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Blackwater
01-04-2006, 01:54 AM
Fellas, I'm not a gunsmith by trade, but I did recently take on the job for a friend of cleaning up a couple of guns he was given that laid only 200 yds. from the Gulf shoreline for 6 wks. before they were brought out.

Amazingly, they're both going to clean up very well, believe it or not! If anyone else is doing something similar, I thought I'd pass on a couple of things I've found, and if anyone else has additional info or recommendations, I'd like to hear them. Maybe someone else will benefit from them too. I'm posting this because this type of cleanup is WAY past the routine cleaning we usually do on guns, and maybe what I've found may help someone else out there. A lot of sentimental favorites have been damaged, and maybe this'll help someone salvage at least a few of them?

First thing I found is that plain ol' liquid hand soap (mine's "Soft Soap" brand, I think it is) is the absolute BEST thing for cleaning out the gross rust that has accumulated. Just pour it on full strength without any water to get the worst of it off, and use hot water only too rinse it and the loosened rust off & out. Repeat until the pits don't have any more rust left in them. Works FAR better than the oil and steel wool that many usually use to brush off light flecks that can appear sometimes. A buddy who's familiar with such things says the fats in the soap (NOT detergent, BTW, which is a whole 'nother set of chemistry) help emulsify and lift the rust. Helps penetrate the porous rust, and maybe the lye (or whatever acid's involved) helps break it up. Combination sure does work better than anything I tried, I can tell you that.

The two guns I'm working on were immersed in salt water, so a GOOD and I mean REALLY good scrubbing in hot soapy water after knocking off the gross surface rust came next. This was to (hopefully) dissolve and remove the salts from the metal, in hopes of preventing re-rusting - a VERY important consideration. If you don't get the salt out, they'll just rust back. Water is salt's best solvent, and hot water does it better, quicker and more deeply than any sort of oils you may have on hand.

The remaining metal will have some pitted areas, and these can be a bit tougher to deal with than the softer surface rust that built up. Just use steel wool and/or a wire brush with the same liquid soap (again, NOT detergent) and keep pestering those tough spots until they finally give way. If you don't get them, you're spittin' in the wind, and the rust will just come back again, and eat even deeper pits into the metal.

I didn't have a metal container big enough to boil the big parts in, but boiling in soapy water would likely help, I think? Heat proofing gloves really help when handling hot metal, of course!

After getting the metal clean and de-rusted, there STILL may be some rust left hidden in tiny pores, pits and recesses. This needs to be chemically removed, I think. I haven't gotten this far with mine, yet, but I think I'm going to use some bluing remover for this part of the cleanup. Bluing is nothing more than black rust, basically, and anything that'll remove bluing will do the same for rust. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think muriatic acid (phosphoric acid, isn't it?) can be used for this. I'm not sure if or how much it should be diluted with distilled water, so please someone, let me know about this if you will.

After getting all the rust I could out, I used some Semichrome metal polish, and got some more of it out that didn't show visibly - and it's the stuff that doesn't show up visibly that you're REALLY going to have to fight. After the Semichrome, I used Hoppe's to clean out the Semichrome, then clean swabbed that off, resoaped it and cleaned again down to bare metal. Then I used Marvel Mystery Oil, which is a very fine metal penetrating oil similar to Kroil but cheaper, and let that sit on the still warm metal so it could penetrate into any rust I couldn't see, and into the pores of the good metal. Then wiped that off, and applied Breakfree to preserve/protect the metal. This looks like all I'll need to do to most of the parts of the detail stripped guns, but some will require more cleanup. I think (?) I'm going to de-blue ALL the parts before I get them reblued.

(cont'd below)

Blackwater
01-04-2006, 01:55 AM
(cont'd)

There's been remarkably little really serious damage done to these two guns. They'd laid behind a bed's headboard for those 6 wks, and marks indicate the water level came up to about halfway the length of both the rifle's and shotgun's barrels. Amazingly, after the above, and especially after the Semichrome & subsequent treatment, the rifle's bore looks very nearly pristine! The throat doesn't even look damaged! Can't help but wonder that the air in that room may have been stagnant, and thus this mitigated any rusting that might have happened otherwise? Would like to hear knowledgeable comments and theory about this from y'all.

