K Hornet SP/SR ?

[1Shirt]

I have loaded K Hornet with both cast and Jacketed with both small pistol and small rifle primers using H-110, 2400, and Unique. I have seen very little difference between chrono vols and accuracy between the two. Would be interested in hearing the results of some others who have played with the primers and hornets/K-hornets. Am shooting them by the way in a #3 Ruger.
I thank in advance all who respond to this thread.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[leftiye]

But did you see a difference in accuracy? In this case I am assuming that the "two" that you are talking about are std vs. Mag primers (as contrasted with Hornet vs K Hornet, or boolits vs. jacketed projectiles).

[Bullshop]

I have never worked with a K hornet but have developed loads for numerous standard hornets. As a rule I get smaller ES with SP primers. The primer I generally get the most uniform results with is the Fed #100.
Now having that sholder the K hornet is going to burn powder differently than the standard and never having worked with one I just cant say how much differance you may see between a SR or SP primer in the K.
I sure would like to have a chance to try the K version. Still waiting!
BIC/BS

[Larry Gibson]

If there is a difference it depends on the powder and primer being used. With 296 and H110 I have not found much difference between most SR and SP primers in the Hornet. However, with 2400, 4227 and LilGun Id see a difference. I have chronographed 22 Hornet loads out of my own Ruger #3 since '75 and out of several Savages, a M70 and 4 Contender barrels since. For example; in tests with my Ruger #3 a classic load of 11.5 gr of H4227 under a 45 gr Sierra .224 Hornet SP with WSR primer gives 2579 with an ES of 78 fps (10 shot string). The group at 100 yars was 3/4" wide and 2" vertical. Same load with a Fed 100 SP primer gives 2517 fps with an ES of 48 fps. The group is a nice symetrical 1.2". In recent tests with my Savage M40 show the same although not to the extreme the Ruger does. SP primers consistantly give low ES and SDs than the same loads with SR primers. Accuracy at 100 yards is not all that different but at 200 yards the verticle stringing of the higher ES load becomes apparent. Granted 200 yards is about max for most Hornets but my point is it depends on the rifle. Perhaps your #3 isn't as "sensitive' as mine or others. It happens that way.

How do you like your #3? I've had mine since '74 and have loved it from day one.

Larry Gibson

[jhrosier]

Another #3 hornet shooter checking in.
I bought mine new, 'back in the day.'
The only yhing that ever shot well was Winchester 46gr OPE.
I didn't work hard enough to find a handload that would shoot as well as the factory stuff.

I've been thinking lately about picking up a mould and trying to cast for it.

Thanks for the tip on SP primers, Larry.

BTW, I've never seen a K Hornet that shot for beans. Some other folks have obviously had better luck.

Jack

[Bullshop]

Didnt mention that prolly bout 95% of all load development I have done with the hornet has been with boolits so any conclusions I have come to are for boolits not bullets.
I guess that can make a differance too on how much differance the primer makes.
BIC/BS

[dale2242]

Another #3 22 Hornet shooter here. Both my #3 and my 10" Contender shoot better with SP primers. Haven`t tried them in a K hornet. I first heard about using pistol primers in a Hornet in Speers data for their 33gr TNT. Go to Castpics and read Beagles article titled" Cast Bullet in the 22 Hornet". In the addendum he states he got better accuracy with Small Pistol primers.---dale

[1Shirt]

Thanks guys for all the replies. Lots of good info! I tend to think that all rifles are female and have their own personalities as suggested by a couple of responses. Befor I had the #3K'd, the best I could get was about 2" at 100 with Jacketed, and about 3" w/cast. After I had it K'd, 12gr. of H-110 under the 35gr. Hor.V-Max would stay right around an inch or under w/either sp or sr prs, and under 2" w/cast. W/Jacketed shoots into about 2" on a calm day
at 200, and have taken p-dogs at ranged 238yds with Jacketed over 3000 avg. Have an old Weaver K-8 on top of my little #3, and find that very adequate for p-dogs. Just ordered 33TNTs just to try and see if I can possibly improve accuracy at all. 5 gr. of Unique under the little 438, round nose gc lyman (42 gr w/my alloy-checked and lubed) will stay under an inch at 50 all day and if I do my part will sometimes stay under 1/2" for 5. Mine just doesn't seem to like any of the other and heavier weights of cast. So all things, considered, think I will stay with SR primers just for consistancy, and with SP for 38's/357s. I did have a problem with Lil Gun and the K on a hot day in Wy. Shot well in cool a.m. but started blowing primers when the temps in the afternoon went up in to the mid/high 90's. Call Hogdens and asked if Lil Gun was temp sensitive, and they said no. Regardless, I have decided not to load it in my K any more. Yep, do love the little #3, wish I had a couple more of them.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[DLCTEX]

I have a Taurus Raging Hornet pistol that is backing the cartridge out when fired. It is just enough to bind the cylinder so that I have to help it turn to the next round. I was thinking that reaming to K would maybe eliminate thrust enough to cure it. It also isn't as accurate as I'd like, so I wonder if that may help in this area also. What do you think? I am using SP primers (CCI) and 2400 powder. Edit:I didn't mean to hijack the thread, should have started a new one. Moderators, can we move this? DALE

[shooting on a shoestring]

Well I'm tickled to see that I'm not the only one with a #3 Hornet thats taking considerable effort to get under 2 inch groups. I've just bought 1k of Fed match small pistol primers that are slated to be loaded for my #3.

