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shepherddogs
01-03-2009, 07:50 PM
I just got through casting 358 .38 wadcutters. I wasn't keeping close track of time but I would guess it took about an hour and a half. I still have to come back and size and lube them. Now I enjoy casting, but I realize I'd starve to death trying to make bullets for a living. What kind of equipment and processes do the commercial casters use to speed things along?

Calehedron
01-03-2009, 08:00 PM
Depends...Magma makes 2 machines to cast "faster". The Master Caster is a table top manual machine that can cast 400-800 an hour depending on weight and then there is the $11K Bullet Master Mk 7 that can cast 1000s an hour.

I am fine with 100-200 an hour with my 2 and 4 cavity moulds. Im not in a big hurry and if I cast any faster I would need more hobbies to occupy my time.

Check out www.magmaengineering.com if you wanna check out what most commercial casting houses use.

:castmine:

shepherddogs
01-03-2009, 08:19 PM
I don't have any plans of going into the bullet business, I just wonder how it's done. That site shows what look like 2 cavity molds to go in their machines. How do you get that kind of volume with double cavity molds? Rows of them or what?

Bullshop
01-03-2009, 11:29 PM
I do the same as you.
BIC/BS

mastercast.com
01-04-2009, 12:43 AM
Folks, if no one else will tell you, I will.

The best machines out there are made by Magma Engineering. The casting machines run eight, two cavity molds, at the rate of 2-4,000 bullets an hour depending on the size/weight of the bullets.

In addition, you need a collater to feed bullets to the lube/size machine. Then you have to have a lube/size machine to be fed by the collater. Bullet lube is extra on top of the above. Then you have to purchase boxes, tape to reinforce the boxes, labels, an "Inventory Scale" to count bullets, a large capacity scale to weigh lead and the metals used to alloy your bullet metal, Pay "Workmans Comp Insurance" for your employees, "Unemployment Insurance" for those same employees, State and Federal taxes, and the list goes on. ....for some time!(Like an E.P.A. fee of $300.00 here to deal with lead.)

The "hidden fees" are rather large.

I hope this gives you an idea of what those of us in legitimate business have to pay and why cast bullets from a manufacturer are as high as they are.

We absolutely can not compete with those of you that cast your own.


mike
mike@mastercastbullets.com

MissouriBullet
01-04-2009, 10:42 AM
Folks, if no one else will tell you, I will.

In addition, you need a collater to feed bullets to the lube/size machine. Then you have to have a lube/size machine to be fed by the collater. Bullet lube is extra on top of the above. Then you have to purchase boxes, tape to reinforce the boxes, labels, an "Inventory Scale" to count bullets, a large capacity scale to weigh lead and the metals used to alloy your bullet metal, Pay "Workmans Comp Insurance" for your employees, "Unemployment Insurance" for those same employees, State and Federal taxes, and the list goes on. ....for some time!(Like an E.P.A. fee of $300.00 here to deal with lead.)

We absolutely can not compete with those of you that cast your own.

mike
mike@mastercastbullets.com

Mike, I agree with everything you said, but didn't you leave out another rather large expense - namely - lead? :-)

One other cost item we have encountered is the constant supply of replacement parts we have to buy to keep our Magma Mark 7's operating. Not cheap either! $500 motors, $475.00 Lube Master gearboxes, $98.00 carrier arms, upper/lower sensors, actuating solenoids, replacement sprue cutters, Aero-Dag, Bimba bullet knock cylinders, ouch!!

You're absolutely right about the "hidden costs."

Brad
email: services@missouribullet.com

mooman76
01-04-2009, 11:22 AM
You spend allot of time doing setup and cleanup so it often doesn't pay to do casting for a short period of time. Also is the factor that you are new and as you learn you get faster and better so you get more good bullets in less time.

mastercast.com
01-05-2009, 01:32 AM
I don't think I unserstand what you said.

I am not new. I have been doing casting, loading, reloading, and once ran an ammunition loading business...over 40 years.


Get more bullets in less time. Hmmmmmm...that means more bullets for you at a cheaper price.......right? It does not work that way. When I put money at risk, I expect a profit. The more money that I put at risk, the more profit I expect.

The more machinery that I pay for, the faster I can cast bullets. That does not mean that they get cheaper, it means that my profit goes faster, due to the money invested. Sorry, but that is the way it goes.

Mike
mike@mastercastbullets.com

StrawHat
01-05-2009, 06:04 AM
(Mastercaster, I think mooman was replying to the orinal poster.)

Shepparddogs,

As you get a rythym, you will cast faster. With time comes wisdom and all that...

The other thing to do is to add additional molds into the mix. I used to shoot a lot and would often use three 2 cavity molds in one session. Six cavity molds were not economically possible at that time. When you are casting that many cavities, the pot sure drains fast. I ended up with two ten pound pots and when one was empty I would fill it with ingots and use the other pot. When it emptied, the first was liquid and ...

I never was able to supply my needs when in competition and ended up buying swaged bullets for matches but my cast ones were certainly good enough to get me to the match.

Be careful, soon you'll be buying molds for cartridges you don't reload.

And stay away from the group buy area, those guys are just enablers, trying to get and keep you hooked!

shotman
01-05-2009, 06:45 AM
If I looked at the money and time I put into casting I could buy boolits cheaper. That is not why I do it to save money. I will say I have and use both master and MO boolits both are good . One thing I play with 20 to 25 different styles in 5 or 6 main cal. A commercial set up cant do that because everyone dont want a 311 413 HP

StatelineBullets1
06-07-2016, 11:23 AM
Mike, I agree with everything you said, but didn't you leave out another rather large expense - namely - lead? :-)

One other cost item we have encountered is the constant supply of replacement parts we have to buy to keep our Magma Mark 7's operating. Not cheap either! $500 motors, $475.00 Lube Master gearboxes, $98.00 carrier arms, upper/lower sensors, actuating solenoids, replacement sprue cutters, Aero-Dag, Bimba bullet knock cylinders, ouch!!

You're absolutely right about the "hidden costs."

Brad
email: services@missouribullet.com

Also the DDTC registration at the tune of $2500 per year.

Jim
email: info@statelinebullets.com
Stateline Bullets (https://statelinebullets.com)

Walter Laich
06-07-2016, 01:30 PM
I cast for myself and a friend that does the smelting so I can focus on making bullets--we both win in this situation. I enjoy making something out of liquid metal and love the fact that the mistakes disappear back into the pot.

That being said my hat is off to the commercial casters. I really can't see how they stay in business and turn out such good products. I've known of several in the area that have gone belly up and Houston is not a small town with few shooters looking for bullets.

I'm glad they are out there and hope they do well for as long as they stay in the business

BTW: I'm one of those who owns a couple of molds for calibers I don't have.

jimb16
06-07-2016, 10:27 PM
It surprises me that you commercial casters can make money at all! I think your prices are very reasonable. I notice that you left out one of the costs in your discussion....labor. You guys must be running on small margins.

bilco
06-08-2016, 08:27 AM
Magma Engineering is what you want to look into if you go down this road. It can be done but will require a decent amount of start up cash and time to get your name out there to the community. If you do decide to give it a go I would happily take a few samples for review and spread the word! :)