The worst part of all is the magazine tube of the pump shotgun. It had real scabs of rust, and seems to be pretty badly pitted on the inside. I've used a 12 ga. brush wrapped with steel wool anc chucked in a VSR electric hand drill, and this rust seems to be a LOT tougher than the rest I've dealt with. It also won't go away, mostly because I haven't been able to really remove it, I think. I've used the soap, the Semichrome and STILL it's not really being removed, and I know it'll just come right back. That tube's pretty thin, of course, and I need to get it stopped. Will the bluing remover (or muriatic acid) get it out, likely??? And will amonia work to neutralize the acid residue after using the blue remover or muriatic acid? Any recommendations and insights would be helpful here.

I'm waiting until I'm convinced I've gotten out all the rust before I reblue them. No need to reblue if it's just gonna' re-rust, right?

If it helps anyone, I've found a #6 screw will fit in the 1/8" chuck of a Dremel tool, and you can take a #6x1.25" screw, a couple of #6 washers and a nut, and cut yourself some circles of various sizes from sandpaper, and make a neat polishing tool for this type of thing. Gluing some sandpaper to a backing, like old file folders, gives it more stiffness, and that works better in some places. Lets you apply a bit more pressure too, without the sandpaper tearing out. Just glue a sheet of sandpaper of various sizes to an old file folder. Let it dry with something flat and heavy on it so it'll dry flat. I used plain ol' Elmer's glue for this, which also helps add a little stiffness and strength to the discs. Then take a kid's compas and draw out some various sized circles and cut them out. The point in the center is marked by the compas, and you can get one of those little pliers type hole punches from the office supply store, that punches a small 1/8" hole, and it'll fit your #6 screw to a "T."

Another neat trick is to get some 1/8" steel drill rod from the builder's supply store, and cut it to @ 2.5" lengths. Chuck the short rods in your Dremel, and then get about 1.5" of duct tape, 2" wide, and stick one end to the mandrel you've made, and wrap it evenly around a couple of turns. Leave about 1/2" or so hanging, and cut a piece of sandpaper 2" wide and about 2" long. Put this square of sandpaper on the tag end of that duct tape, putting the tape on the rough face of the sandpaper, and then wrap the sandpaper around and over the underlying layers of duct tape until you've got a good, tight roll around the pin. Now take a piece of the duct tape about 1/4" x about 1.5", and use that to tape down the bottom edge of the wraps you've just made. This will keep the sandpaper from flapping around uncontrollably. Voila'! You've now got a really good tool for polishing stuff like the insides of trigger guards, and other sorta' hard to get to areas. It'll work even better if you take a 1/4" drill rod, 2.5" long, and turn the bottom .5" down to 1/8", but lacking a lathe and time to fiddle with turning the dia. of a larger pin down, I just used the 1/8" drill rod so it'd chuck right up, and it's worked very well. Sure helps speed things up, and gives a very nice finish, too.

Oh yes, and BTW, the wood's been soaked in hot water, too, several times. The factory finish just lifted off and brushed away with a soft toothbrush. I think it's going to clean up well. I'll glass bed the buttstock of the shotgun to the receiver, so the glass will act as a barrier if there's any salt left in it, and it won't re-rust the receiver under the wood. It's going to be fine, I think. The Mauser's stock was split, and I never received it. I'll be fitting and shaping a new piece of wood to it.

Hope some of this helps someone clean up some of the guns damaged by Katrina. Both these rifles will live again, and I think in these two cases, be even better for their drenching. That 16 ga. Ithaca's gonna' be HARD to give back to my buddy, but I'm leaning a LOT from doing all this, and I have aspirations of doing my own work on some projects I have going, so it's pretty good drill for learning the skills for that. Haven't worked on guns too much for nearly 15 years, so it's been a real pleasure to get back into it again. It's also nice to know the work will be restoring a couple of very neat guns that have a lot of sentimental value for a buddy. Can't believe how well it's going, other than that mag tube on the shotgun.

Can someone comment on the bluing remover, and any other ways to get the rust COMPLETELY out of the pits? That's where I need some help here. Would really like to keep the gun's original mag tube with it.