The Ruger #3 Hornet has a 1:16 twist. My uncle's M77 Hornet has 1:14. I love the #3 but really wish it had the 1:14 or even 1:12.

I also have K dies and have been sorely tempted to let mine out. This thread may push me over the edge.

[dale2242]

My #3 likes 40gr Vmax over 11.5 gr H110 seated .010 off the lands. The sad thing is my 10' contender will shoot almost as well as the #3---dale

[schreibwy]

Years ago I picked a #3 and I fought and fought to get it to shoot. A local benchrester had one and finally had it rechambered to 221 to make it shoot. I just didn't want to do that to a clean original rifle.

I picked up a bunch of used 22 hornet brass, loaded ammo, and bullets from an old guy that was sick of fighting his rifle. I thought I would pull the bullets, but what the hey I shot a few. I got nice 3/4 in groups time after time. Thank God he kept good notes. Remington Rifle primers, Sierra 45 grain HP, and 11.3 grains of 4227. I've since used the same recipe with 40 grain VMAX's and get the same groups. The key was that his bullets were seated almost to the lands.

PS. I'd rather shoot my hornet than my 223's any day.

[yondering]

1Shirt, have you tried the 40gr Hornady V-max bullet? Mine is a Ruger #1, which wouldn't do better than 2"x5" groups (vertical stringing) when I got it. I did a little forend tuning and polished the bore with the Tubb's system, but the big improvement was in load development. H110 never gave me reasonable accuracy. A1680 powder was the best for me, although at a few hundred fps than H110, it gives extremely good accuracy in the Hornet, and it's all I shoot now. (I'm on my second jug in 3 years, and I only shoot it in the Hornet.) The 40gr V-max bullet was the other big improvement. Never could get Ballistic Tips or Sierra "hornet" bullets to shoot well.
With A1680, I haven't found a big difference between SR and SP primers, but I use SR. I also seat the bullet out as far as the case will hold it, with a case full of powder. My Hornet is not "K'd", so your load will be a little different, but mine is:

22 Hornet (standard chamber)
Rem nickel plated brass, trimmed and sorted by weight
PMC SR primers
A1680 14.5gr
Hornady 40gr V-Max
C.O.L: 1.965"
Ruger single shot ONLY!!!

This load won the local Sportsman's Warehouse competition for me this summer, with a 3-shot .310" group @ 100 yds. I can post a picture if you want. It doesn't always shoot that well, but it is always capable of sub .500" groups.

[Kraschenbirn]

Hmmmm...does everyone who still owns a Ruger #3 in .22 Hornet belong to this forum? Got mine in '76 or '77. Loaded 12 gr. IMR 4227 with the Sierra 45 gr JSP until a couple years ago when I switched to AA1680. (Was almost out of 4227 and had almost a full pound of 1680 on hand. Tried the 1680 and found it seemed to be a bit more consistent...a little tighter groups with fewer "flyers.") Have used Federal SP primers for Hornet loads as long as I can remember...both for the #3 and a 10" Contender...so don't have a standard for comparison.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Yondering, My #3 shoots the 40 gr VMax over 11.5 gr. H110 very well, but just doesn't seem to be as effective on p-dogs as the 35 grainer over 12 gr of H110.
Have not tried to test when there is any wind factor, but think the 40 grainer would be a mite better in a little wind than the 35 due to plain base vs the BT.
Maybe someone else has better dope on this.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[FN in MT]

Several years ago I had a Kimber in std Hornet and despite my best efforts 2-3 inch groups were the norm. Case stretch was also a problem.......even with very moderate loads.

Kimber talked me into a free rebarel to K-Hornet which DID solve a lot of problems. First and foremost...the case stretch was gone. And accuracy was immediately far better. I was able to get some 1" groups with Fed small pistol primers, Sierra 40 gr slugs and IIRC... H-110? Or possibly Win 296?? think I still have a K-Hornet die set.

Anyway after fighting the accuracy issues I finally traded it in on a .222 Rem and NEVER missed it.

FN in MT

[leftiye]

Dale, The sharper shoulder of the k hornet will be pushed further forward than the tapered plain hornet backs out (and will lock up your gun tighter). As with the 22 Jet, you must degrease both cartridges, and chambers, and then you may also have to reduce loads. Revolters are for straight, or very slightly tapered cartridges.

[Larry Gibson]

I also had vertical stringing of sometimes 2"+ until I removed the barrel band and bedded the forend to the hanger so there is very little contact with the barrel.

The second thing I did that greatly improved accuracy was neck size. Neck sizing by "partial" sizing did not improve accuracy. I had picked up a set of 310 .22H dies and at first used them. Accuracy improved greatly so but the 310 dies really worked the thin case necks. I then got a Redding bushing die and now NS so there is .002" tension on the .224 bullets. I still use the expander die from the 310 set to slightly flair the case mouths. I have not scrunched a case neck since doing that. By neck sizing and bedding the forend Iaccuracy was greatly enhanced. The final step to consistant MOA or better accuracy was the switch to SP primers.

I've recently picked up a 225107 mould and am anxious to try that in my #3. My 225415 always cast a little heavy for the 16" twist of the #3 and accuracy was great at 50 yards but not all that good at 100 yards. 225438 proved a more accurate bullet. Thus I'm hoping the lighter weight 225107 with its FN will give decent accuracy to at least 100 yards for squirrel (the small Columbian Ground squirrels, aka; "picket pins") shooting.

Larry Gibson