any good gun oil or straight Ballistol for storage. Try it and then tell me how hard it is. Tales such as this is what keeps alot of people from trying the "HOLY BLACK". If you are miles from any of these things then hot water does the deed. By the way Thank you for your sevice!!

[The Double D]

Word of Warning. If you use T-7 use standard smokless bullet lubes. Black powder lubes don't work well and contribute to the T-7 ring, a ring of fouling that develops in the throat.

This ring is hard to clean out and is gritty. For me is showed up the day ofter shooting.

[Boerrancher]

Cajun Shooter,

The problem I have with the Holy Black is finding it? In years past I have had to make it and my powder making skills are... well it goes bang and pushes out a slug... other than that not to great. I would love to have a pound of the Holy Black to play with that was a real good powder. Years ago the man who taught me how to cast, use to shoot black powder a lot, but his was made in France. He used FFF for his front stuffers and cartridges, and you are correct it cleaned up real easy.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[cajun shooter]

Don't know why you would have trouble finding it. We know that you have a pc and Graf's is in your neck of the woods. The subs can cause alot of problems that is not there when you shoot the real stuff. As far as cleaning cases. Use 2oz of each of the following products. Pine-Sol, Lemon juice, Dawn with Oxy-clean. I put this in a gallon bucket with about 2 1/2 qts of warm water. After the match I throw all my brass in this bucket with lid in the rear of my 3/4 ton. It gets quite a bouncing in the hour trip home. The stink will knock you down when removing the lid. Ha!! Ha!! Rinse at least three times then let dry for tumbling. Ceramic media will work the best but you can tumble with the normal media. Brass will look new.

[The Double D]

If you are willing to order 5LBs at time you can get it drop shipped pretty reasonable from Powder Inc. $19.95 a lb includes HAZMAT and shipping

How far are you from Mexico, MO? That's where Graf's is.

[Boerrancher]

I didn't know Graf's carried it. I am going to go there on Thursday, as I have a VA appointment in Columbia. Looks like I will be picking up a pound of black. To play with, along with some Ballistol. I will just see what kind of Velocities I can get with it.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[GrizzLeeBear]

When I lived back in Iowa (moved to MI 5 years ago) my dad and I used to go to the mountain man rendevous at lake Ozark every year. They had a time share on the lake and their week fell on the week of the rendevous most years. We would always make a slight detour to Mexico and stop at Grafs to pick up a bunch of black powder. I don't know if they are still holding the rendevous at Bagnell dam (I'll have to ask my dad), but you might want to check it out. During the day "modern" folk can visit the camp, watch the shooting and barter with the vendors. Lots of fun.

[357maximum]

There was also a powder named PB, which stood for Porous Base, not Pistol Bulk. It was made with granules of potassium nitrate in it that were later dissolved out with water, leaving holes. .

Still is a PB

http://www.imrpowder.com/pb.html


I use bunches and bunches of it...one of my go to powders in 38 special "everyday" loads. Mine came in (2) 8 and 12lb steel cans from my friends uncles estate.....now you know why I use alot of it. I am down to less than 6 pounds..darn it. Been burning on that powder for a long time.

[cajun shooter]

Boerrancher, When at Graf's see if they have the new Graf's BP that's made for them. The new mix, pictures on the site, are made with alder charcoal. Thats the same as Swiss which is the top powder. Graf's sells The Swiss, store brand and Goex. If shooting a cartridge rifle round , then look for the Goex Cartridge. This forum in the BPCR section has a good posting on it. Don't know about your available funds but the Swiss is 19.95, Goex 14.59 and the Graf's is 11.99. Take Care

[Boz330]

If Grafs is using Alder charcoal that might be worth a try.
For clean up I use the vinegar Windex and water. I bottle of windex in a gallon jug and top up with water. Mike Venturino recommends this and it has worked for me for years. 2 wet patches and 2 dry with Balistol afterward. I do this as soon as I'm done shooting. When I get home I make sure there is no leading and put it away. I sure can't clean any of my smokeless guns that quick.
The Swiss powder does seem to be easier to clean up after, but even the Goex isn't bad with this method.

Bob

[Old Ironsights]

Grafs BP is Schutzen BP.

Both are made by Wano and rebranded as necessary.

[Kuato]

To clean my smokepoles I've used a mix of 1 part rubbing alcohol, 1 part hydrogen peroxide & 1 part Murphy's oil soap. It cleans up fouling in a hurry. I then lube the bore & the rest of the gun with Ballistol (this stuff has a bajillion uses).

[cajun shooter]

Well aware of that as I have about 26 lbs of Graf's. It's imported By Schutzen and made by Wano in Germany. Go to Grafs site and look at the label on the new cans of Grafs. It is stated that it is a new powder made with alder charcoal. That is the same as SWISS.