And have you ever noticed how much you can tell about a man from the guns he owns, and how he's maintained them?

jballs918
01-04-2006, 03:17 AM
blackwater,

i found this on a different board i go to. i think it may help you with tuff removal:

To remove the rust, buy a plastic bottle of Muriatic Acid from Home Depot. Have a mixture of Baking soda and water at hand to stop the acid's action. Clean the rusted area very well with acetone. Using and eyedropper, place a drop of acid on the rust pit. The acid will remove and dissolve the active rust in about 60 seconds. Flood the area with the baking soda and water. Dry and oil. The acid will turn the rusted area a dull dark Grey. It will remove the rust and not attack the good steel unless you leave it on the metal too long. I have used this method for years with outstanding results.
Make sure to protect yourself and any gum parts from the acid or it's fumes.


Take heed, this also removes blueing but it kills rust.

Frank46
01-04-2006, 04:45 AM
Blackwater, there is two types of phosphoric acid that you can try. I have used the liquid stuff to remove rust off a tire rim that was made into a stand for my bench grinder. Took the rust off and left the metal grey. Also try naval jelly, the phosphoric acid is one of its ingredients. That also will leave the grey finish you mentioned. Muriatic acid if I remember is used to remove concrete stains from brick work. I never heard of it being used to remove rust. Nasty stuff, fumes and don''t breathe in the fumes. In any event make sure to wear acid resistant gloves and goggles when using either the phosphoric acid or muriatic acid. You can get the gloves at home depot. There was an arms manufacturer that had advertised the use of salt cured walnut for its firearms. But the salt would leech out and cause rust and corrosion of the blued metal. Take care, Frank

wills
01-04-2006, 09:05 AM
I copied this from somewhere, but I do not remember where. If I remembered, I would cite the article properly.

Electrolysis
(Rust removal using electricity)
I know what your thinking. You think I've gone off my nut - removing rust with electricity?! Obviously he's lost his mind... WRONG! Rusting is an electrochemical reaction between the iron in steel and oxygen in the air - they bond quite readily with each other. Here's the trick: you can use electricity to break the bond of Iron Oxide to render it back into its component parts. Sounds neat, huh? Right now, you’re thinking "What's the catch?" Maybe it readily destroys good solid metal if you’re not careful? WRONG! It only attacks rust, not live steel, something that can't be said of other methods, like Naval Jelly. It must use nasty chemicals then, right? WRONG! The only chemical used is plain ole' laundry soda (not soap). Although you can use the much more toxic lye in its place, but if it's available (and it is, Check out Arm and Hammer in the clothes detergent aisle), why would you use it? Then it must use special equipment? WRONG! A plain ole' battery charger is the only piece of equipment you need, along with an electrode - I suggest using rebar.

Let's get down to business...
The Solution: The chemical solution is nothing more than laundry soda and water at a ratio of one teaspoon or so to a gallon of water. Don't bother adding more than is necessary, it doesn't work any better and it just wastes money - the electricity does the work. I recommend using Arm & Hammer laundry soda. The solution doesn't go bad, but after a while it will get real scuzzy from the accumulated detritus in it. Until it gets really skanky, you can keep reusing it; just continue to add water as needed due to evaporation.

The Container: The solution container can be anything as long as it's non conductive and large enough for solution to circulate around the object. Plastic 5 gallon "joint compound" buckets from places like Home depot are cheap, good sized and can be used with a lid to cut down on evaporation when not in use. For bigger objects, things like old (non leaking) kiddy pools or even building a temporary tank using sheet plastic works too. A good idea for long, narrow objects is plastic window boxes without drain holes. The sky's the limit.

The Power Supply: To make this work, you’re going to need a source of DC power. There is no exact formula for figuring power requirements, but rather a bit of simply logic: The more power you supply for a given object, the faster the process works, conversely, the bigger the object the more power you need to work in the same amount of time, and finally the bigger the object for a given amount of power, the longer it will take. That said, a 10 amp battery charger is fine for something that will fit in the 5 gallon pail, if you want to do this on larger objects on a regular basis, I suggest getting one of those hi ampage (200+) chargers available from Northern Tool. They have a 200 amp model for $120 bucks. I wouldn't recommend buying it for this if you’re not going to be doing big stuff regularly.

The Electrode: My suggestion for the electrode is to use common rebar, with the idea of having as much surface area of the electrode in solution as the part being done. Some people are using Stainless Steel bar with the thinking that it lasts a very long time - DON'T DO IT! While it does last, it also releases Chromium into the solution, a very toxic heavy metal. God help you if the local DEEP catches you dumping it. The rebar will get eaten away over time, but it's so cheap as to make it a no brainer.

The Process: It's simple - take the part, attach a wire of some sort (the bigger the better, you may want to attach multiple wires - the wires art to keep the charge leads out of the gunk) attach the lead to the wire and attach the other lead to the electrode. Polarity is important! The electrode must be hooked up to the POSITIVE (red; +) terminal and part connected to the NEGATIVE (black; -) terminal. Also make sure the electrode isn't touching the part, if it is, the rust won't go into solution. Now that you've hooked everything up, go back and double check everything, I'll wait... Done? Everything right? Good, let’s continue. With everything hooked up it's time to flick the switch. Nothing much will happen. You may see fine bubbles coming off the part. Don't worry if you don't. The only way to tell for sure if it's working is to check the meter on the charger. If the juice is flowin', it's working. Now comes the hard part: waiting. This process may take anywhere from an hour or so to a day or more. It all depends on how much rust, how big a part, and how much power you have. The idea is to turn the juice off, take the part out and check it every once in a while. If it looks like it needs more, do it, you can't hurt it. When the scuzz starts developing on the surface of the solution, just skim it off and continue - just make sure you either turn off the juice or use something non conductive. When it's finally done, turn off the power, take out the part, rinse off the solution in tap water and give it a light rub with steel wool if it still has stuff clinging to it. Use your own discretion when doing this. Last: protect the metal right away as now that it's been cleaned of rust at the atomic level, it will rust very quickly.

BeeMan
01-04-2006, 12:07 PM
Removing rust...too much practice here. [smilie=b:

You may want to just use Birchwood Casey Blue and Rust Remover. It is a mixture of acids, mostly phosphoric. Their MSDS gives the details. I stripped a gun with it many years ago for a cold blue job. There was only light rust to clean up and it worked fine.

The electrolytic method works good for heavier rust. If I recall, Waksupi mentioned it here or at Shooters. Heed the last sentence in Will's post. It WILL re-rust if not promptly dried and protected. I cleaned up several old hand tools this way and recommend the electrolysis method. I don't know whether it would affect the bore dimensions or inside finish. Getting the inside of the magazine tube clean might require an internal electrode.

Muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) will remove rust as mentioned. The problem is acid needs to be neutralized when the rust is gone. When you use baking soda you end up with sodium chloride, aka salt. Not exactly what you want, since that's what started the problem. Ammonia will produce a chloride salt too, and its the chlorine part that is bad for corrosion. If you go this route, rinse with lots of hot water then protect immediately.

Phosphoric acid is really a better choice as acids go. It won't leave a potentially corrosive residue.

Regardless of which you use, wear goves and eye protection as already mentioned. None of these agents will improve your vision or skin condition. :roll:

BeeMan

Blackwater
01-04-2006, 11:40 PM
Fellas, this is EXACTLY why I try to hang out here as much as possible. Thanks to you all. Very good info on all counts.

And Frank, you will be amused to know that I whacked my forehead, a'la' "Wow, I could have had a V-8" when I read your naval jelly recommendation. I KNEW I wasn't thinking of something, and guess the old bean got stuck on the blue & rust remover. I used naval jelly once before, but it was nearly 20 years ago, if not more. Thanks.

As to the rinsing, there'll be PLENTY of good, hot water going over it when the de-rusting is completed. I'm really leaning toward trying the electrolytic method.

Cleaning up guns like these is a far cry from routine maintenance, and it's really challenging. That Ithaca's mag tube is the only really bad part I have to work with, but it's proven to be a real challenge. With you guys' help, I think she'll pull through. I really appreciate your help.

Frank46
01-05-2006, 03:38 AM
Blackwater, I found the jugin the garage last night while fooling around (no not that fooling around) so will post the name and other info later today. I've tried thenaval jelly when cleaning up the insides of some of the artillery shells I collect. I slather it on with an old paint brush then use one of those stainless steel scrubbing pads and it cleans most if not all of the powder fouling and green gunk. By the way the phosphoric acid was at one time the ingredient in many of the liquid case cleaning solutions for reloaders. But even though diluted you still had towear gloves as your hands would like they had terminal dermatitus.
Frank

shooter575
01-06-2006, 12:36 AM
Blackwater,Here are a few links that may be of help. Those old gearhead guys got to fight rust all the time.That Molassas thing got my attention.Strange but???
I built one of them flashlight bore thingies. Took a lot of crud out of a junk barrel I was expermenting on. Anyway here they are.


http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolysis.pdf

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/rust_molasses.htm

http://surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp

http://surplusrifle.com/shooting/unblueing/index.asp

Blackwater
01-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Thanks again, and WOW!!! Molasses?!?!?!?!!! That's sure a new one on me. Can't help but wonder about the sulphur content in molasses, and whether it makes some very mild form of sulphuric acid that takes a long time to work? I'm going to have to try this, just to see it work!

Amazing all the things a fella' can learn asking a "dumb" question, ain't it? Also makes me think of the old pioneering days, when a lot of this was learned accidentally, and then put to good use. Folks back then used to pay attention to stuff like this, and there's a lot of useful lore and information that's been lost through the years. Also, it harks back to when I spent nearly a whole day in the Smithsonian just communing with the old origianal muzzleloaders they had on display. Absolutely marvelous creations, and often using such a minimum of tools and supplies. Sure makes a fella' seeking to de-rust a couple of guns feel awfully humble, I can tell you that! Craftsmanship and "trade secrets" have always amazed and intrigued me.

Thanks a bunch for all the info guys. I try to learn at least a little something new every day, and this one's been a bonanza.

Dye
01-06-2006, 02:58 AM
Blackwater

Molasses works,but it takes 3-4 weeks to remove the rust. Now another one .Use baking soda or corn meal as a blasting agent to remove rust, will not pit the metal like sand.

Be Carefull Dye

Frank46
01-06-2006, 04:07 AM
Blackwater, found the jug I mentioned. The product is made by a company called skyco no address, but the ingredients are listed as phosphoric acid and dichromatic acid. hope this helps. If nothing else fall back of naval jelly. Last I looked they make different types. Steel, aluminum. Frank

shooter575
01-06-2006, 02:34 PM
Blackwater

Molasses works,but it takes 3-4 weeks to remove the rust. Now another one .Use baking soda or corn meal as a blasting agent to remove rust, will not pit the metal like sand.

Be Carefull Dye

Baking soda is used by some dentist for teeth cleaning in a water jet. Some panters use crushed corn cob or walnut shells in a sandblaster to remove paint from old redwood or cedar clapboard.Does not destroy the wood. I have been told that some aircraft engine rebuilders use CC and walnut also in a bead blaster cabnet.
Using ideas from other trades and crafts for our craft is part of the fun.

Frank46
01-07-2006, 04:31 AM
Shooter, we had a 6000hp gas turbine at work. Due to an oil leak the blades would loose some of their efficiency. When this happened we would take a 2 pound coffee can, remove the cap from a 2" line on the inlet side of the turbine and place the can under the pipe. The suction would suck up the ground walnut shells and scour the blades of any oil or varnish.
The whole place would smell like walnuts. I have heard of them being used as in place od sandblasting media to get a better finish rather than the rough finish you get when using some other types of media. Frank

Blackwater
01-10-2006, 06:25 AM
Thanks again, guys. I'm really thinking of building that electrolysis setup.

Can anyonetell me if, after polishing out, the bluing salts during rebluing will "kill" any salt or whatever may be in the pores of the metal??? I don't want to get it polished and blued again, only to have it re-rust afterward - ESPECIALLY if it's where it won't show, and won't be attended to until it's awfully late, and more damage is done.

The cleanup is going MUCH better than I'd really anticipated, and on some counts, better than I'd ever have believed possible. I just don't want to have to do this AGAIN, thus my concern for the re-rusting. Will bluing salts displace, kill or otherwise deal with any salt left in the pores of the metal???? Is electrolysis the best way to get all the salt out???? This kind of chemistry stuff is new to me, and I don't want to just guess, or forge ahead and hope for the best.

BeeMan
01-10-2006, 12:41 PM
Blackwater,

The hand tools that I cleaned using electrolysis weren't previously exposed to salt, so I can't say for sure. On the bluing, I used Linstrum's bluing formula on some home made expander die parts.

In both processes, I was unsure and tried scrap metal first. That gave me the confidence to forge ahead. Rigging up the electrolysis should be inexpensive to just try it. You can probably find another piece of steel that saw salt water immersion to 'sacrifice' to experimentation.

BeeMan

Frank46
01-11-2006, 05:16 AM
Beeman, don't the arceologists soak in a special elecrtically charged solution under water items such as cannons, and other relics?. I have heard that if this is not done to get the salts out of the metal then the relic will disintegrate even though its dry due to the presence of the chloride salts. I think that was what they did with the Hunley as I remember seeing it on the tube one night and they had it in a big tank. Frank

Blackwater
01-11-2006, 11:19 PM
Amazing how much collective knowledge is available here, isn't it? The 'net may be filled with 70% B.S. but THIS thread surely doesn't fit THAT bill at ALL!

I think I may try the electrolysis, but the naval jelly will probably be tried first. I may wind up using ALL of this for various parts in my effort to make sure the salt is gone. I'm trying to save the electrolysis for last, since I think it'll probably be the "cleanest cleaning" process available. I figure if I can just get 99.999% of the salt and rust gone, the bluing solution at 300 degrees or maybe more will take care of the rest. My 'smith does really good bluing, and with as much as has been done and WILL be done, I think they're going to fare well. Besides, these guns just seem to have some real mojo in them, too, and THAT means a lot.

Thanks a bunch for all the help, guys. Amazing how much a man can find out on a good forum like this, isn't it?

BeeMan
01-12-2006, 06:25 PM
Frank,

I don't know about marine artifact treatment, but would be interested if anyone finds a reference.

BeeMan

walltube
01-13-2006, 01:02 AM
Wills,Shooter575 & All,

The "stovebolt" electrolosis method works very well.

Much to my chargin I overlooked three moulds to pack away with the other stuff for flight from Katrina. A newly aquired Ideal 311407 that dropped from the cavity at .315WW was one in particular. These moulds were above the sludge level and as such were spared the corrosive attack of the many chemicals from 100,00 households, 3X that from automobiles, boats and so on. Not to mention Murphy Oil Refinining's contributions. All three were given a spray of WD 40 and stored in Zip-Top bags after their last (and mine) :( casting session.

The moulds were immersed in salt water for about 9-10 days before the water receded. I returned late October to salvage whatever remained. Not much, let me tell you!

The moulds were suspended by their equally rusted handles (wood removed) into a stainless steel stockpot containing the baking soda solution. A 12VDC battery charger provided current @ 4amps. The stock pot allows a 360 degree surface to "pull" the rust from all around the mould and attached handles rather than a single electrode in a plastic container. No bothersome repostioning the target surfaces. On occasion I'd set the charger to 50amps just to watch the rust particles swim about the magnetic field with vigor. I don't get out much :) For some reason the b'charger would shut down after 10 min. or so of this excitement. Time for a beer.

If I had access to DC welder I'd crank the amperage to 150 and really get a rush. :D

The moulds were treated for 8-10 hr. de-rusting sessions after which they were examined for progress. A denture brush gives very good service when scrubbing with a dish detregent to remove the "skank". Rust bound screws will release if you give the process time to do its' magic. Be patient. Don't snivel over pitting, rejoice rather the salvaged item. Frosty boolits have character I'm told.

In closing I reccomend the "stove-bolt" method.

Gotta get to bed,

Yours Truly,.............Walltube

Ricochet
01-13-2006, 05:06 PM
Molasses works after it's been fermenting in the open air for a while. It produces organic acids that take the rust off quite effectively. Keep the vat downwind of your house, or you'll get chin music from the little woman.

Tannin boiled out of oak leaves is effective for removing light rust and leaving a blackened surface finish on steel. Lots of trappers have treated their traps this way.

StarMetal
01-13-2006, 05:10 PM
John,

How about boiling traps in walnut shells, those outer shells that stain your finger, not the harder one the nut is inside.

Joe

Scrounger
01-13-2006, 06:17 PM
John,

How about boiling traps in walnut shells, those outer shells that stain your finger, not the harder one the nut is inside.

Joe

We always called them 'hulls'.

Jumptrap
01-13-2006, 08:45 PM
Har! A subject dear to my heart.

If you notice the handle.....I used to be handy at placing steel bracelets on critters..before Cleveland Amory and his lfet wing bunny huggers effectively killed the fur market...god rest his disgusting soul.

I always boiled my traps in walnut hulls. It never removed any of the rust....didn't want it to. A new trap is boiled in lye and then left to mother nature for a week or three. They will take a nice even rust all over...that is what holds the dying. Then, I'd fill the old cast iron wash pot with water and walnust hulls and get it boiling well. The trap chain rings were wired together and the whole les dropped in the pot and submerged. i would do maybe 4 dozen at a time. They were kept boiling for an hour or so and then the fire was left to die. I'd pull the traps the next day when they had cooled. The result was an even flat black all over. The traps would be sterlized free of odors. I then melted paraffin wax in a seperate container and dip each trap until hot then slowlt withdraw it and let it drip. The result was a very thin coat that preserved the finish and made it worked like greased lightning. As for oak leaves....they work but are a mess to fool with. The local streams in the fall run black from all the leaves that fall in them. I often wondered how the fish cope with it.

StarMetal
01-13-2006, 09:09 PM
Jump,

I guess we done the same thing to our traps. The walnut hulls kind of pickled the steel.

Joe

wills
02-08-2006, 09:30 PM
Blackwater, found the jug I mentioned. The product is made by a company called skyco no address, but the ingredients are listed as phosphoric acid and dichromatic acid. hope this helps. If nothing else fall back of naval jelly. Last I looked they make different types. Steel, aluminum. Frank

Might this be it?

http://www.ospho.com/

carpetman
02-08-2006, 09:47 PM
Wills---No the Skyco Ospho's were not the opponents in the super bowl.

Frank46
02-09-2006, 03:12 AM
wills, yes you got it right. My jug matches the one on the web site. Darn that stuff is expensive!!!!!!. I have a half gallon or so left. Frank

Ricochet
02-10-2006, 12:36 AM
Oh yeah, the marine archaeologists' solution they use to soak out the chlorides is sodium sesquicarbonate. All that is, is half sodium carbonate and half sodium bicarbonate.

I've used sodium bicarbonate for electrolysis, but it's harder to get enough dissolved and carrying enough current for the job than with sodium carbonate. Lye will work, but is very caustic. Other alkaline salts like TSP should work too.

Frank46
02-10-2006, 02:43 AM
Ricochet, our oil spill contractors after all the bulk oil was cleaned up used to spray a caustic solution on the steel and concrete. Let it sit overnight and hit it with a hot water pressure washer and no more oil. But you had to flush everything with loads of water afterwards as the metal would rust like crazy. They also use a bromine (spelling) solution during boiler washes. At times we would have to wear full face respirators as the ammonia smell was that bad. Really great stuff. Usually once they did the bromine wash they had to flush out the whole boiler for if they left it in there too long they usually ended up with leaks in the boiler tubes. Course after the wash they had to hydrostatically test the boiler.
If they didn't have leaks before they had them when the test was done. I hated boiler washes. Frank

wills
02-10-2006, 09:14 AM
sodium sesquicarbonate
http://www.chemistrystore.com/sodium_sesquicarbonate.htm

http://www.chemistrystore.com/index.html

lastmanout
02-18-2006, 12:17 PM
I have used the battery charger/ baking soda/water trick many times. Really works great. ALWAYS my first choice on rusty steel and iron. Does not remove anything but the rust (just make sure you have the polarity right) :violin: Acids and abrasives can be used later if needed, but always remove more metal than needed.